Iranian Official: 9/11 only "Make-Believe"
Make sure you follow the link to the original story and check out the comments. Thanks to casseia for sending this in:
http://rawstory.com/news/2006/9_11_only_make_believe_Iranian_gove_10272006.html
Tehran- An Iranian government official on Friday accused the US of orchestrating the attacks of September 11, 2001, saying New York's World Trade Center towers were actually blown up by a bomb rather than planes hijacked by terrorists. "What we watched on the TVs regarding the slamming of two planes into the New York Twin Towers, was in fact a make-believe scene," Deputy Culture Minister Mohammad-Hadi Homayoun was quoted by state news agency IRNA as saying, in an address to the Iran-Russia Dialogue among Civilizations Conference in Moscow.
"The sky-scrapers were destroyed through bomb explosions and afterwards the massive US media propaganda and the crusade issue began," the minister said, making reference to the controversial remarks by US President George W Bush outlining a "crusade" against terrorism following the September 11 attacks.
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Finally
Now we just need the president of Iran to echo this and we'll finally bring some more international attention to this.
Psst...
Click Here
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
it figures these mecacas
it figures these mecacas would be no planers :)
Make Sure...
Everyone read casseia's version of this.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
Even a Holocaust Denier Won't Blame Zionists & Israel
He could have gone out on a limb, and claimed that the Mossad had this incredible plot whereby 5 dancing Israelis directed a missile into the Pentagon.
Don't be in denial
Of course he knows the mossad planted the explosives. Duh. Do they have to repeat it every time? Everyone knows Israel-firsters played a HUGE role in 911, the major role.
Sorry Mel, Don't Get Angry, Just Take Your Meds...
...after the hangover is over.
in my reading of this:
the way i read it: the comment of the iranian does not suggest that there were no planes...just that there was more at play than planes alone.
that's the way I interpret it too
Obviously planes went into the WTC but the explosives planted by the Mossad brought them down in the planned demolition.
I don't know if this is good
I don't know if this is good that these guys are starting to say this. I mean It doesn't seem really good for truthers at all. I mean, if putin said it... or jacques Chirac or something, that would be great. These clowns are wearing tin foil turbans as far as I'm concerned.
A Mixed Blessing
Yes, the Iranian Minister's statements are a mixed blessing for 9/11 truth.
See my comments at Sheep Dipping 9/11 Truth & the Deliberate Clash of Civilizations and at A Combination Iranian / 911-Perp Coordinated PsyOp???
The above comments are contained in u2r2h's previous blog on the exact same speech, i.e., "Iranian Minister Homayoun: 9/11 plane impacts "a make-believe scene" at www.911blogger.com/node/4103.
you have to commend Raw
you have to commend Raw Story for covering 911 related stories to the extend that they do...you run the risk of being banned if you even mention 911 on certain other left gatekeeping sites.
the negative positive
the negative positive popularity contest regarding post entries is lame.
Paid Trolls Inhabit This Site
It's pretty obvious that paid trolls post here with some regularity. They have no interest in finding the truth as to what happened on 9/11. Sarcasm and ad hominem attacks are their method.
Serious citizens who search for the truth should see these negative posters for who they are.
i'm curious which post in
i'm curious which post in this thread qualifies as a paid troll disinfo dropping?
Ignore them.
Ya, it's gotten worse as the movement has gained ground (easy enough to understand considering our government uses $tens of millions$ of American tax dollars on public relations aka propoganda ~ and when the truth finally breaks, they are in some seriously deep shit). But, it's easy to spot one of these trolls. Either they repeat over and over "prove Bush did it"but never offer any evidence supporting the admin's version, or they post stupid shit like hologram theories, or they use abusive language like "you crazy kookies". Nothing we can do about them spreading their stink around, but what we can do is not make this place more rank by 'feeding' them aka ackowledging them.
One more thing
I think paid trolls are biggest purporters of "The Jews did it" nonsense. They clearly want to turn newbies off, and anti-semitism is bound to meet that goal.
To anyone out there who's not a gov troll who wants to make stupid blanket statements like "the Jews did it" please don't come around anymore. You are not wanted 'round these here parts.
Amen: They are either Paid and/or Paranoid Trolls.
If we keep our focus, we can win !!!
Follow-up
Government trolls aren't welcome either, but I choose to not acknowledge them (as in, I want to explain why I said "everyone but gov trolls"). The people who sit behind these kinds of personas are not even worthy of contempt - they work for the torturer, the murderer, the theif, the liar ... I choose not to acknowledge government paid trolls because they are, at best, a scourge on OUR reality.
We can't ignore Zionist compicity either
There is plenty of means, motive and opportunity there for Israeli/Mossad involvement and we can't be afraid to go there just because we'll be smeared as "Anti-Semitic" for looking at the evidence.
Admittedly, it is tricky.....
amen.
amen.
Praise da Lord, and Pass the Wafers !!!!
It's tricky, but we are up to the task !!!
Agreed that we shouldn't be
Agreed that we shouldn't be afraid of investigating ALL cards that are played in the military industrial game.
But blanket statements about an entire people, (the Jewish button is especially delicate considering all the persecution they have lived through throughout history) are not only inaccurate, but a total turn off.
Iranain 911 Truth
If the Iranians had any real brains...they'd throw millions into promoting 911 Truth. Iran would do well to protect itself with 911Truth, all the while advancing the cause of world peace. This is "no brainer" as Cheney puts it; no water-boarding required.
A dollar on 911 Truth is worth millions in nuclear research.
V
Iran "advancing the cause of world peace"?????
Let's not get overly optimistic. Iran is building its own empire, just like the corrupt neo-cons in control of our government are trying to do. Terror, in today's world, is a by-product of empire-building, used by vying factions of the New World Order to achieve control over the masses.
It would be polly-anna of us to think Iran is a peace-loving friend to 9/11 truth. They are simply using 9/11 truth to build their case for funding violence against Israel and America.
I see no reason to trust the Iranians. Do you?
the more iran supports 911
the more iran supports 911 truth, the less truthful it looks. Nothing could be worse for 911 truth than this. Nothing will make a call for 911 truth go away faster than this. The best place for 911 truth to start is with good old american white folks. We need to take the first and biggest hits on this.
worse yet
if Iran supports such notions that no planes flew into the towers. That's a double whammy. First they say there was no holocaust in WWII and now they infer that no planes were used to hit the towers on 9/11. Not good.
"Make-believe" does NOT mean no planes.
Many people have made the argument that planes hitting the towers was theater, meant to distract from what was going on at ground level (explosions and suspicious human behavior.) I think THIS is what he meant -- not that no planes hit, but that planes hitting was a magician's sleight-of-hand, directing our attention toward one thing, while the significant thing was taking place (mostly) unobserved.
good old american white
good old american white folks huh? jesus christ, im not even gonna bother...........
Why am I SUPPOSED to hate Iran?
I have never been to Iran, I really don't know anything about Iranian culture, and I have never felt threatened by Iran. Yet, according to the mainstream media, I'm supposed to think of Iran as my "enemy". It's amazing the power MSM has over people's paradigms.
If there are any trolls on this site...
they will infiltrate our movement and push us into a sympathetic position towards states such as Iran. Then they will use every effort possible to say 9/11 truth is funded by terrorists.
Just you watch.
Ignore them.
Don't feed the trolls.
We have evidence and science on our side. They have already "infiltrated" the movement, but there still remains an obviousness to their agenda. Trolls are a reality of life, not the definition.
I wasn't saying that I'm
I wasn't saying that I'm sympathetic, only that I have no reason to "hate Iran". Do you?
I dont trust Iran...
I dont want our movement to be associated with Iran. I'm old enough to remember how Iran held Americans hostage back in the late 70's. The Iranians are no friends to truth or justice.
Do I hate the Iranians? Na, i try not to hate anyone.
Come now, what country
Come now, what country hasn't held hostages? Certianly not us Americans *wink*.
Having said that, I understand that in today's climate, having Iran on your side isn't exactly helpful, no it hurts. I'm no troll, and I understand that these kinds of statements do not help American truth-seekers. I'm sure there are a lot of Americans who feel as you do, and I respect that.
I was just musing ...... why am I supposed to think of Iran as my enemy? What have they done to me? - Something I've been wondering since bush started spouting the "axis of evil" bullcrap. It wasn't a comment that was directly related to this article. Thanks for reminding me, though, that in the public realm, things I say may be taken the wrong way. I guess us truth seekers still have a line to tow, lest we be misunderstood. Sad, but understandable.
think back to 1953 coup in
think back to 1953 coup in Iran done by the CIA - then think again of the 1979 revolution... yeah, they're over the top madmen.. but it's understandable considering their country was raped by the West.
Shit, we nuked 2 Japanese cities because of pearl harbor - the Iranians held some hostages and they're suddenly no friends to truth and justice?
i'm not trying to knock ya, but i'm with ya on not hating Iranians.. this whole "holocaust never happened" is BS western propaganda... he acutally called it a Myth - which means that it's a hyped story... not that it didn't actually happen.. that's been twisted to make them look insane, preparing the US public for the upcoming attack (which will probably be sparked by a Tonkin-like event).
also, the majority of
also, the majority of Iranians hate their oppressive, fanatical government... but things need to cool off before they can take their country over and make better in the world..
it's the west, on fire emotionally because of 9/11, that is heating things up... so, whoever is responisble - they're the root of the problem.
Not like us... we're rrrrealy trustworthy ::wink::
This whole Iran / North Korea Nuke thing is utter Bullshit!
Here we are saying: You over there... Iran…Yeah you! This is our neighborhood (the world) and we're the biggest baddest gang in the ‘hood; the Americano’s… We’re SO righteous & badass…we carry guns. But you Iran… you can only carry knives. That's just the way it is… We don't trust you! But you can trust us. Our gang registry the UN says we’re trustworthy.
And of course if another gang should try and mess with you, you can use your knives. It doesn’t matter that just across town there’s another gang: The Israelites… they’ve got guns too. But don’t worry. They’ll only use their knives. Same goes for us, if we get into a fight… we'll leave our guns at home. We only keep our guns to scare other gangs off.
In what other forum does this utter bullshit fly? Who in their right mind would trust a guy who said he wasn't going to use his weapon, but wouldn't give it up AND didn't want you to have an equal weapon?
Do we all believe the Jedi mind trick was going to work on the rest of the world...?
People, we are in seriously DEEP shit here!
Its not the Iranians you or I need to mistrust. It is THEY that need to mistrust us. We're the ones with 4 naval strike groups hovering offshore... Aircraft carriers, amphibious landing craft, nuclear submarines etc. WE are supplying one of their rivals/enemies with nuclear weapons. We have been making the threats… and WE are the ones just across their boarder, who have killed or are responsible for the deaths of 600,000 people (depending on who’s numbers you want to believe). And WE are liberators!!!
Fuck, I’d hate to think of what Iraq would be like if we were conquerors! I guess we’d really have kicked some ass huh?
correct. thanks for the
correct. thanks for the unblinkered sentences.
SomeBigGuy:
At least you will be forced to read the blogs now... with yuor new censorship scheme.
So, maybe next time you do... and give credit where credit is due.
Girlfriend Casseia could have done it too. She reads the blogs.
YOU KNOW IRAN
You say you know Iran and you pull out 1976 - perhaps you should consider what "we" had done to the Iranians, prior.
I too have no reason to hate Iran. They have never done anything to me.
Oh, and the Iranians got 911 Truth from us, not the other way around.
i would say his was promoted
i would say his was promoted to the front page, because unlike yourself, he doesnt take huge leaps of logic to make the story fit his narrow(and hurtful) agenda. where are you from again honey? oh right, you dont wanna say. i forgot.
Actually, this was submitted
Actually, this was submitted as a news article, which I posted, I never even saw your blog entry.
I also gave thanks to the person who submitted this story. This person alerted me to the story, not you, sorry the world does not revolve around you, and we are not all hanging on your every word.
Also, I don't see anything about planes/noplanes in this very short article, just that he felt bombs were in the building. Is there a longer article from this guy somewhere that gets into a planes/noplanes argument? If not, I'd say everyone is wasting their time arguing about it.
Seems to me there are massive leaps to conclusion in this thread so that everyone can try to support their favorite theory. Good strategy you have there, when you get an airplane to the teeth one day compliments of Dick Cheney, you may wish you took this whole thing a little more seriously, rather than wasting all your time bickering.
Somebigguy! - About " "Quotes" " *and* " "Spin" "...
Pssst! Hey you! Yeh, you... Somebigguy!
Thanks for posting info about the IRNA "News Release" as a news item on the front page of 911 Blogger (no matter to whom you gave credit). This is an important story in its own right.
However... You say: "I don't see anything about planes/noplanes in this very short article, just that he felt bombs were in the building..."
UNFORTUNATELY for the so-called no-planers, the very first quote from the Iranian Minister is one classic definition of 9/11 TV & Media Fakery.
The Iranian Minister said: "What we watched on the TVs regarding the slamming of two planes into the New York Twin Towers, was in fact a make-believe scene." [emphasis added]
There is no direct quote from the Iranian Minister in the IRNA press release about bombs in the WTC buildings on 9/11. The IRNA press release and the Raw Story piece only paraphrase the minister to this effect -- but there is no direct quote from the Minister about WTC bombs.
Your Raw Story quote above puts the Raw Story "SPIN" in bold-faced type -- and then underemphasizes the first and ONLY quote of the Iranian Minister contained in the IRNA "News Release" at www.irna.com/en/news/view/line-16/0610274679201251.htm (the sole original source for ALL stories & all blogs).
Thus, you too (but not U2) may have missed this 911-TV-Fakery-type quote.
As indicated at Sheep Dipping 9/11 Truth & the Deliberate Clash of Civilizations and at A Combination Iranian / 911-Perp Coordinated PsyOp???, this Iranian 911 development does not necessarily bode well for so-called "no-planer truth" in particular or for so-called "9/11 truth" in general.
Let me know. Thank you. Best regards,
Thomas J Mattingly
Are you...
On Nico's mailing list? Are you one of the individuals he calls on to disrupt this site?
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
Jon - Guilt by Association?
No, Jon, I'm just pro-Science & pro-Free-Speech -- and 100% pro-Truth (even if Nico or you speak it).
I'm also anti-Ad-Hominem, anti-Name-Calling, anti-Personal-Attack, anti-Bickering, anti-Squabbling, anti-Divide-&-Conquer, and anti-Luddite (or more accurately, anti-Neo-Luddite).
The 9/11 Cover-Up Perps & 9/11 PsyOp Perps derive great satisfaction from the successes that they have achieved here & elsewhere in getting us to fight amongst ourselves. Those on both sides of these issues who wittingly, semi-wittingly, unwittingly or witlessly engage in such 9/11-Perp-encouraged Divide-&-Conquer tactics may want to think twice before they continue to do so.
You probably get more email from Nico than I do, and you probably read it more frequently than I do. However, I get more email from the 9/11 Pro-Planes & 9/11 TV & Media Integrity crowd than I get from the 9/11 No-Big-Boeing & 9/11 TV & Media Fakery crowd. I read such mail and sometimes respond when the writers discuss good science and the best evidence. Nevertheless, as you already well know, I know many of the characters from both sides of these issues.
However, I rarely do anything just because someone asked me to do it. And I certainly don't post here because Nico or the NBB crowd asked me to do so. In fact, in part because I am also sometimes critical of them, some of them have suggested that I not do so.
In addition, Jon, you might not want to take your guilt-by-association ploy too far. After all, Jon, I am talking to you, aren't I?
Are you...
Pro-Destroy 911Blogger.com?
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
Jon - Let's not help the 9/11 Perps, okay?
Jon, I won't give the 9/11 Cover-Up & PsyOp Perps the satisfaction of exchanging ad hominem attacks with you.
Such an exchange might indeed help to undermine the goals & objectives of 911 Blogger.
Well...
I was curious because you seem to be defending those that are Pro-Destroy 911Blogger.com.
This isn't about the debunked "science" behind "TV Fakery."
This is about a concerted effort by Nico & Friends to destroy 911Blogger.com's credibility.
Just thought I'd ask Thomas because I would hate to think this is something you approve of.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
Jon - Let's not help the 9/11 Perps, okay?
Jon, I won't give the 9/11 Cover-Up & PsyOp Perps the satisfaction of exchanging ad hominem attacks with you -- either about other 9/11 researchers or about me.
Such an exchange might indeed help to undermine the goals & objectives of 911 Blogger.
It's really...
A simple question. I'm sorry you can't answer it.
Ok Thomas. I won't bother you anymore.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
Iran... the next Iraq.... I
Iran... the next Iraq.... I really think the leader of Iran is being set up to be the next Saddam.... we will not attack Iran for several years but they want us to know that Iran is a threat..... he's the next big boogeyman.
It's very suspicious.
Just look at all the outlandish things he says... just like Kim Jung Ill launching missiles into nowhere to get attention.
Just the next ploy to bump oil prices up and down at will. Our government needs Iran
Ignore Iran, listen to American public!
The Iranian theocrats who deny the holocaust and call for Israel and US's destruction are hate-mongers and liars who are grievously distorting Islam.
They are just riding the coat-tails of legitimate questioning of the official 9/11 story.
So, ignore what Iran has to say.
BUT LISTEN TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC!!
Question: When it comes to what they knew prior to September 11th, 2001, about possible terrorist attacks against the United States, do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they mostly lying?
Telling the truth 16%
Hiding something 53%
Mostly lying 28%
Not sure 3%
http://blogbartblog.blogspot.com...ruth-oct- 8.html
Well actually, about those soundbytes you keep hearing......
I totally agree with you about keeping our focus and not making any of this about Iran (or any other country for that matter).
I just find it real interesting that so many people here could be so aware of the fact that what our Dear Leaders say isn't always true and that the Main Stream Media isn't what we though it was, yet still be so keen to believe one thing or another so passionately just because we keep seeing sometihing on TV or reading it in the morning paper.
Just so you know, there is serious debate among fact checkers about whether or not the Iranian Leader said all of those awful things we keep hearing over and over. Don't forget that almost every sound byte we hear from abroad gets translated and translations can vary A LOT.
Put some "eperts" on and window-dress a bit and you can sell just about anything. And just so you know, what a few other posters have talked about is true. If you do some impartial research you'll find out that we've been a huge ANTI-democratic force in Iran and that our history of interference, subversion, nation-shaping, hostility and downright bullying of them over the past 30-40 years is huge reason why they're choosing not to back down this time. Check-out what happened after the Iranians kicked British Petroleum out and nationalized their oil industry.
Iran is totally irrelevent to 911 and I'd hate to sidetrack everyone, but here's a great little article that raises a lot of questions:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm
The point is, our media just isn't reliable on it's own. After all of the different times we've been duped into believing one thing or another, let's all promise ourselves that we'll keep our eyes open from now on.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
FAKE QUOTE from Raw Story... (re-quoted above in this blog)
I just noticed that Raw Story includes a FAKE QUOTE about 9/11 by the Iranian Minister (taken from another news agency), which allegedly but falsely directly quotes the Iranian Minister from an Iranian News Agency press release.
The fake quote is: [Non-Quote]- The sky-scrapers were destroyed through bomb explosions and afterwards the massive US media propaganda and the crusade issue began. -[End-Non-Quote.]
There is no indication that the Iranian Minister ever spoke these words, and these words are certainly not a direct quotation spoken by the Iranian Minister (according to the IRNA press release at www.irna.com/en/news/view/line-16/0610274679201251.htm).
Please see my above comment, Somebigguy! - About " "Quotes" " *and* " "Spin" "..., at www.911blogger.com/node/4110#comment-84621 (posted on Saturday at 7:13pm).
The original source for ALL the major stories & ALL the blogs about what the Iranian Minister said is the IRNA Press Release (at www.irna.com/en/news/view/line-16/0610274679201251.htm), which is reprinted below (with emphasis added):
9/11 Incident, a Make-Believe: Official (Moscow, Oct 27, IRNA)
Iran-Russia-Dialogue
An Iranian official here on Friday mocked the 9/11 story presented to the world public opinion by the US.
"What we watched on the TVs regarding slamming of two planes into the New York Twin Towers, was in fact a make-believe scene," said Iran's Deputy Culture and Islamic Guidance Minister and head of Iran's Culture, Art and Communications Research Center Mohammad-Hadi Homayoun in an address to the Iran-Russia Dialogue among Civilizations Conference in Moscow.
[TJM: Please notice that this is NOT a direct quotation, but it was turned into a direct quote by Raw Story & the news service from which Raw Story quotes --->] Homayoun stipulated that the sky-scrappers were destroyed through bomb explosions, adding that after massive media propaganda of the US the crusades began.
Criticizing Hountington's theory of Clashes among Civilizations, Homayoun said the theory was formed to justify clashes and tensions among civilizations and cultures.
Meanwhile, touching on a quarter-a-century chronology of the globalization process, Iran's Presidential advisor Mohammad Nahavandian told the audience for his part that global village is in need of human relations more than satellites and the internet.
"Communications are today only responsible for preparing the technical ground for the relations; and as long as there is no cultural cooperation, there will be clashes among civilizations," announced Nahavandian.
Accusing the US and the Zionist regime of adventurism and of opposing the idea of dialogue among civilizations, Nahavandian said that Iran and Russia are advocates of dialogue among civilizations and cultures.
He called for expansion of cooperation between Tehran and Moscow for promotion of democracy on the international level.
Journalists have been fired for fully & partially faked photos & videos Journalists have also been fired for faking quotes.
We know that what we see on TV and in the media about 9/11 and about the 9/11 Truth Movement is also sometimes or often fake. Some people even go so far as to say that some of what we saw on TV on 9/11 was fake. Imagine that!
I am sure that Somebigguy did not know about the misquote or fake quote at the Raw Story site when he posted the above story. However, when we bring news stories to the attention of the Admins at 911 Blogger, we may want to be more careful about such things -- especially when we know about the original source story for the secondary source story (e.g., Raw Story was actually a tertiary source story).
Such care with story sources may be especially necessary when the fake direct quote from a tertiary source might be used to indirectly undermine assertions on one side of a 9/11 issue.
As indicated at Sheep Dipping 9/11 Truth & the Deliberate Clash of Civilizations and at A Combination Iranian / 911-Perp Coordinated PsyOp???, this Iranian 911 development does not necessarily bode well for 9/11 truth.
Are you saying...
It hasn't even occurred to you that Homayoun probably doesn't speak English very well, and his description that 9/11 was "make believe" was the best way he knew to describe Iran's stance that "September eleven was not a simple operation?"
Or have you forgotten that Ahmadinejad clarified that by stating:
"Could it be planned and executed without coordination with intelligence and security services – or their extensive infiltration? Of course this is just an educated guess.
Why have the various aspects of the attacks been kept secret? Why are we not told who botched their responsibilities? And, why aren’t those responsible and the guilty parties identified and put on trial? All governments have a duty to provide security and peace of mind for their citizens."
What was that you were saying about "spin" Thomas?
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
Jon - Iranian Minister clarified Iranian President's remarks?
Jon:
If I'm not mistaken, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad spoke about 9/11 before the Iranian Minister's recent remarks in Moscow. Therefore, if anything, the Iranian Minister's one & only direct quote about 9/11 may have 'clarified' the Iranian President's remarks about 9/11 (not vice versa).
The Iranian Minister's one and only recent direct quote about 9/11 was: "What we watched on the TVs regarding slamming of two planes into the New York Twin Towers, was in fact a make-believe scene."
Since his only direct quote is a virtual definition of 9/11 TV Fakery, some interpret his remarks to be an endorsement of this position. However, he may not have intended his remarks to mean such a thing.
Most of the Iranians whom I know speak English very well, and they can also translate from Farsi to English very well. The Minister was probably not speaking English in Moscow. The translators at the Islamic Republic News Agency (IRNA) of Iran probably translated the Minister's remarks with more-than-average competence.
If there was "spin" put on the Minister's remarks, then such "spin" was probably applied by IRNA. "Spin" is the job of spokespersons & news agents employed by almost any government.
Regardless, both the Iranian Minister's remarks and the Iranian President's remarks may be a mixed blessing for 9/11 truths and the acceptance thereof.
Thank you for discussing the substance of these issues. --Tom.
I see...
Well, I happen to know for a fact that the Iranian Minister wasn't referring to "TV Fakery", and instead was referring to the official narrative regarding 9/11.
You know how I know that?
Because Nico Haupt's "TV Fakery" is bullshit, and doesn't exist. So he could only have been referring to the official narrative.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
Jon - Let's not help the 9/11 Perps, okay?
Jon, I won't give the 9/11 Cover-Up & PsyOp Perps the satisfaction of exchanging ad hominem attacks with you -- either about other 9/11 researchers or about me.
Such an exchange may indeed help to undermine the goals & objectives of 911 Blogger.
So that's it?
You will continue to defend the theories of those who are determined to destroy the credibility of 911Blogger.com?
By not recognizing the fact that their theories have long been debunked, and instead, always follow up with:
Jon, I won't give the 9/11 Cover-Up & PsyOp Perps the satisfaction of exchanging ad hominem attacks with you -- either about other 9/11 researchers or about me.
Such an exchange may indeed help to undermine the goals & objectives of 911 Blogger.
Means that you are actively defending misinformation/disinformation.
What do you think debunked means? It means that the theory has been proven to be wrong.
Which means that you are also purposefully attempting to destroy the credibility of 911Blogger.com, or you're too dumb to know any better.
Which is it? Why do you defend the theories of those who would like to destroy the credibility of 911Blogger.com?
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
Jon - Let's not help the 9/11 Perps, okay?
Jon, I won't give the 9/11 Cover-Up & PsyOp Perps the satisfaction of exchanging ad hominem attacks with you -- either about other 9/11 researchers or about me.
Such an exchange may indeed help to undermine the goals & objectives of 911 Blogger and the 9/11 Truth Movement.
A Semi-Humorous Note: Nico may be happy to hear that you are now interpreting foreign officials' remarks and determining what is disinformation based on saying the opposite of what Nico says. Jon, this may only feed his ego -- which is probably not a good thing...
"saying the opposite of what Nico says"
Mean's you're probably telling the truth, and not the lie.
I can live with that.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
BTW Thomas...
Since you refuse to answer my question, from this point on, I'm just going to assume that you are part of Nico's little band of "No Brainers." That means I think you are apart of a group of individuals who are purposefully trying to destroy the credibility of 911Blogger.com.
Just an FYI.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
Jon - Assume?
Jon, you say: "...I'm just going to assume that you are part of Nico's little band of 'No Brainers.'" [emphasis added]
My science professors taught me that to ASS-U-ME anything may be to make an Ass of U and Me. Therefore, I rarely do.
As former Professor Steven Jones might say, let the Scientific Method be your guide -- even about something as seemingly-outlandish as 9/11 TV Fakery... or even about something as seemingly-settled as whether or not I have a brain cell or two.
If you think that use of the Scientific Method on 9/11 evidence would destroy 911 Blogger and the 9/11 Truth Movement, then I assume that you may want to tell DZ & Steve Jones about this, right?
What do you think of the PDF Jon linked to?
Have you read the paper that argues against No Planes and TV Fakery?
You talk a big game about scientific method: are you willing to believe that some theories about the events of 9/11 are just bullshit? Because the scientific method calls for DISCARDING theories when they are proven completely inadequate to explain events/ data.
The scientific method is what is going to "save" 911blogger from some really obnoxious disinfo artists. How's that work for ya?
Casseia - The 9/11 No Big Boeings Debate Begins in Earnest?
Yes, Casseia, I have been reading Eric and/or Brian Salter's Pro-Planes articles for a long time. The version of the article now on-line in Steve Jones' Journal of 9/11 Studies has been on-line at another site in similar form for a month or more.
Dr. Morgan Reynolds & MIT engineering graduate student Rick Raijter have now also published a scientific article about the 9/11 No Big Boeings issue: "Exploding the Airliner Crash Myth" at http://nomoregames.net/index.php?page=911&subpage1=exploding_the_airliner_crash_myth.
For those who are interested in a scientific & semi-rational discussion about these issues, I would suggest that you read both articles.
As you may or may not know, I have been involved in mediating the disputes between Dr. Steve Jones & Dr. Jim Fetzer and Dr. Morgan Reynolds & Dr. Judy Wood since before Wood & Reynolds resigned from Scholars for 9/11 Truth. During this time and until the present, I have gotten to know all four (4) scientists to varying degrees.
Wood's & Reynolds' resignations from ST911 had virtually nothing to do with the 9/11 No Big Boeings issues. But Wood's & Reynolds' differences with Jones & Fetzer did have much to do with science -- and the scientific differences & approaches amongst four (4) different but knowledgeable scientists.
In each of the scientific fields, knowledgeable scientists disagree with each other. That's what Peer Review should be and often is all about -- not the exclusion of scientific ideas based on the whim of a vocal minority of scientists -- much less a vocal minority of non-scientists.
You ask whether 9/11 hypotheses should be discarded "when they are proven completely inadequate to explain [9/11] events/data." Of course, the answer is yes.
However, after reading the Salter Pro-Planes article and the Reynolds/Raijter No Big Boeings article, reasonable & knowledgeable scientists whom I know still have their scholarly & scientific disagreements about the issues.
Given the semi-ambiguous remarks of the Iranian Minister in Moscow, the 9/11 TV Fakery & NBB issues may even become hot mainstream news. If the Iranian Minister really means what he said, then would Jon Gold or you agree to appear on Al-Jazeerah to debate the Iranian Minister on the scientific merits of the 9/11 TV Fakery issue?
Do Jon Gold, John Albanese, DBLS, you, and few others at 9/11 Blogger think that these issues are scientifically settled? Do you want to wait for the ink to dry on Morgan & Rick's October 27th NBB article? Do you want to wait for a clarification of the Iranian Minister's semi-ambiguous remarks?
Will you allow any real scientists to discuss & debate these issues before you act as judge, jury & executioner in the virtual free-speech death of these issues at 911 Blogger? Or are you vocal & influential enough at 911 Blogger to get DZ et al to throw the 9/11 No Big Boeings Baby (NBBB) out with Nico's bathwater?
What you may not realize is that the tactics of some of the so-called Pro-Planers are similar to the Divide-&-Conquer tactics that were sometimes used during in the JFK Cover-Up and in other cover-ups to exclude CONSIDERATION of promising evidence.
Either wittingly or unwittingly, do you, Casseia (and the others) really want to prevent 911 Blogger readers from seeing evidence & hypotheses that some knowledgeable 9/11 & other scientists still consider to be possibly or probably valid & true?
Do you, Cassaeia (and the others) really want to play that type of arguably-antiscientific, arguably-anti-news, and arguably-anti-truth role here at 911 Blogger? Even if you are personally closed to these possible truths, then will you at least allow other 9/11 Blogger readers to see what you don't like?
Let me know. Thanx. --TJM.
No...
As stated in this thread, this is about, "a concerted effort by the "No Brainers" to destroy the credibility of 911Blogger.com."
This is about, "an individual with a history of causing disruption within this movement. An individual who starts email campaigns directed against certain individuals in this movement. An individual who writes denouncing articles against certain organizations within this movement. An individual who writes denouncing articles about certain events that take place within this movement. An individual who keeps tabs on what certain individuals within this movement are saying so that he can use their statements against them in the future. An individual who makes sure to act like a lunatic when the mainstream media decides to give this movement some attention. An individual who takes it upon himself to "investigate" certain individuals within this movement in the hopes of discrediting them."
This is about 911Blogger.com having to change blog policy to "ensure that the intentions of the blog section are not abused." Prompted by Nico and his band of merry "No Brainers."
This is about the continued efforts of individuals putting forward a debunked theory, and others defending them.
This has nothing to do with the Scientific Method.
Ass.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
yeah now all my anti-semitic and unrelated blogs have to be....
APPROVED before being POSTED!!!!!!!
and to think I pay to be h... nevermind.......
;-)
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911dvds@gmail.com - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info
Jon - Can we stil be friends?
Jon, just because you don't like Nico, can we still be friends?
Seriously, Jon, you may be proving my guilt- & anti-guilt-by-association hypothesis about 9/11 truth better than anything that I can possibly say or write.
More and more frequently, 9/11 truthseekers may be choosing what to believe based on whom they like and how vocal & powerful the other person or group is perceived to be.
Nevertheless, you may not want to let dislike for Nico (however understandable) affect your judgment about the scientific merits of Morgan & Rick's article and the Salter article about No Big Boeings.
Just a thought -- Not a sermon. But feel free to drop some money into the collection basket as it goes around.
I want nothing...
To do with you, or the rest of the "No Brainers."
They, and you are not part of the same movement I am.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
You twist reality
You twist reality to match what you already "know."
That is the definition of delusion and mind-control.
It's also arguing backward - from the consclusion to what "must be" the facts.
Your anger betrays you as a fanatic.
You haven't "disproved" TV fakery. You just "say" that. You think if you repeat youself enough, you will have accomplished it. Which is irrational.
You project all your own faults, "destroying the movement" onto those who understand there was a Media trick involved.
You assume the attitude that "everyone" agrees with you - because what you have to say is so obvious. If your case were so obvious, why the need for smear and hate tactics?
Many diverse people are into 9/11 Truth. Last night at the Sunday meeting someone who reads this site told me, "What's the big deal? If they faked a few video clips?"
Activists and supporters in the real world are neither shocked nor very offended by the theory - especially because it is seen in the context of what is the overall case at hand. The theory is not implausible considering what, as a whole, we are looking at - a very big elaborate ruse and crime.
I think you should either get a grip on yourself, Jon, and cool off. Or, if you are unable to do that - i.e. my advise is not applicable in your present situtation, then speak to your handlers (or perhaps shrink?) - (for their presumed existence is the only explanation otherwise), and get them to devise another, better, less obvious, tactic or strategy.