CIT transcript: Roosevelt Roberts
(Update: this transcript is now no longer a transcript of the edited interview seen in "National Security Alert", but a transcript of the full version of the interview as shown in "The North Side Flyover", part 2.)
This is a first in a series of transcripts of CIT interviews. It is not an endorsement of CIT or flyover.
Transcripts can help to eliminate confusion about what witnesses literally said. If you find any crucial errors in this transcript, report them with a comment. If justified they'll eventually be corrected. Since blog posts go through a moderation queue the number of updates will be minimized.
You can either link to this blog post or you can copy & paste from it. For copying and pasting there is a HTML version at the bottom that you can use to improve readability.
| Interviewer | Interviewee | Date | Type of interview |
|---|---|---|---|
| Aldo Marquis, Craig Ranke | Roosevelt Roberts | May 2008 | Phone conversation |
Aldo Marquis:
Hello Roosevelt?
Roosevelt Roberts:
Yeah, yeah
Aldo Marquis:
Alright, thanks for taking the call
Roosevelt Roberts:
Okay.
Aldo Marquis:
Yeah, I just... We.. We have been listening to the recordings that, I guess Jennifer Brennan, which is the daughter of one of the other police officers there, what he had uh..I guess.. she had done with you guys. If I can really quick, just uh, if you can just tell your story..
Roosevelt Roberts:
Uh...hold on one second, uh... you caught me driving, uhm..
Aldo Marquis:
Okay, well you know what, let me, let me, let me just ask you a couple of quick questions, there was mainly a couple of specific things.
When you, you had mentioned, right as you hung up the phone, you ran outside..Which parking lot, which dock were you at?
Roosevelt Roberts:
I was in south parking, and I was at the [east?] loading dock, when I ran outside and saw the low flying aircraft above the parking lot.
Aldo Marquis:
Okay, was it a, was it a....a... jet, or was it a... do you remember what kind of plane it was?
Roosevelt Roberts:
Looked like to me at that time....a large aircraft liner, it wasn't a jet, it was a commercial aircraft.
Aldo Marquis:
Okay, did it have propellers or did it have jet engines?
Roosevelt Roberts:
It looked like jet engines at that time
Aldo Marquis:
Jet engines, okay. So, how close were you to running outside, because this seemed to be pretty quick, at least from your account sounded like, it sounded like, literally, the explosion happened and then you ran outside, I mean do you remember how many seconds it was when, you heard the explosion and then saw that plane?
Roosevelt Roberts:
From the sound of the explosion hit till I ran outside....it's a loading dock, and you can run right out to the (inaudible) look out and look off. Then you see the flickering lights inside the area, and then real quick I realize it was some sort of attack and there was going to be a countermeasure with it.
Aldo Marquis:
Right, so how many seconds would you guess?
Roosevelt Roberts:
Maybe...10 seconds tops.
Aldo Marquis:
10 seconds tops?
Roosevelt Roberts:
10 seconds tops.
Aldo Marquis:
So you heard the explosion, and 10 seconds later you were outside and you were able to see that plane?
Roosevelt Roberts:
Correct, you could see that plane just as clear as day, couldn't miss it.
Aldo Marquis:
What color was it, do you remember?
Roosevelt Roberts:
It was....To me at that time it looked like it was silver in color.
Aldo Marquis:
Like silver in color, but you saw it over the south parking lot.
Roosevelt Roberts:
Right, around the lane one area, and it was like banking, just above the light poles like.
Aldo Marquis:
Okay.
Roosevelt Roberts:
Had to been no more than, had to been no more than 50 feet less than a 100 feet.
Aldo Marquis:
Wow. And do you remember how many engines you saw on it?
Roosevelt Roberts:
Couldn't count for the engines..
Aldo Marquis:
And it was.. Was it moving fast?
Roosevelt Roberts:
It was moving extremely fast. It was like maybe you saw that aircraft maybe for like a quick five seconds.
Aldo Marquis:
For a quick five seconds, but you definitely, you saw it over the south parking lot? Over lane one...
Roosevelt Roberts:
In the south, in the south parking lot over lane one.
Aldo Marquis:
Okay. Do you remember in which direction it was headed?
Roosevelt Roberts:
Coming from the 27 side 27 heading, uh... uh east towards DC, coming from that area ..uh.. was the highway. If you would have come out 395 North heading towards the Pentagon you got off in south parking. You were like right there, except 395 went right into 27.
Aldo Marquis:
So from where, from where then headed away from the Pentagon, which direction was it heading?
Roosevelt Roberts:
From the... uh.. can you repeat that one more time please?
Aldo Marquis:
Yeah, when it was heading away from the Pentagon, this .. this second plane, do you remember which direction it was heading?
Roosevelt Roberts:
It was heading.. back across 27, and it looks like, it appeared to me I was in the south, and that plane was heading like uh... south west.. coming out.
Aldo Marquis:
So like banking around, turning back around?
Roosevelt Roberts:
Correct.
Aldo Marquis:
Okay.
Roosevelt Roberts:
Banking, banking around, coming back out turning south west and going straight across.
Aldo Marquis:
Okay, so.. did it look like it went out over the river and kinda turned around?
Roosevelt Roberts:
It looked like it went over on the mall entrance side and turning around because you got the mall there and then where I was was south, and the plane from the direction it was heading it was facing west so it went south west away from the pentagon.
Aldo Marquis:
south west away from the Pentagon, okay, so kinda doing a U-turn in a way?
Roosevelt Roberts:
Right.
Aldo Marquis:
Okay.
Roosevelt Roberts:
Cause it banked out, and it was like u-turning, coming around and coming out, it looked like, [for a brief second?] it looked like it, it, uh....
How am I gonna say this...it missed the wrong target, and it's going like out of the way like back to the airport or something like that.
Aldo Marquis:
Oh like, so it's headed the towards the airport it looked like..
Roosevelt Roberts:
Well no, not heading towards the airport, it's almost like if uh.. if a pilot missed his (inaudible) he'll try to do a banking and coming around because he missed the target, he missed the landing zone.
Aldo Marquis:
Got it, got it. And you're, you're, are you a hundred percent sure it was a jet, an actual jet plane?
Roosevelt Roberts:
Commercial aircraft.
Aldo Marquis:
Commercial aircraft, okay. So there was another... So there was another commercial aircraft in the area as, as the uh... the plane hit then basically is that what you think?
Roosevelt Roberts:
Yes sir, that's not what I think I saw it, it was two aircraft that's for sure.
Aldo Marquis:
Okay.
Craig Ranke:
Now where, where did it seem like it came from?
Roosevelt Roberts:
It seemed like [incomprehensible], by the time I got the dock it was already in the parking lot in lane one, and it was so large, you couldn't miss from seeing it.
Craig Ranke:
Right, but from what direction did it seem like it came from?
Roosevelt Roberts:
It seemed like that it came from uh... it... hold on a second... it seem like it came from uh... south west.. look, the same way it came in or appeared that it came in, almost right where that first plane had uhm... fell into the Pentagon right there, it.. it.. the.. it looked like it came from that direction.
Craig Ranke:
So from the same direction as as as the f..
Aldo Marquis:
From the impact side basically, from that direction?
Roosevelt Roberts:
Everyth....right..exactly.
Aldo Marquis:
Got it. Got it.
Craig Ranke:
Okay.
Aldo Marquis:
Eh..okay, so and.. and.. but would... Now how long would... I mean would you be sure that it was about 10 seconds that it would take you to run from the phone to the outside or would you think it was less than 10 seconds?
Craig Ranke:
Or a little bit more?
Roosevelt Roberts:
It was taking about 10 seconds because prior impact I stepped out the little booth that I was in and the distance between that booth and the edge of that dock is about maybe I don't know like 7 steps away from there.
Aldo Marquis:
Wow.
Roosevelt Roberts:
So ... it was extremely close.
Aldo Marquis:
Got it. Got it.
Craig Ranke:
You were right there.
Aldo Marquis:
You were right there, okay.
Roosevelt Roberts:
Yeah.
Aldo Marquis:
Well uh... Would it.. I'll let you get going there, uhm...Would it be possible to get an e-mail from you so we can even get uh... like you to draw on a map exactly where you saw everything and where you were standing, cause, I'm trying to gauge everything and it's kinda hard without seeing it on an overhead. Would that be possible?
Roosevelt Roberts:
Oh... s[ure].. Yeah that's not a problem. Uhm... my e-mail address?
Aldo Marquis:
Yeah, yeah go ahead.
Roosevelt Roberts:
Is... [censored] dot mil
Aldo Marquis:
Dot mil... okay
Roosevelt Roberts:
And I've uh.. switched from uh.. being a (inaudible) to a special aid, and I work for the anti-terrorism squad protection directorate now.
Aldo Marquis:
Okay, alright excellent. Well uhm.. we definitely would love that.. When is another good time to get in touch with you where we could speak more at length with you?
Roosevelt Roberts:
I'm going to be back in the office no later than two o'clock.
Aldo Marquis:
Okay. We'll try to give you a buzz back later then and I'm assuming this is your cellphone, or it transfers to your cellphone?
Roosevelt Roberts:
Yes sir, it's my cellphone.
Aldo Marquis:
Okay great. Well again, I appreciate the time.. You'll definitely be hearing back from me and I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us, Roosevelt.
Roosevelt Roberts:
Hey, no problem, any time.
Aldo Marquis:
Alright buddy, we'll talk to you soon.
Roosevelt Roberts:
Okay, stay safe.
Aldo Marquis:
You too man, bye bye.
Roosevelt Roberts:
Out.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Hello Roosevelt?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Yeah, yeah
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Alright, thanks for taking the call
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Okay.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Yeah, I just... We.. We have been listening to the recordings that, I guess Jennifer Brennan, which is the daughter of one of the other police officers there, what he had uh..I guess.. she had done with you guys. If I can really quick, just uh, if you can just tell your story..
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Uh...hold on one second, uh... you caught me driving, uhm..
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Okay, well you know what, let me, let me, let me just ask you a couple of quick questions, there was mainly a couple of specific things.
When you, you had mentioned, right as you hung up the phone, you ran outside..Which parking lot, which dock were you at?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
I was in south parking, and I was at the [east?] loading dock, when I ran outside and saw the low flying aircraft above the parking lot.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Okay, was it a, was it a....a... jet, or was it a... do you remember what kind of plane it was?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Looked like to me at that time....a large aircraft liner, it wasn't a jet, it was a commercial aircraft.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Okay, did it have propellers or did it have jet engines?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
It looked like jet engines at that time
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Jet engines, okay. So, how close were you to running outside, because this seemed to be pretty quick, at least from your account sounded like, it sounded like, literally, the explosion happened and then you ran outside, I mean do you remember how many seconds it was when, you heard the explosion and then saw that plane?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
From the sound of the explosion hit till I ran outside....it's a loading dock, and you can run right out to the (inaudible) look out and look off. Then you see the flickering lights inside the area, and then real quick I realize it was some sort of attack and there was going to be a countermeasure with it.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Right, so how many seconds would you guess?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Maybe...10 seconds tops.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
10 seconds tops?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
10 seconds tops.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
So you heard the explosion, and 10 seconds later you were outside and you were able to see that plane?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Correct, you could see that plane just as clear as day, couldn't miss it.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
What color was it, do you remember?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
It was....To me at that time it looked like it was silver in color.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Like silver in color, but you saw it over the south parking lot.
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Right, around the lane one area, and it was like banking, just above the light poles like.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Okay.
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Had to been no more than, had to been no more than 50 feet less than a 100 feet.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Wow. And do you remember how many engines you saw on it?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Couldn't count for the engines..
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
And it was.. Was it moving fast?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
It was moving extremely fast. It was like maybe you saw that aircraft maybe for like a quick five seconds.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
For a quick five seconds, but you definitely, you saw it over the south parking lot? Over lane one...
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
In the south, in the south parking lot over lane one.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Okay. Do you remember in which direction it was headed?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Coming from the 27 side 27 heading, uh... uh east towards DC, coming from that area ..uh.. was the highway. If you would have come out 395 North heading towards the Pentagon you got off in south parking. You were like right there, except 395 went right into 27.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
So from where, from where then headed away from the Pentagon, which direction was it heading?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
From the... uh.. can you repeat that one more time please?
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Yeah, when it was heading away from the Pentagon, this .. this second plane, do you remember which direction it was heading?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
It was heading.. back across 27, and it looks like, it appeared to me I was in the south, and that plane was heading like uh... south west.. coming out.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
So like banking around, turning back around?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Correct.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Okay.
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Banking, banking around, coming back out turning south west and going straight across.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Okay, so.. did it look like it went out over the river and kinda turned around?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
It looked like it went over on the mall entrance side and turning around because you got the mall there and then where I was was south, and the plane from the direction it was heading it was facing west so it went south west away from the pentagon.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
south west away from the Pentagon, okay, so kinda doing a U-turn in a way?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Right.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Okay.
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Cause it banked out, and it was like u-turning, coming around and coming out, it looked like, [for a brief second?] it looked like it, it, uh....
How am I gonna say this...it missed the wrong target, and it's going like out of the way like back to the airport or something like that.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Oh like, so it's headed the towards the airport it looked like..
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Well no, not heading towards the airport, it's almost like if uh.. if a pilot missed his (inaudible) he'll try to do a banking and coming around because he missed the target, he missed the landing zone.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Got it, got it. And you're, you're, are you a hundred percent sure it was a jet, an actual jet plane?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Commercial aircraft.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Commercial aircraft, okay. So there was another... So there was another commercial aircraft in the area as, as the uh... the plane hit then basically is that what you think?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Yes sir, that's not what I think I saw it, it was two aircraft that's for sure.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Okay.
<b>Craig Ranke:</b>
Now where, where did it seem like it came from?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
It seemed like [incomprehensible], by the time I got the dock it was already in the parking lot in lane one, and it was so large, you couldn't miss from seeing it.
<b>Craig Ranke:</b>
Right, but from what direction did it seem like it came from?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
It seemed like that it came from uh... it... hold on a second... it seem like it came from uh... south west.. look, the same way it came in or appeared that it came in, almost right where that first plane had uhm... fell into the Pentagon right there, it.. it.. the.. it looked like it came from that direction.
<b>Craig Ranke:</b>
So from the same direction as as as the f..
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
From the impact side basically, from that direction?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Everyth....right..exactly.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Got it. Got it.
<b>Craig Ranke:</b>
Okay.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Eh..okay, so and.. and.. but would... Now how long would... I mean would you be sure that it was about 10 seconds that it would take you to run from the phone to the outside or would you think it was less than 10 seconds?
<b>Craig Ranke:</b>
Or a little bit more?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
It was taking about 10 seconds because prior impact I stepped out the little booth that I was in and the distance between that booth and the edge of that dock is about maybe I don't know like 7 steps away from there.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Wow.
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
So ... it was extremely close.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Got it. Got it.
<b>Craig Ranke:</b>
You were right there.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
You were right there, okay.
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Yeah.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Well uh... Would it.. I'll let you get going there, uhm...Would it be possible to get an e-mail from you so we can even get uh... like you to draw on a map exactly where you saw everything and where you were standing, cause, I'm trying to gauge everything and it's kinda hard without seeing it on an overhead. Would that be possible?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Oh... s[ure].. Yeah that's not a problem. Uhm... my e-mail address?
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Yeah, yeah go ahead.
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Is... [censored] dot mil
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Dot mil... okay
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
And I've uh.. switched from uh.. being a (inaudible) to a special aid, and I work for the anti-terrorism squad protection directorate now.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Okay, alright excellent. Well uhm.. we definitely would love that.. When is another good time to get in touch with you where we could speak more at length with you?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
I'm going to be back in the office no later than two o'clock.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Okay. We'll try to give you a buzz back later then and I'm assuming this is your cellphone, or it transfers to your cellphone?
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Yes sir, it's my cellphone.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Okay great. Well again, I appreciate the time.. You'll definitely be hearing back from me and I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us, Roosevelt.
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Hey, no problem, any time.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
Alright buddy, we'll talk to you soon.
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Okay, stay safe.
<b>Aldo Marquis:</b>
You too man, bye bye.
<b>Roosevelt Roberts:</b>
Out.
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Thanks for the hard work.
I'm working on a full transcript from Fr. McGraw myself. Did you see the complete witness list from Aldo I posted on the endorsements thread?
Yep
I did, it's quite daunting. There's so many contradictions! If you want my help with the McGraw transcript, let me know, it could be posted on my blog in the same format.. In the short term, I intend to post transcripts of Ed Paik with photos and Terry Morin as well. The idea here is to provide a resource for constructive discussion. If it was up to me, there would be a wiki where the entire 9/11 truth community can work together on transcripts from radio shows, interviews, documentaries and what not!
P.S. The HTML entities at the bottom I generate automatically.
Here's a tip: http://www.string-functions.com/htmlencode.aspx
Here is the audio for Roosevelt Roberts:
If you go to the 51:15 mark you're set to hear the interview for yourself.
Eyewitness testimony 101
Eyewitness testimony is "reliable" when you look at the complete testimony. WTC firefighter, WTC witnesses are also a good example of this.
Eyewitness testimony is unreliable when you take one or two accounts out of context and claim that the information they provide somehow overturns the total body of the testimony. This is popularly known as "cherry picking". Statements 9 years after the event, of course are also unreliable over GENERAL details. Generally speaking, no one in their right mind "forgets" the sight of a plane crashing into a building. That is very easy to remember. What is hard to remember are specific details of the plane itself. That's something that is misunderstood about eyewitness testimony in the 9/11 truth movement. There are "general" and "specific" details and general details are easily remembered.
And before you attack me for this point of view, why don't I quote Ranke who AGREES with me with the concept of corroboration (I just disagree on how he applies it):
“Everyone knows that eyewitness accounts are fallible but as they become corroborated the claim becomes exponentially validated. With enough corroboration, ALL claims can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt."
http://arabesque911.blogspot.com/2007/11/cit-craig-ranke-aldo-marquis-an...
This principle is quite simple. It is FAR more unlikely for 100 people to be wrong than for a single witness to be wrong.
Over 100 accounts of plane impact
0 accounts of a "flyover"
1 confused account of a "U-turn" which resembles the flight path of the C-130
13 contradictory accounts (they don't even provide the same flight path in many cases) describing a "north approach"
A handful of accounts describing a south approach.
Several accounts of the plane hitting the light poles and generator (supporting a south approach)
R. Roberts is a great example. His testimony makes NO SENSE when taken a single statement. He says the "commercial airliner" flew back where it came from which is actually quite absurd and in fact impossible for the plane to accomplish such a maneuver. But using the principle of total analysis instead of CIT's Cherry PickingTM method, we understand that other witness described a similar flight path... with the C-130. Expecting eyewitness to be perfect on a case by case basis is a very flawed and unreliable technique. However, relying on the total body of testimony should be understood as very reliable.
More to support this point of view, if you actually consider what this witness is saying and realize it only makes sense if he was describing the C-130, another point can be made to support this view. And that's the fact that every single witness that CIT has interviewed and everyone else on the record would have supposedly ALSO seen the "commercial airliner" fly a U-turn. This only further suggests he was actually observing the C-130, which others did observe and report and describe its flight path.
One final note. Anyone who claims that a witness describing a U-turn of the plane is a "flyover" is spreading nonsense. I am waiting for the theory to be (correctly) renamed to the U-turn theory.
_______________
A 9/11/2008 Resolution: Start Your Own 9/11 Blog
They should have
asked him more questions about the plane's heading. Focus seems to be on the plane's timing, looks and altitude. I don't think Marquis did a good enough job, and now he won't ever talk again...
Anyways, this transcript is here for all of you, for easy cut & paste or linking purposes. I hope it's useful, more will be forthcoming.
Roberts is 100% positive
that it was a "commercial aircraft" or at least a silver plane with jet engines. Not a C-130 which uses propellers. That's the main point here. Yes, Aldo could have pressed more about exactly to where the plane disappeared, but Roosevelt Roberts' testimony, combined with second hand testimony from Eric Diehle, does present a good, though not conclusive, case for a flyover.
By the way:
Witnesses List Broken Down, No such thing as 104 "impact" witnesses
EDIT: Re Aldo Marquis not digging deeper: the transcript as typed by Snowcrash, and as presented in the video NSA, is the edited-for-conciseness version. As CIT states in their presentation, the interviews have been edited for conciseness and that the long form versions are available to view on their site in other presentations.
The entire phone call with Roosevelt is at the end of The North Side Flyover Part 2.
http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/videos-northsideflyover.html
Well
Sure, that counts as a correction. Damn. Back to the drawing board. Thanks.
Here it is on google video:
Good case for flyover?!
I don't think so.
Fr. McGraw testimony, transcribed to print.
Here is the transcript of Fr. McGraw's testimony. He is an alleged "impact witness" but I'll leave it for the reader to determine whether or not this testimony is credible when compared with the actual photographic / video evidence. I've bolded the sections which indicate to me that McGraw is not a credible witness.
Fr. McGraw: Well, uh I'd been umm a trial attorney for the Justice Department about five and a half years and then had gone into the seminary for four years to study for the priesthood, was ordained in 2001 in June and about this was about three months after my ordination as a priest when I found myself on the way to a graveside service for prayers to say at the graveside at Arlington National Cemetery which is right near the Pentagon and I basically made a turn too early umm on my way to the service at Arlington National and ended up right in front of the Pentagon on Route 27 which goes just right in front of the building...
CIT: And you didn't even know it was the Pentagon.
Fr. McGraw: I didn't even know it was the Pentagon. I mean I've grown up I've grown up in this area ahh but I am basically just never over there besides you can't really tell it's five-sided anyway so I never I didn't even know it was the Pentagon but I was just in traffic.
My main focus was that I was late for this service, and we were stuck in totally stand-still traffic, just sitting dead still on the highway ahh with the rest of the cars, right right in front of the lawn there. I was in the left lane of the highway, of Route 27 umm on the way umm with the Pentagon on my right, so I was on the traffic on the side of traffic closest to the Pentagon and basically without warning there was just the sensation of something coming over the top of us. I didn't see anything in that first that first that first instant but it was just the sense of something coming over the top of our cars maybe about twenty, twenty-five feet.
It seems the plane was so low that it hit a light pole uh that was um just um on the edge of the highway on the far side there um before it came over the highway it clipped this pole which I heard ended up being knocked over and hitting a taxi which was near near my car.
CIT: was it the whole pole or part?
Uhhh that's a good that's a good question. Umm, uh, my recollection is is vague on that point but umm...
CIT: Did you see the light pole get knocked down?
Fr. McGraw: I didn't actually see the light pole go over or anything, no. I believe I later saw you know the evidence of the pole having been knocked over umm and I think that was just after the fact...
CIT: You deduced it.
Fr. McGraw:...piece of the piece of the light pole. I think I may have only recalled seeing the top of the pole so maybe that was the only part of the pole that got knocked off. And it may not have been the entire pole getting knocked down but um there was that I think that may have been the first noise perhaps in that first second that was sensed the noise the clipping the light pole because the next instant was simply I guess the natural reaction, looking over to my right and cause the plane came right over and I did see the plane as it came in. My recollections are simply that it came in somewhat controlled and straight. I mean, my my sense was that it was coming in for a crash landing. I remember when I was about fourteen, umm the Air Florida plane crashed into the 14th Street Bridge right here in Washington, my sophomore year of high school and uh just again a tragic accident just right after take off. And the pilot I guess that was just the best he could do. And so that was my sense although it seemed so strange crash(ing?) just that he'd some some whatever had happened he was just um making that crash landing but just did it right in front of the building and then crashed into the building immediately.
CIT: Did it hit the trailers?
Fr. McGraw: I did not did not see anything like that. I will say that (pause) I have a memory ehm which was you might say revived after the fact of the plane uh bouncing on the lawn before it went into the building. I that was my -- that came to me basically after actually hearing other witnesses uh hearing of other witness testimony. I heard that other witnesses had supported that the plane had bounced you know had hit the ground before it it crashed into the building and then that when I heard that I thought I kind of it sort of umm provoked something or umm I thought yeah that's the image that's the image I remember having. I think I kind of had the image at first and then it sounded so str- seemed kind of strange for it to actually have bounced first in that split second and then it kind of came back to me more after people said that I thought well yeah that is how that is my impression of what happened, that it bounced first onto the uh hit the ground at some point first hit the ground and then went into the building. The memory that was clearest that I had from the beginning which never left me was just after the crash the plane just disa-disappearing I mean into the building basically, just disappearing but then just the the these two out of the top two windows of that side of the Pentagon just this these two huge billows of of like fire coming out...
CIT: Top two windows?
Fr. McGraw: ...the top two windows they were they were I mean the plane went in lower but somehow it seemed like it was those top two windows more or less in the middle of the building that the flame just came billowing out and and at the same time as the explosion as everything those two just those two billows of flame it seemed out of those top two windows was what I recalled.
CIT: Okay and immediately after the plane had crashed you got out of your car? 45 seconds later?
Fr. McGraw: Right, perhaps about 45 seconds later yes my my plane was my car was in the left hand lane and after that initial moment when I seemed to remember the kind of the gasp around me from the other cars no one was going anywhere in the traffic so it was in a sense it was easy enough to just um grab my prayer book for the sick and the dying, my holy oils for anointing the sick and the dying and my purple stole which priests wear when they're administering they're administering to the need- to the sick. And so I got out of the car, and just left it there and walked across the one or two lanes of traffic whatever it was I was in the left hand lane walked across the rest of the traffic umm and just went over the guardrail and just was on the lawn there in the first minute or so I guess.
CIT: And you actually saw it enter the building?
Fr. McGraw: Yes, yes, yes I definitely watched as it went into the building.
JREF to the rescue
There are a lot of conflicting and confusing statements but our good friends at JREF have put it all together.
[right click - view image]
ROFLMAO
Thanks for that. Good form.
I particularly like the zig
I particularly like the zig zag.
911 Truth Ends 911 Wars
Yes, that was great.
Thanks for the laugh. :D
Those JREFers, I'm so envious of their critical thinking skills!
Recap
The Pentagon is the most heavily defended building in the world and could not be hit by a hijacked plane they knew was coming unless Cheney's standing orders were to not shoot it down.
The failure of all concerned to warn anyone of the approaching plane is criminal. Such a warning would have saved lives and therefore the failure to issue a warning is 'depraved indifference' and 'reckless disregard' resulting in loss of life. The failure of the Attorney General to bring charges and prosecute is misprision of felony.
The refusal to release the videos that show what actually happened can only be described as a cover up.
The numerous conflicting witness statements amount to a smokescreen that diverts attention from the above facts.
CIT's interviews of 10 [not 14] witnesses established that the official flight path is a lie.
Unfortunately, Craig and Aldo drove right thru El Dorado but failed to notice the color of the streets because they were wearing wrap around [flyover] dark glasses, and wound up in Pismo Beach. The net result has been a great deal of discord within the Truth community. At the end of the day, they have done more to serve the forces of darkness than the Truth Movement they hoped to serve.
I think discord is far less than you imagine.
As someone who was at the Arlington conference, as well as someone who sees the number of prominent scholars who endorse their work, I can say that there seems to be a huge "discord" between the real world and the several blogs where they are met upon with stringent opposition. During my week long trip to DC I spoke with many truthers, virtually all of whom admired CIT's work.
At the conference I even asked the audience to raise their hand if they were (a) not convinced by CIT's findings and (b) believed a large airplane crashed into the Pentagon. No one raised their hand. You might argue that they were already "the converted," but given how much opposition CIT (and Pilots for Truth) receive on this blog site, you'd think there would have been at least one detractor.
Prominent scholars
Read the endorsements carefully. They support the north flight path but not the flyover.
I was impressed with the presentation too, but that was before I knew they had lied about there being no south side witnesses.
As for the other 4 north side witnesses, 2 are questionable which is probably why they were left out of the video, One is not a north side witness and one was second hand.
Levi Stephens (courier)
"I was driving away from the Pentagon in the South Pentagon lot* when I hear this huge rumble, the ground started shaking … I saw this [plane] come flying over the Navy Annex. It flew over the van [His van? That would make him a south side witness] and I looked back and I saw this huge explosion, black smoke everywhere."
[*CIT left out this part of his statement.They gave the impression that he was at the annex.]
George Aman (ANC)
"I'm sitting here at my desk and I hear like this jet engine. . . . . it keeps getting louder and louder*"
"The plane flies right over the parking lot here."
[*CIT left out this part of his statement. How could he hear the airplane getting louder and louder inside his office when the witnesses outside did not hear it until it was over them?]
Maria De La Cerda is not a north side witness.
"I looked directly up for it, and I also had some tree cover so I wasn't able to see"
She is supposedly a flyover witness but that is a real stretch.
Amy Hart (according to Steve Ross) Could not find quote.
I'm working on a list of south flight path witnesses. As far as I can see, no one has done that yet.
On the other hand:
The light-pole-in-taxi with no damage to the hood is not believable. He was going 40 mph and the light pole was going extremely fast toward the taxi yet the front seat was not damaged. That's absurd. Now Lloyd says he wasn't on the bridge. CIT did establish that he is part of a fraud.
The light poles were staged. The north path merely explains what actually happened.
Oh, and there are 14 N Side Witnesses.
13 first-hand and One second-hand.
Saw plane on north side of Citgo or headed towards north side of Citgo
Sgt William Lagasse
Sgt Chadwick Brooks
Robert Turcios
Levi Stephens
Sean Boger
Ed Paik
William Middleton
Darryl Stafford
Darius Prater
Donald Carter
Amy Hart (according to Steve Ross)
Terry Morin
Maria De La Cerda
George Aman
I'm...
An idiot lihopper. That tells me all I need to know about CIT.
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
I'm saddened by the fact
that somebody like you would be targeted by CIT.
Anyways, the transcript isn't on any side or enemies list. The transcript is not a person, it's a thing. That makes it immune to ad hominem attacks. I encourage both sides to use it productively.
Does anybody have an idea, what was the explosion-source?
In the interview with Roosevelt - there he speaks about an explosion as the reason why, he was running outside.
"From the sound of the explosion hit till I ran outside."
One answer, why Roosevelt said that, is:
"And he was watching TV in the building and contemplating on his parents in New York, before he ran outside after he saw the second plane hit in New York on that TV, and wanted to check outside for any signs of danger to the Pentagon." http://s3.invisionfree.com/CIT/ar/t1560.htm
I cannot imagine, that Roosevelt heart an explosion in TV and was therefore running outside.
This is what Roosevelt Roberts saw
http://s941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/snow__crash/?action=view¤t=foo.gif
This transcript is deprecated, see here for a better version.
Roberts never says he "hears" anything in relation to the explosion, those are Aldo Marquis' leading questions. The description of Roberts' LoC interview is unequivocal: he witnessed AA 77 before impact. What's more, from his testimony, we know he witnessed flight 77 just before impact on a path south of the Citgo gas station.
Want to have some fun? Play National Security Alert and compare it with this transcript. Pay very careful attention. I assure you the transcript is correct. Which means....
Roosevelt Roberts was clear
If you listen to his testimony or read the transcript you will not be able to find any words which show he is a witness to “flyover”. You will not find any words that show he is a witness to “fly away”. He reports a plane over the South parking lot, over the light poles, and says it is heading east. That is toward the Pentagon. He saw two planes. CIT jump from one plane to the other in their questions which confuses him so he asks what they mean and is told the question is about the second plane. He describes this as doing a U-turn and heading south west. This is the C-130. Further on he says that both planes came from the same direction. Think about that. Is that not telling us he saw the approach of both planes? If he saw the approach of two planes from the same direction, and one did a U-turn and flew away and the other didn't fly over and didn't turn away, what did it do?
The 9/12 fly under
Frank Legge said......."If he saw the approach of two planes from the same direction, and one did a U-turn and flew away and the other didn't fly over and didn't turn away, what did it do?"
It flew UNDER the pentagon of course. It had to, because if it flew into the pentagon, then that would be the "official story", and we certainly can't support that. Because then we would be "fake truthers".
The "official story" also claims 9-11 happened on 9-11. But we have documented smoking gun proof that 9-11 happened on 9-12 - at least at the pentagon. As this photo proves by the datestamp......
http://media.nowpublic.net/images//c2/2/c2271f023c0983e7de27f01d0fdc1254.jpg
This destroys the official story that 9-11 happened on 9-11, also exposing how 9-11 happened on 9-12 , thereby showing what a real truther I am and shows what a cracker jack and brave researcher I am as well.
We certainly wouldn't want to admit that planes flew into buildings on 9-11 ------ that would ruin our "truth" movement.
Jimd3100Stein CON
explosions inside the Pentagon -before- the plane-attack
sure, Mister Legge. From your intensive studies of the witness-testimonies - are there hints of explosions inside the pentagon seconds -before- the plane hit the pentagon? Does Mister Roosevelt speak about the sound of an explosion, flickering light as the reason why, he started running outside and witnessing Flight 77 approaching the Pentagon?
There is another strange testimony of Roosevelt:
"As I hang up the phone [audio gap (1:30) ] the plane hit the building. [gap?] It all came at the same time, watching the TV, it was like, it was almost timed for preciseness. So uh, as I hung up the phone and I ran to the center of the dock and I looked up, and I saw another plane flying around the [u]south parking lot... "
http://memory.loc.gov/service/afc/afc2001015/sr/sr348a01.mp3
How should Roosevelt be able to see the plane hitting the building as was watching TV and as he "hang up" the phone? This makes no sense at all. Could not this (plane-hit) be that explosion, from which he reports in the CIT-interview?
WTF?
Do you want to have a debate or what? Because I'll give you generous helping of Pentagon schooling if you tempt me. We know the freaking interview bio, we've all been studying the Pentagon for years. What's your game here? Are you just unaware of who Frank, Jim and me are?
There were no pre-impact explosions at the Pentagon. Who told you that? Not even CIT believes that. That's ancient Honegger/Meyssan nonsense.
What does the LoC interview description say? Do I need to quote it back to you?
Anyways, he's on the phone with "Woody", his boss, and he's watching the TV. Yes. I linked you the exact CNN video fragment Roosevelt saw. the C-130 NEVER, EVER, EVER flew around lane 1 of South Parking, while heading "east, towards DC".
Now, did you follow the link to the CNN footage that shows a replay of UA 175 impacting WTC 2? Is that a plane impacting a building or not?
Roosevelt notices "stuff falling from the ceiling" after running outside. That was the impact associated with the approach of AA 77 Roosevelt Roberts witnessed.
Do you understand a 757 CANNOT make a U-turn as described? The WHOLE POINT of NSA is to remind us all of the limitations on aerodynamic maneuverability of 757's. Do you have double standards?
You're MORE than welcome to take this on with me. After catching you in doing this, and other small incidents I've been seeing, I think it's necessary.
my purpose
It just does not matter, what CIT says, because they are not truthful. It is therefore no argument, that "Not even CIT believes that."
Based on the both witness-accounts of Roosevelt, it sounds unlikely, that he meant the explosion in the TV as the reason why, he was running outside. Furthermore he said, that the approaching plane was silvery and a commercial plan. This could have been Flight 77!
I am looking forward to the reply of Frank Legge.
Look forward all you want
I know more about that specific aspect then he does. There were no pre-impact explosions. There were hundreds if not thousands of witnesses in the area. None of them reported such an incident, because it didn't happen. The camera at the entrance barrier didn't record it, the people who survived didn't mention it (Save perhaps, April Gallop, upon whom I cast a jaundiced eye after that apparent acting audition in Jesse Ventura's Conspiracy Theory), first responder traffic and logs don't show it, witnesses at the Citgo don't mention it. You probably haven't properly traversed the literature or read through all the witnesses statements. If you admit Roberts saw AA 77 approach, then leave it at that. Unfortunately you can't talk to him anymore because CIT tends to abuse and/or harass their witnesses so bad, they usually never want to talk to any other 9/11 researcher again.
Here's a big proponent and oft cited source for the urban legends involving pre-impact explosions: Barbara Honegger, darling of the Pentagon Weird Ideas Department.
http://frustratingfraud.blogspot.com/2006/12/barbara-psychic-munchkin.html
Here's a woman on the phone in the bathroom during 9/11 conferences. LOL! And she's still peddling this rubbish as recently as the Toronto conference. Why? I don't know, it's almost as if it's by tradition, with old timers scratching each others back, fawning over each others worthless books and presentations and celebrating their celebrity status in the conspiracy theory industry, which they maintain by mutual appraisal. That's one explanation.
Let's see, how's this website coming along...? Too boring?
Oh... PS: Seen Warren Stutt's site? How about Frank Legge's site?
Gallop just speaks about one
Gallop just speaks about one explosion! http://911blogger.com/node/22940
Very interesting: http://scienceof911.com.au/pentagon/critique-of-barbara-honegger/
There must have been many witness-accounts of two explosions, but there are not.
You know
that's the worst thing about this whole 9/11 Truth endeavor. And the "debunker" phenomenon. Your average internet "researcher" posts dozens of blatant falsehoods per month, usually unwittingly. It's not just a difference of opinion, but a blatant, demonstrably untrue statement, links to disinformation, manipulated video, stuff quoted out of context, apocryphal sources, distortions, everything under the sun. You name it I've seen it.
Where's the accountability? Why is it that this endless slew of utter nonsense isn't chalked up on some kind of scoreboard so that we all get to see who peddled what false information when? Because you know, otherwise, without accountability, this practice continues, just like the theft of public money, corporate and political corruption continues... no repercussions. I can only wish for a future in which internet researchers rigorously hold each other to account for accuracy in research. Millions of people believing the Pentagon wasn't hit by a plane while it clearly was isn't some kind of amusing joke to me. It's a travesty. And the problem is worst inside the 9/11 "Truth" Movement. Unbelievable.
This picture alone ought to be the end of it.
There it is. The tail imprint people said was never there. I found it, nobody wants to talk about it. (I do remember one reaction by a CIT-head, along the lines of "how dare you") Plane hit the Pentagon. Even though it's the truth, we can't have that because it's the "official story". "Official story", in the Pentagon no-plane-hit-religion is basically a synonym for "heresy". What a hoot. How can the desirability or the consequences of a set of facts ever negotiate their veracity?
I guess this means there is only one way out of this mess, and it can't be one-on-one discussions any longer. It has to be one-on-many.
I don't see
Roosevelt discussing the approach of the C-130 anywhere, but he does discuss its departure. Indeed, Marquis deliberately confuses both Roberts and the audience by rapidly switching back and forth between the two planes, allowing descriptions from one plane to bleed over into the other and vice versa. Marquis, with the unwitting assistance of Roosevelt Roberts, who isn't wise to Aldo's shenanigans, constructs a virtual blend of the two planes, with only the properties he wants to see from either. So AA 77 and the C-130 become one commercial aircraft, approaching and departing the Pentagon. Even somebody who buys that story still has to explain the impossible U-turn, it's a miracle anybody would even buy this nonsense. Then again, we're dealing with guys who work in marketing, and marketing is another word for deception, (Bill Hicks would agree) so they'd probably be able to sell anybody a beachfront property in Nigeria, let alone this crap. The coup de grâce is the contextomy they perform on the original audio recording by dicing it up to remove the reference to the first plane heading east towards DC in the NSA version. There's more, and it gets even more pathetic (ELD vs SLD, etc. etc.), but this is more or less the big picture. This is CIT's "smoking gun" witness: a SoC witness.