For F-15 pilot, 9/11 a Day of What-ifs
If the mods can post this ASAP, some of you may be able to help me with questions. What would you ask TimDuffy, fighter-pilot of 9/11 if he came to your home-county? Suggestions in the comments section please!
source: http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20110624/NEWS/110629636
Almost a decade after the nightmare of 9/11, former fighter pilot Tim Duffy still fields the questions:
What took you so long?
Why didn’t you get to lower Manhattan from your base on Cape Cod in time to at least protect the gashed and ablaze World Trade Center from being struck by a second airliner?
“I get that all the time,” Duffy said Friday during a visit to the Sonoma County aircraft museum that’s become guardian to the retired supersonic F-15 he flew that September morning in 2001.
Trim and prematurely gray at 49, the combat veteran said he’s concluded after 10 years of review and what-ifs that nothing could have been done to substantially change the timeline of one of the nation’s most ghastly and heartbreaking days.
It was 8:19 a.m. when a flight attendant aboard American Airlines Flight 11 furtively reported by cell phone that she believed the Boeing 767 out of Boston had been hijacked. Duffy was at Massachusetts’ Otis Air National Guard base when he was alerted to the apparent hijacking just after 8:30. He and fellow pilot Daniel Nash became airborne in F-15s at 8:52, unaware that Flight 11 had slammed into the North Tower six minutes earlier. The pilots violated military regulations by exceeding Mach 1.4 — about 1,000 miles per hour — but even so arrived over New York City after the hijacked United Airlines Flight 175 slammed into the South Tower at 9:03.
“I wish things could have turned out differently,” Duffy said at a Pacific Coast Air Museum picnic table a few hundred feet from his former fighter. “But I think we did right. I can’t think of anything I would have done differently.”
Another question he’s often asked: Had he arrived over Manhattan in time to intercept the second airliner, would he have shot it down?
Duffy, a resident of greater Boston who’s been married almost 25 years and has five children, said he certainly would have — had he received an order to do so.
But the fact is, he said, that amid all the chaos and uncertainty about what was happening that morning, he had been given no such order. So he could not have shot down Flight 175 even had the opportunity presented itself.
Though his F-15 was armed that morning with six missiles and 940 rounds of 20 millimeter ammunition capable of being cannon-fired at 100 shots per second, Duffy could not have fired without a direct order. He said he’d have tried to harass the hijackers at the controls but he knows they would have continued on to their target.
“You would have seen me right beside that plane as it went into the building, because I didn’t have the authority to shoot,” he said.
It seems to make Duffy’s blood run cold to imagine having arrived over Manhattan in time to have intercepted Flight 175, which carried 51 passengers, nine crewmembers and five hijackers, and to have been given the order to destroy it.
“That would have ruined my life,” Duffy said. “I would have had to do it. I shouldn’t say it would have ruined my life; it would have been a very difficult thing to do, let’s put it that way.”
In 2001, Duffy was a full-time United Airlines pilot and part-time lieutenant colonel with the Air National Guard. Now retired from United, he’s now a colonel with the Guard and senior director of global information-technology outsourcing for Siemens.
He suggested that people who’ve criticized the military since 9/11 for not having arrived on scene in time to destroy Flight 175 might consider the destruction and deaths that would have occurred when the wreckage fell to earth.
Duffy will be at the Pacific Coast Air Museum, off Becker Boulevard on the east side of the Charles M. Schulz-Sonoma County Airport, from noon to 2 p.m. today.
Museum volunteers plan to create an exhibit and 9/11 memorial around his former F-15 and to have it ready for public viewing on Sept. 11.
source: http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20110624/ARTICLES/110629636/1350?p=1&tc=pg
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This post is completely and
(The comment at the top of)* this post is completely and totally irrelevant now.
It would have been nice to not have a 12 hour wait for this to get through the mods - but we are all volunteers, so I get it.
But.....Still.
I will have some video from this event up in a week or so.
*edit
Hey, you tried
This won't be the last time Duffy or Nash will speak in public, so the exercise has value.
To me the problems with the account lie here:
"It was 8:19 a.m. when a flight attendant aboard American Airlines Flight 11 furtively reported by cell phone that she believed the Boeing 767 out of Boston had been hijacked. Duffy was at Massachusetts’ Otis Air National Guard base when he was alerted to the apparent hijacking just after 8:30. He and fellow pilot Daniel Nash became airborne in F-15s at 8:52"
I think the main questions are why did it take 10 minutes for the National Guard to be alerted and why did it take 20 minutes to get airborne? I thought these guys are on alert. Cumulatively this adds up to a 20 minute delay. We wouldn't accept a fire commander saying "well, it took ten minutes to get the truck out of the station." 8:19 to 8:52 is over half an hour. Even if Duffy and Nash didn't know the first tower was hit, SOMEONE DID! And if the flight attendant "furtively" reported anything ," then the plane was definitely in trouble. According to Wiki, at 8:20 (one minute later) the FAA determined #11 was hijacked. Two minutes after Ong's call (8:21) the transponder was shut off. IMO they should have been in the air in 10 minutes, tops. More like 8:41.
Ask Bob Bowman.
I think Duffy has had his own
I think Duffy has had his own questions about the entire day, maybe I'm wrong - but I picked up on some of that today.
"Duff" Reported A "Plume" From The Bottom Of WTC 1
"Duff" reported a "plume" from the bottom of WTC 1 as its collapse began, during the BBC documentary "Clear the Skies". Plumes can be associated with explosive activity.
Surprised that this apparent account of evidence of an explsosion has not receieved more attention, given his credibility as a witness.
He was sure to use the word
He was sure to use the word "imploded" when describing what he saw the towers do. He was also sure to state that he would have thought "they would have fallen over" as opposed to imploding.
I asked if he had heard about the "Architects and Engineers who were saying the same thing." He replied that he saw a documentary on TV years ago that described "how the towers were designed to implode upon a collapse." He further stated he was unaware of WTC 7, and I believed him when he said it.
I was sure to not use Architects and Engineers for 9/11 "Truth" in my sentance, I was asked earlier who I was with and I said I blog at "Nor Cal", again avoiding the word truth. I thinked it helped me be able to stay as long as I did, and he knew where I was coming from anyway - I asked him to sign my brochure. (An ae911truth brochure)
Thanks for all the good comments everyone.
More on
More on Duffy:
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=timothy_duffy
NYT OpEd by Miles Kara and others on "Duffy"
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/opinion/14farmer.html?_r=3&pagewanted=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
I always thought of Miles Kara as JAG attorney against truth, but I do not know if his arguments here have any merit.
Don't focus on NY
I think it would have been impossible for even the second airliner to be intercepted by fighter jets - even with the best will in the world. However the same can not be said for airliners 3 and 4. There was plenty of time for a response to protect Washington and it's inconceivable that Hani Hanjour was able to wander across the Pentagon and attack at 10 foot above the ground when there were defending air bases nearby and most probably vertical-launch ground-to-air missiles available.
Also by switching off the airliners transponders (making them invisible to FAA) they would be highlighted on military radar screens - especially on AWACS (flying radar) and E4B (Flying Command and Control aircraft) - the latter being seen flying directly on the Pentagon shortly after the attack.
Questions
Since this guy is an airline pilot, I'd be asking...
1. 4 flight crews gave up control of their aircraft to terrorists. Would he have?
2. How easy does he consider it to be for a novice to navigate an airliner to its target and hit it at full speed?
Full Speed Impact Via A Steady, 1.5 Mile Long Banked Turn
Impact by UA 175 with WTC 2 via a steady, 1.5 mile long, 20 degree banked turn essentially means the alleged ameteur hijack pilot was precisely on course for impact 1.5 miles before hitting WTC 2, even under crosswind conditions capable of pushing the plane approximately 130 wide of the building's center if not accounted for.
The precision required for this feat is explained in greater detail here:
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/2010/Monaghan_Analysis.pdf
Plenty of questions for Mr. Duffy
There are plenty of questions we could ask Timothy Duffy and partner Daniel Nash about their travel to NYC on the morning of 9/11.
1. Why did it take 22 minutes to launch after the first call to OTIS at 8:30am?
2. Why are there so many different accounts about the timeline, your speed, your destination and your route??
3. Why didn't you go public after the 9/11 Commission reported your activities incorrectly?
Here is the story of Timothy Duffy's travel to NYC on 9/11.
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20110624/NEWS/110629636
Excerpt:
It was 8:19 a.m. when a flight attendant aboard American Airlines Flight 11 furtively reported by cell phone that she believed the Boeing 767 out of Boston had been hijacked. Duffy was at Massachusetts’ Otis Air National Guard base when he was alerted to the apparent hijacking just after 8:30. He and fellow pilot Daniel Nash became airborne in F-15s at 8:52, unaware that Flight 11 had slammed into the North Tower six minutes earlier. The pilots violated military regulations by exceeding Mach 1.4 — about 1,000 miles per hour — but even so arrived over New York City after the hijacked United Airlines Flight 175 slammed into the South Tower at 9:03.
“I wish things could have turned out differently,” Duffy said .... “But I think we did right. I can’t think of anything I would have done differently.”
*************************************************
P4T's new film INTERCEPTED
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21456
showed many new details to me and some contradictions for Timothy Duffy.
At mark 18:20 the film talks about the fighters being launched at 8:52am, telling them to go to lat/lon N41.15 and W73.46, north of NYC. At mark 19:35 they tell the fighter to hold in area W-105 south of Long Island. After WTC2 was struck at 9:03am the fighters are instructed to set up combat air patrol over NYC. (mark 21:00)
The F-16 pilot conveniently leaves the holding pattern delay out of his story.
Question: Could the F-15's have gotten to NYC in 11 minutes?
Surely they could have gotten there if they had launched right after 8:30am. The 22 minute delay on the ground at OTIS guaranteed their inability to intercept UA175.
Once AA11 struck the North tower, why doesn't someone at NEADS or ATC understand that UA175 is behaving the same way and heading to the same destination as AA11?
Here is a timeline showing the activities of Duffy and Nash:
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=timothy_duffy
Here is an interview with Duffy telling about the collapse of the North Tower and their position at Kennedy airport during the South Tower collapse.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/18740499/T8-B22-Filson-Materials-Fdr-Lt-Col-Tim-Duffy-Interview-Typed-Notes-321
Did F-15 Fighters Arrive in NYC at 10:09?
View 911 Eyewitness here:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/911-eyewitness/
see at:
~6:00----WTC2 Collapse (9:59am)
~6:50----Radio 1010 WINS 10am hour tone
~15:20---Fighter jets arrive
This means the fighters don't get to the site until ~10:09am.
Keep putting the pieces of the puzzle together.
More Confirmations
Here are two more confirmations and background for a post WTC2 arrival of the fighter jets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDrOotu7tNQ
From NIST Cumulus Video Database.
Folder: Josh Levine from Davis
Source: Release 14, 911datasets.org
http://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2007/09/navy-jets-that-never-arrived-on-911.html
Excerpt:
Rudy Washington [Giuliani's Deputy Mayor] called Patrick Burns, who was at Norfolk Naval Station for his two-week Naval Reserve obligation. Among other things, he wanted to know about the status of the Navy jets. [5] Obviously, there was no sign of them yet having arrived over New York. Washington communicated with Natter again from City Hall, apparently fairly soon after the first WTC tower collapsed at 9:59 a.m. Natter said he had now received permission from NORAD to send some planes over New York. How long exactly it had taken him to get this permission is unspecified. [6] Also unspecified is what time the Navy jets were launched, and when--if at all--they reached New York. In describing events right after the second attack, Patrick Burns has claimed: "Air cover was already up with Navy jets out of Naval Air Station Oceana." [7] Yet the first fighters to arrive over New York were apparently two F-15s launched by NEADS from Otis Air Force Base. According to the 9/11 Commission Report, these arrived at 9:25 a.m. [8] In fact, the majority of witnesses on the ground have recalled first noticing fighter jets overhead at some time after 10 a.m. [9]
Footnotes:
5] Patrick Burns, "Called to Ground Zero." Notre Dame Magazine, Spring 2007.
[6] Stanley Crouch, "Forgotten Man of 9/11 Played Enormous Role."
http://web.archive.org/web/20050307090610/http://www.nydailynews.com/news/special/story/195289p-168509c.html
[7] Patrick Burns, "Called to Ground Zero."
[8] 9/11 Commission, The 9/11 Commission Report, p. 24.
[9] See "(9:45 a.m.-10:45 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Witnesses First Notice Military Jets Over New York, Later Than Claimed by 9/11 Commission." Complete 9/11 Timeline.
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a945fightersnoticed&scale=0
Giuliani and Fighter Jets
Source: http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=rudolph_%28_rudy_%29_giuliani
According to New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani’s 9/11 Commission testimony in 2004, about one minute before the first WTC tower falls, he is able to reach the White House by phone. Speaking to Chris Henick, deputy political director to President Bush, Giuliani learns the Pentagon has been hit and he asks about fighter cover over New York City. Henick replies, “The jets were dispatched 12 minutes ago and they should be there very shortly, and they should be able to defend you against further attack.” [9/11 Commission, 5/19/2004] If this is true, it means fighters scramble from the Otis base around 9:46 a.m., not at 8:52 a.m., as most other accounts have claimed. While Giuliani’s account may seem wildly off, it is consistent with reports shortly after 9/11. In the first few days, acting Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Richard Myers, and a NORAD spokesman, Marine Corps Major Mike Snyder, claimed no fighters were scrambled anywhere until after the Pentagon was hit. [US Congress, 9/13/2001; Boston Globe, 9/15/2001
As promised:The video
Update: I will make a new post for these videos once I am finished with part 2 of 3.
Part 1:
Col. Tim Duffy describes his day on 9/11. He then starts taking some questions. The film starts a few minutes into his talk...
Part 3:
Col. Tim Duffy answers a couple of questions about speed, if he has read the 9/11 Commission and was he happy with his sections in the Commission Report.