Ron Paul Asked about 911

On Saturday, June 16th Dr. Paul was welcomed at Sky Harbor Int. Airport and asked what he could do to investigate the events September 11th, 2001.

Hear is a MAN who is not afraid to answer the question. Dr. Paul just speaks from the heart and tells it like it is!

Ron Paul 2008

The most frank answer...

to any question about 9/11 that I have heard yet to come out of the mouth of a politician.

"I think it's mostly, you know, a cover up. I would do whatever I could to get to the bottom, the bottom of it."

But, maybe that's because Ron Paul really isn't a politician. He's a statesman. It has been too long since there was a real statesman in our midst.

What a man! I was committed to supporting Ron Paul when he first announced his exploratory committee. I AM ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND TIMES MORE COMMITTED NOW TO PUTTING THIS STATESMAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

RON PAUL 2008!

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

Dennis who?

Dr. Paul hit it right out of the park.

www.v911truth.org

What are you guys talking about?!

He basically said that the cover up was inspired by guilt as a result of ineptitude or incompetence, and in effect did not even answer the question about what he would do as president. This guy's not a truther or a real investigator, and is not even CONSIDERING any possibility of government involvement aka MIHOP, or even LIHOP.

Why would people be gushing over this?
____________________________
On the 11th day, of every month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nRs8cu5Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftruthaction...

Is this really Robert Rice?

Some of your posts have been way out of character lately, man. Did the body snatchers get you? Is this Ethan Hunt in a Robert Rice mask?

The guy can't go fully MIHOP yet and expect to stay in the race!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get it through your thick skulls, people!!!! He WILL do everything in his power as President to fix the mess this country is in!!! Why is that so hard to see? If that is not an honest man, if he turns out to be just another scumbag politician... I would expect hell to freeze over or the universe to implode or something. If Ron Paul isn't trustworthy, I'll be strining myself up by the neck, because I'd obviously be a hopelessly misguided person.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

he has no realistic chance

he has no realistic chance of winning, and thats not just "playing into their hands". Robert RIce is correct. if Paul wanted to make a real impact, he needs to do it while he still has some sort of a platform/soapbox. instead, he will go on to lose, go back to being a congressmen with not much of a voice and not a word of 9/11 truth would have been spoken on the campaign trail expect by the brave people that confront Giuliani and the other scum. Ron Paul would probably make the best president out of all of the people currently running. he also has a slightly better chance than Gravel at winning which is none. this is just the reality of things if you know anything about electoral politics in this country. sad but true. i know its nice to have something to believe in and it really sucks to have to sit back and watch the inevitable, a Clinton/Obama/Romney/McCain presidency, but that is exactly what we are going to get. we are NOT going to win this thing by electing a president. it just doesnt work that way, not while the system is broken. the system WILL NOT allow a Ron Paul to win. it simply isnt possible right now. by all means keep campaigning for Paul and keep promoting Paul. i mention him to people all the time, especially the obvious media bias against him but you cant bash Robert for telling it like it is. and be honest conciousness, for all of Paul's merits, you dont really think Paul will ever go MIHOP do you? hes more honest about 9/11 than any other presidential candidate except maybe kucinich but last time i checked he was telling Giuliani to read the 9/11 Commission Report and talking about the threat of islamic terrorism. he would make the best president but he wont win. this is a fantasy and ignores all evidence of how things work in this corrupt country. im NOT saying we should stop supporting Ron Paul but i am saying it should be ok to be realistic about this as well as Paul's tepid stance toward the 9/11 truth movement.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

EXACTLY..

We need someone to actually speak up for 9/11 Families and a new investigation while they still have a platform and some spotlight! Dr. Paul is without doubt a great statesman and someone who would do right by the Constitution as President, but he is in NO WAY AN ADVOCATE FOR 9/11 TRUTH. (At least not so far.) I watched him for over an hour on C-SPAN last month and he never uttered a single word about it. He doesn't bring it up in debates. He isn't pressing for any action in the House of Representatives.

Like all Libertarian style candidates, Paul is good on some things and terrible on others. But can we honestly say he is a "hero for 9/11 truth" ?

Ten Days

That's my estimate of how long they would let Dr. Paul live after saying 9-11 was perpetrated by the US/Israeli governments. Ten days on the outside. Bob Graham, Max Cleland, and Bob Kerry all said the same things Dr. Paul is saying now, three years ago. He's not an investigative journalist, he's a Republican Presidential Candidate who knows just how far this thing has to unwind.

Why I was excited to see this:

Ron Paul, wether you agree with his particular stances on the traditional left/right paradigm wedge issues, has been consistently vocal speaking out against the financiers and their stranglehold over the American government. Many people would not have known about this system were it not for his hard work. I have been consistently impressed with how he has spoken truth directly in the face of institutions such as the federal reserve.

While this may not seem perhaps as effective as calling for an investigation limited in scope to 9/11, I submit that bringing knowledge of this system to the people is at least of equal value to our cause of bringing awareness of the rogue network of the September Criminals (and why they are allowed to function) to the general public.

My "hit it out of the park" comment was more in context to his presentation at the airport with that group of supporters, but I believe it does apply here to our community as well. He and his political base now appear ready to take on larger issues, having escaped being pigeonholed as a fringe candidate. I think he's playing it smart, and playing to win. I know many people that I respect deeply may have a difference of opinion with me on this, but I believe his response to Guiliani during the debates, using what is officially on the record (a la the Commission report etc) was brilliant politically. For Guiliani to contradict the book assignment would have been for HIM to reject the official conspiracy theory. I also believe the exchange got more people to look a second time at the story, and further I submit those who research the history of the military/industrial/financial complex find 9/11 truth almost by default.

Now, with this exchange, he has again affirmed that he believes the Commission to have been a coverup, and is skeptical about the possiblities of accountability being delivered by any "independant" body to investigate without being able to choose the right people for the job.

We should not pin all our hopes on any one individual. But it brings sincere joy to my heart to see a country whose values I deeply admire rally in such awesome numbers behind a candidate who is, by his own record, honest about protecting them. I believe the political system can work if it is made to work for and by the people.

PS: I apologize to Congressman Kucinich and his supporters for my flippant post title, I do respect his call for Cheney's impeachment and a new investigation, limited in scope or otherwise. Even the 9/11 Commission inadvertently allowed a vast amount of important information into the public domain.

www.v911truth.org

OUTSTANDING post

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

Right on Sir

neueregel

Robert you are so Right!!!!! It will get buried just like everything else. I say: "Webster Tarpley or Bob Bowman for President" But, even if that ever happened, they would get assassinated. Remember JFK and what he was proposing to do before the dreaded day. It's time to impose the Declaration of Independence once again, IMO.

Show "You know..." by dicktater

Easy dick...

Dennis is genuine. He wants peace. He is the ONLY politician who is actually GOING to do something in regards to some of the unanswered questions of 9/11 (besides Cynthia McKinney's hearings a few years ago).

To say he is a fascist NWO shill is pure ignorance.

Show "Double Horseshit!" by dicktater

Let me guess..

You listen to Alex Jones? I can tell by the negativity in your posts.

Me too, but I haven't for a few weeks because my stupid ipod isn't responding.

You are mistaken, however about Dennis. I don't agree with his recent bill about banning handguns. He's an idealist and a peace advocate, and I respect that. Plus, he has stated on several occasions that he will be investigating aspects of 9/11. Would a 'fascist, NWO shilling WHORE' dare touch 9/11 while in Congress? No.

Unfortunately, dick, you make yourself sound irrational with posts like the one above.

Let's keep our eye on the prize here: Getting down to the bottom of 9/11. Dennis Kucinich is making more efforts than ANYONE in Congress.

You are deluded

I listen to a lot of people, including Alex. I also read. I know that when a little pipsquek like Kookycinich drafts legislation to infringe upon an UNALIENABLE Right, he's either stupid and can't read the Constitution or he's up to no good. He ain't stupid.

Would a 'fascist, NWO shilling WHORE' dare touch 9/11 while in Congress?

Sure. Why not? I believe it will be a farce or it will be used as a means to lead you down a rabbit hole to nowhere. Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong on this. But, I can see what Kooky is up to and therefore, for whom he really works.

Kooky has done nothing thus far except flap his lips about holding a hearing. On, or about September 11th? Why then?

On the otherhand,

Hypocrite Kucinich Drafts Legislation To Ban Guns
Entertains notion that bloodthirsty Neo-Fascists carried out 9/11, then says we should hand over our only protection against them
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/200407banguns.htm

Kucinich Offers Comprehensive Plan to Address Violence in America
The Level of Violence in Society Constitutes a National Emergency; Hand Gun Law Prepared

"Kucinich is currently drafting legislation that would ban the purchase, sale, transfer, or possession of handguns by civilians."

http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=62819

Are a civilian?

Civilian: "A private citizen, as distinguished from such as belongs to the army and navy or to the church." Black’s Law Dictionary, 4th ed. 1968, page 313.

Are you a Citizen or are you a citizen? Why does the word appear both ways in the Constitution?

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

I believe you are the one who is deluded

How is the anti-corporate, anti-NAFTA Dennis Kucinich a "fascist, NWO shilling whore"? At least make your insults logical. While I'm less enthused about gun control than I was pre-9/11 Truth, I still respect those who honestly think it's better for the country. And I think Kucinich is honest about thinking it's a positive thing. Would you have called MLK a fascist, NWO whore because he used peaceful resistance? I think it would be great if human society could get to the point where we don't need/want guns anymore. I just think we're a bit further away from getting there than Kucinich does. But this does not bring him anywhere near Cheney and Bush. So stop the character assassination.

In any case, you're gun won't do shit for you if the guys you're against actually decide to go after you. You're better off putting the money into a nice casket.

Dennis Kucinich vs Ron Paul

So Ron Paul admits there's a cover up of... ineptitude. Not of murder, insurance fraud or any of the other crimes we are convinced were committed. Just ineptitude. Big whoop. He keeps going back to how we can do better with intelligence to avoid future attacks- That's a great idea, but there's not a word about looking into the real cause of death for all those innocent people. Therefore, I don't see Paul as a great champion for the crusade for truth. Is he the best republican? You betcha. What appeals to me the most about him is his integrity. He's probably got enough integrity to staff a real, independent investigation if he had to. BUT, he is a republican and I swore I would never vote republican because of their anti-abortion plank.

So, I looked at Dennis Kucinich. Actually, I looked at Dennis because Ron said that Dennis was the only other candidate whose views were similar to his own. (I thought it was amazing that a republican would recommend a democrat.) I hadn't looked at Dennis is a long time because my first impression of him from months ago was that he was so lacking in charisma that he was doomed. But, being desperate, I looked at every video on his site yesterday. I think he's hired a new speech writer or something, but I am now wholly convinced that he's the man we need in the white house. He's got the stones to file impeachment papers on Cheney (!) and I believe he's got the integrity required to look again at 911. Best of all, with Dennis we can also get universal, single payer health coverage plus the other democratic ideals that I cherish (right to choose, worker's rights, etc.).

I'm sure there's a reason that the truth movement seems to have abandoned Dennis in favor of Ron, but I must have missed it. If there's a substantive reason to think he'd not look into the truth, please let me know. Until then, GO DENNIS!!!!

SD

Dennis

Dennis Kucinich going for impeachment is pretty obviously a political move to get votes and some attention. Pelosi already said and keeps repeating that it's off the table. As for the 9/11 mini-investigation, I doubt he would get the support he needs to do anything.
I respect the man and before I saw Ron Paul in action, he was my favorite. But the guns ban goes against the constitution, and something I think the democratic party has it wrong.
I'm not democrat or republican. I can't even vote 'cos I'm not a citizen yet. But I do believe in the genius behind the constitution, and the only candidate running to follow it to the letter, is Ron Paul.

A cover up!

I agree - I am 100,000% behind Ron Paul for President! I wonder what his official theme song can be. Hillary chose a Celine Dion (Canadian) song. Actually - I think her supporters voted for the song. That's not depressing at all... :(

Regardless...RON PAUL '08!!! What other option is there?

"Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective — a New World Order — can emerge..." - George H.W. Bush, 9/11/91

Ron Paul Theme Song...

Three Shoes Posse released "Ron Paul Is Here" 5/18/07.

http://ThreeShoesPosse.com

Spread the word! Many hands make light work! EMA: educate, motivate, activate.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://TruthSeeker.us

Jah Mon!

Let's end ALL wars! Including the for-profit War On Drugs(TM)!

Gulianni's campaign manager had to quit - indicted for dealing cocaine. WTF!!!

Ron Paul might not win. But he's still a pretty awesome dude.

"Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective — a New World Order — can emerge..." - George H.W. Bush, 9/11/91

Freedom? Yeeaahhhhh RIIIIIIGGGHHHHTTT!!!!

"Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective — a New World Order — can emerge..." - George H.W. Bush, 9/11/91

gotta luv the rage!

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

Ah yes.

We used to get absolutely nuts to this track in high school. I love that chubby kid near the end of the video. You just see him shaking his head back and forth for a couple frames right when the song starts to KICK ASS!!! He's feelin' it. THAT KID FRIGGIN' ROCKS!!
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

RATM + Battle of Los Angeles

are so absurdly upfront, it's almost impossible to believe they didn't kickstart some kind of revolution in the earlier days of the New World Order. These albums and the INSIDE OUT cd "No Spiritual Surrender" make for some serious workout material. If you go back and revisit the lyrics to the self-titled RATM album, it's so starkly relevant today...GOOD STUFF

"Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective — a New World Order — can emerge..." - George H.W. Bush, 9/11/91

Ron Paul excluded in

Petition to include Ron Paul in Iowa Presidential Forum

Petition to include Ron Paul in Iowa Presidential Forum:
Please sign here!
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?rp063007

Petition to Christian Alliance for Iowa Forum

Here the petition to the Christian Alliance for the Iowa Forum
(the above one is to the tax relief group).
Please sign this one too!
http://www.petitiononline.com/rpwi2008/petition.html

Great idea Channing... Everyone needs to sign both these !!!

Ron Paul supports a real investigation into the tragic events of 9/11 - that's enough reason for me !!!

Best wishes

You can also call or email directly

You can also call or email the two groups directly:

Edward Failor
Iowans for Tax Relief
2610 Park Avenue
Muscatine, Iowa 52761
Phone: 563 264-8080
Fax: 563-264-2413
E-mail: itr@taxrelief.org

Steve Sheffler, President
Iowa Christian Alliance
939 Office Park Road, Suite 115
West Des Moines, Iowa 50265
Phone: 515-225-1515
Fax: 515-225-1826
E-mail: slscheffler@iowachristian.com

After reading each of their respective "mission statements"...

...I took the time to send emails directly to these fascists masquerading as political action group leaders who are protecting the interests of good Iowans.

I suggest attacking them based upon their blatant disregard for their own mission statements. The members of these organizations need to know this about their leadership, just as Americans need to know (be shown, even if it means holding their little hands) how their elected representatives violate their oath to the Constitution.

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

Show "cover up for lack of intelligent intelligence?" by kate of the kiosk

A monkey has more

A monkey has more intelligence and fortitude than George Bush. How the hell did he get the job.

Please provide some examples to support...

... your assertion.

"...but i don't think he has the "intellect" or the fortitude to take it on."

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

Strong words Kate

Where's your proof for your assertions?

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves" – Edward R. Murrow

I don't know why people are

I don't know why people are so excited about Ron Paul. As far as i know he's still reinforcing the neglegance aspect of 9/11 on the part of the government and that AL Quaeda did 9/11. I don't believe he will ever get to the "bottom" of it. He simply wouldn't be allowed by those who pull the strings. Ron Paul is limited hangout.

Ron Paul

I'm not sure he "hit it out of the park" but his is by far the most direct answer we've received from any presidential candidate. Yes he appears to still be pushing the "incompetence" theory when I'm sure he knows incompetence had little to do with causing WTC7 to implode.

Not yet ready to hang all my hopes on Paul, but in a political world of constant lies and obstruction, he is the single ray of hope right now. At least as far as I can see.

BTW, has Edwards made good on his promise yet to "look into it, and get to the truth of the matter"? Didn't think so...
_______________________
"Cogito ergo sum"

he is the single ray of hope right now.

What a sad statement. If he is the "single ray of hope" then we ARE DOOMED.

No, WE are the ray of hope for our world. The grassroots level is where I place my hope. Indeed it's the only place where change has ever sprung out from.

Hear hear!

I agree.
____________________________
On the 11th day, of every month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nRs8cu5Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftruthaction...

That's right!

We may very well be DOOMED, if we look solely to the next Presidential candidate to save us!

We know the goverment killed it's own on 9/11 and continues to kill it's own by denying care to our hero's and fighting wars based on lies. But what the hell is anybody doing about it!?!?!

The truth is, that It is revolution time! But how many of us are prepared to take it to the streets? Are you? If not, save the drama for your mama. Otherwise bring it on!

All of this worthless "TALK" is starting to piss me the hell off!
_______________________
"Cogito ergo sum"

Bring it on.

I agree. Remember the words of our last "Real" president............"Those who make peaceful revolutions impossible will make violent revolutions inevitable." Oil up your Winchesters truth seekers.

You Hit the NAIL...

RIGHT ON THE HEAD!!!! Thank you!!!!

neueregel

I agree

what about Gravel? any news on him? his blog address 9/11 and the Israeli/Palestinian issue at times.

Gravel is 82 years old

He's got some good ideas but has ZERO grassroots and stands no chance.

Ron Paul has a chance despite what the media would have you think.

And anyone here that thinks Ron Paul should be out there shouting from the hilltops about 9/11 being an inside job is really missing the boat here. If he does that he's DONE. We will not here from him again.

Props to Ron Paul for continuing to build momentum in the face of elite and media establishment opposition.

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

He can't come out and say it yet

The Readers Digest, Celine Dion-lovin' populace isn't quite ready for a 9/11 Truth presidential candidate. Soon but not now. And remember, these ruthless war criminals are still in power. Ron Paul is doing amazing! Why tear him down now? We should all be doing what we can to push this guy through the primaries - of all the candidates, I believe Ron Paul, moreso than Kucinich, and any other Democrat, is the only real American running for President.

"Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective — a New World Order — can emerge..." - George H.W. Bush, 9/11/91

no soon but not now, im

no soon but not now, im sorry but thats bull. Paul is going to go on to lose and then we would have had NO 9/11 truth candidate, not that i ever thought that Paul was that. again, he may be a good man but show me the evidence of him showing us any real support in the cause of 9/11 truth. its almost non-existent.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

Hey

Hey Chris, you should try contacting Ron Paul's campaign. That's how I got my answers as to where Ron Paul stands on 9/11 Truth. Well, I asked him about blowback after his appearance on Wolf Blitzer and this is what I got in reply a few weeks later:

"Thanks for contacting us!

Dr. Paul is not a conspiracy theorist on 9/11 as many portray him to be. He believes another investigation is warranted, not because he feels that their is a government cover-up but because government investigations tend to be somewhat ineffective when standing alone.

Thanks again for your interest,

Michael Krekel
Ron Paul 2008"

PJ
Ann Arbor Truth and Freedom
http://www.annarbor911truth.com
*The Views Expressed By Me Do Not Necessarily Reflect That Of The Group i Am A Part Of

no cover-up huh? why do i

no cover-up huh? why do i think he knows better than that?

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

If the following is the case...

...He simply wouldn't be allowed by those who pull the strings.,

then you have leave yourself only one choice. You must kill those who pull the strings. It would be justifiable homicide, though. The justification for your action is the defense of your Life, Libery, and Pursuit of happiness because those who "pull the strings" are unquestionably an immenent threat to those UNALIENABLE Rights.

Are you ready to defend your Rights? You only have those Rights you are willing to defend.

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

As a movement let us all move in one direction in the Primaries

I have a uncomfortable feeling that although we know Democrat & Republican, in today's standard, is not relevant in comparison to who's right & who's wrong we are splitting in two. We are already a party of our own, but if we split our tickets we only become a scratch and not a devastation to the Neo Cons. Ron Paul stands for the Constitutional rights. So do those who associate Democrat & Republican here. Ron Paul voted against the Patriot Act as immoral and Orwellian. So do we who either associate Democrat & Republican. Ron Paul admits the cover up of Politicians by Politicians in Government investigations. So my point is that whether you are red or blue in the face, we have all agreed with the ideologies of Ron Paul because he is the ONLY candidate to run against both parties and have stood up to both even before this movement existed. Kucinich is a nut, and I know some think he will help, because he fancies around the questions about 9/11 but the guy is a nut and all he does is vote the way true Democrats vote. So why are you surprised when he is anti war and follows Michael Moore. That is what the parties both right and left do they follow their members who all vote this way, Puppets. There is no man who has ever stood against the popular belief, and doesn't make statements that indirectly answer tough questions, like Ron Paul. He is direct. He is precise. He truly is the 9/11 truth candidate running for all of Americans and most importantly representing us on all the issues that matter not just one of them. He is each one of us in one mortal coil. Give him the undivided support he and we deserve. Ron Paul for President!

Although I have no way to

Although I have no way to know for certain, he may very well just be a sophisticated con-man. He says all the right things UNTIL he uses the word "inept"...which he repeats more than twice.

Ineptitude implies "incompetence". Ineptitude implies "negligence".

Ineptitude implies something less than even "LIHOP". Ineptitude supports the official conspiracy theory that Osama Bin Laden, from a cave, organized the attacks of 9/11/01.

Perhaps he didn't mean it in such a way, however I'm still of the belief that even if Ron Paul is of true heart, he won't be permitted to get very far. Look at all the obstacles he's faced already.

Don't go chasing mirages, my friends....

If he shouts 9/11 is an inside job now do you think he can win?

You have to remember he needs all the support he can get. He has to appeal to those who are on the edge as well about what happened. We can not assume everyone who is anti war is a 9/11 truther. You need to understand that No one WANTS to believe this was an inside job because if you do you are a sick person. The sad part is, it very well is an inside job. He has to represent a whole country of thought and ideology not just our movement. That would make him a civil war President to fight one side against the other. We need him to reach both sides so that we can reach out to the other side. You have to first infiltrate the white house by pleasing everyone not just your own party & then implement your ideologies. Isn't that how the Neo Cons did it. So let's use their tactics against them. Classic Politics you fight for the swing voters not the ones you already know you have and then once you have the power you implement your leadership. I would much rather seek the Leadership of Ron Paul then Rudy Giuliani so lets not aid Giuliani by eliminating his competition. Vote Ron Paul and send a message that the 9/11 truth movement is in the white house.

I agree with you in theory,

I agree with you in theory, but Ron Paul has no chance of winning. It's not going to happen. Remember that the elections of 2000 AND 2004 were STOLEN.

We are now living in the final stages of America's COUP DE TAT.

We are much better off taking to the streets than telling everyone to Rock the Vote.

I love Ron Paul as much as I love any politician

very little to not at all. I will say this, RP is different. He is one of a handful of politicians -- hell, he's the ONLY politician -- who truly walks the walk of limited government. He recognizes the danger that this country is in and the reasons for that danger and he is not afraid to talk about it.

He is honest and he really may be the only politician in America who has any kind of chance of salvaging what's left of this country.

And that is exactly why his candidacy does not have a chance. He will not be the republican nominee no matter how popular he is on the internet or anywhere else. He will not be the republican candidate even if every single poll demonstrated that he was the ONLY republican who could win the presidency (as some polls already show).

He will not be ALLOWED to be the Republican candidate. His views -- i.e., anti state, anti war, true (non-corpratist) free trade) are not only unacceptable to the owners of this country. Those views are feared and loathed by the owners of this country. It is as simple as that.

Support him all you want but know that he will never be allowed to be president of the United States under any circumstances. More importantly, LIVE what Ron Paul supports. ACT FREE. RESIST and IGNORE this illegitimate state to the extent that you can. DO NOT SUPPORT IT. DO NOT ASK ANYTHING FROM IT. RIDICULE IT AND NEVER STOP TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT IT. Do this and continue to do this and it won't matter who our "betters" select to 'lead' us.

Don't put your faith in any politician -- man or woman. It is sheer folly.

Instead put faith in God, in yourself, and in your friends and family.

Don't wait on a savior to ride in on a white horse. You will die waiting and you will die a slave. Make up your mind to live free, ACT LIKE YOU ARE FREE and you will be.

I'm with you.

This Ron Paul stuff, though informative to the system, and useful in that respect, is otherwise a waste of our time.

If we want to make a difference, we need to keep on keeping on as we are, and maybe begin to set to work at forming a new third party in the USA (I suggest calling it "Progressive Conservative"), with our sights set on splitting the middle in 2012 (provided that's not the end of the world! LOL). We must begin thinking in terms of a social upheaval, to take effect with the next generation of up-and-comers, as we begin to basically TAKE OVER in every power center in American society.

An Idea Whose Time Has Come
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=6015291679758430958&q=An+idea+who...

That said, our general enthusiasm for much of Paul's platform is helpful in terms of bringing the Republican Party back to its roots as the true right wing that it's supposed to represent.

There NEEDS to emerge a new third party. How else to eventually gain access to the levers of government power? Socialism is not the answer. I think we've learned that. Neither is top heavy corporatism which ultimately tips over into some form of communism. And getting behind Hillary Clinton is a non-starter as she's part of the same "club". What she'll represent will be the lessor of two evils, and that's no solution.

We need a new third party and to set our sights on the next mid term and the 2012 Presidential election.

Nothing else is workable. Ron Paul is not the answer, and even if he was, he's not going to win the nomination, let alone the Presidency. We must also be realists.

Just imagine if we could throw our entire weight behind a new third party, and not just one candidate, but many, many of whom would be we ourselves! Now that would be a revolution!
____________________________
On the 11th day, of every month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nRs8cu5Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftruthaction...

You are merely repeating what the media tells you

Think for yourself.

There is no 9/11 truth candidate. Ron Paul is the closest we have.
The media's tactic is to make sure most people believe he does not have a chance.
If you believe that lie then you are falling into their trap. Why would you want their choices? Hillary or Giuliani? With either media choice we will have patriot act 3 and war with syria, iran, etc. Ron Paul is the choice for peace!

Don't buy into the MSM lies!

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

Talk about falling into their trap!

If you honestly believe that a system which pre-screens and pre-selects 2 candidates, and then graciously allows voters to select one of the two is freedom; if you believe participating in such a charade has any chance at all of changing anything significant about this system or your life, you are securely in their trap.

Look at the last election. This glorious system gave you the choice between candidate A -- a multi-millionare, Yale skull and bonesman backed by multinational corporations who supports the Fed Reserve et al., the war in Iraq and the bogus war on terror including the USA PATRIOT Act etc. ; or candidate B -- a multi-millionare, Yale skull and bonesman backed by multinational corporations who supports the Fed Reserve et al., war in Iraq, the bogus war on terror including the USA PATRIOT Act etc.

It's a cliche because it's true.......if voting changed anything, it would be illegal. Don't be a useful idiot. Don't waste your time legitimizing this illegitimate system.

Your life, time and energy belongs to YOU. Use it wisely.

We need to do both.

This isn't rocket science, people. The longer RP stays in the race, the more chance he has to get the truth out about the IRS, and the Fed, and a message of peace. If he gains widespread popular support, then is squashed by the press, MILLIONS MORE WILL WAKE UP TO THE REALITY OF RIGGED ELECTIONS!!!!! Then they'll start researching, and uncover OTHER crimes.

Right now he's just being a smart politician. He'll give us a voice if he gets into the White House.

Don't you understand that if the PTB want to stop Ron Paul, they must expose themselves in some way to do so? As he picks up steam and as we pick up steam, they will have to try to act against us. When they move, they become visible to thousands more.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

Bottom Line

Whether you believe elections are rigged or not, your vote is your voice. If the system is corrupt, if it is illegitimate, if by any means it's illegal, at the least your vote shows where you stand as an individual. Remember this as told by Michael Parenti, a democrat who praised Republican Ron Paul by the way,( In my translation of text) "The Roman Elite tried to distinguish themselves from the slaves so they forced the all slaves to wear red robes of a sort to identify themselves as slaves. The idea was tossed out when they realized the slaves were now seeing themselves in numbers and could now Identify themselves as a larger body than that of the elite. This scared the Elite." Identify yourselves. Who cares if they rig the election because ultimately our voice will be heard and we will have rattled their feathers by the obvious strength in numbers our votes demonstrate. If Ron Paul gains considerable clout the media will have no choice but to accept his face on their camera's. Lastly, grow a back bone all of you, no more of this damn we will never get it attitude. Why be a member of the truth movement, which has everything against it and still fights like hell to the top, if you cower out because someone tells you to your gonna lose. Failure was never an acceptance by this movement when it started nor will it be now.

I have no more tolerance for this shit anymore.

People who repeatedly say that something can't be done, theat the obstacles are too high and too many, that everything is a mirage... ad nauseum blah blah blah, make me wretch.

I you don't think it can be done, it won't. At least not by you. It's that simple.

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

I second that.

ATTN DEFEATISTS:

Fuck off.

You don't like Ron Paul, that's one thing. All this "Whah-whah. He'll never do it. Whah-whah. He's got no chance..." SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS!
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

Easy!!!!!

Consiousness and Dicktater, Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

neueregel

You are a child

Something can be done. But it sure as hell is not going to be done by politicians and government. If any positive change comes it will come from regular people with regular jobs who are willing to die to be free. That's it. Everything else.......voting for blah blah blah candidate etc. is a fairy tale.

My God, look at the 20th century alone and give me even one reason to trust government ANY government.

Sorry to break it to you, but there is no Santa Claus who is going to take charge of it all and save you. Complaining when others point this hard truth out, will not help you.

I agree that we have to man-up...

But having an ally in a position of power would help us, not hinder us. Ron Paul supports the liberty agenda. We support the liberty agenda. If he's in position to take some shots at the NWO. I'll be glad to feed him some ammo. Of course I'll be taking action independently also...

Hey st8nme, have you looked into G. Edward Griffin's Freedom-Force International?

http://www.freedom-force.org/

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6015291679758430958&q=an+idea+wh...

What do you think of his ideas? I think something like this is needed.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

Yep.

"But having an ally in a position of power would help us, not hinder us."

There is no doubt about this.

You think that RP or any candidate like him has a chance to be president. I disagree. I'm not happy about it, but I disagree.

I can't tell anyone else how to spend their time (and if I could, I wouldn't). I have ruffled the feathers of a few Ron Paul supporters. That was not my intention. I really believe RP to be a good man.

I choose to use my time differently than participating in a system I believe to be illegitimate. I have tried to explain why in an abbreviated message board way --mostly unsuccessfully.

I think we can both agree that it is important to spread the message RP is trying to get out there. I'll shut up at that.

Then who will you support?

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

Who will I "support"?

I choose not to legitimize an illegitimate system by participating in it.

You need to have your voice be heard

Even if you don't support any of the candidates that will eventually be in the 2008 election (It doesn't look like I will either) I think you shouls at least write it your own preference... if just as a protest vote.

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves" – Edward R. Murrow

liberty not democracy

and after reading Zinn's People's History of the US...liberty for the landed white male elite and certainly not democracy for the masses.

I find it funny...

That Dennis Kucinich has said a lot more about investigating this issue than Ron Paul ever has. In fact, Ron Paul has gone on the record to say "I apologize for giving the impression that I support the 9/11 Truthers." To the contrary, Dennis Kucinich invited me to a private dinner back in March with him and members of his staff specifically to tell me what issues he was thinking of investigating and what I thought he should be looking into! Additionally, Kucinich's stance has not wavered, and Ron Paul's has done a good deal of waffling with this topic. Ron Paul may align with all of you on the rest of your political beliefs, but if you want to see justice served for 9/11, he's not your man. Other than that he's a brilliant, brilliant, candidate...just not the 9/11 truth candidate.

Justin A. Martell
Founder - Student Scholars for 9/11 Truth
www.sst911.org

In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand at the mongrel dogs who teach! Fearing not that I'd become my enemy in the instant that I preach! My pathway led by confusion boats...mutiny from stern to bow!

You're right

Unless Waxman grows a pair, Kucinich seems to be the only one willing to do anything about 9/11, and we still don't really know what he wants to do.

But all this bloviation over Ron Paul is wasted energy. He will never be allowed to win the Republican primary, nor does he have at the moment anywhere near the kind of support necessary to win. He seems like a straight shooter, yes, but as a libertarian he also believes we should turn over everything to predatory capitalism. Uh, that's the problem, not a solution.

Incorrect

You have made a lot of assumptions about Ron Paul that are just wrong. Please read the issues before you "blovioate". He is much tougher on corporatism than Hillary, Edwards, or the GOP darling Giuliani, I can gaurantee that.

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

"and we still don't really know what he wants to do"

Bullshit. He wants to take our guns. I'm no fool. I recognize a fascist when I smell one and Kucinich is a stinking little pipsqueak fascist.

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

Actually...

As the former mayor of Cleveland, Kucinich has seen first hand the violent crimes that can happen on the streets with hand guns. I'm not saying I support his decision on this issue, but, he's got the well being of the public in mind, he's not part of the NWO scheme to disarm the populus, come on! But anyway, like I said, Ron Paul is a great candidate, but not the 9/11 Truth candidate. If you want 9/11 Truth you'd have a much better chance with Kucinich.

Justin A. Martell
www.sst911.org

In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand at the mongrel dogs who teach! Fearing not that I'd become my enemy in the instant that I preach! My pathway led by confusion boats...mutiny from stern to bow!

Justin, disarming the populus IS an NWO scheme!

Therefore, it is foolish to say the Kookycinich is

not part of the NWO scheme to disarm the populus

unless you are trying to differentiate between schemes to disarm the populus as one scheme being good and one being bad. How stupid is that? Guns are not the cause of violence in the streets of Cleveland. Though there are undoubtably many contributing factors, fundamentally the cause of violence is the result of all attempts to limit INDIVIDUAL Liberty.

Over and over again, history hath shewn that a disarmed populus is left defenseless to the whims of those who remain armed, whether it be the state, common thugs, or both. And, most often it is the state that most mercilessly exploits the vunerability of the defenseless in furtherance of it's own political agenda.

I am not impressed by your Masters in Collectivism. Re-register for Introduction to the Declaration of Independence. Then, come back once you complete Second Amendment 101.

I want 9/11 truth. However, I want for us to be able to fully enjoy our UNALIENABLE Rights more. Because 9/11 truth can only spring forth from our ability to exercise our UNALIENABLE Rights. And, that means ALL of them. With Kookycinich, I would have to fight against him to defend my Rights. With Ron Paul, I would be fighting along side him. No brainer, IMHO.

My UNALIENABLE Right to Keep and Bear Arms, including handguns, for use in the defense of Liberty, yours and mine, is not negotiable with anyone.

If you don't know your Rights, you have none. And, you only have those Rights that you are willing to defend.

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

Where is Kucinich's grassroots? Ron Paul has a far better chance

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

Kucinich saw Virginia Tech...

And immediately started shouting that we need to take everyone's guns away.

Now, I don't own a gun and I've never even fired one. And I'm (was) "lefty". But this is now one of the most important issues to me. What do you think the next step will be once the Gummint rounds up all the guns, hmmm?

Kucinich has just been using slick politician-speak, and you buy into it because you're "liberal" and young. Don't get starstruck. This is what they are trained to do. They speak in terms that make you feel good, they say all the words you already know you want to hear. Ron Paul does it too, but to a much lesser extent. Kucinich isn't speaking from his heart, trust me. He's just a highly intelligent man who knows how to influence a particular demographic.

Kucinich will take a hard-line against guns. Now remember, the next prez is going to inherit Bush's dictatorial powers... Won't be much stopping the gun grabbing agenda should Kucinich take office.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

I own...

guns, and I am not a "liberal." And after speaking to Kucinich privately on several occasions, I believe he is sincere about his inquiry into 9/11. Look, it takes a lot to get me star struck, especially when I am dedicated to a cause as much as I am to 9/11 Truth. I'm not about dismiss someone because some of his beliefs don't align with mine. When they start going around and taking our guns I'll be worried, and I don't think Kucinich would ever support that. He wants to take measures to stop violent crimes that stem from handguns. Again, if you don't really want 9/11 Truth then support Ron Paul, if you want someone who actually might do something about this, then Kucinich is your man.

Justin A. Martell
www.sst911.org

In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand at the mongrel dogs who teach! Fearing not that I'd become my enemy in the instant that I preach! My pathway led by confusion boats...mutiny from stern to bow!

How funny Justin

I'm not about dismiss someone because some of his beliefs don't align with mine.

Ron Paul's beliefs regarding 9/11apparantly don't line up with yours, yet you dismiss him in favor of Kookycinich the gungrabber.

When they start going around and taking our guns I'll be worried, ...

By then, it will be too late to start worrying. Best to worry now, stock up now while they are actively trying to enact legislation to facilitate their eventual gun grab, and be ready to resist when Kookycinich sends in the goons for your guns. Hell, why wait? Just turn them in now and join NWO and share in their bloodfeast.

...and I don't think Kucinich would ever support that.

Hypocrite Kucinich Drafts Legislation To Ban Guns
Entertains notion that bloodthirsty Neo-Fascists carried out 9/11, then says we should hand over our only protection against them
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/200407banguns.htm

Kucinich Offers Comprehensive Plan to Address Violence in America
The Level of Violence in Society Constitutes a National Emergency; Hand Gun Law Prepared

"Kucinich is currently drafting legislation that would ban the purchase, sale, transfer, or possession of handguns by civilians."

http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=62819

Are a civilian?

Civilian: "A private citizen, as distinguished from such as belongs to the army and navy or to the church." Black’s Law Dictionary, 4th ed. 1968, page 313.

Are you a Citizen or are you a citizen? Why does the word appear both ways in the Constitution?

Look, it takes a lot to get me star struck...

You've been struck so hard that you need your head examined. Of course, you will have to pull it out of your arse first.

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

When they start going around and taking our guns I'll be worried

Yeah.

"Once I'm rotting in a FEMA concentration camp, THEN I'll start worrying." LOLers!!!!!

"Hell, why wait? Just turn them in now and join NWO and share in their bloodfeast."

Mmmm... Bloodfeast...

------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

Guns Vs no guns, is not a matter of "belief".

It is a matter of strategy, a matter of control. Honestly, now that I know what the government is up to, I want MORE guns on the streets, NOT LESS. The violence in America is absolutely not due to the number of guns!! We have a high concentration of VIOLENT PEOPLE here, due to the decay of our culture. (A decay which I now believe was largely by design, BTW.)

Kucinich has the luxury to speak more freely than Ron Paul for several reasons.

1. Kucinich is a "lefty", and it is more acceptable to question Bush and 9/11 on the left, so he doesn't have to worry as much about alienating his "base".

2. Kucinich is old hat. He's already run for president, and been marginalized effectively. Nobody expects him to get anywhere near the Dem nomination, so he's not a threat, so there's not as much scrutiny on him. Ron Paul is new to the spotlight, and the PTB fear his fresh take on things and his "newness" appeal. They're watching him like a hawk, and if he slips up he'll be gone. He knows this very well.

Ron Paul is playing politics right now, and he's doing a damn fine job. The reason he's quoting the 9/11 Commission Report and "blowback" isn't necessarily becuse he believes it's accurate. He's using the government's own statements and policies against the other "bought-and-paid-for" candidates. Try to be more observant. Look at people's tactics, at their MO's. Ron Paul is using the same tactics as the 9/11 Truth movement for the most part. He's just not going all the way on 9/11 YET because it is political suicide for him. More so than it is for Kucinich.

BTW, You really think Kucinich has a chance? With Hillary as a strong front-runner and Obama charming everyone with his "I'm whatever you want me to be" politics? LOL!! Here's the thing. TONS of "liberals" (like myself) would cross over to vote for Ron Paul. How is Kucinich going to attract "conservatives"? HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

One more thing...

"He wants to take measures to stop violent crimes that stem from handguns.

If you think violence is caused or increased by guns (which are nothing more than a tool, an inanimate object) explain the rampant violence in America's prisons. The prisoners sure as shit don't have any guns in there!! But they're still beating each other to death, and shanking each other. NO GUNS WHATSOEVER IN PRISONS. YET THEY ARE PROBABLY THE MOST VIOLENT PLACES ON EARTH NEXT TO A WAR ZONE. Now, if you can rationalize yourself into some BS excuse on that one, you better get your head checked. "Oh, uh, they had access to guns before they went to prison, and the guns made them violent before they got in there."

It's a culture of violence. Poverty, lack of education, glorification of violence 24-fucking-7 in the media, police instigation/brutality... (Most of the more violent "demographics" on the outside of prison have ALWAYS been harassed by heavy police presence. So which came first, the chicken or the egg? I know if the fucking pigs were swarming all over my neighborhood all the time, I'd be getting pretty edgy.

I the spirit of... Slick Willie, was it? "It's the economy, stupid."

It's NOT the guns, stupid.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

i agree. but what

i agree. but what specifically did you suggest Kucinich look into? and what did he specifically tell you that he was looking into? details man, details!

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

Paul says 9/11 is a cover-up & he will reinvestigate as Prez

.. & that a contrived false-flag event may lead us into Iran.

How can you say that he wouldn't serve justice on 9/11? He's said he would reinvestigate.

& this -- " "I apologize for giving the impression that I support the 9/11 Truthers." " ain't a direct quote

From an emotional

From an emotional perspective I'd have preferred that Paul would have simply come out and said that 9/11 was covered up and that a new investigation needs to be conducted. But in all honesty, I'm glad that he didn't. Here's why:

First and foremost, he's the only Constitution based candidate with any chance of winning an electoral vote if he wins the popular vote. No third party without reps in the electoral college will have any kind of chance. That's why Paul left the Libertarian party and returned to the GOP - he knew he'd have zero impact because of our two party system.

Second, of all of the other GOP/Dem contenders, who else would you choose? Someone who's going to increase corporate control by working with the elites to develop expanded government and more social systems? Someone who's gonna work with those same corporations and continue toppling goverments who are resistant to global integration under false leadership, such as the UN, the EU, or such as our own Executive branch? Even if Ron Paul isn't a 9/11 Truther, he's the only candidate who's record clearly shows that he'll protect our Constitution, that he'll protect our Bill of Rights, and that he'll return the authority of government to the governed rather than continue handing it to private financial interests.

Would you support Hillary and her expanded government and continued war in Iraq and maybe Syria or Iran? Or Giuliani who's supported unConstitutional gun bans, has roots in organized crime, lied about foreknowledge of WTC collapses, and runs around telling us that the boogeyman is coming to get us?

For the last 5 decades, Americans have had no choice at the polls except the lesser of two evils. This is the first time in my life that I've witnessed a candidate who has even the slightest chance of knocking our corrupt system down a few notches, returning authority to the individual states, and leaving the Federal government out of our lives with the exception of matters that are Constitutionally delegated to them.

Getting back to Paul's position on 9/11, if I were in his shoes I'd have said the exact same thing. I'd let the Truth movement know that I believe there was a cover-up and that people need to face the fire for their actions on that day. But I'd never step out on the campaign trail and say "9/11 was an inside job". The media would have a heyday and I'd be presented as an enemy of all patriotic Americans. It would be complete, 100%, gauranteed political suicide.

I'd even work carefully around the matter once I was in office. I'd carefully and quietly collect information and I'd build an ironclad, rock solid case before I began announcing to the public that "new" details regarding 9/11 have emerged. Folks like us would jump up and cheer if he announced his intentions on day 1, but the majority of America would likely cringe and the corporate media would again begin a smear campaign that would make current propaganda appear subtle in comparison.

I simply don't see any other candidate who is close to feasible. At least Paul is willing to restore the foundation of government. That alone is more than any other candidate is offering. If 9/11 isn't gonna be on the table, that truly sucks. But not voting for ANY viable candidate means one less vote for Paul. That means I would be actively promoting a corporate candidate by means of omission, meaning I'd be adding one more nail in our coffin.

I hope that Paul WILL re-investigate 9/11 if he's elected. But from a broader picture perspective, 9/11 is only one of many crimes that the corporatists have committed over the last several decades. And it's only one event among many that have taken our lives, our rights, and our dignity for the sake of corporate control and the development of globalism. As critical as 9/11 is, and as evil as it is, Ron Paul is very well aware that it's only one piece in a much larger jigsaw puzzle. he needs to walk very carefully if he's going to have any hope of being effective.

People who are bent out of

People who are bent out of shape because Ron Paul won't just come out and say that our government carried out the attacks are being a little ridiculous. The man would have absolutely ZERO chance of making it out of the primary and he probably would have been booted from all of the debates had he done so. Look how Republicans reacted when he simply stated that blowback feeds some of the hatred Muslims have for us. The man is doing the REASONABLE thing. If you think 9/11 was an inside job you would simply want a real investigation because you know what the evidence will show. What you don't want is to look like an accusatory fool who is going to directly blame people for something without and formal investigation or trial.

Playing the "I think there were unanswered questions" card and putting forth the notion that people need to be held accountable for being inept is the PERFECT thing to be doing. Not only will you get support from people who believe 9/11 was an inside job (or should at least) but you will gain support from those who think that there are simply unanswered questions or those who want to know who was so inept and have them punished. I would be doing the exact same thing he is doing and I fully believe it was an inside job.

Go run a candidate who openly says 9/11 was an inside job and see how far he gets. Bob Bowman couldn't even win as a Democrat and he was all over the 9/11 being an inside job issue.

Zed,

I hope you're right..........

The record shows that

with just a little more money Bob Bowman would have won his seat in Congress. Just for the record.
____________________________
On the 11th day, of every month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nRs8cu5Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftruthaction...

For the Ron Paul Naysayers here

Who will you vote for for president?
What do you want? Very little has been said about 9/11 from any candidate. Kucinich says he will investigate, Paul is open to investigating. That's all we have.

You can forget about the rest of the candidates.

To me, Ron Paul represents our best hope out of our 2 choices as 9/11 truthers. Why?

1. Ron Paul has a larger grassroots than Kucinich, therefore a better chance to win.. Paul has been winning polls by a longshot across the internet. Even on the liberal blog Daily Kos, Paul beat Hillary Clinton by around 1,000 votes on a recent poll! Kucinich is typically one of the bottom rung candidates, even on internet polls.

2. Althought the democrat field is pathetic, it is generally viewed as much stronger than the Repub field. Hillary is practically a lock to win the dem nomination. The repub field is wide open.

3. Ron Paul's idea of a small federal govenrment is the best and really only way we can end the military-industrial complex. With a small federal government, corportism gets kicked in the balls, and the M-I complex dies. Any plans of expanding the federal government means expansion of the M-I complex, and more war, whether it's Iraq or elsewhere.

4. Ron Paul is the only candidate talking about ending the federal reserve, who we all know is one of the main sources of the 9/11 disaster. With no fed, there is no war funding, no elite bankers, no 9/11. Kucinich is not proposing to end the fed nor will he. Remember, the Federal Reserve is a cartel of private bankers who have hijacked our country- they do not report to any government agency, and are destroying us. Ron Paul would end this nightmare, no one else will.

I think we as 9/11 truthers really need to think hard about how we see ourselves politically. Are we more concerned with party labels or for getitng to the root causes of 9/11 and never have this kind of insanity happen again? We all want to bring the culprits to justice. But if we don't do what we need to do to prevent another 9/11, we can hang the entire bush administration from the lightpoles and it will do us no good, because the elites will still be in charge.

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

yeah, that sounds like a great idea.

i dont know about everyone else but im sure hoping for another 4 years of republiceans in power..

you guys are fucking crazy.. i dont give a shit what this old man has to say, just go read his website..

Since you have implied that you have read it...

... why be vague? Why don't you just go ahead and enlighten us with your discoveries.

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

elmo already has.. Ummm,

elmo already has..

Ummm, yeah....i think this
Ummm, yeah....i think this speaks for itself..... he is hard core pro-life.

And let me reiterate....he voted to put a wall up on the mexico border.

I just don't see the fascination with this guy. And no, I would never vote for Hillary.

"The right of an innocent, unborn child to life is at the heart of the American ideals of liberty. My professional and legislative record demonstrates my strong commitment to this pro-life principle.

In 40 years of medical practice, I never once considered performing an abortion, nor did I ever find abortion necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman.

In Congress, I have authored legislation that seeks to define life as beginning at conception, HR 1094.

I am also the prime sponsor of HR 300, which would negate the effect of Roe v Wade by removing the ability of federal courts to interfere with state legislation to protect life. This is a practical, direct approach to ending federal court tyranny which threatens our constitutional republic and has caused the deaths of 45 million of the unborn.

I have also authored HR 1095, which prevents federal funds to be used for so-called “population control.”

Many talk about being pro-life. I have taken direct action to restore protection for the unborn. "

Submitted by Elmo on Wed, 06/20/2007 - 2:31am.
» reply | 6 points
And someone please tell me
And someone please tell me what he thinks about 911, because judging from his webpage he seems to think "911 terrorists" with expired visas pulled it off.

"The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked.

Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas."

Submitted by Elmo on

I find it amusing that no

I find it amusing that no one wants to comment on the fact that Ron Paul thought it would be a good idea to place a wall along the border or US/Mexico.

For what...to keep the scary "911 terrorists with expired visas" out????

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not interested in having walls built along our borders .

And really, come on, this guy will never get elected. The voting system in this country is controlled by those who count the votes. HELLO PEOPLE, can you say Diebold??

And by the way, has anyone seen this little gem:
The Supreme Court Justice cites Jack Bauer and the Hollywood torture show "24" as relevant background for constitutional jurisprudence:

"Jack Bauer saved Los Angeles. ... He saved hundreds of thousands of lives," Judge Scalia said. Then, recalling Season 2, where the agent's rough interrogation tactics saved California from a terrorist nuke, the Supreme Court judge etched a line in the sand.
"Are you going to convict Jack Bauer?" Judge Scalia challenged his fellow judges. "Say that criminal law is against him? 'You have the right to a jury trial?' Is any jury going to convict Jack Bauer? I don't think so.

"So the question is really whether we believe in these absolutes. And ought we believe in these absolutes."
"I don't care about holding people. I really don't," Judge Scalia said.

Even if a real terrorist who suffered mistreatment is released because of complaints of abuse, Judge Scalia said, the interruption to the terrorist's plot would have ensured "in Los Angeles everyone is safe." During a break from the panel, Judge Scalia specifically mentioned the segment in Season 2 when Jack Bauer finally figures out how to break the die-hard terrorist intent on nuking L.A. The real genius, the judge said, is that this is primarily done with mental leverage. "There's a great scene where he told a guy that he was going to have his family killed," Judge Scalia said. "They had it on closed circuit television - and it was all staged. ... They really didn't kill the family."

of walls and CIA programming, etc.

I share the concern that a wall might turn out to be for keeping us in rather than keeping others out, although I think that may tend to depend on who builds it and under whose supervision. Beyond that, I've got no problem with building it if it helps stem the tide. However, I agree with Ron Paul that the goodies being dangled in front of illegals need to end in order to stop enticing the hordes up here. Also, the NAU/SPP/NAFTA regionalization needs to be undone; that is largely responsible for the huge flow of Mexicans up here. They've been economically displaced (victimized) by the same corrupt elite some of whom are behind 9/11.

I laugh at the notion that it's "racist" to enforce border security. It's no more "racist" than locking a door is "racist". Lots of people say it, but it's false. However, if that were the *only* thing we did, then I would question our sense of charity. Again, we need to reverse bad policy and un-make (or at least un-invite to the governance table) some entities like the North American Competitiveness Council.

As for the Jack Bauer type stuff... yeah, it's insane. Ron Paul understands that and argues that very point, in the GOP debates. Maybe you haven't been watching them?

Argh... I am now doing what I don't like to see done: getting off the topic of 9/11 on this board. I don't want to argue here over Ron Paul, or other politicians for that matter. At least, not much. I maintain that we should keep this board 9/11-focused. I'll close with this: whatever amount of energy you personally want to put into RP's campaign, or any other campaign, is your choice (and I'm definitely going to work on RP's), but let's all stay on track with our 9/11 efforts. There's no reason to go "either/or" here. Keep up the good work, and keep building the movement; we'll win if we want it.

Want to figure out 9/11? Ponder the 9/11 "Mineta Stone"

So you'd rather have Hillary Clinton and the NWO mob

fighting the next great war to keep the military-industrial complex alive, as long as abortion is untouched at the Federal level? Do you realize how few people abortion laws affect? Do you realize Ron Paul is only talking about leaving it up to the states, not making abortion illegal? Here in California, abortion will NEVER be illegal, no matter what any president does.

Move for crying out loud! You're speaking about minor issues and letting the big ones like WAR get away.

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

I love how the comeback is

I love how the comeback is I'd rather have Hillary.
That is the weakest cop out response I've ever heard.
And if you have read my other posts, I clearly stated that I would never vote for Hillary

Still no comment on the wall....so should I assume that you are for the wall, since you assume that I will be voting for Hillary.

Keep living in your fantasy world and good luck with your old man Ron Paul....LOL...It's never going to happen!

And where shall I move to? What an ignorant comment.

And let's just not worry about women that do not live in California regarding the abortion issue. I guess women living in other states just don't matter as much as those that live in California. Pathetic response...

maybe you haven't noticed

But hillary is a near lock for the democratic nomination.
Ron Paul is the only candidate that can beat her.

That's why I said get ready for Hillary.

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

Great, I would rather take

Great, I would rather take my ballot and wipe my ass with it than vote for Hillary.
What's your point.
(And you didn't say get ready for Hillary, you said "I'd rather have Hillary")

And what about the wall for the 10 th time????

And by the way, I live in California, and as a woman I just so happen to have compassion for women everywhere. I also have compassion for our Southern neighbors and do not think it is necessary to build barriers. Perhaps you can't understand that.

And realist, please be real.....he has no chance. Do you honestly think the elite in this country( and in the world for that matter0 would allow this guy to get elected? Do you think they would allow IRS to be dissolved, or better yet toss out the Federal Reserve Bank.
( I think there would be a fair amount of powerful rich fucks that would NEVER let that happen)

Stop making up things I'm saying

Did I say anything about a wall? You were all over me because I mistakenly thought you may have been voting for Hillary, but you're trying to put words into my mouth and say that I'm for some kind of wall. And what that has to do with "compassion" is beyond me.

Look, I'm not for every last issue that Ron Paul is for, nor do I think that the system is fair, or that the cards are not stacked against him.

But the fight is worth it.

Just like the fight to expose 9/11 is worth it, however unlikely that may be.

And, you haven't told me what you think we should do. I seriously want to know, I'm not being sarcastic.

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

Stop making things up??? I

Stop making things up??? I asked the question about Ron Paul's vote for placing a wall along the southern border.
I simply asked your thoughts, I did not say you were for it...I said should I assume your for the wall like you assumed I would be voting for Hillary...
I just never received a response from you. So I kept asking.

And yes, the issue is about compassion. Placing walls to keep a race of people from coming into this country..is well...racist. And thinking that there are scary terrorists just waiting to run across the border..is well...crazy.

And to answer you question with regard to what I plan on doing...well first off I will not blindly through my vote in the ring for someone that may have some good ideas ( but these ideas will never fly, like in my previous post, the elitest will not allow someone to come in and destroy their money train) but also has some ideas that I find quite disturbing. So what am I left with...well a whole lot of nothing. But I also think the voting system in this country is corrupt, so what is a person to do. My answer to that is...I tell as many people as physically possible about what I know about 911. I give out as many DVDs of Loose Change 2, 911 Mysteries etc.... All in all, I do my part to educate people.

Until we have people in the streets demanding change...nothing is going to change.

I tell anybody and everybody will listen about the truth about 911. I work for a large engineering firm staffed with engineering professionals with advance degrees in engineering, physics and geology and handed out Loose Change DVDs to folks and changed their whole out look on the US government. Not one of these engineers or scientists came back to me to tell me I was crazy. These are the folks that need to be informed. These are the things that I think are important.....education of the masses. I am sure you participate in similiar activies as everyone should.

So I'm done fighting with you about Ron Paul, vote for whom ever you like and I will continue my quest to educate the peeps.

And by the way, as a scientist in the environmental engineering field, I see the destruction of our environment everyday...and this fighting about presidents and 911 is worthless if someone does take action immediately!!!!!

OK

You said: "I also have compassion for our Southern neighbors and do not think it is necessary to build barriers. Perhaps you can't understand that."

That's assuming I'm for a wall.

The wall discussion is a deep, long one. The reality is, I'm NOT for a wall. However, those in politics who are for doing nothing are typically for a North America Union. If you're going to discuss the border issue, then you must discuss the NAU, which is a big part of why you don't see Bush and his cronies doing anything about the border.

Ron Paul is well-aware of the NAU and feels that being for a wall will prevent the globalists from getting their wishes.

For your info, I'm not in agreement on him with this strategy, but I applaud him for taking a stand against the NAU and the NWO crowd.

I'm glad you are spreading the 9/11 Truth and that you are very active. We choose different paths, neither are "wrong" or a waste of time. We're on the same side here. You're right, the fighting is a waste of both of our times so be happy for me that I am doing something, and I will be happy for you as well. Deal?

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

Looks like you're waiting for the perfect candidate.

So will you be voting when JEEEEESUS comes back?

The immigration thing isn't about racism, it's about the North American Union and national sovereignty.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

Yes, I am just waiting for

Yes, I am just waiting for Jesus to come back...I really just can't wait for this miraculous event so that I can vote again.
Thanks for the suggestion...it's pure genius.

Was my sarcasm not thick enough?

Seriously though, no politician is every going to agree with 100% of your agenda. Voting for a representative will always entail compromise. People are like "Yeah, Ron Paul is awesome on 90% of the issues, and he just might be able to help save us from the Fourth Reich, but he's not going to enforce federal law over the states on the abortion issue, so I can't vote for him."

This is ridiculous idealism. One fucking issue and we throw the baby out with the bathwater. And look at the alternatives we're left with...
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

Ok build some walls and take

Ok build some walls and take away a woman's right to privacy...
And tell everyone you will be able dissolve the IRS and the Fedreal Reserve Bank.
Give me a break.

Blah, Blah, Blah....

I'll sit here tight, waiting for Jesus. You do whatever you need to do.

What kind of logic is that?

I never said abortion would be illegal in every other state besides CA.
Of course that is up to the states. If you live in a state that decides to make abortion illegal, and this may affect you, then yes you can move. But do you realize how few people this would affect?

Do you realize Ron Paul is against the NWO, and all the other candidates are working for it? You keep repeating the propaganda, ron paul has no chance, but who does in your view?

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

Still no comment on the

Still no comment on the wall....
Damn, you must be a politician, you are quite good at dodging questions.

What's with your obsession with the wall?

Why can't you answer me and tell me what your plans are?

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

move?? youre kidding me..

maybe you should reread what elmo wrote, moron..

how about this, once we get hitler out we should put one of his party members in his place, sound good???

realist, are you for building a wall on the mexico boarder???

Moron?

Did you read my post? Since you're down to calling me names, apparently you wish to remain ignorant.

I said abortion only affects a tiny percentage of the population while war affects everyone. And abortion would NOT be illegal under Ron Paul, despite what the propagandists would have you believe.

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

Bullshit.

You need to take off your blinders when it comes to bodily sovereignty, "realist." Even if it WAS just a matter of the right to abortion, it affects everyone who might be involved in a pregnancy. Is that a tiny percentage?

And BTW, regarding the Wall -- doncha all think that this may be used as a wall to keep Americans IN as well as a wall to keep all those scary brown people out? I thought even Alex Jones recognized this. Very bad idea.

Stop right there

I never said I was for a wall, nor did I say I agreed with Ron Paul's stance on abortion. Now quit lying about what I'm saying because all that is is a straw man argument.

I'm comparing the weight of issues.

To me, ending the war comes in at #1.
Abortion is important but it comes in WAY down the list of priorities.
I'm NOT for building a wall, despite what you are saying I believe in, however, at least Ron Paul has a border plan unlike Bush and the other candidates, who want a North America Union.

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

If you knew anything about Ron Paul

You would know that he rails against Bush and has far less in common with Bush than the leading democrats. Read up. Forget about the phony left/right, republican/demcrat bullshit, it's over.

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

I'm not going to argue with you...

...on the right to life issue until you answer one simple question for me.

What was the question before the court that resulted in the decision rendered in Roe v. Wade?

Dollars to donuts or condoms to IUDs says you haven't got a clue. But, I'll give you a hint:

14

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

Everything you say is true......

and that is why he will not be allowed anywhere near the office of POTUS........EVER.

It's not going to happen. I realize you are one of the good guys -- I believe the same things you do -- but the idea that Ron Paul is going to get elected and save us is, in a word, childish.

You see what happened in 2000 and 2004. You see that this system allows the peasants to 'vote' for one of two masters that have been pre-screened and pre-selected for us by the owners of this country. You see that the state/corporate media has worked tirelessly to supress and obfuscate the truth about the events of 9-11 and the bogus nature of the world wide war on terrorism that was spawned by that false flag operation.

Yet somehow..............somehow..........you think that this system is going to allow a man that has sworn to destroy it, run it.

Hahahahahahahahah.

Like I said.......childish. If you are hoping this happens, I can understand that. If you are expecting this to happen, I pity you. If you are actually depending on this to happen, I just can't respect you.

Wake up now!

I usually agree with you, st8nme

But this is unintelligent, defeatist BS.

Don't you realize that there is a strategic benefit to keeping Ron Paul in the race as long as possible? Don't you realize that if enough people get behind him, WE ACTUALLY MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET HIM INTO THE WHITE HOUSE??? If RP gains much more support, the PTB are going to have to expose themselves BIG-TIME in order to squash him. More people will see the man behind the curtain. Plus, Ron's message needs to be heard by as many people as possible.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

Nope..

There is no doubt that keeping Ron Paul in the race as long as possible is a very, very, good thing. He tells the truth and that is why there have been (even at this early stage) hours upon hours of strategy meetings to find a way to get him out of the race as quickly and as quietly as possible.

The longer he stays in and keeps talking the better for everyone. As many people as possible need to hear his message. Oh, I am so with you ........and how.

"WE ACTUALLY MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET HIM INTO THE WHITE HOUSE"

This, however, is where we part company. I am not a defeatist. I am a realist. Ron Paul will never be allowed to become president. Hell, there is no way that he would ever be allowed to become a Senator. Ron himself knows this and has himself said it on more than one occasion.

You don't know anything about me. I have been supporting Ron Paul and MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more importantly his pro-freedom (anti-state), pro-peace (anti-war) pro-market (anti-corporatism) message for many, many, years. I believe sincerely that if a president has to be elected, Ron Paul is easily the best candidate available and it's not even close.

My point is that it is a waste of valuable energy trying to work within this system in order to get Ron Paul elected. If you absolute have to back a horse in an illegitimate race, by all means, RP is the horse to back.

I choose to use my freedom differently. I disagree that I am a defeatist. I will never stop until I'm dead.

I can deal with that.

Look, I'm not under any illusions about the legitimacy of the electoral process either. I just think if we've got any spare energy to throw in that direction, we should do so. And isn't that one of the things we're fighting for anyway? A legitimate government that bends to the will of the people? Restoring democratic elecitons or putting a smarter, more robust system in place is a good thing.

And you agree that it is beneficial to keep him in the race as long as possible, yet you're telling everyone "Get real, he'll never win". Mixed message much?
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

I really don't see it as a mixed message....

but I do think that I did a poor job of articulating my message.

As I said above, I think we can agree that it is very important to spread the message that RP is trying to get out. I will keep doing that regardless of the fate of Mr. Paul's candidacy.

st8nme sed...

I choose to use my freedom differently.

Enlighten us please, oh great realistic one.

While I agree that there is a very real possibility that THEY will kill RP, it will not go as smoothly as THEIR previous assassinations. And, if it does happen, it could very well be the last one that THEY ever pull off.

As far as working WITHIN the system, the only way RP could be elected anyway is if the electors to the Electoral College do their duty to their electorate rather than follow a political party's orders.

No Legal Requirement
Electors in these States are not bound by State Law to cast their vote for a specific candidate:
ARIZONA - 10 Electoral Votes
ARKANSAS - 6 Electoral Votes
DELAWARE - 3 Electoral Votes
GEORGIA - 15 Electoral Votes
IDAHO - 4 Electoral Votes
ILLINOIS - 21 Electoral Votes
INDIANA - 11 Electoral Votes
IOWA - 7 Electoral Votes
KANSAS - 6 Electoral Votes
KENTUCKY - 8 Electoral Votes
LOUISIANA - 9 Electoral Votes
MINNESOTA - 10 Electoral Votes
MISSOURI - 11 Electoral Votes
NEW HAMPSHIRE - 4 Electoral Votes
NEW JERSEY - 15 Electoral Votes
NEW YORK - 31 Electoral Votes
NORTH DAKOTA - 3 Electoral Votes
PENNSYLVANIA - 21 Electoral Votes
RHODE ISLAND - 4 Electoral Votes
SOUTH DAKOTA - 3 Electoral Votes
TENNESSEE - 11 Electoral Votes
TEXAS - 34 Electoral Votes
UTAH - 5 Electoral Votes
WEST VIRGINIA - 5 Electoral Votes

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/laws.html

For what it's worth, these unbound electors represent 230 of the 270 votes needed to win.

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

Geesh, your post just drips with sincerity....

I choose not to legitimize an illegitimate system by participating in it.

In my opinion, those (non-connected, non-multimillionares) who support candidates and participate in the fraud of national elections are nothing more than useful idiots. If they expect their efforts to result in any meaningful change in their own lives or the lives of any one they know, they are dupes being used to legitimize the charade.

This is a hard idea for many to accept. Especially those that have been educated "American style." The notion that "the people" control their own destinies through the ballot box has been hard wired into their brains during the course of many years of indoctrination.

If one can step back and answer the simple question: how much of my life is really under my control? The myth disapears like smoke. The average American must work and approximately 50% of his income is immediately stolen from him before he ever sees it by federal, state, and various other taxes. Does he have any meaningful say in how his money is spent? Inflation of the currency by the Fed. has steadily erroded (stolen) his savings. The dollar has lost 95%+ of its purchasing power since the inception of the Fed. Did the average person have any say at all in this matter? How much control did you have over NAFTA, GATT? How much over the North American Union?

The overarching policies that control your life and that will control the lives of your children and their children have been designed and implemented by people unaccountable to any voter.

But by all means, if Joe Blow candidate opposes flag burning, spend your time and money supporting him. Land of the free, baby.....................

And why should I not be sarcastic?

In a previous post, you called me a child.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/9447#comment-151516

because I called bullshit on the defeatist attitudes expressed by others. You claim that something can be done by individuals acting outside of the political system but, as of yet, haven't bothered to show what, how, or why.

And, you still haven't directly responded to my query as to how you choose to use your freedom differently. I don't disagree with you on the matter of lack of control over our lives you provided in the examples above. What I disagre with you on is how acting outside the system alone can be more effective than acting inside alone or acting both inside and outside simultaneously.

I believe that we have this one last opportunity to try and reign in a government that is totally out of control before it would would take violent revolution to do so. Therefore, we must use all means at our disposal. I don't belive that we are limited to the ballot box. And, as far as boxes go, it has been said that there are four to be used in the defense of Liberty:

soap box
ballot box
jury box
cartridge box

And they should be used in that order.

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

First,

I apologize for resorting to name calling. It was wrong and I will not do it again. I have tried to edit that post to delete my ad hominem nonsense but for some reason it only allows me to reply. (?)

Second, see my post below with respect to Étienne de la Boétie's Discourse on Voluntary Servitude. This is how I spend my time.

I believe sincerely that this is the only thing that will work.

With respect to the cartridge box, I own an arsenal but if it ever comes to that, we've already lost, my friend.

Still the defeatest?

I don't have a problem with the name calling, if the shoe fits. However, you tried to put a shoe on me that was way too small.

"With respect to the cartridge box, I own an arsenal but if it ever comes to that, we've already lost, my friend.

Tell it to those at Trenton on December 24, 1776.

Didn't Boétie primarily have democracies in mind when writing:

"The truth is that people are enslaved or tyrannized through their own cooperation and their own initiative in, not just cooperating, but furthering the ruler’s goals in order to acquire power and wealth by sharing in the spoils.'

The destruction of all great democracies has come fom the people learning how to vote for themselves the largess of of what they allow government to steal. Though it has certain characteristics of a democracy, we are supposed to be a Constitutional republic with rule by written law and not by the whim of men. And, it is true that it is We The People who have allowed a few to subvert our form of government and transform it into something more akin to a democracy. And the brainwashing continues whenever the filth uses the word "democracy" to describe the government we are suppposed to have. And those few have added many more tools to their toolbox to use against us, manipulating us to blindly trust and accept their shackles.

As evidence, most Americans have never read a single word of tax law. And yet, they will assure you that we are all liable to pay an unapportioned direct tax on our labor in exchange for renumeration (mostly in the form of federal reserve notes). And even if you show them the law itself to prove that the laws are being fraudulently misapplied against them, they will shrug and maintain that it really doesn't matter because they (the IRS) have guns will put you in prison. Amazing that they even believe this considering that it is juries of their own peers who actually are the ones who vote to convict, slamming the iron doors shut.

A relative handful of men and women do indeed wield sufficient political power to efficiently force and compel the people to obey, or else. They have effectively brainwashed the populus into believing that they actually have all of the power and the people possess none. We have been trained to be a nation of wimps and defeatists. And these creatures will do everything possible in order to sustain their power. And that is the reason that we should be doing everything possible to stop them. Pretending that you are invisible won't do it and is cowardly, undeserving of any respect.

"If enough people would realize this, and refuse to cooperate in their own subjugation, la Boétie argued, the ruler’s authority would simply collapse; tyranny would end without bloodshed. "

I agree. But this is most likely doomed to failure without someone capable to lead, as in Ghandi and MLK. Here's a short list. See anyone possibly fitting the bill?

Clinton
Romney
Giuliani
Thompson
Gingrich
Obama
Edwards
Paul

Skipping all of the methods of subjugation and control tyrants and despots employ, we find that

"... the main foundation and support of the ruler’s authority, la Boétie claimed, was those who aligned themselves with the ruler and eagerly furthered the ruler’s goals in order to reap the benefits of participating in the ruler’s scheme, the underlings who would align themselves with those people, and so on, establishing an extended chain of fealty based on sharing the spoils of subjugation and exploitation.

Ron Paul's scheme is to restore a government that respects the bounds of the Constitution and roll back the unconstitutional untrusion on our Liberties. I'm support Ron Paul because I'm ready to reap the benefits of his scheme and convince any underlingsto join with us so the we all may ultimately share the spoils of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Hapiness.

I wholeheartedly support the use of non-violent resistance to those factions who obviously desire nothing less than subjugation and exploitation. However, that only wages war on one front. This one can't be won without fighting on multiple fronts.

To those who who think that you can't fight city hall, get out of the way, or we will fight it while standing on your empty heads.

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)

Sorry, gotta repeat that.

"To those who who think that you can't fight city hall, get out of the way, or we will fight it while standing on your empty heads."

Hell yeahyer!!!
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

No one is saying "you can't fight city hall"...

You certainly can. What's more - -you can win.

What I am saying is that you can't fight city hall by joining city hall. You cannot fight against an illigitimate government by participating in, and thus legitimizing it. That course is, in fact, what every tyranny wishes you to do.

It is a very simple concept. People who don't understand it are people who, for whatever reason, do not understand that there is a difference between the state and civil society. Dicktater thinks that resistance and non-cooperation with an illegitimate government is doomed to fail without somekind of official "leader". He cannot possibly imagine a world without the state. He and those like him are the real defeatists because they have given up on the idea of people living together non-coercively. They have surrendered to violence and are relying on the violence of the state to solve their problems.

He cites the revolutionary war in support of armed resistance without recognizing that any new state founded on violence will have to resort to violence to sustain itself. Mere years after the founders won their independence from Britain, President Washington sent 13,000 soldiers to force frontier settlers to pay the whiskey tax -- some freedom!

Violence creates a never ending cycle of violence. The state can ONLY exist by employing violence. If you choose to support and participate in such a system you are choosing to live by violence. It is as simple as that.

I agree that violnce begets violence.

But there's one problem you're overlooking. There are certain factions within our society who will use any means necessary to come to power or to maintain and expand their power. They have always employed these methods, and they always will. Now, short of every single government thug and mafioso simultaneously, suddenly, and miraculously becoming "enlightened", and every single advanced research scientist and weapons designer suddenly growing a conscience, how exactly do you propose to end this cycle of violence? "Opting out", pacifism, or just running and hiding are only temporary solutions, because the control freaks will continue to advance their technologies and build their armies, and eventually they will come and round up the anarchists for exploitation, or push them off their land, or force cultural assimilation. These are dedicated, goal driven people with a shared belief system, and they're not going to stop. EVER.

Look, man (or woman), I practice Tai Chi and I meditate... and stuff. I have an intimate understanding of the idea that you don't use force against force. This concept applies quite well to individual combat, or to individual interpersonal relationships, but on a global scale??? How do you "go around the force" on a global scale?
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

A different view on democracy

The destruction of all great democracies has come fom the people learning how to vote for themselves the largess of of what they allow government to steal.

The great democracies either lacked government entirely or were so participatory in nature than the word “government” would not have been properly descriptive. Representative democracy is obviously a farce. It didn’t work at the time of the “founding fathers”, it didn’t work in ancient Greece and it doesn’t work now.

we are supposed to be a Constitutional republic with rule by written law and not by the whim of men.

On whose whim are laws enacted? Aliens? On whose whim has the bill of rights been trampled upon almost without pause since the founding of the United States itself? On whose whim was written the first sedition act? On whose whim was Fred Hampton murdered?

"any judicial system is going to exist in the context of economic institutions. If there are gross inequalities of power in the economic and social domains, one has to imagine society as strangely compartmentalised in order to believe that those inequalities will fail to reflect themselves in the judicial and legal domain, and that the economically powerful will be unable to manipulate the legal and judicial system to their advantage. To abstract from such influences of context, and then consider the merits of an abstract judicial system. . . is to follow a method that is not likely to take us far. This, by the way, is a criticism that applies. . .to any theory that relies on a rule of law to override the tendencies inherent in a given social and economic system" (Weick)

Laws: We know what they are, and what they are worth! They are spider webs for the rich and mighty, steel chains for the poor and weak, fishing nets in the hands of the government. ~Pierre Joseph Proudhon, quoted in The Match!

transform it into something more akin to a democracy.

America has never been a “democracy” but a plutocracy. It is nothing short of farcical to suggest that your average American is the “ruler” of the institutions in his or her society. If regular working people had any say in the matter I’m pretty sure Wall Mart would be gone like yesterday. Indeed I'm pretty sure that all corporations -- not just the Fed -- would have dismantled a long time ago.

whenever the filth uses the word "democracy" to describe the government we are suppposed to have.

Most people like the idea of democracy. Elites – whether Hitler, Stalin, Churchill or Bush – most certainly do not. Hitler spent more time railing against democracy than communism. Yet people like the idea that they can control their own destinies. So elites use the term often. Doesn’t mean it exists in our political institutions, any more than honor and integrity.

I agree that representative “democracy” is bound to be a catastrophe in a large centralized state with gross disparities of capital, hence our current position. Given the governmental system It couldn't have happened any other way.

”[i]n a strongly centralised state, the situation is entirely reversed and the best system of representation can do nothing to change that. The representatives of a certain district may have the overwhelming majority of a certain district on his [or her] side, but in the legislative assembly of the central state, he [or she] will remain in the minority, for it lies in the nature of things that in such a body not the intellectually most active but the most backward districts represent the majority. Since the individual district has indeed the right to give expression of its opinion, but can effect no changes without the consent of the central government, the most progressive districts will be condemned to stagnate while the most backward districts will set the norm.” [Rudolph Rocker, Anarcho-Syndicalism]

This was inevitable from the moment Madison and co. established the Federal government. They did so in order to protect “the minority of the opulent”. Without a strong centralized state a more equitable and democratic federation could have formed, which indeed was the goal of the anti-federalists at the time, and indeed was Madison’s worst nightmare.

As evidence, most Americans have never read a single word of tax law.

I don’t I don’t blame them. As Bob Black wrote:

The published availability of the vast mass of American statutory, regulatory and case law makes a mockery of the Director’s childish faith in the liberatory power of the Logo, the Word revealed. There are just too damned many words. Every San forager knows all the rules of his society. No North American or European, not even the most learned lawyer, knows one-tenth of one percent of the rules of his society. Caligula, one of the more over-the-top degenerate Roman emperors, was criticized for enforcing new tax laws without previously publicizing them: "At last he acceded to the urgent popular demand, by posting the regulations up, but in an awkwardly cramped spot and written so small that no one could take a copy." For all practical purposes, this is the situation of the ordinary modern citizen with respect to the law. The lawyer is not much better off. In the words of an unusually candid Federal judge: "Any competent lawyer, during any rainy Sunday afternoon, could prepare a list of hundreds of comparatively simple legal questions to which any other equally competent lawyer would scarcely venture to give unequivocal answers." As a more than usually competent lawyer, albeit out of practice, I fully agree.

We have been trained to be a nation of wimps and defeatists. And these creatures will do everything possible in order to sustain their power.

I agree, and these creatures will continue to sustain their power so long as real, participatory democracy is held in check.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

See my response to CONCIOUSNESS above....

You either haven't read Boétie or you didn't understand what you read. Relying on Ron Paul to "restore a government" is not the answer in my opinion.

Best of luck to you.

you're a defeatist

Do you also believe 9/11 truth will never come out?
Why bother with any of this?

We have to fight on. What you're saying is we should just throw our hands up and surrender to the NWO. If we all believe that we should give up supporting Ron Paul because he "has no chance", then I can gaurandamntee you that we won't EVER expose the truth about 9/11.

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

Reading is fundamental...

I'm not saying that at all.

As far as 9/11 truth ......it's already out. It's been out for years.

Has it made a difference?

So what should we do

Give up all of this and accept the new world order?

Vote democrat and maybe by some miracle Hillary breaks from the elites and produces a new investigation?

I'm not being sarcastic, I truly want to know what your solution is.

For me it's doing everything. Yes we all know about stolen elections and assassinations, etc. But I feel like you're just throwing up your hands and saying "it's all useless".

What's left?

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

No, good sir or madam......

If you have read any of my previous posts I advocate acting free. This is a simple statement that includes a lot. First it means telling the truth. Second it means not cooperating with evil on any level. With respect to the state it means laughing at it, telling the truth about it, resisting and/or ignoring it to the extent that you can. Don't ask anything from it. Don't take anything from it. Don't send your children to its schools. Don't fund its wars. Don't murder for it. Don't steal for it. Don't support its prison system etc., ignore and refuse to obey any law that violates fundamental human rights..........

Most importantly, do what you think is right regardless of whether it is sanctioned by some state authority or not.

The following is from a Jeff Snyder essay:

"In 1548, a French law student named Étienne de la Boétie wrote an essay titled "Discourse on Voluntary Servitude, or, Against the One". La Boétie made the counterintuitive and revolutionary discovery that governments do not rule by force of arms. The handful of men and women who wield ultimate political power do not and cannot possess sufficient force to compel the people to obey them or, more accurately, cannot possibly compel their subjects to do everything that is necessary in order to sustain their power. The truth is that people are enslaved or tyrannized through their own cooperation and their own initiative in, not just cooperating, but furthering the ruler’s goals in order to acquire power and wealth by sharing in the spoils. If enough people would realize this, and refuse to cooperate in their own subjugation, la Boétie argued, the ruler’s authority would simply collapse; tyranny would end without bloodshed. So far as I am aware, la Boétie’s essay is the first call for noncooperation and civil disobedience, and first explanation of why it can work." (Snyder's Full Essay -- http://www.lewrockwell.com/snyder/snyder11.html).

Read it (Boetie's Discourse). It's fantastic. This is what I intend to do. Convince/persuade enough people to ignore the state and watch it collapse under its own weight. It can happen. It has happened (See USSR). It needs to happen here.

What, specifically, do you think we should do?

If we are 9/11 Truthers, or just want to end the NWO's reign of power, what do you propose that we DO? I'm not asking for generalities or things that we should NOT do, I want to know your plan.

"Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy."
-Ron Paul

Here's my plan

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=10624

Call it "the awakening", a social revolution who's aim and purpose is to "come to power" in every sphere of influence and power in the United States, employing 9/11truth as the point of leverage, since it is evocative of a re-examination of the system and historical learning.

Again, I repeat, we need to figure out how to form a new third party, capable of creating a synthesis between the 9/11 truth movement, the anti-war movement, and the "Patriot" movement in general, along with every American who's sick of being bound by the either/or two party left/right system. Such a party would be a moderate middle America party, with strong conservative values founded squarely on the Declaration of Independance, the Constitution and Bill of Rights. It's aim would be to split the middle and "come to power". A good name I think for it would be the "Progressive Conservative Party".

It would be "like a storekeeper, who brings forth from his stores, both something old and something new."

An Idea Whose Time Has Come (WATCH IT)
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=6015291679758430958&q=An+idea+who...
____________________________
On the 11th day, of every month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nRs8cu5Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftruthaction...

Wow..

I told you my plan. I don't understand how it could be any more specific. You are free. I cannot tell you what to do, and if I somehow could, I would not want to. You have to decide that for yourself.

If you need to follow somebody who has a concrete set of directives for you, then find such a person and do that. Just know that if that person is a government authority, you have chosen to rely on violence to solve your problems. Best of luck.

I'm down with this.

But I don't think it's that simple. It's going to take a lot of positive action as well, not just negative (in-)action. We have to opt-out, but also find ways to actively dismantle the beast.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine

Exactly.

No one here still seems to understand that physical resistance (as non-violent as possible) will probably become our last resort of action to take against this "beast" which will not go down without a long, drawn out struggle.

We must, first of all, formulate a plan to get 9/11 truth to the masses. This will encompass a directive to FORCE the corporate media into exposing the issue. They will not do it unless physically motivated to. Of course this will inevitably involve physical activism and civil disobedience. Yes, that means getting up off our 9/11 computer-truth butts and taking our movement into the streets...anti-vietnam war style.

Surround corporate media buildings. Blockade their nearby street intersections. Stage sit-ins and tent-cities in neighboring parks and public plazas. Become PHYSICAL activists. And Yes we will have to deal with the police, however our message is so "sensitive" that I feel the police (at least initially) won't excercise too much violence against us.

I'm sorry to rain on all your internet fun, but the time will soon come when we'll have to all meet eachother face to face. In person. On the streets. I look forward to putting faces to your names!

But go ahead...ignore this message and keep talking about Ron Paul will save us.

And go ahead...vote this down because I'm sounding so insensitive.

See you in the streets!

Ron Paul isn't trying to "save us"

Ron Paul just wants to make it easier for us to save ourselves.

Maybe there's a different way to bring about 9/11 justice than via the corporate controlled mass media. Our numbers are growing large. Depending on the poll, we have anywhere from a fifth to perhaps half of the population. That's only 1-4 sheeple per "truther". I think this is a ratio we can deal with, one-on-one, no matter what the lamestream media does.

Want to figure out 9/11? Ponder the 9/11 "Mineta Stone"

Yes, "narrowcasting"

Is going to take us the rest of the way. I find it interesting how Fred Thompson recently weighed in against Harry Reid in the context of our movement.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/19/thompson-reid

It's fast becoming a socio-political reality which cannot be ignored.

The movement started out with about 1-2000 people. My how we've magnified and multiplied ourselves, since 2002.

Goes to show how the individual working together with other like minded, and rationally minded people, can and does really make a profound impact.
____________________________
On the 11th day, of every month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nRs8cu5Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftruthaction...

Indeed....

"Goes to show how the individual working together with other like minded, and rationally minded people, can and does really make a profound impact."

People voluntarily working together (non-coercively) is the only thing that will have a lasting, positive effect. Keep it up!

Absolutely.

Keep telling the truth. Keep challenging authorities. Keep challenging the corporate media. Write. Speak. Discuss these issues with as many people as possible. Be friendly. Be positive. Be everything the state is not. Organize.

Do all these things and anything more that occurs to you without asking permission or seeking approval from any political authority.

In a word, live like you are free.

<<unrelated>> BBC petition for WTC7 footage only 4200 signatures

Ron Paul

Ron Paul is:
1) Against the Federal Reserve
2) Against the Income Tax
3) Against all foreign wars
4) Against the military/industrial complex and "militarism"
5) Against special interest groups

Also, Ron Paul is the ONLY Republican who can beat Hillary, who is a CFR puppet.

The only choices in this election are either:
1) Ron Paul
or
2) No vote at all

Check Ron Paul out on Google video and get to know him.
He is for liberty, freedom, truth, and the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Wake up! Ron Paul is the opportunity of a lifetime.

Stop giving attention to the "no plane theories" and other disinfo agents who are sabotaging this movement,, either by sheer stupidity or intentionally as government moles.

Choose your battles

I see a good deal of people here seeming to lose support for Ron Paul simply because he's not answering EXACTLY how you want him to answer, in regards to 9/11. I understand that 9/11 is a big issue for many of us, including myself, but there are other huge issues out there as well... and bottom line is, whether you like it or not, you can't fight all of them at once... it just can't be done successfully. For instance, before we can even proceed with a hardcore, independent investigation into the many questions that have been raised in regards to 9/11 we first need to get rid of some of the legislature that has been introduced since then, or we'll continue to face roadblocks along the way. Ron Paul is the man to start this process, he has said on several occasions that he is indeed in support of a new, independent investigation around 9/11... He's already been criticized for being affiliated with 9/11 Truthers... I think he's just playing his cards wisely at this point. I mean we are still in the middle of a war where we're losing 1,000 American lives per year, not to mention the enormous number of Iraqi lives that are being lost as well. We're on the brink of war with Iran as well, our foreign policy is literally putting us all at risk at this point and that, in my opinion, is the very first thing that needs to be addressed, even before 9/11. I'm sorry if you disagree, but if our foreign policy is not changed very soon, we will be fighting a war on several fronts... and thus lose more lives... and thus be in more danger.... and thus continue to be hated by the rest of the world... and thus bring us closer to the North American Union... and so on and so forth.

Ron Paul wants to change our foreign policy... no more world-policing that breeds hate and anti-americanism, no more involvement in other nation's affairs unless they need our aid, no more nation building.

Ron Paul wants to abolish the Federal Reserve, the IRS and the Federal Income Tax... All of which are abominations to the Constitution and our nation.

These are top issues for me, along with a new 9/11 investigation and criminal charges against those who are truly responsible and negligent. But we just need to pick our battles I think, sure we can continue to spread the word, and be activists about 9/11, but I think there are some of us, even in this very thread who are not giving Ron Paul the chance he needs just because he didn't say the exact words you may have wanted to hear. In any case, he's the best possible candidate I have seen in a long time, and there is much more about him too, a sense of honesty, decency and even humility. He seems genuine and truly inspires, which is more than I can say for any Presidential candidate I have seen since I've been able to vote... He needs all the support he can get at this point in time, so don't turn your back on him over something so small.