Dr. David Ray Griffin and David Shayler Presentation in London - Review, Pics, and Video
9/11: David Ray Griffin & David Shayler - JULTRA
Yesterday I had the privilege to attend the London event with David Ray Griffin and David Shayler: Was 9/11 an inside job ? The event got an excellent plug in yesterday's Guardian.
A Christian theologian, David Ray Griffin is one of the most fluent, eloquent, impressive and persuasive people to write and talk on 9/11, and who's contributions to 9/11 study, critique and discourse have simply been enormous, so I was very much looking forward to this lecture.
After the introductions by a leading UK 9/11 Truth activist; a fellow called Andy, Shayler gave an excellent and very down to Earth and very decent speech which covered himself, his background in MI5 and 9/11 which progressed into a particularly outstanding section about liberty and democracy in the UK which got a large round of applause.
Griffin gave an excellent and detailed speech which covered a great deal of ground from the alleged hijackers, NORAD's response, the destruction of the WTC, the Pentagon and the political backdrop to 9/11.
Check out the link above for 3 youtube videos and a handful of pictures from the event.
Thanks to jultra for the heads up!
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In that link
In that link, it has a sentence that says:
I got the chance to chat with David Shayler afterwards, who was drawing quite a crowd around him. I was a little surprised to hear him talk about holograms, and it seems Shayler may be a 'no-planer'.
So with what suspected operative, CB_Brooklyn, wrote in one of his nonsense "no planes" blog entries about David Shayler being in support of "no planes at the WTC", it appears that David Shayler could, in fact, be in the process of outting himself as an agent of disinformation and destruction.
Interesting.
A Critical Plea To Dylan Avery, And A Call To Action
Yeah, I saw CB's recent comment about Shayler being a no-planer. Looks like it's been confirmed 100%... which begs the question: did David Shayler ever leave the MI5 in the first place?? Or is just he trying to get in their good books again? Either way, he's a real liability to The Movement. And because he appeared jointly with David Ray Griffin, that makes DRG- and 9/11 Truth at large- guilty by association.
How much does anyone wanna bet that whatever coverage this receives in the mainstream press, it will only focus on Shayler's most controversial beliefs- and how DRG must share those beliefs? It's happened many times before (especially over the past couple of weeks) and will continue to happen until the ringleaders of The Movement put their collective feet down and say NO MORE! to no planes.
Please check out and comment on my latest blog entry, linked directly below, for detailed info on this well-coordinated, vicious attack on The Movement via disinfo and slander over the past few weeks. This is not a joke! We are UNDER ATTACK. The very future of 9/11 Truth is at stake here!!
http://www.911blogger.com/node/2672
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http://tinyurl.com/q9wdl A must-see for the uninitiated: this video will awaken them from their long slumber
http://tinyurl.com/s8rrp A must-read for believers of the official story: David Ray Griffin administers the red pill
no-planers don't exist
It's a manufactured "theory" being pushed by a handful of disinfo ops.
yeah, they probably had a
yeah, they probably had a big laugh when they came up with that one. "Hmm, let's see.. we need a really nutty theory that would put people off investigating this stuff. No planes at the WTC? HAhaHAHAHA.. good one. Ok, off to work"
Link to David Shayler professing no planes please?
Does anyone have a link to Shayler proffessing "fake planes @ the WTC? I just don't like to go on "he said/she said" stuff on something this important.
IMO, the "fake planers" are disinfo artists who are trying to taint the truth movement & make the rest of us look foolish.
I feel very disappointed by
I feel very disappointed by Shayler, it seems to me like him and his girlfriend are probably still colleagues working for the intelligence services. Why is it that both ex-Establishment people Reynolds and Shayler, are both pushing this “no planes” disinfo suddenly? And why does it coincide with a big push by the “no plane” clowns on the Internet, and this place for example? Seems to me like the perps have given orders to their shills to go all out with the disinfo. Every prominent person supposedly representing 911 truth, who starts talking about “no planes a the wtc”, is either seriously lacking reasoning skills, or is outing themselves as disinfo, period!
This Shayler. 'no planes'
This Shayler. 'no planes' thing has been blown out of all proportion - anyone who saw his speech on Saturday will know that he is no disinfo agent and made a compelling case for 9/11 truth with no mention of 'no planes' - he is, perhaps, one of those who is acknowledging the possibility of there being no planes at WTC but he by no means talks publicly about it. I saw him give a talk on the movement yesterday in Brixton and he made no mention of 'no planes' theories. He is entitled to speculate all he likes in private and it is not his fault if he is tricked by journalists into private conversations which end up being taken out of context and printed as interviews. He is a valuable speaker who has helped the truth movement in the UK in weighs that greatly outweigh any damage he has done.
video of DRG's talk ?
is there a complete video url of Griffins talk in London ??
thanks
Bin Laden Captured?
This article on unconfirmed sources thinks that Bin Laden has been captured and that Bush will announce this on 9/11. I personally thought he was dead, but who knows. Politically, it would be a great idea, because it would give the news media a big issue to cover and 9/11 truth will be swept under the rug.
http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/?itemid=1909
Also, stop hating on the no plane people. They're doing their own research, some of it is quite interesting. They're not CIA spies or anything, they're just like us, investigating 9/11 from all angles. Everyone knows that the 9/11 truth movement believes in controlled demolition. Believe what you want, but don't try and suppress other people's research. we're all fighting for the same thing.
-adam
truth911.net
I appreciate and fully agree with this Adam.
I appreciate and fully agree with this Adam.
"Also, stop hating on the no plane people. They're doing their own research, some of it is quite interesting. They're not CIA spies or anything, they're just like us, investigating 9/11 from all angles. Everyone knows that the 9/11 truth movement believes in controlled demolition. Believe what you want, but don't try and suppress other people's research. we're all fighting for the same thing."
We must be the change we wish to see in the world. M Gandhi
9/11 Press For Truth FINALLY
9/11 Press For Truth FINALLY online! Pass it around...this is the most effective documentary we have now:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1016720641536424083&q=press+for...
And it's pathetic so many once credible people are turning no planer, just pathetic. They need to be exposed and shouted down as disinfo agents. I don't care how respected a researcher someone is, if they espouse "no planes hit the towers" they are pure disinfo.
If PFT is the most
If PFT is the most effectiive film we have then the movement is doomed. I nearly fell asleep watching it. And the way it misrepresents Bob McIlvaine's belief is shameful. What a tired and dull film it is.....i can honestly say it shed NO new light whatever on the 911 story.
Still those pesky muslims that did it....let's bomb Pakistan....that's the message I get from watching PFT.
>>>Still those pesky muslims
>>>Still those pesky muslims that did it....let's bomb Pakistan....that's the message I get from watching PFT.<<<
LOL! The film concludes that al Qaeda is controlled by Pakistan, who most likely is controlled by elements of the US. Sorry it didn't have missile theories or fake Osama tape conjectures:)
it's effective because it shows where the rabbithole begins
This film is effective. It's a gateway film.
It's not meant to 'shed new light' its meant to put things in an easily understandable perspective that shows just how questionable the government's report and role is on this issue.
It does a great job of showing the "guilty demeanor" of the 9/11 Commission, and that they're hiding something, and that nothing they have done has proven to be worth a damn.
If it goes into saying this is an inside job off the bat, then people who aren't warmed up to that idea aren't going to listen.
If you want 'new light', watch movies that already accept it was an inside job and delve further into the details. Otherwise for this movie to warm people up to the idea that the official story is BS at the same time get them to realize it must have been an inside job would take several hours.
PFT is amazing!
PFT is amazing!
Shayler is worth more than a hundred narrow minded hypocrites
All of this persecution of people who look at the evidence and see something other than what you see is outrageous. It is those who call others disinfo agents who are the real threat to this movement. Quit bashing the no-planers, you are no better than Limbaugh and O’Reilly when you do that.
Yeah, he's worth a lot more than all those silly neocons.
The no-planers are the same people who conjecture that all of manhattan didn't see a plane and that they're all lying. They conjecture that holograms can be projected in 3D from all angles and also cast shadows.
They conjecture that the planes can't enter the building or peirce the wall ...or that it should look something different than what it did with it 'morphing' into the building. Hello...that happens when a 200 ton object flying at 500 mph doesn't immedieately make a splash of damage when you view the film in extreme slow-mo.
All of this no-plane garbage is no different than the nutty, typical conspiracy theory tin-hat types who want to look at the most miniscule of factors and try to make stuff up off of things they have obviously no clue about.. Like the 'ghost plane' having it's wings 'disappear' when one can simply use their brain and see how the lighting can match the wing with the background given the fact that the plane banked right before hitting the building.
Of course none of the NPT's want to have any of that....nope, it's this fervent vigor and MISSION to claim no planes.
Why don't they just ASK questions?
without making their own answers? Other than their extremely amateur attempts at analyzing video footage, there is nothing to corroborate or support this theory. absolutely zero. no use, no reason, no point..
What's their goal?
It certainly has very little to do with maintaining credibility amongst us for trying to get justice from 9/11
so i say to hell with the NPT's and to hell with the people who hopelessly defend them.
I'm all for freedom of speech and thoughts, but I'm not for people making me look bad because of my general persuasion on the issue being conflated with their overly theorizing attempts that are no different than David Icke's mission to say the elite are lizards.
Their "research" goes nowhere and all we're seeing from the effects is getting bad press for it.
Thanks for that Pock!
Thanks for that Pock!
Joe, no-planers smear the truth movement...
Joe, the point is that no-planers smear the truth movement by claiming that the planes everyone saw, photoed, & videoed did not exist. (But you well know this, don't you.)
Do you & the other shills really think it's a good idea to bury the truth movement in this b.s.??? When the PNAC NeoCons do their next false-flag attack, let you & your family be among the targets, then we'll see how you feel about it.
Shayler might have gotten back his job at the MI5
"Also, stop hating on the no plane people. They're doing their own research, some of it is quite interesting. They're not CIA spies or anything, they're just like us, investigating 9/11 from all angles. Everyone knows that the 9/11 truth movement believes in controlled demolition. Believe what you want, but don't try and suppress other people's research. we're all fighting for the same thing."
Everyone knows that the NPT megaphone crowd, are playing the same role as disinfo operatives, whether are not they are serious.
____________
Stop giving attention to the "no plane theory" disinfo agents like Nico Haupt, Morgan Reynolds, Shayler, killtown, CB_Brooklyn, webfairy, Holmgren, and others who are sabotaging this movement, either by sheer stupidity or intentionally.
Fine Print
This is posted on all articles I looked at on Uncomfirmed Sources.
Unconfirmed Sources political satire and news story parodies as represented above are written as satire or parody. They are, of course, fictitious.
http://video.google.com/video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1016720641536424083&q=press+for...
911 press for truth is on google video.
Which bin-Laden was caught, fatty or skinny?
Was it fatty, skinny or some other bin-Laden?
Comment excerpt: Power of DVD distribution
It would be far better if all the people who were going to attend that concert took that money and duplicated DVDs and spread them to complete strangers. It would be far better if, instead of paying British Rail to arrive in London for an insane confrontation with police outside of the American Embassy, to instead, take that train fare and buy a stack of blank DVDs so that 'Terrorstorm' can get into more homes.
David Shayler and his colleague, by their attachment to the UK 911 truth movement, taint it. These people, wether they are working for MI5 or not, unbalance the focus, skew the debate and cause time to be wasted. I urge you to shun them, and to concentrate on getting the facts out to the population one DVD at a time.
It would have been far better had a call been made at the end of this lecture for all those who had the capability to copy DVDs to make themselves known, then all those who could not, be divided up equally between these equipped people. Then each of these 'copying cell' members would feed the copier with blank DVDs, who would return them to the members of his cell for distribution with Terrorstorm burned onto them. This distribution, and the expense of it would be in place of paying to attend rock concerts and pointless demonstrations. Sadly, in the company of Shayler, and judging by the response he got just by being there, something like this would not fly with a star-struck audience; this is what the Shaylers of the world want, be it at the behest of MI5 or just so he has something to do, the effect is the same; diversion of attention, distraction from the mission and time ticking away as we head towards total enslavement.
The colleague who attended this talk with me watched David Ray Griffin on Gloria Hunniford's programme this morning. There were of course, the usual attacks from the animal brigade (Hitchin) and Shayler made his appearance. I put it to you that the spread of DVDs like Terrorstorm into every household will make it impossible for the likes of Hitchin and any other attack piece author and paid disruptor to spread lies and disinformation about '911'. It is vitally important that we do not rely on the media at all to spread this message. Never before has it been possible to spread information so easily as it is today. We must take advantage of this and the available tools to short circuit the TV, the newspapers and their pernicious influence. That means copying DVDs so that whenever the talking heads try and dismiss the facts about '911' everyone already knows that the towers were brought down by controlled demolition, because they have all seen Terrorstorm and had it proved to them.
By all means, go on television programs, speak to newspapers and do the rest, but without the hand to hand spread of the facts, the mass media will be able to pour cold water lies on the facts and convince many people that the lie is the truth, that hot is cold.
To contact BYU or not contact BYU - that is the question
In the Griffin story posted today, it was written:
>Griffin advised UK 9/11 activists to write to BYU to express their concern which I thoroughly agree with.
Also, Friday Alex Jones urged us to contact BYU and express support for Steven Jones.
I believe that it is NOT productive to argue with or complain to BYU because they have NOT done the worst: they have not fired him, they have not taken away his pay, and they have not silenced him.
So there are many blessings to be thankful for. I believe that COMPLAINING to BYU could have an unintended negative consequence (e.g., they might get defensive and resentful of the protests, and more incllnded to try to justify further action against Jones).
On the other hand, a very short, polite, calm message that "I support Dr. Jones" is what I did. I called BYU and told them my name, citizenship, and voting status and said that I support Dr. Jones. When they asked if I had anything else to say, I told them that was all that I wanted to say.
Now, George Washington on this board a day or two ago advised us against ANY contact with BYU, even of the type above which I described. He promised Friday to get back to us soon with an update. I have not seen an update from George Washington on this issue. Has George Washington issued an update here, and if so where? If not, why has he not yet issued an update, and when will he? I want to know exactly why George Washington is advising us NOT to contact BYU under ANY circumstances about this.
It seems to me that a very short, very polite, non-complaining expression of support for Dr. Jones to those at BYU would be nothing but positive. Maybe I am wrong, but at this point, George Washington, I would ask you to explain to us exactly why such a polite expression of support would not be helpful to Professor Jones. Can we get a comment directly from Professor Jones supporting your contention that he told you he does not want us to contact BYU?
When in doubt, do what you
When in doubt, do what you think is right. Why do you need someone to tell you what to do in this instance? If you feel Dr. Jones was wrongfully taken off the job, and you feel you want to let the people in charge that they are wrong for doing so, then do it.
If someone has a grand plan and strategy that excludes such action, let them say what it is, and then you can decide based on that information.
Do what YOU think is the right thing.
Here's the contact info for BYU
physics_office@byu.ed
801-422-3567
Has anyone ever seen this pic of :"strange" jet engine at
the WTC site? http://www.thehandstand.org/archive/may2005/articles/911.htm
Griffin and the Pulitzer Prize
He is the best misinformation lemming leader the CT 9/11 truth movement has. All you neocon lemmings have grasped his word as truth. Are you guys the same lemmings who say do not trust the government story, I don’t, one should be able to think and form his own ideas, yet you guys follow the few “experts” with no facts! Not exactly the free minds I expected! You follow idiots who have no fact, no Pulitzer Prize not a thing. You are missing the real facts and have missed the rebuilding as you fall into the pit of ignorance and pay your 10 dollars for a DVD of lies. You support the official story of the 9/11 truth “experts”, yet you have not used your own minds to calculate energy, to figure out systems, or study the real enemy, the terrorist. Yep the terrorist in 2001 only killed 3000 and we killed with our cars 50,000 of ourselves, yet you guys are attacking yourselves, us, you, me, them, the United States as the enemy, just like Saddam bombing other countries instead of fighting the real enemy. You have chosen a cause, 9/11 truth movement, that is not a truth movement but seems like a political witch hunt, happy hunting. Just remember compared to Watergate, you guys are 3 years late in getting your Pulitzer Prize and a presidential resignation. LATE, wonder why Woodard and Bernstein are laughing at your movement, they got rid of a REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT IN LESS THAN TWO YEARS, and if they could get another Pulitzer Prize they would have had it 3 years ago or earlier. So what is wrong with your movement?
If you have to believe this junk you are lucky to have a theologian, not qualified in physics, not qualified in structures, not qualified in defense, totally not qualified for much on the 9/11 topic. So why worry about facts when you have just pure misinformation, it seems the more it is hearsay, the more statue the “expert” has in the 9/11 truth movement. Look at his books a total collection of politically biased fluffed up hearsay.
He is a great speaker writes great books, just short on any facts.
The only fact in the whole 9/11 truth movement is there will be no Pulitzer Prize for this conspiracy theory you have reveled and you can just relax and be the disrespectful lemmings as your false facts and lies spit on the real heroes of 9/11, may you all join the terrorist of flights 11, 175, 77, and 93 at the earliest opportunity so you can ask them WHY? Cause you guys have no WHY, just weak minded followers of misleading "'experts" like Griffin, the hearsay book writer, too bad you guys are unable to read his book and comprehend as he even tells you he has nothing, just talk from others, so he will not be sued. You missed in his books that he has no facts, no evidence, not anything but talk, opinions, no facts. Read it again, I have, you guys talk like you have facts, where are they???
Question your own "experts", use your own mind, but you will not, you will believe Griffin and like good lemmings you have fallen over the cliff of ignorance. Fact here is Griffin is a hearsay “expert” leading the mindless lemmings of the truth movement.
Washington Post Reader
Well, although the name 'Washington Post Reader' says it all... perhaps it should be 'Washington Times Moonie'..... ah well. Though 'Washinton Post Reader' is probably too dense to actually be a 'shill' .... they tend to be somewhat subtler in their approaches, his rhetoric does reflect the naive and relative unintelligent belief in the 'greater power'.... i.e., Bu$hCo. Care for a real debate on the issues, Mr. Washington Post? Rather than simple (and meaningless) ad hominen arguments and diatribes? The real lemmings are those who believe the US govt. and who believe in the Great and All Powerful Bush. And, unfortunately, there are many like lemming Washington Post Reader, who simply can't add 2 + 2 and get 4.
Planes or no planes
Give it a break. we're both on the same side. At least I think we are. I'm getting the sneaking hunch that some of you people keep trying to change the subject from whatever the article or report was reffering to. All of us agree there is no way those building could have collapsed the way they did from anything other than controlled demolition. Quit changing the damn subject on us.