Loose Change Press Release: Stop Threatening Free Speech, Release Date for Final Cut
A Statement From Louder Than Words and MercuryMedia
We write to you as members of ‘Patriots Question 9/11’ and the producers of Loose Change 2 and Loose Change Final Cut with a message to fellow ‘truthers’ and interested media entities, that we will never submit to the demonic forces that seek to silence us.
Over the last few weeks a number of ‘newsworthy’ individuals and organizations connected with Loose Change and the 9/11 truth movement have been subjected to a campaign of vicious intimidation. The intimidators include presenters on Rupert Murdoch’s Fox, ‘Fair and Balanced’ News, disgraced former US senate majority leader Tom ‘Hot Tub’ Delay, Michele ‘put every Muslim in a concentration camp’ Malkin and Nick ‘Virgin, I promise you PR poison’ Rizutto.
Their targets: Mark Cuban’s 29/29 entertainment group and his NBA team the Dallas Mavericks; Richard Branson’s Virgin Atlantic; actor Charlie Sheen; and talk-show host Rosie O’Donnell. Their alleged crime is associating themselves or their companies with Loose Change and suggesting that people should be free to decide for themselves about 9/11 truth.
We wholeheartedly condemn the actions of the disgraceful rabble that are attacking our supporters, and put them on notice of our continued resolve to expose the biggest hoax in history.
Furthermore, we believe that in attracting the vilification of those who clearly don’t respect the 1st amendment of the US constitution means we have reached a point in our campaign from which there is no turning back. 400 leading professors, pilots, physicists, politicians, law enforcement officials, 9/11 victim’s families are all fighting for 9/11 truth. Crucially according to respected pollsters, ‘Zogby’ over 42% of the American population, now believe that there has been a cover up over 9/11. This is translating into practical problems for the US administration, which is now finding it difficult to recruit potential jurors in trials of terrorist suspects because so many ordinary people now no longer believe the official story.
We will release our new film Loose Change Final Cut on the weekend preceding September 11th 2007, with screenings planned in key cities in the United States. Where we can’t release theatrically we will release online through pay-per-view. Already distributors in the UK, Australia, Norway, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, Sweden, France, Finland, Italy, and Japan are clamouring for rights to show the film in movie theatres and television stations are making bids to show the film soon after theatrical release.
To whet your appetites check out the one-minute teaser from the new film Loose Change Final Cut. The evidence we have collated for the movie has been fact-checked for accuracy by Dr. David Ray Griffin, and our message, that the official story of 9/11 cannot be true, will resonate around the world.
The attacks on our supporters in the entertainment business have only emboldened us. We know we are right, not just because of our evidence but because so much effort is going into frightening and silencing those that like us, dare to ask questions and demand answers about what really happened on that fateful day. Like Rosa Parks, Simon Wiesenthal, Winston Churchill, and Nelson Mandela, we will not veer from our course and we will not shut up. We will confront our enemies with the truth that they fear and counter the evil that they spout. This truth will shatter the illusion of the war on terror, and will expose the deceit of the incumbent American administration.
Be strong fellow ‘truthers’, the battles we have fought are just a foretaste of what is to come. We have not reached the end, not even the beginning of the end but perhaps the end of the beginning – the tipping point from which the momentum for 9/11 truth is gaining pace, sure in the knowledge that we have morality on our side. They can attack some of us, but they can’t attack all of us. They can smear us, they can intimidate us, but for each person they strike, one hundred more are there to take their place.
None of us chose 9/11 as our cause; it chose us. We didn’t want to believe the hoax of 9/11 but our heads and our hearts told us; that the official story just didn’t add up; that the laws of physics can’t lie; that 300 degree celsius fires can’t melt steel; that Building Seven, that 47 story steel and concrete edifice couldn’t just implode suddenly at 5.20PM on the afternoon of 11th September; and the BBC couldn’t have predicted and announced its implosion 20 minutes before it happened, unless forewarned.
Our movement has representatives from every country, every religion, every political strand, every income group, millions of us, all united in our conviction that the official story of 9/11 cannot be true. Our number is growing exponentially each day, as the clarity of our message gradually shines through - the fog of war promising to lift, with the dawn of the truth and a new day. We will expose the crime that was 9/11. We will prevail.
Tim Sparke, Dylan Avery, Korey Rowe, Jason Bermas
MercuryMedia Enquiries: 44 20 7221 7221
Tsparke@mercurymedia.org
Louder Than Words Enquiries: 1-607-267-4456
korey@loosechange911.com
- Arabesque's blog
- Login to post comments
Watch Teaser for the 'Final Cut' Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxcUzOTmKA
“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."
I disagree Wolf
They are a vital key to this movement. Whether you believe they have been compromised or not, it doesnt change their message. The truth is a strong componant of everyones life. They support Truth and spreading the truth. There can not be a more strongr and noble cause.
a vital key?
hmmm explain? you mean 9/11 truth depends on them? I'm confused.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
no, he probably means that
no, he probably means that LC played a huge role in waking up scores of people, despite it being "hardcore disinfo" to some. i could be wrong though.....
hahaha, i dont know if thats
hahaha, i dont know if thats jealousy or genuine but what do you have against ATV's and bong hits? hahaha. you some kind of puritan? or are you a super -christian like John Conner? say no to drugs right wolf!!!
cmon Chris--I hope that was sarcasm
or do you really think John Conner aka Mark Dice is a super Christian? I'm sorry to even have to ask, because I realize some people probably think he's extremely credible, but....
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
no, he just plays one on the
no, he just plays one on the internet,haha. i dont know if he really believes the religious crap he talks about, my guess would be no but it hardly matters to me. who thinks hes extremely credible? is it possible to promote his guerrila videos etc. and not think hes fully credible? or should 911blogger.com and others completely ignore everything he does because of his crackpot views on religion(genuine or not. again, why does it matter?)? if we start to micromanage everyone that contributes anything to 9/11 truth where does that leave us? shall we analyze your religious views now?
and when i say micromanaging
and when i say micromanaging i mean things like questioning if his religious views are genuine, not asking about funding of a documentary etc.
micromanager=control freak
Some people, like Real Truther seems to be, are control freaks-- they alway have an answer, and use their intellect to run circles around concepts, and put people down for their less than perfect understanding. This is how they get validation in the world.
Usually this is a cover for some emotional insecurity. Just because someone has a strong intellect doesn't necessarily mean they have their life together. You can sense this in RT's posts--this is an individual who is venting his personal anger by judgeing others as inferior.
JUDGE NOT!
Or not.
You certainly seem to have some strong opinions and in-depth analysis about RT. You just happen to be talking out of your ass. Where is RT judging others as inferior? Where is he asking to be validated? There's a lot of that on this board, but I don't see it coming from RT. He has reasonable, unpopular questions to ask and is secure enough to ask them, even though people like you then come along to pour on the hate.
fyi, i didnt vote you down.
fyi, i didnt vote you down.
i would be a hypocrite if i
i would be a hypocrite if i didnt call you on this buddy. now YOU are coming on way too strong with the accusations and assumptions there. i understand where you are coming from, really i do but you cant just go and do an amateur psycho-analysis on the guy based on some comments from a website. i dont know RT personally but i have been around him on this site for quite some time now and can only give you my personal opinion which is RT seems to be an honorable and honest person with very strong opinions from what i can tell. and im not just saying that because i tend to agree with about 90% of what he says while STRONGLY disagreeing with the other 10%(thats what happens when 2 strong-willed and highly opinionated people interact,haha) i think your first post made a great point though and its something that i have yet to see RT acknowledge while endlessly questioning motives which is what good LC has ALREADY done for spreading awareness about the absurdity of the official story. but thats a different argument for a different thread......
Suggestion:
Let's not start another flame war on the front page. This is a well written PR piece by Loose Change. Good job on that.
Although I do not agree with many of the things in Loose Change 2, I think it's wrong to suggest that they are doing things to hurt the movement intentionally. For goodness' sake, they got David Ray Griffin to fact check their movie! This should make it obvious whose side they’re on, and suggestions to the contrary seem like just sour grapes to me. People can make mistakes without being state-sponsored disinformation—and I’m saying this as someone who disagrees with a lot of what is said in loose change 2. Support the movement, and stop with the unnecessary negativity. No one is saying don't criticize them and others on this site--just do it in a civil manner. Although I may disagree with some of RT's points I don't agree with the way certain people have criticized him on the front page. Disagree in a polite manner so we don't have another flame war. People who are infighting on the front page can make everyone in the movement look bad.
“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."
Well I thought this was obvious:
Judy Wood is supposedly an academic. The members of loose change are young, 20 year old, non-academics. In DRG's case, I have never asserted that he is promoting deliberately misleading arguments intentionally. In the case of Wood, I usually try to avoid this issue as well by spending most of my energy showing why her arguments are misleading. In any case, I doubt you will find many people who believe that Wood is more reliable than LC.
touche
Good point - she's an academic.
Maybe Loose Change is much better now. All I remember is the gold heist theory. Overall they did a good job, particularly given their age and resources. [I watched it again and really like it -- the gold heist really stuck negatively in my mind, but the movie is really well done.] I agree with Real Truther below on the great thing Loose Change did in its time -- maybe they'll do it again. I don't see anything wrong with questioning them.
I'm not saying DRG is promoting misleading arguments intentionally. I'm saying he is promoting inconsistent arguments, and that this is inherently misleading..
being more reliable than Judy Wood
is, unfortunately for your argument, not all that uncommon. :) I agree of course--I showed my dad Loose Change but would never make him sit through anything by Judy Wood.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Why is this shill still
Why is this shill still here? Still pushing "no planes hit the WTC" disinfo "Ningen"?
I saw you...
Putting in a half-way decent argument for CD over there at Kos. Yet you often seem rather shill-ish around here. I wonder about you...
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Fooled you, didn't I?
Spending my time at Kos arguing this community's consensus opinion was just part of my insidious plan to gain trust here. My arguments were only half decent because I didn't really want to convince them.
Snark out. Who are you and DLBS to be questioning my motives? You've been here two weeks, and might want to read before making accusations. My operating presumption is that anyone who accuses someone else of being a shill is likely a shill sowing division, or might as well be. It serves no purpose.
The denial runs as deep here as at DailyKos. The arguments I hear in support of NIST's work on the planes are as ridiculous as the arguments I hear at Kos in support of NIST's "collapse" theory.
CD was proven, and fought vigorously in this movement, long before the Scholars for 9/11 Division arrived on the scene, by Jeff King, who was accused by DLBS of being a shill.
Stick around by all means
Stick around by all means and try and blend in with the rest of us, your disinfo m.o. is transparent to me. You’re trying to mix “no planes hit the Twin Towers” absurdity with deliberately agreeable comments, very see-through and I hope no ones falling for it anymore.
YOU come here and post "no
YOU come here and post "no planes hit the WTC" GARBAGE and you expect not to be rejected? And then you draw completely false and desperate comparisons to Dailykos in an attempt to plead for sympathy? This individual is a DISINFO CHARLATAN, the sooner “Disinfo in the Info Age” comes out and blasts this shit for good the better. GET OFF THIS SITE YOU DESPICABLE SHILL!
i thought that was a joke!
theres really people who believe no planes hit the wtc? wow.
i guess it takes all kinds. you know THATS going to give us more credibility. people certainly prefer wild speculation over balanced logic.
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Morgantown 9/11 Truth
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
It wasn't just on the Boob Tube
Ningen - I worked in Manhattan at that time, 8th Avenue and 15th Street. As part of a merger, I later moved my offices to 65 Broadway, three blocks south of the South Tower. All the employees who worked there, along with thousands of workers in the surrounding buildings were all in the streets and looking up when the second plane struck WTC 2. How can anyone believe that the planes were some sort of holographic fake? Did all these witnesses lie to me, or were they victims of some mass hallucination?
If you lived and worked in NYC, it wasn't all about what was being broadcast. I'm sorry, but the "No Planes" idea seems insane to me.
I could give you names...
...but what does that prove? Okay - My lead technician Felipe went outside because 65 Broadway vibrated from the explosion of the plane hitting WTC 1. He stood at the corner of Broadway and Trinity Place, looking up at the Towers. This is the exact view you get from the video of WTC 2 collapsing that was shot with Trinity Church in the lower right, the one where the turbidity cloud comes around the corner like a monster and chases them down Broadway. He stood there with my building manager and people I know from the first floor cafe/deli. They watched the second plane smack right into the south wall of WTC 2. I guess you could say they all agreed to make this up. I guess you could say I'm making it up.
I say it's logical to assume that of all those people in the street in lower Manhattan, Bowling Green and Battery Park City, a certain percentage would have been looking up at the Towers when WTC 2 was hit. If WTC 2 simply exploded and no one saw a plane, please do produce at least one eyewitness interview that attests to this. I have never heard on a single one. Everyone I've read who buys into the "No Planes" theory bases it on what they have reviewed on tape. You call say my words aren't backed up by evidence. Please show me that basic evidence of eyewitnesses in lower Manhattan claiming no planes, and I promise to look at that with fresh eyes.
You're getting there
Notarized affidavits would convince me that you are identifying real people that genuinely believe they say a plane impact the South Tower. That does not change the physics, Jersey Jay.
I' m not saying you or your co-workers made this up. It's not that simple.
But you're not getting there
As I asked above, please provide interviews and, even better, affadivits as you suggest from witnesses present in lower Manhattan who claim to have been looking right at the south face of WTC 2 when it exploded and also claim they did not see a large plane strike it at that moment.
Let's skip the affadivits, Ningen. Just show me one single person claiming that. There must be at least, at a minimum, one interview with one eyewitness from that area in NYC who claims they saw the explosion in WTC 2 and that there was absolutely no plane.
Just one. That's all I ask. I wasn't an eyewitness. I saw it live on CNN, which only showed the north face of WTC 2 blowing out. I didn't even know there was a plane for 15 minutes.
I understand I could well be a victim of this hoax, so please educate me, and you will have a convert on your side, seriously. Show me that one eyewitness.
I can't do that
There is this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8587298712435481780&pr=goog-sl&h...
But I have no idea if it is authentic - it may have scrubbed out something that really hit. I'm not offering this as proof.
There are several clips of people saying they saw explosions but no plane, but I have never read too much into these statements because it was not clear where the person was standing. I have not seen a statement like you reasonably request -- a person staring at the face where the plane supposedly impacted, and seeing an explosion but no plane. I still maintain that the video speaks for itself, along with the faked debris and lack of debris, and that this is sufficient to shift the burden of proof to those who claim that a plane hit.
its not no plane at the Pentagon!
most of the witnesses from the Pentagon were either employed by the military or USA Today and a couple of other reporters. also, this isnt a "no-plane" theory its a no Flight 77 theory. big difference than "tv fakery". and i agree, the gold heist thing should have been mentioned only in passing to add to the case but they presented it as one of the major motives. mistake. but in the end not a big deal.
round and round and round
round and round and round and round.........(im not falling for it Ningen)
I agree with most everything in Loose Change 2. Any errors
therein are insignificant & immaterial to the theme that 9/11 was clearly an inside job.
sigh... do I have to post links?
I have many times in the past stated that Loose Change should be given credit for the fact that for whatever reason it spread quickly and woke up a lot of people to questioning things. I have also in the past shared the fact that when Loose Change came out it was very inspiring because I as yet had not been able to get anyone I knew to take my emails and conversations seriously but when I screened LC it was the turning point for my friends and family to accept that I wasn't crazy. People either don't know of or don't remember the many times I've praised the film and the guys, or that I did my share of promoting the google video link on my person wherever I went.
What some people have trouble with is criticism of any kind, even that which is sugar coated with honest praise to the extent that it can be given. When anything gets put on a pedestal to the extent that Loose Change and the guys who made it have by some, it makes it difficult for anyone to say anything that may be perceived as negative. This is one of the main causes of groupthink, and groupthink has spelled death for a great many projects. I have a great deal of appreciation for those on this site who disagree with me, sometimes vehemently, on certain issues but who are big enough and secure enough to leave it at that and not afraid to agree with something I say when it makes sense. I'd like to think I try to live up to the same standard--making things personal is not only a sign of immaturity but also quite counterproductive. Sure there are some people who have mutually decided with me that we should avoid direct conversation because for whatever reason we are both convinced that the other is not operating in good faith. These things are bound to happen and any group that can't work around that is going to suffer as a result. The way this is done is by effecting a balance between civility and restraint on the one hand and tolerance for a certain degree of emotion and venting on the other.
To anyone who thinks I am an intellectual bully, all I can say is I hope you can work out whatever is causing you to be so insecure that you find me threatening in some way. I have always found that I can learn a lot more by engaging a person who is more intelligent or knoeledgeable on a subject than I, and sometimes that means suppressing the urge to accuse the person of being a know it all. I have found that many intelligent people will not even deign to have a serious conversation with someone they consider inferio--instead being all smiles and limiting the discussion to subjects they think the person can manage. That is what is meant by the soft bigotry of low expectations. As a puerto rican I have spent much of my life coming to terms with people's prejudices, arrogance, and snobbery. In a college where most kids were very well off and did not have to work to support themselves I spent my first year washing dishes for those children of privilege side by side with high-school educated puerto ricans.
I did not become a 9/11 truther to be part of an exclusive club or a fad or to be popular. I did it because 9/11 was the final slap in the face I was willing to take from the world. On behalf of those wrongly accused for the crimes and whose lives we have destroyed I finally kicked myself into action and have not stopped since that awakening. I am sorry if in the process of this struggle some people's feelings are hurt--I only hope that whatever bruised egos or perceived slights I leave in my wake can be forgiven in the name of those for whom we are struggling. What is happening is much bigger than Loose Change, and if Loose Change can't handle answering a few questions so be it. After having been bitten by one too many disinfo traps I refuse to accept anyone's expressed good intentions at face value, no matter how much peer pressure is brought to bear on me for the audacity of my independence of thought..
Long live the real truth movement.
-RT
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Very well said !
(and only a few spelling errors, LOL)
Right on, RT !
Everyone should print his comment out and post it on their wall.
I really look forward to meeting you in NYC in September. You'll be there, yes?
Long live true skepticism!
Long live the real truth movement!
Keep up the great work.
I hope that you and yours are well.
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
thanks LDub!
I prob won't be going to NY buty if you're ever in the boston area give me aheads up--would love to meet you.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
RT -
Why not come to NYC?
We need your sharp eyes and critical questioning at what will be an historic occasion.
If you choose not to come, perhaps I will take a side trip to Boston while I'm out there, but I'm really hoping to go directly from NYC to D.C. and camp out awhile with several hundred thousand friends.
Cheers!
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
LOL this is off topic but
LOL this is off topic but who remembers that kid who got busted for putting up a "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" sign, hahahahaha.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11767029/
That was great,
thank you! I only hope the next 4 months go by without a hitch. Not to mention the months to follow.
Good press release, guys
I hope that you will have new LCFC tee-shirts in a variety of colors and new LCFC stickers available 4 to 6 weeks ahead of the release date so we can get a massive buzz going for the film. Downloadable fliers would be good, too.
Who's going to NYC for 9/11/07?
That's the place to be, y'all.
Keep up the great work, take care of yourselves.
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
oh yea!
"Who's going to NYC for 9/11/07?"
im coming up from west virginia w/ as many folks as i can fit in the ride. ugh. i hate driving in ny
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Morgantown 9/11 Truth
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
I'LL GO!
I hope we can get a crowd like last year but not being a marked anniversary I am curious to see what the turnout will be. Plus, with the LC guys busy w/ the release, we'd have to really get some organization going quick if it is going to happen. We need to really get this discussion going so we can plan on it!
It's happening
There will be announcements soon. Plan to be there!
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
What about events in EVERY major city?
Why must everyone go to NYC to protest?
This year, why not make it a nation wide event..?
____________________________
On the 11th day, of every month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nRs8cu5Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftruthaction...
It IS a nationwide event!
It's the ELEVENTH of September!
Demonstrate everywhere!
We DO want as many people as possible to join us in NYC too.
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
Healthy paranoia
Given that anybody who is anybody in the 911 truth movement will be planning to be at the premiere of the LCFC in NY, won't this be too tempting a target for Cheney et al - a few Iranian passports in the rubble and two birds killed with one stone - 911 truth movement set back years and off we go to Iran - I suggest that the main men (eg DRG, Rodriguez, LC team, 911bloggers) should be encouraged to give the premiere a miss - perhaps give a recorded message to be played before the film - don't put all your eggs in one cinema - or me just being paranoid?
Anniversary would be conspicuous.
That would be another big coincidence, and get people suspicious. Another 9/11 on 9/11/07? And I think if there is another attack, the public is going to go bat-shit and throw everyone out of office. The incompetence thing is losing credibility, and after we've spent all this money on the "WARON"...
"We got a waron drugs, we got a waron poverty, we got a waron illiteracy, we got a waron AIDS, we got a waron terror... Now Bush wants to appoint a new 'War Czar'. Does that mean we're gonna have a waron war??"
Get your WARON, bitches.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
You may be right
Consciousness, but I don't think we can take that chance. Yorkshireman makes a very strong point here. Maybe there can be a "live telecast" where an audience can hear Mr. Griffin and others speak live from different locations. It's always wise to keep our movement united, but physically seperate during enormous events. I don't care about the date. The corporate spin machine will spin ANYTHING to look real, even if another attack happened on another 9/11.
Good luck to the LCFC team, do or die?
Good press release!
It is so good to know that Dr Griffin is overseaing the final cut.
I really think that something bad will happen this year to take our movement back to the dark ages as we are becoming a real theat the Neo-Cons survival. This ofcourse will back fire if enough people can become aware of the use of false flag operations and the general use of fear to manipulate the masses!
We must all start talking to every f#$%ing person we meet!
I'll be out again on the 11th! Get out there if you want to stay free!
Regards John
WE GOT TO TAKE THE POWER BACK!
Review by Griffin
I'm not sure how that resonates with the general public that is likely to be influenced by the rantings of O 'Reilly et al. Number One, Griffin is relatively unknown by the general public. Number Two, while we know that he has done a lot of research, his area of expertise does not add much to convincing the public that his vetting of the film makes it legit. Don't get me wrong, I think Griffin has done a lot for the movement. I just think that the impact of the film would be enhanced if they could say that it had been fact-checked by a wide range of experts in relevant fields.
Griffin has the respect of all the experts, that's my point!
He might not have any particular qualifications that relate to physics of 9/11 or be a celebrity, but he is considered here to present evidence without fault! Who better to tidy up the fantastic work of the Loose Change team.
Griffin has not to my knowledge ever taken a step back from the fight for truth and is an extremely cool operator, he is also the best known author in the world on 9/11!
Most of O'Liely's flock have already left the building and the ones that are left have an IQ so low they won't ever figure it out. The battle must be won in the minds of the conservative educated middle class. This is where Griffin kicks ass!!
He is credibility persoiffied!!
Sory but I fail to see your point! Please... enlighten me.....
Regards John
I'll be there...
Again.
"We are going to keep up this fight till the end, till the very end... They took it from the top to the bottom. We're gonna take it from the bottom to the top!" -Dan Wallace
Great press release!
Very strong words from the LC team! 9/11 Truth will prevail.
why pay-per-view?
Why pay-per-view on the web? That seems to go against the spirit of things.
I believe the LC "boys" are putting in 14 hour days, 7 days
a week, w/o pay. Why do you suggest they are trying to avoid a 9-5 job?
because depsite the fact
because depsite the fact that LC, perceived or real flaws and all, has caused huge numbers(theres no way of really knowing how many) of people to question 9/11 or even become 9/11 activists themselves(can you acknowledge that RT?), he thinks at some point it(or specifically Final Cut) will have the power to bring the movement down. he attributes the same kind of power to Alex Jones. i just dont see it. RT is a prolific mind and i respect what he has to say but i couldnt disagree more about this. by all means ask questions though, i dont think its offensive to ask who is funding Loose Change or any other 9/11 documentary/website(or ANYTHING in the media for that matter). but asking questions is one thing, making accusations is a whole different thing......
But take this into account...
Take someone like Eric Hufschmid. Did he start out as a freaky ubermegasuper anti-Semite, at least in terms of his public persona? He is one now, of course. DRG cites a photo from his book "Painful Questions" in the article he wrote for Tikkun, and now, believe it or not, we have a semi-local character making it sound like DRG links to Hufschmid's current website (check out the jumper earrings -- Mother's Day is Sunday!) and wanting to come make the point when DRG appears. (Petros, if you're reading this, I'm not referring to your legitimate concerns, but to Mark.) My point is, there is an especially diabolical and effective way to undermine a movement, and that is by HELPING it at first, and then when your credibility is built, working against it. I'm not accusing AJ or the LC boys of this -- I'm just saying it is a dynamic that we must be VERY aware of.
apples and oranges in this
apples and oranges in this case in my opinion. but i take your point. i just dont think accusations help, especially if the all knowing RT is wrong in these 2 cases(AJ and Dylan), haha. then in an ironic twist he would have been unknowingly doing the true disinfo artists work for them,haha,jk. to be serious though, i totally agree that skepticism is good i just happen to think that RT usually takes it past that into accusations without specifics. im still waiting on his paper on who Alex Jones really works for.(im NOT taking a shot RT, i would love to read it and would do so with an open mind.)
If Alex Jones is a shill...
He's been working on that for quite a number of years. I know this doesn't really count for much, but Jones appeared in two of Richard Linklater's films (Waking Life and A Scanner Darkly). Judging by Linklater's work, I'd like to believe he's a pretty good judge of character. (I know, I'm reaching.)
Linklater has also directed Slacker, Dazed and Confused, SubUrbia, Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, Tape, School of Rock, Fast Food Nation...
Jones does jump to conclusions at times, and he is a bit careless with his approach. For example, I agree with him that illegal immigration is being used as a tool to destroy U.S. sovereignty, I don't like the way he presents that argument. He does have a racist undertone to it. I don't blame immigrants for this problem (in my perfect world, there would be far MORE integration, not less), but I do understand that a flood of new residents will have a devastating and destabilizing effect on the U.S. at this point in its history. I would say Alex more than makes up for his recklessness with the amount of truth he spreads though.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
but Amy Goodman is a shill
Despite the fact that aside from 9/11 she has been dead on on a lot of neglected topics. Hmmmm double standard alert!
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
First of all...
I've never typed Amy Goodman's name on this site (or any other for that matter). But now that you mention her, yes she is either a shill, or still a sheeple. As is Noam Chomsky. Sure they both provide lots of great info on other topics, but on 9/11 they seem to go brain-dead. There is a sharp distinction to be drawn between this kind of behavior and that of Alex Jones. Jones might be a bit ideological, and we might not agree with all his opinions, but I really doubt it can be said that he isn't trying to expose EVERY particle of truth he encounters. Yes he's outspoken, yes he jumps to conclusions, yes he comes off as some kind of libertarian whack-job, but he never tries to dismiss, bury, or obfuscate information like the left-gatekeepers do.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
how do you know?
he never tries to dismiss, bury, or obfuscate information like the left-gatekeepers do?
This is a pretty basic logical fallacy--how can you possibly know what he is concealing, if by definition he is concealing it from you? How do you know that he is not hiding a truth even more damaging than 9/11? Or that his version of 9/11 truth is the accurate one? It's surprising that with as much as we are learning in the movement about how disinfo works, with straw men, appeals to authority, etc. that so many people think all that critical thinking need only or should only be applied to people they know are dishonest. The whole point is to try to understand when you might be being deceived. As for AJ I think the fact that he promotes Mark DIce by saying his book is a must read is pretty telling. If you can't see that Mark Dice is dishonest and up to no good, and that by extension AJ's endorsement of his book is suspicious, then so be it. But to then accuse me of having no basis for my suspicion of AJs intentions is dishonest or unfair or something.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
He could be concealing...
But given all the things he does try to air out, I would have to stretch my imagination to figure out what type of info he might want to hide.
I don't know anything about Mark Dice. I've seen two YouTube videos of him, one with Danny Bonnaduce (sp?) and another where he bullhorns in Barnes and Noble. Therefore I can't make any character judgments on Alex Jones based on my extremely limited exposure to Mark Dice.
I have a fair amount of trust for Alex Jones, because I've cross referenced tons of his information with as many and as diverse sources as I could, and found it all to be accurate. (Global Warming aside...) I can't keep fact checking him on every SINGLE detail until kingdom come. At some point I have to trust my instincts and count on his honesty. Especially when the info he provides is consistent with what I understand to be an accurate model of reality. If he comes up with anything that seems specious, I'll fact check on a case-by-case basis.
I agree with you, we must question everything, ESPECIALLY the stuff that makes us feel good when we hear it. However, an infinite regression into paranoia is counter-productive.
I agree with much of what you blog here RT, and I can see that your intellect is a valuable asset to the Truth. Now, let me make an observation...
I gather from some of your writing that you are Latino(a). I get the feeling that you might have a bone to pick with Alex Jones because of his immigration statements. Don't throw the baby out with the bath-water. Judge his information on its own merits.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
couple things
You can very easily judge Mark Dice by reading his website (resistancemanifesto.com) which is where I saw AJs endorsement of his book.
Yes I'm latino but that has little to do with my opinion of AJ. In fact I have a nuanced position on immigration. If we did not enable and encourage corruption in Mexico and if we would enforce fair labor standards in our own country including punishing those who hire illegals then there wouldn't be much of an immigration issue. As it is the issue is framed with the poor as the evil villains. This way the poor of Mexico are pitted against the poor of the US and the rich Mexicans and rich Americans laugh all the way to the bank. There is practically a civil war going on in Mexico right now due to a stolen election that is never mentioned in the American media. Why not?
Having grown up moving from one latin american country to another I have witnessed suffering and grotesque inequality that few in the US could understand. Families in cardboard boxes, children clawing at your window at every stoplight making you feel like a privileged piece of shit, the arrogance and insensitivity of the children of the wealthy who we went to school with (who to top it off bullied the little american kids to show us how poorly they thought of the US) and on and on.
There is no NWO secretly screwing these people over--they are screwed over in plain sight of the world and always have been. To polarize and simplify the issue like AJ does is just the beginning of what makes him wrong.
I am not paranoid nor am I passing judgement on AJ lightly or without cause. I did not take up this fight to make friends or to be popular, as I've said before. I try to keep things lighthearted for the most part, but don't ever confuse that with flippancy. I am dead serious about what I do, and I daresay I have learned to do it well. I have zero tolerance--ZERO--for people jerking me around or lying to me. It has by now been done often enough that it is not hard to recognize. I know who has lied to me and I know about what. I know that I have no reason to fear being sent to a camp or any other crap that AJ tries to sell people on. I have done my homework. I call BS when I see it, feel free to disagree. In the end we will see justice done, period. It is happening--it is going to happen slowly but it is going to happen. Any and all attempts to distract the world from the real truth is bound to fail. Keep watching, because this show is just getting started.
Out of the controlled opposition pond, into the ocean of reality we go. The big fish will eat the small. Pass the tartar sauce.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Do you know the definition of poisoning the well?
Description of Poisoning the Well
This sort of "reasoning" involves trying to discredit what a person might later claim by presenting unfavorable information (be it true or false) about the person. This "argument" has the following form:
1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented.
2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false.
This sort of "reasoning" is obviously fallacious. The person making such an attack is hoping that the unfavorable information will bias listeners against the person in question and hence that they will reject any claims he might make. However, merely presenting unfavorable information about a person (even if it is true) hardly counts as evidence against the claims he/she might make. This is especially clear when Poisoning the Well is looked at as a form of ad Homimem in which the attack is made prior to the person even making the claim or claims. The following example clearly shows that this sort of "reasoning" is quite poor.
For example... I could make a "poisoning the well" attack by saying that "you are one of the 9/11 truth deniers". See how cheap that is? No? I didn't think so.
9/11 truth denial is just as bad as holocaust denial in my opinion. The evidence is on our side.
“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."
It doesn't matter that it is fallacious
It matters that it is effective. Loose Change is very prominent, and a discrediting of Loose Change, however illogical, could have terrible effects. The same goes for Zionism-talk. I may be wrong on the facts and hypocritical in saying that certain things should not be discussed, but I don't think I am wrong about the effect it has.
Brainster, what's your point?
The firebombing of Dresden was a bona fide war crime. How many movies have you seen about it? Do you understand that some arguments are more nuanced than goo/evil and right/wrong? Emancipate yourself from mental slavery man....
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
One Movie
Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut was about the firebombing of Dresden
ah i forgot that was made into a movie
but the point is that there are many more movies about the holocaust, and aside from movies much more attention paid to it. Is Chris Bollyn wrong to point out the fact that no matter how guilty the Nazis were, we have no moral high ground? Not to mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki--which I think are much more clear cut than the holocaust. Could it be that because WE were so guilty of war crimes in WW2 we have to embellish the historical record of Nazi crimes? Yes, I think it could.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Thanks, Brainster
That wasn't a rhetorical question. On the other hand, look at the book Painful Questions, copyright 2002(!) -- full of beautiful pictures and diagrams and without overt anti-Semitic content. (I would say entirely without, but I haven't fine-tooth-combed it yet.)
Painful Questions
it was really my first exposure to 9/11 truth(other than some Pentagon stuff) and it certaintly did the job on me. i dont remember it having any anti-semitic content and it actually had a pretty good section on why the media doesnt report the facts(though he didnt disclose that he is a part of Rupert Murdoch's extended family. which might explain his sudden turn into disinfo,haha) along with all the great 9/11 info.
Long time no see! Hiding over here are you?
I'm actually looking for Jimbo, but hey, since you're here...
So, you make a good point, but a couple of clairifications please:
1: When did Hufschmid become promenently know in 9/11 activism--because I NEVER heard of the man before this year.
2: I notice this is an archive. Is the original site still available, and if not, how long has it been defunct?
As for Bollyn, merely citing someone is NOT an endorsment of that individual's entire world view. Scholars of WWII site Hitler and Goering frequently, where appropriate. I'll make a wacky assumtion they are NOT endorseing the views of the Third Riech. So you'll want to fine tune that complaint in future.
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.
hmmm, maybe some the attention lavished on Hufschmid
could be redirected into a discussion of why Larry Silverstein's business partner David Yerushalmi founded this organization: www.saneworks.us
I have never heard anyone call on Larry to disassociate himself from this man or his views.
Isn't that another funny double standard? And hey, interestingly enough, that site has similar views on immigration as Alex Jones. So you can be xenophobic and homophobic, kind of like, well, the Nazis, but as long as you don't question the holocaust narrative you're OK. Interesting!
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
AJ should qualify his
AJ should qualify his statements on immigration. His tone is repugnant. However, I do agree with him that illegal immigration is a NWO tool to dissolve national sovereignty. And understand this is coming from a person with experience on the topic of immigration. My mother is American, but I was born in Canada and have had MAJOR immigration grief for the past 9 years. U.S. immigration policies (combined with some bad choices and irresponsibility on my part) have probably set my life back about 4-5 years. I deeply sympathize with people trying to find the best opportunities for themselves and their families, but it doesn't change the fact that a flood of immigrants into the U.S. could cause a meltdown, and greater NAU integration sentiment.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
what about Larry Silverstein's association with this hater?
And the fact that such an insidious hate group operates in the shadows with no one pointing out just how bad neoconservatism really gets? CNN has on David Duke and gets him to make people upset and protective of Jews, but no one does the same by having on these Zionist haters in order to make people feel protective of muslims. And the Palestinians continue to be ethnically cleansed. All the while Israel spies, lies, and denies and that flies because it is not splashed in headlines like the crimes of blacks and hispanics are. OO Jose Padilla! Look out, it's Moussaoui! And don't forget the Muzzle-imssss especially the hisssssssing Pakistani snakes!
now, all those nice liberals who DO care about brown people? 9/11 deniers. Believers in the evil Osama myth. Will vote for Hillary or Obama. Oh trust me, I'm intimately acquainted with the latte left at Harvard. While studiously ignoring 9/11 they are choosing instead to hunger strike for security guards to get a $2 an hour raise. What a perfectly hypocritical little system.
Guess what? Fake options and false dichotomies are not going to stop us. Guilt trips and emotional blackmail won't work either. The truth is coming. Very soon.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Dude, you know I often agree with you
but there is just no reason to dis lattes that way. I'm sorry, but I have to call you on your beveragism.
don't give me that
"you know I agree with you on almost everything" stuff you double-short-no-room-Latte-denying hussie. Whatever they put in those things makes the liberals who drink them see only Obama's cleanliness and articulate speech while ignoring his less savory 9/11 denying ways. I'll take the straight up genuine Cynthia McKinney over that pandering fraud any day of the week.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Suddenly
"Black coffee in bed" by the Squeeze comes to mind.
Humans are odd and I'm one of the most odd I know.
But I don't bite, not on the first date at least (unless asked).
I, too, vastly prefer Ms. McKinney over that cypher aka Sen. Obama.
(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!)
(Poppies...poppies..)
Chocolate, anyone?
I love you all very much, and your little dogs, too.
(mmmm, dark chocolate is the best)
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
(I'm certain there's more chocolate forward, too, hurry up now, slow pokes get last pick )
alright Ldub...
I always figured you were some kindly older guy in a tweed jacket with elbow patches... what's with the tripping out all of a sudden? was it the coffee? the way you've been offering up variants on your very positive catchphrases is awesome btw. And do you really think Obama is a cypher? I think he's a pretty blatant fraud. Good actor of course, like all the rest. elections, oscars, american idol--same shit on different sticks.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
I've heard this said about
Jimmy Walter - that he started acted kooky after he got prominent. His chicken suit act was over the top, but maybe he is just a rich eccentric guy.
I was very disturbed to learn that Morgan Reynolds' co-author Rick Rajter apparently has some controversial views about the Holocaust.
Wrong place...wrong time,
Wrong place...wrong time, buddy. I have to confess that you make me wonder about you sometimes, Real Truther. Why would you just suddenly blurt that out here? That's something you ask in the privacy of your living room, not here where disinfo shills will exploit that for all it's worth. Or is that what you're TRYING to do? See? This is how entrenched the info wars are now...I literally don't know is trustworthy, save a few here and there. THIS alone is why those stupid comments about our comrades need to stay off these blogs and messageboards.
oh brother
Look TJ, there are very clearly several layers and several types of disinfo at work in the so-called 9/11 truth movement. I say so-called because to be honest the farther we come the more I realize how little progress we made for so long when (logically) the disinfo shills were relatively more numerous than they are now that lots of honest (if sometimes misguided) people have joined the movement. So yes, the truth movement was most likely "founded" by shills. That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, though some people like to pretend that the only shills are people who promote silliness like holograms.
Disinfo needs to SEEM legit. How is this accomplished? By saying obviously bogus things? Only in part. The crucial second part is to have another group then rise up to ëxpose" the (blatant) frauds in order to build credibility as "the trustworthy ones". Are you following me?
The key here is control. They want to control the debate--everything about it. So certain ideas are pushed, ideas which are easier to counter than others. For example, why worry about what kind of planes hit the towers aat this point? Is it at all relevant to the fact that the towers were obviously demolished? Nope. But lots of time is wasted on issues like that. Or any number of other false leads--or if not false then just marginal and relatively unimportant compared to... that's the point--most people who are not thinking for themselves will have no idea what might be sacrificed in order to discuss what IS discussed. No one talks about Larry Silverstein's background or business connections, and he was the OWNER of the mysteriously destroyed properties--and the prime beneficiary of the insurance! Someone has even suggested that there would be no point to trying Silverstein for insurance fraud--what is that all about?
I'll tell you. I saw this in the antiwar movement that I was a part of since late 2002. Now THAT is one majorly co-opted and ineffective social movement let me tell you. And all the tactics are the same. Splinter people in to bickering groups, prop up ineffective would-be leaders and dismiss any criticism of their ineffectiveness as disunity or even provocation, and generally give interested and energetic people an outlet for their frustrations but an outlet that channels the energy away from the most vulnerable points.
Peer pressure and all other manner of sycophantic means of consensus building are routinely and blatantly employed. Appeals to authority are not just to authorities like NIST. They are also appeals to "authorities" like Kos, or Amy Goodman, or Chomsky, or Alex Jones.
Pretending disinfo doesn't exist is exactly the WRONG way to counter its ill effects. NOT discussing who might be disinfo and why we think so is a gift to the disinfo artists in our midst. No questioning allowed, no need to worry about being sussed out. People who express frustration about the practice often do so because they realize they are not going to fare well if too many questions are asked.
Oh well, nuff for now. Never stop questioning, and never back down or bow to peer pressure. You will always regret it.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
"NOT discussing who might be
"NOT discussing who might be disinfo and why we think so is a gift to the disinfo artists in our midst."
i agree with that. i would only add that tearing down some of our more effective truthers with unfounded accusations based on a hunch with no real evidence is also quite a gift to the disinfo artists. if Alex Jones was so well connected and such a professional at disinfo, why is he always turned down for MSM interviews at the last minute? why is Fox News terrified of having him on? i guess thats just a ploy to make it look like he has credibility right? that kind of assumption makes you look like Alex Jones. ironic. (im still waiting on specifics RT, i have no problem with you endlessly bashing Alex Jones, just try and be a little bit more specific. you are always kind of vague on the subject with little pot shots here and there. do a write up on AJ and who you think hes really working for and what his agenda really is. i would look forward to that. no bullshit.) look, Alex Jones can be annoying and im right there with most other people when they say his style and delivery hurt what hes trying to do but if your gonna go around comparing him to KOS i think your gonna have to be a little bit more specific. Alex Jones isnt an authority to me, hes just a guy doing what he thinks is right. you seem to think he has much more power than he actually has.
why would I have to know who he's working for?
maybe he's working for himself and doing what he does because he feels like it. what difference does it make? I point out my observations (that a lot of people agree with) and draw my own conclusions as everyone is entitled to. I should point out Chris that you seem to be more interested in defending AJ than I am in attacking him. I have simply stated my position, repeated a few times to make sure everyone knows where I stand, and moved on. It's who who keeps bringing up the fact that I "constantly take pot shots at AJ". Honestly Chris? I think you're right--he's not that important. Which is why I DON'T write extensively about him. It's not because I think he's a huge threat to the movement that I express my opinion about him, it's because I have every right to share with others what my views are on what he does and how he does it. When I hear and see how people place him on a pedestal, I want to make sure people (especially people new to all of this) understand that he is not universally admired as it sometimes seems. If 25 people support him and I reply to 15 of the that I disagree, you seem to think that represents unfair bashing of the guy. In the greater scheme of things he gets off with far less criticism than he deserves, and I'm not even taking up half that slack myself. But for some reason you just won't drop it. With so many people around here who take issue with so much of what I say, for you to reply to every post I write with some version of "yeah well you do the same to AJ" is getting old, man. Get over him. Get over me. Get out and do some truthing.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
ouch! did i touch a nerve?
i guess it really doesnt make a difference but considering you put so much stock into him being disinfo i figured you would at least have a theory. i should point out Real Truther that i really only defend AJ when people like you make accusations without specifics/evidence or when people outright lie about him. same as someone defending DRG from accusations of being a neocon in disguise etc. that is why i ask for specifics from you(which you have yet to give). on the one hand you say hes not worth writing about and not that important etc. but on the other you seem to be as obbsessed with him as many of his "rabid fans". simply stated your position a few times and moved on huh? have you? do i really have to go back and retrieve all of your AJ statements, many of which had nothing to do with the thread or conversation? not a lot of substance either, most of what you've said about him is indeed just cheap little pot shots. thats why i ask for specifics but you dont seem able or willing. talk about getting old. and really part of it is the fact that you were here for quite some time and never said shit about Alex Jones but one day its like a switch went off and you started taking shots on most threads. that struck me as kind of weird. get over AJ. but most importantly get over yourself. no offense but im sure im not the first to give you that advice. you sure have a way of saying a whole lot without saying much at all when your cornered.
This is a broken record
how often does RT accuses people of being a shill or disinfo? I've seen him accuse more people (i.e. activists) than anyone. But it seems hypocritical when he tells me and others not to waste time on disinfo. Waste time on disinfo? How about wasting time accusing other activists of "working for the other side"? That's an ad-hominem. Let me explain: We don't need to know if such and such person works for the government, all we need to know is that they are not promoting misleading arguments or are doing things to hurt the movement. If they keep promoting these arguments or doing these things then we can call them on that, we don't have to speculate on their employment. Certain people in the movement have thanked me for saving their time for dealing with this disinformation crap so that they can spend more time on legitimate research instead of responding to this disinfo garbage. Creating divisiveness by calling people shills or disinfo isn't very constructive. If you have a problem with someone, just say what they are doing wrong, don't accuse them of working for the other side. After a certain point it looks to me like RT just wants people to respond to him or wants attention or wants people to disagree with him. You can only make the same point so many times in one thread before it gets old.
“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."
This film was costy
And as truthers we most financialy support those heroes.
Drummerboy
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You can't hide a lie for long. Truth shall come out.
not a free speech issue
Let me explain... "free speech" has traditionally been invoked to defend the right of people saying unpopular things--like the KKK's right to speak about their views on the inferiority of black people. As such, people have a knee-jerk reaction when they hear "we have to defend so and so's freedom to speak".
The framing of this argument this way is worthy of the Mona Lisa. The right wing nuts are not threatening anyone's free speech--even if they pretend to. What they are doing is telling lies about 9/11. Helping to cover up a crime. To cede to them this point--that, hey, we have a right to say whatever we want, makes it sound like we are admitting that our views are the unpopular ones. I've been truthing daily for the past few days and can tell you the opposite is true. Almost no one says anything negative--and plenty of people sayt "I like the sign!" and "Thanks for doing this". At some point, we have to start acting the part of a popular movement that is RIGHT. And that therefore it's not about OUR freedom of speech, it's about the liberties that people like the right wing nuts and the left gatekeepers have been taking with the truth for the last six years.
Remember, only a leader can lead you astray. Act and speak based on what YOU see around you, not what anyone tells you is prudent or safe. Have pride and stand up, truthers! It's YOU and YOU alone that will make or break this movement. No one will do it for you. No one.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Are you kidding me?
RealTruther...
You do realize that making movies costs money, right?
You also realize that licensing footage from the Associated Press and making 3d graphics costs money, right?
You also realize we've spent upwards of six figures of our own money giving things away for FREE, right?
Or are you completely oblivious to those realities? If so, pardon my defensive tone, but you've got some audacity making those kinds of accusations.
hey 007
you cant stop 9/11 truth.
_________________________________
Morgantown 9/11 Truth
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
[yawn]
Yes, pull another quote from your encyclopedia.
You really need a new hobby. Have you ever thought about collecting stamps?
I see.........
It's all about being on the winning side, right?
Well, you are in luck because in all likliehood, your side will win this one. None of the perps will ever take the fall for this. They will make lots more money, take great vacations and own more stuff, they will write bestselling books (thanks to uncle Rupert, Hannity and Rush et al.), they will have exciting mistresses, hell some might even be nominated for the Nobel Prize a la the war criminal Kissinger.......and it will end with state funerals with full honor guard, ............. libraries, middle schools and and streets all across the nation will no doubt be named after some of them, ........their children's children's children will no doubt lead posh and priviledged lives.........
But the truth will remain. That matters to some people.
You can run but you can't hide! Making a good effort, though...
But hey, you won't care, as long as you get paid.
What ARE you on about? You're the one up at the crack of dawn with the larks commenting on a "twoofer" site. If anyone's getting compensated, it's YOU mate! They paying for your colledge fund, are they? Would explain your rabid loyalty to the official theory.
Then again, maybe not--I'd think you'd be able to live somewhere else besides your mother-in-law's basement. Course you could be saving the extra cash...who knows.
So, how did you and Pat find out the Hoax "Pat" and the fake Nico come from the same place--if you're not really working with Mr. Haupt?
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.
not necessarily JamesB
but that's why we ask questions and demand answers--unlike you who has faith in whatever an "authority" tells you. :)
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
so how did they ID the hijackers' DNA at the Pentagon?
what did they compare it to? and how did Babs make the airphone call without a credit card?
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
How did anyone's DNA remain usable after the airliner? slammed
through the Pentagon @ 530 mph? The plane was obliterated, but fragile, organic DNA was recovered for 63 of 64 passengers??? No way in hell!
How did anything hit or happen at the Pentagon?
Oh, that's right, VP Cheney allowed it to happen.
I never did get a reply to my very civil questions regarding the Mineta testimony and the US Secret Service's clear violation of SOP in Florida.
Don't expect a Christmas card from me this year, James B.
Cheery bye! (with a nod to the always fun Col. Sparks)
The truth shall set (most of) us free (others are going to prison). Love is the only way forward.
LIVE--FROM HIS MOTHER-IN-LAW'S BASEMENT, WE GIVE YOU
Nico Haupt's stenographer! But he doesn't JUST do work for 911Bloglines--Jimbo's contracting out to ALL beneficiares of 9/11!
Five minutes later I found out what his research error was.
Out your arse and into the toilet--NO ONE who is seriously researching "How did he come up with this? Does this make sense? What observations could I make to prove or disprove this hypothesis?" would only take FIVE minutes to come to a conclusion. So either:
1: You're so attacheted to your preconceived notions you just went through the motions because you really didn't want to bother, or
2: You're on the clock and hacking out what your party line is.
Either way, doesn't look good for you chum.
So who's this "biff" wanker at your blog? Another lame attempt by one of your mates to "scare me off-line"? *yawn*
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.
just asking.
I guess Rosa Parks must have had to pay the bus fare.
I thought I heard you guys got funding from some benefactor? Is that benefactor not really too especially charitable?
I hope everything goes great, guys. Whatever method works best to get the most people to see it, that's what matters most.
fair enough, but questions will be asked inevitably, so...
take it as an opportunity to practice responding. or ignore them. whatever, no offense intended, but there's a weird veil of secrecy around y'all that makes some of us wonder.
So you've spent over $100,000 of your own money, great. It must be nice to have that kind of money to spend on truthing, and still have enough to live and work on a film without having to punch in every day like some of us (who can only dream of how far we could have taken 9/11 truth if we didn't have to work...) I realize it's not polite to ask people where they get their money, but if you are going to be touted as public figures in the truth movement, enquiring minds will want to know. Why can't you just say where your funding comes from? I'll tell you about mine--all the money I get comes to me from my employer, Harvard, for my 9-5 job of the last 7 years. During that time I have taken in less than $200,000 in after tax earnings and currently have a net worth of about $5000 (four figures baby!) Don't you think the people who have supported you from the beginning deserve some transparency? Isn't this about the truth and not any one of us individually? Do you think it's unreasonable to want to know who is funding something? Isn't that why all political contributions are public info? Isn't your film essentially a political statement? And what DOES Loose Change mean? You said in 2005 that you would reveal the meaning of the title in 2006. Have you? Do you guys cultivate an aura of mystique on purpose to make poeple suspicious? Sorry if you think these questions are unfair, but someone's gotta ask them.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Lighten up RT
Comparing movie funding (political or not) to political campaign contributions doesn't fly. Political contributions are monitored to ensure that public officials have accountablity--they are public servents. Movies are made in the private sector, and the filmakers aren't under any obligation to reveal funding. Who cares where their money comes from, if the end product is valid and effective in speading 9/11 truth?
And who cares what Loose Change means, what a nit-piky point! Look at all the awareness that Loose Change has brought to the truth movement, more than any other single vehicle out there. Granted there were some minor flaws but look at the overall effectiveness!
Sounds like you are one of those people who will always find something to complain about, no matter what....
oh I see
So when we ask Amy Goodman which foundations she gets money from, and whether or not that affects her willingness to discuss 9/11, we really shouldn't, because she's not a politician?
And a movie is "just a movie"? Was Top Gun "just a movie" or a slick military recruiting tool? Does the fact that it was made with the help of the military (as so many war movies are these days) not affect your opinion of them?
How about when Pearl Harbor came out in the summer of 2001? Coincidence? You really believe the things you just wrote Farmster? I see that sometimes it's OK to ask questions and demand answers, but it depends on who you're asking what. Never forget what happened when Orwell's animals took over the farm! Never forget!
Wish *I* had a posse.... :)
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
It's not unreasonable to ask for transparency
in this. We can never be too careful.
there is so much at stake
That I don't understand why anyone would be anything but 100% transparent about where their funding comes from...
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Isn't DRG "transparent" enough for you?
Having David Ray Griffin fact check the movie sounds like reasonable transparency to me.
As an hypothetical example of why RT's behavior is not appropriate in my opinion:
"Just where is RT getting his funding from? We need some transparency here. You know: why is he trying to provoke reactions (i.e. a flame war) over loose change with controversial opinions? RT’s comments almost sound like he doesn’t believe them and is just saying these things to get a reaction from people and make 9/11 Blogger look bad with these silly flame wars. Just who would want that to happen? Whose interests are RT working for?".
My point? There is a difference between asking for transparency and just being paranoid.
Of course you have a right to be paranoid. The difference is that I’m not paranoid enough to accuse you of the above on the front page of a prominent 9/11 website without a shred of evidence. You are of course entitled to what ever opinions you may have, but if you want people to treat you with the same respect you should also treat them with respect. I believe that if you are going to make serious accusations you should have some solid evidence--not just speculative opinions to back it up.
“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."
Just where is RT getting his funding from?
I answered the question in some detail but the post was hidden by RT-haters. :) EDIT-no it hasn't been hidden. so why did you ask? it's three posts up! Anyway I have no idea what DRG was asked to do for them and I doubt it had anything to do with vetting their funding sources.
I should add that I routinely criticize in very strong terms my sole source of funding. I have written to people in charge at Harvard up to and including the President to denounce the involvement of Harvard in the 9/11 cover-up. I have absolutely nothing to hide or to prove.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
No conspiracy here!
Ok. I’m glad we figured out where you get that funding from, because I was really starting to scratch my head over that one… Well actually No—that’s exactly what I suspected. I always knew that RT was a “lone nutter”. [Insert smiley face here]
In all seriousness now—if you can poke fun at yourself so easily, how can you make such serious accusations without a trace of humor? There seems to be some kind of conceptual dissonance going on here. Maybe you aren't expressing your true opinion when you accuse LC of being paid by the government? Wow, speculating like this is fun!
“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."
what?!
I've never said they are being paid by the government. My dad was and is paid by the government, for your information. That's why I don't accuse "the gummint" of "doing 9/11". It makes no sense. Why would I accuse the government of funding LC? In fact what have I ever accused LC of other than being disinfo? :) I think I've made clear that whether by fluke or design, Loose Change leaves out important parts of the story. And when they cavort with billionaire 9/11 deniers it raises questions. I have done this in fairly good humor and good faith I think, it's others who act like I'm pissing on the virgin mary or something.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
I was joking in my last post.
Look, I don’t mind if you criticize LC.
My criticism is only that you should ask POLITELY where they get their funding from without accusing them of being agents/enemies of the truth movement/whatever it is that you keep implying. Is that really so hard to do?
“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."
i get the feeling they don't care to respond to any kind of crit
I've seen them pop in here on occasion to call people haters for voicing opinions about them. ok so maybe they get a lot of crap from bedunkers and that sort, but wtf--ignore them. don't ignore the people who are on the same side as you. here's what I said that got one of them in here all huffy:
as an answer to why would they distribute LCFC as pay per view I said:
who know$??
I guess maybe the boys have racked up debts? Or maybe they see this as a way to avoid having to work a 9-5 job like some other truthers? Hey not to be a prick about this but I'm sure I'm not the only one who's curious--do the LC guys have jobs other than promoting their film?
OK so not the most polite way to raise the issue but wtf? pay per view? I understand Sofia who made 9/11 mysteries is in debt up to her eyeballs, and it's a better film. LC guys on the other hand have formed a corporation, presumably pay themselves salaries and manage to fly around the country having business meetings with 9/11 denying billionaires. Sorry, but it makes me wonder.
Think about it this way--if the system weren't so frikkin corrupt then people would not be making a living off of a DVD exposing a crime of huge proportions. In other words, however you slice it the LC guys are making a living doing what they love (producing ONE video) based on the fact that our country has been hijacked by some pathological and evil liars. Call it noble if you want, to me it seems a wee bit opportunistic, and no I'm not bitter that I have to do my part around a 9-5 job and netting $0 from my efforts. I wouldn't have it any other way--there are things you do for money and there are things you do because they are the right thing to do no matter what it costs you. I would not feel comfortable mixing the two.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Sadly
This was sort of (in a more mature manner) the point I was trying to make. That's why I'm signing off while I'm ahead on this one. This debate is a waste of time. You are right on that.
Don't be too "mature"...
to enjoy a little low-brow humor once in a while. BTW, though the thread was veering, I really meant that it was at least a rational discussion.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
you're right conscious, we do need beautiful guys...
glad we're doing it for ya!
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Yeah but Goodman has a gatekeeping history while LC guys
have a gate opening history.
Amy Goodman's fans would disagree...
And I know because I've engaged them. But hey, out one pen into the other if you want. That's what will happen if you're not careful. Maybe not with Loose Change but with someone or something.
Never stop questioning means never. Not: stop questioning when you're comfortable with what you've learned. The exposure of the 9/11 lie made me hunger for truth, sorry if that means I have to chew on LC but that's just the way it is.
So where DOES their funding come from? Is the fact that I didn't ask nicely enough going to mean that they don't need to answer?
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
BTW, The elites/NWO have been draining the middle-class of
money & wealth for a long time. It's another means of control over us, and by making us work 50+ hour weeks for a devalued dollar, their wealth appreciates further.
Are you kidding me, again?
The simple fact that you are harping on us for "not revealing what Loose Change means" shows 1) how petty your arguments are and 2) how little attention you've paid to us. Do you have any idea how many interviews we've done and given where we explicitly explain the title?
Our funding comes from our supporters. The people who buy our movie have put us where we are today, and we are eternally grateful that we are allowed to spend our days doing this. Now if you can kindly stop attacking us without having any evidence to back it up, that would be great.
We have been nothing BUT transparent. You just have terrible vision.
so then...
Did you actually spend $100,000 of your own money giving out the movie for free or is it more like you sold 50,000 copies at $10 and used 20% of the profits to make a bunch to give out for free? Are you registered as a non-profit? I'm sorry but since it seems that this is a business for you (no matter how noble the intent) we should be curious as to what you pay yourselves as salaries, which you would have to make public as a non-profit. Since it seems you are actually an LLC, or limited liability corporation, it is reasonable to wonder to what extent you are profiting from the movement, including the thousands of man-hours of volunteer work that people do on your behalf. Do you think these questions are not going to come up in the future? Or that victims' families might take issue with you making a single penny off the story of their loved ones' murders?
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
You should go and harass
You should go and harass David Ray Griffin, Alex Jones, Webster Tarpley, William Rodriguez, and the creators of 9/11 Mysteries, 9/11 Press for Truth, 9/11 Revisited, and every other person who has ever done anything for this movement and sold things to help fund their actions. Or you could just go and read the responses to these same questions which he has been asked dozens of times before on the loose change forum, although those usually come from dickheaded debunkers instead of dickheaded "truthers".
my my
DRG is a retired Prof. he is not making a living from truthing, though he certainly may be profiting. All the others you mention I think raise a legitimate question--what is our feeling on professional truthers? be childish, or engage in debate, your choice, poopiehead. :)
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
So you don't trust someone
So you don't trust someone unless they're living in a ditch for the cause, RT? Should we trace back the origins of all the Harvard funding that affects your department to see if you are sterling and worthy? You've admitted that you are taking a paycheck from an extremely corrupt institution, yet you present yourself as a rare voice of total truth. Should we check your tax returns to take you seriously? Produce something marketable and then go broke for your highmindedness to show us you really care.
The above is intended to be sarcastic, but I'm not flaming you. You might reconsider this position. Their personal finances are their business. As are yours. I personally don't like to show LC to my acquaintances without a huge disclaimer regarding its speculative nature and the ability to express my quibbles with it, but this really is the weakest argument you've come up with to express your feelings about the kids. I would assume that there are reasons to keep things private until LCFC is released that have as much to do with foiling those who want to quash it as anything else.
The very notion that activists shouldn't be allowed to make a living from their products is insane. The fascists want activists and truthseekers to buy into that, because it marginalizes them and makes them less effective on many fronts. (Not to mention that many documentary filmmakers with a fraction of the viewing audience of LC -- and who don't give it away free on Google -- sell their films and make a living all the time.) A friend of mine who is huge in the nonprofit world has been fighting this notion forever. He said we need to stop letting the fascists set the "moral" terms for how we operate, because as far as they're concerned, we should all just ESAD ASAP.
Right wingers privately funded ABC's "Path to 9/11" screed for $40 million with no commercials. They'd love nothing more than to read a thread like this. Please don't feed the animals!
LEH i think you miss the point
I DO take money from Harvard (which at one time took much money from me) for a job that I do. that job does not entail helping them screw anyone. while holding that job I do not shy away from pointing out very ocally things I think Harvard needs to stop doing. and I admit it all right here.
if people are not open and forthcoming about who they get money from how can we possibly judge whether or not they are being influenced by virtue of the fact. I have told you that though I receive money from Harvard I do not fear reprisals for speaking out about what they do wrong--because that is my right--they can't fire me for telling the truth or giving my opinion. in fact it would be very unwise for them to do so--I'm union and we don't take crap. :)
i do want people to trust me, AND to be properly skeptical of my saying so. for that reason I have shared the info, and to show that I'm not being a hypocrite about this. people can come to their own conclusions about others who may not want to be as candid.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
My feeling is
that people who have the means and opportunity to spread information as far and wide as AJ and the LC boys should do just that. It is also my feeling that those activities require funding. It is also my feeling that 9/11 Truth would be nowhere but in the basement with the rest of the "tin-foil" accessories right now, were it not for people like the ones in question. It is also my feeling that if the information that LC spreads far and wide turns out to be feces, they will share Jim Fetzer's fate. We all know there is disinfo out there, and we're all on guard. Anything that leads us into Star-Trek land, or away from a new investigation will be thrown on the scrap heap with the rest of the pseudo-science and O'Reilly-isms.
I wish I could figure out a way to make a living right now off 9/11 Truth or other activism. I could do way more damage if I didn't have to devote time to some job that is only putting money in the pocket of some globalist weasle. I also can't think of another job I'd feel happier with on a moral level.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
That's not really fair
Terrorism draws eyeballs to TV, and mainstream media sells those eyeballs to advertisers. All the more profitable when the government does all the "journalism" for you, and you just have to parrot what they say and babble back and forth about it.
Fahrenheit 9/11, for that matter, made money for Michael Moore, as did Path to 9/11 for ABC. Profiting from unexamined lies about 9/11, that has led to many deaths, is much more offensive.
I would like to see a non-profit, but for-profit is not inherently immoral. Investors might require it, for one thing. A pure profit motive would not necessarily be bad, though it could lead to editorial distortions.
And how does DRG not needing the money mean anything? That also is not fair - should only comfortable people profit from their labors?
these are legitimate positions, thanks people
The important thing is that we keep these issues in mind. Why is our current media system one in which 9/11 was allowed to be covered up? Because it is a for-profit media system. See? Despd.ite what some will always infer I do NOT raise these issues to be an asshole. Why do the media conglomerates bury stories that could promote peace and promote stories that bury peace? Because they are for-profit enterprises. It's easy to say, well WE'LL do it better. WE won't be corrupted. And then it's the same old shit again and again. I've said before that I'm a pseudo Christian--one reason is because I think the NT is full of great advice about being principled, honest, and loving. And that money corrupts, period. If someone would rewrite it without all the superstition and doomshilling it would be a great service to mankind.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Someone did, RT -- Thomas
Someone did, RT -- Thomas Jefferson.
I hold no religious sentiments, but the Jefferson Bible is fascinating. He removed all references to dogma and Jesus's divinity, leaving the life and teachings and philosophy. The man in the Jefferson Bible sounds a lot more like LeftWright than any religious leader I can think of ;-)
(He took scissors and snipped away on a King James Bible as though he were making snowflakes, and when it was reconstituted -- opened up -- it looked completely different. I confess I love the mental image of TJ working intently by lamplight with all the pieces spread out before him.)
Uh oh, LEH
You outed me, dagnabbit, I knew that aging cream wouldn't work forever!
I guess I'll have to take that Brasilian vacation and get plastic surgery, after all.
I'll be posting from a clinic near Ipanema beach for the next few months, y'all.
Be good and I might post pics of the locals...wink
How would Jesus flirt?
(Note to self: Send another thank you note to Mesoamerican brothers and sisters for inventing CHOCOLATE)
Perhaps Jefferson just felt the bible was a little too heavy?
wow thanks
I had no idea. A few years ago I actually took a bible and started blacking out all the parts that I thought were silly to see what would be left, and it wasn't all that much. I think what happened with Jesus, assuming he really existed, was that he was a would be reformer fo the corrupt status quo who was SO good at what he did, and SO right about what he was talking about, he had to be co-opted by the religious authories (the Jewish priest class). Instead of letting people learn about his teachings that criticized the priests, he was presented to the world as someone claiming to be the Jewish Messiah. This insulated the corrupt Jewish authorities from his criticisms because they could dismiss him as a blasphemer, and insured that his universal message (intended for all peoples not just Jews) could be harnessed to divide and conquer the masses. Remember that when we look back on this we are looking through layers and layers of corrupt revisionism. I think beyond all the BS is a remarkable kernel of truth that can pretty easily be surmised, and that is an example much like that of "the buddha", another man who took issue with injustice in his time and left a legacy to be at once emulated and corrupted by humanity. It's truly a never ending story, and it is a story about all of us--we are all one great thing and have the power, if we choose, to make thing a good one.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Thank you
I share your concerns about for-profit enterprises, which may not be evident in what I wrote. Unfortunately, in our society, for-profit is sometimes required to raise money. I would like to know who is funding the movie.
Mr. Avery -
I hope that you and yours are well.
I'm not sure if you saw my post on a different blog (here), so I'll ask the questions again.
Are you all going to be making new LCFC tee-shirts (in multiple colors) and new LCFC stickers well in advance of the film's release so we can get a major buzz going? I also hope that you will have a variety of downloadable posters so I can promote the film massively throughout the greater SF bay area.
Also, I think we'll have an independent theater here in NorCal to screen LCFC. Talk to KJ at 911tv.org for details (I work with them).
Please don't take our resident Puerto Rican gadfly too seriously. He means well, but can lose track of his tone on occasion. Besides, if you're not willing and/or able to answer his questions, how will you handle THEIR questions? And you know all those questions will rain down like the debris from the Twin Towers when the film comes out.
We missed you guys in Chandler in February (but you didn't miss much sigh LOL).
I look forward to meeting you at some point. You are a credit to your generation, your country and the world.
Thanks for all your great work.
Enjoy the day!
(btw - if you do ride atv's, please wear your helmet. Yes, I'm a dad. ROFLMAO@myself)
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
Get out of town, I smell ego and jealousy!!
Back off man, your going way too far on this tangent, get back to the f%^$king mission, 9/11 truth!
John
WE GOT TO TAKE THE POWER BACK!
never give up
No, we
won't
back
down.
No, we
won't
give in.
Sept. 11th 2007
- nick9/11
I would really like to watch this on Sept. 11th 2007. If it is not out then, I personally think that the movement will be missing a crucial wave of support at that time. It needs to be fresh, in your mind and in your face and at the right time. Little pieces of truth keep coming out here and there but it is never all in front of your face at one time and more importantly...the right time.
Look how long it took to get the JFK death bed confession:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/300407deathbedconfession.htm
Do we really want to wait that long for a similar 9/11 death bed confession?
Not I!
side note -I don't know if anyone has been paying attention or not but ALL 9/11 MSM has been limited to the official story. It makes me so mad because everyone on every news station uses 9/11 as a talking point but they haven't taken the time to investigate the FACTS!
little pieces for sure......
the confession is no doubt incomplete at best. consider the source. Hunt has no problem throwing LBJ under the bus while saying he was "approached" about the JFK plot but "turned it down". give me a break. he covered his team and whoever was controlling him(GHWB) and threw the dead man(LBJ) under the bus. how convenient.
never ever ever ever gonna
never ever ever ever gonna give up.....never ever ever
CANADA AWAITS
I didn't see CANADA on the list of countries ready to distribute LCFC in theatres. It won't be easy because independant theatre chains are few and far between. Cineplex Entertainment has a virtual monopoly on film distribution. Hopefully you get LCFC released in the Great White North. The truth needs more exposure for your neighbors to the north.
The trouble hasn't even started yet
I have always believed that the 9-11 Truth Movement, if successful, will cause a true revolution in this country. Anything less would not be a victory. What would you settle for - investigations by the very politicians whose livelihood is based on participation and continuance of this system? That strikes me as very naive.
If 9-11 Truth exposes what happened and who made it happen, it will collapse the government as we know it. People will die on both sides before this happens. Am I being overly dramatic? In revolutions, people die. It happens when holding back the forces of change and truth begins to fail, as we appear to be witnessing right now. Those in power have too much to lose, and they have already killed hundreds of thousands here and abroad to make it happen.
This isn't Gulf of Tonkin. This isn't even Pearl Harbor. Americans were killed by not by our actions, but our inactions - a LIHOP. 9-11 is a new level of deceit, because our citizens were targeted and killed by the actions of our government directly. Do you really think those responsible will leave government, lose everything and go to jail before many more are killed?
This is a revolution. In revolutions, people die.
This Country?
Yo, 9/11 Truth is more than about this country. That's why it is so important for people from other countries to get on board. Where are you Swiss? So comfortable in your perfect little world? You people that think you can divide yourselves by your nationalities-sorry, it is one world now. You can go to the Amazon and run through the jungle with a bow and arrow, but at some point you're gonna wanna check your e-mail.
9/11 Truth is about money, power, and the human ego. Always desiring more control, to be in charge. The ultimate human high? I studied sociologists and philosophers from Talcot Parsons to Asante,what a bunch of BS, they all have their "opinions", they all have their "truths" (but, Marcuse relates well to 9/11). And none of them come out and say that, black or white, male or female, German or Zambian-there is this nasty little being in us that does nasty sh$%. When we find out WHY he/she does this stuff, we might be able to move on as a people.
I see the possibility of 9/11 leading to bloodshed (sorry, LWr, you seem like the peace and love type!). It's about a new reality, about "Truth" as it applies to the human organism. Aren't we all largely full of crap?(Goffman and dramaturgy?) Through 9/11 Truth we can pull up the shades on our inner selves, as humans, that the perpetrators of the controlled demolitions and murders did it for reasons related to human desire for control, power, material advantage, I'm wondering where the SEX comes in!
9/11 Truth has made me sick of the American left, what a lie they turned out to be.
9/11 Truth is a global phenomenon. Besides the involvement of Israelis and Pakistanis. Its about "the State", and the "Truth" threatens all powers that be. The media as "Truth"? Yeah, right. "Truth" threatens all authority, think of all the scientists that support the government BS! "Truth" threatens all Power, Mugabe will be out on his ass when the "Truth" sinks in to the people of Zimbabwe.
9/11 Truth is about you and me and what we are capable of doing under certain situations. Those of us here in the Movement are the ones brave enough to deal with thinking about who and what we are. Thank you, all of you "foreigners" who come here (I'm an Internationalist, so I don't consider people from other countries as "foreign" to me).
North Americans-we are currently experiencing severe UV exposure across the Southwest. Check this EPA sight (can we trust them under this administration?), www.epa.gov/sunwise/uvindex.html#map
click from "Day 1" to "Day 4". Ozone depletion is a "Truth", I watched these predictions change between noon and 9 PM last night. Looks like an index of "10" is going to cover most of the U.S. by the weekend. Has your local newspaper warned you? If you plug in your zip code at this site, you might just find out that you're under a "UV Alert". Such is Truth!!!
Hear hear! (Here here?)
"9/11 Truth has made me sick of the American left, what a lie they turned out to be."
Yeah, this has been my greatest disappointment in this whole thing. I used to consider myself left-leaning, and most (maybe ALL) of my friends are "liberals". I've never really been the type to categorize or pigeon-hole myself, but most of my opinions were probably leftist. Now I'm disgusted by the left, because it turns out that for all their intellectualism, they are just as brainwashed and opinionated as the right. I would expect many "conservatives" to toe-the-line, and not to be able to figure out the Big Lie, but I thought the "liberals" were all brainy and stuff!
I was trying to "wake" one of my good friends last week. I started him of by going over some very basic physics ideas, the scientific method, conservation of energy, momentum, etc. Then I went into the CD stuff. He gets BLDG7, he is starting to get the Towers. I feel that he is understanding. Then we talk about the Mineta testimony, and he says "I don't see how this is relevant". :-O WTF!?!?!?!? Ok, it's an hour after we know the country is under attack... This is the most highly defended building in the world... Automatic procedures are in place to protect the air-space in this area... The VP of the USA is monitoring the plane coming into the Pentagon. 50 miles, 40 miles, 20 miles, 10 "Sir, do the orders still stand?"... So if Cheney is giving some order in regard to this plane, and we know automatic defense protocol are supposed to be in effect, and we see that the result of the order was obviously the plane hitting the building, WHAT COULD THE ORDER HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN??? It wasn't a shoot down, because the kid would have only had to ask once if it was. (Actually, he wouldn't have to ask at all, because that should have been automatic.)
So then he's like "Well, they're on record saying they didn't issue a shoot down, so what's your point?" :-O WTF?!?! First off, IT'S PROTOCOL!!! They have to order A STAND DOWN to circumvent it! Second, it would be INSANE NOT TO SHOOT DOWN. We know the country is under attack. We know planes are flying into buildings. If we shoot it down, we loose the plane and kill the passengers. If we don't shoot down we loose the plane, kill the passengers, kill an unknown number of people at the target, and damage unknown $ worth of property. Plus, Cheney can see the thing making a B-line for the Pentagon on the radar. Remember, "50 miles, 30 miles, 10...". What is this, military suicide strategy? Why the hell would he let the Pentagon be attacked, when the people on the plane are going to die either way!?!? Then he's like "Yeah, I know Cheney is a lunatic. That still doesn't make this relevant". AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
So despite the Mt. Everest of evidence that all points to govenment complicity, you still believe that this is just a crazy conspiracy theory, and that our govenment would never do that to us? Despite the fact that these guys have corruption COMING OUT THEIR EARS, despite the fact that you DO believe they lied us into an illegal war, despite the fact that THEY WROTE ABOUT THEIR NEED FOR A "NEW PEARL HARBOR", despite the fact that history shows us that govenment barbarity is the RULE, not the exception... And to top it off, you are now JUSTIFYING AND RATIONALIZING the fact that a complete madman is running our country, and has his finger on the BUTTON? :-O
Wow.
It's really depressing, and really fascinating at the same time to watch these denial mechanisms function. You see the multiple levels, and the "contingency denial" popping up just as you think you are breaking through. Normally a very intelligent guy. Completely unable to apply a shred of logic to this issue.
Anyway, I've been floating away from the whole "liberal" crowd for the past few years, I guess. (Not toward the "conservative" crowd though.) The phony intellectualism just began to wear me out. I like stimulating my mind, but these people aren't doing anything with it. They're just consumer drones like the "conservatives", only they like different products.
So yeah, I agree with pretty much everything you said. Good post.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Inconclusive.
I would say that the evidence of a plane at the Pentagon is inconclusive, and it warrants a REAL investigation.
Also, the Mineta testimony DOES suggest a stand down, when taken in context with little common sense. I would say it's a fair bet that anything careening toward the Pentagon is going to be shot down any day of the week, let alone an hour after what we saw in Manhattan. And if Cheney gave an order to shoot, then some cadet came back to verify it 5 times, that cadet would be court martialed. And after the second or third time he came back to verify, they would have taken him out of the chain of command.
I'm not "relying" on any one tidbit of evidence about 9/11. I've got a whole smorgasboard.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Agree in part
Whether Flight 77 or not, you would think that any unfriendly incoming plane or missile would and could be shot down. The fact that anything hit the Pentagon at all is indeed suspicious, particularly when the evidence points to it being a missile.
I still think the idea of Dick Cheney being the one who made the decision to allow a plane or missile through is a cartoon version of 9/11 - under the protocols in place at the time, the Secretary of Defense was the person to make that decision if there was time, otherwise, field commanders. And you still have the problem of proving the timing. The argument that the timing asserted by Cheney does not jibe with the timing of Flight 93 going down, one of the main arguments of the paper at Journal of 9/11 Studies, is not conclusive because there were reportedly other planes on their screens at the time. And whether it is true or not, the Vanity Fair article suggests military personnel were having trouble distinguishing planes from "inputs." The timing of the war games is suspicious, yet could provide an excuse.
Naive and misguided?What?
What are you talking about-this was testimony by a member of the administration, this is documented, this at least shows Cheney's knowledge of what was going on. I find that a bit relevant to our subject. I personally wonder how much Bush even knew, I'm not going to blame it on him because we know he's just a puppet. He probably knew that "something" was going on, but no details. Now Cheney on the other hand was working behind the scenes, Mineta's testimony proves Cheney is GUILTY!!!. And I find that just a little bit important. No, it is obvious by any picture I've seen that no 757 hit the Pentagon-that is again so obvious that I pull out my hair when I see people here say that there were 757 parts at the scene. No, but there are unbroken windows above and cable spools. I believe it was a missile because the round hole looks like what a missile would produce. And, there was likely a "plane" that came in towards the Pentagon to release the missile. Then I'd guess that explosives were detonated and a lot of people in "the know" were offed.
C, I feel your pain ,man. One of my best friends in years couldn't imagine that our government would do such a thing. This guy was super intelligent, leftist, a rebel. There was no getting through to him. Other "friends" are getting irritated that I e-mail them 9/11 material. They think I'm trying to pull them into a cult. Logic does not work with them. Sometimes they refuse to watch the videos, esp. of WTC7. But, one friend a year ago went to a site on his own, saw 7 go down and instantly became a Truther (although one of those "inactive" Truthers-there's a lot of them out there).
The good news-I had a polisci prof. in the past that showed the class a mainstream video on 9/11. At the end of class I mentioned to the 150 class members about our local 9/11 Truth group, that we believe the government was behind it. It was like asking sheep their names. Those dead eyes, not the slightest clue to what I was talking about. I told the prof. my opinion and he said, yeah, he understood there were other versions out there.
I saw that prof. on an empty stairway yesterday on campus, he said that he was looking into the subject, that they need to be careful what they say in their classes. I thought of Steve Jones and Kevin Barrett. Yup. They also need to be careful about what faculty overhear. I had thought that he was believing the government story, when he was just being careful. I suppose there are millions of people like him around the country. They can come out of hiding after we do our job of getting the Truth into the public arena.
Maybe I overspoke
but I've read Adam Letalik's paper, DRG's books and articles, Richard Clarke's book, and now John Ekonomou's new article at Journal of 9/11 Studies, and don't see an irrefutable case that Cheney arrived in PEOC before 9:37. And it just seems too pat for me - I don't see Cheney involving himself operationally to the extent that the success of the attack is dependent on him making a stand-down order. One point made by Letalik and Griffin is that Cheney supposedly admitted he was in the PEOC at the time the Pentagon was hit, when he said that shortly after he arrived in the PEOC, he got word the Pentagon had been hit. That does not necessarily follow.
This website questions Mineta's testimony, and I think he raises some valid concerns. I am not taking any position on the 5th-plane theory of the author, but just looking at the questions he raises as to whether Mineta was in the PEOC with Cheney at 9:20 (or 9:30) like he says.
http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/
That Cheney is guilty I have no doubt. The question is whether this proves it, or helps him walk when the proof fails.
What is more significant to me
is Myers and Rumsfelds' whereabouts and actions on the morning of 9/11. Richard Clark says they were videoconferencing with him from about 9:15. Clark quotes Myers talking about war games. He doesn't quote Rumsfeld but sees him in his studio at the Pentagon.
9/11 Commission Report has Rumsfeld in his office at the time, and later missing in action until 10:30.
Myers and Rumsfeld were supposed to be running the show in terms of military command structure, at the NMCC. Not Dick Cheney at the PEOC, and not Richard Clark at a White House teleconference. What the hell were Myers and Rumsfeld doing?
If it's not a revolution, then it's a joke.
If this isn't a revolution, then we're wasting our time. We have experienced a fascist coup, and our National Sovereignty is being flushed down the toilet. Our rights are vanishing quicker than David Copperfield's popularity.
If this doesn't lead to regaining control of the media, restoration of the Constitution, numerous reforms in the way our government works, re-distribution of wealth, accountability and justice for 9/11 and the ensuing war crimes, most likely the abbolition of the CIA, stopping the NAU, most likely disbanding the EU, and a whole slew of other massive reforms, then we will be in the same boat we are in right now. And we have to figure out how to pull all this off right at a time when China is becoming an economic juggernaut, whose intentions are not clear.
Anything less than a revolution, and indeed a cultural renaissance, will be purely cosmetic. What do we want to see, a new JFK rise up from our ranks, or just Hitler with a boob-job?
This is a revolution whether we like it or not, people. The harder we work now, the more chance we have that it will be peaceful. But we are going to have to break our backs for that to happen. We are going to have to work smart, and work FAST.
And we better translate this stuff into Mandarin just to be safe...
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
C----
Well Said!!!
(James B-so what do you think about all this?)
Yes, our U.S. Constitution is hanging by a thread!
!
Time for the world to take a stand- together as one
This can be done peacefully, but it needs all of us to stand up without fear together.
Jersey Jay...
You do realize that the government has been killing people actively and deliberately since the revolution in 1776 right? Suggesting that revolution (I assume you mean violent overthrow of the gov) basically puts you in a category with the ever so credible revolutionary communist part of the USA and the like.... so we can't prosecute an insurance fraudster and arsonist like luck larry silverstein without a revolution. Yikes! maybe Zionists DO control America--who knew!
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
You're missing the point.
...and probably not looking at the big picture. NAU, Constitution gone, media 100% co-opted... This isn't just about nabbing the 9/11 baddies and stopping their war profiteering. In case you didn't notice, the whole "One-World Government"/global fascism thing is well under way. There is no real justice system left in the U.S., and maybe nowhere in the Western world!! Who is going to try these criminals, Scalia? We're not just talking a few bad apples here. The entire system is 100% corrupted and co-opted. (Not 100% of the people, but the PRACTICES, the system, the structure... it's over and done.) We are in the middle of a sea-change like the world has never seen, and the people dumping it on us are not going to just relinquish power willingly. Even if they would (which would be a miracle), we would STILL have to set up a system with more integrity, and fewer weak points.
I'm all for non-violent resistance, and I hope we can get the job done that way. Shit, look at my quotes down there! I'm not comfortable with the idea that I might have to take up arms to defend my family, and to defend freedom, but that might just be reality. I might not even do it, I don't know. If I start killing storm-troopers, aren't I just helping the NWO in their depopulation scheme? Plus, I really do believe in non-violence. (But I also believe in self defense...) The people we are fighting DO NOT believe in non-violence. They are going to clamp down on us with whatever means necessary. And with all these FEMA "camps" that have been built... We know what fascists like to do at their "camps".
At some point, these people will have to be removed from power by force. Hopefully we'll have EVERYONE on our side by then, and the cops can just drag them out of the White House without any shots being fired.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
ok but
Given that we know how few people are aware even of building 7, shouldn't we try to give people a chance to learn and apply pressure on our leaders before going off the doomshilling cliff??
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Yeah sure...
I'm just trying to be realistic. I mean, you're saying it yourself... Look how few people are even aware of BLDG7. We have to overcome a truly staggering inertia right now, and the media and the rest of the system are not on our side. We're fighting an up-hill battle, against a system and indeed an entire CULTURE that has been calcified through DECADES of continuous effort. The deck is stacked HEAVILY against us. Yes, I see us making progress. But I also see THEM making progress toward their goals. From what I can tell, they're moving at quite a clip compared to us. THEY control almost all the key elements of the game right now, and THEY are working very hard to rearange those elements to make it ever more impossible for us to be effective. THEY also still have about 5.5 billion sheeple gleefully helping them turn Earth into one big prison/mausoleum.
I'm not trying to be pessimistic, or a doomsayer. I just want people to realize the seriousness and the enormity of what we are facing. I want people to wake up to how late in the game it actually is. I want this knowledge to light a fire under their asses!!!
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
R.T. - I do realize much,
R.T. - I do realize much, and I'm expressing my view on the movement and where it will lead if it succeeds. The power that be have never before pulled off the mass murder of our citizens like they did on 9-11. If you want to shoot for pulling Silverstein into court for insurance fraud, good luck with whatever that might accomplish in the big picture of the Truth Movement.
Thanks for painting me with that communist brush and questioning my credibility for seeing this as revolution. I don't know you, but from your comments in general you appear to be somewhat of a labeler. I'm not a communist or a socialist or a liberal or a democrat or an anarchist or a Zionist, just a citizen. What I'm seeing isn't violent overthrow, I see violent resistance to the Truth coming out for all America and the world to lay at the feet of the guilty. Do you really think they'll just say, "Man, you got us" and extend their wrists for the shackles?
I agree with some here that, while a fan and constant reader of 911Blogger posts, the comments often add little to the discourse beyond bickering.
I'm a Social Democrat..
and we're supposed to believe in a peaceful transition to "socialism". I am still pro-business, but we need healthcare, education for all as security. And in my belief system, general security for a group of people was what the idea of "the state" was created for. And then what happened? Elites realized that they had "power", and it felt good! Control over their fellow man. That's sexy!
The political group I joined didn't do much more than talk. You'd have to search hard to find out that they exist. There was a good (yet thin) magazine that came every few months. Along with more requests for money.
I see what you're saying, JJ. I see 9/11 as the beginning of a revolution in human consciousness. IF we win. And I feel that we must win, or humanity has proven its collective being unworthy of residency on a beautiful world that this collective entity has enjoyed screwing over since day one.
And no, I don't see the corrupt corporate media coming out and saying "oh, yeah, well we were all invested in the same companies making millions off the wars, not too many Americans were dying, and those that were didn't go to Harvard or Yale,etc. so they didn't really matter. So we covered up the Truth for 6 years, Truth IS,after all, "only what is believed to be true", and we could create "Belief" so we did. But now that we're busted, we'll offer that you imprison a few administration officials and let the hundreds of us on boards of directors and the thousands of journalists that lied to you (to maintain their really important careers), you let us continue with business as usual and we'll PROMISE to never lie to you again."
No, this cancer of corruption has grown deep into the the human psyche and must be completely excised or it will return. But so many are happy with the status quo, as false as it is. Pretty boys are screwing pretty girls and they have good jobs and beautiful kids and they don't know anyone in prison.
Think about China-"wanna buy a new liver, we beat this guy till he admitted stealing, so we're blowing his brains out at 6 AM and your liver will be ready at 6:05." Russia. Zimbabwe.
Be glad that we've gotten as far as we have with the 9/11 Truth Movement. In a big part of the world, most of us would have been offed long ago-as soon as we questioned the government account.
May 9/11 Truth lead to a global revolution of the mind, followed by severe political/social change. But I am not optimistic.
how dare you label me a labeler!
I don't know where you get that. Í never called you a communist, I said that the way you're talking you sound like the communists who say that there is going to be this revolution and bla bla. Look--there is a clear effort afoot by the powers that be to stir people up, get them nervous, make them expect some kind of huge attack that will result in us all being sent to concentration camps... my GOD, listen to yourselves. Go take a walk outside--talk to your local police and share your concerns. Bring them some donuts and have a heart to heart--look them in the eye and ask them--Officer Joe, would you REALLY come drag me out of my house at 2 in the morning to ship me off to a camp? You'll feel better. The whole idea is to make a few truthers snap under the pressure and do something stupid. Relax. All we have to do is bide our time, be clear about what we believe and what we do not endorse or support, and everything will work out. The perps are NOT the all powerful. The perps PUT the all powerful in a position that is very hard for the all powerful to deal with because it's much easier to just let the perps get away with it, as long as we who know don't spread the word and get enough people aware to demand that they fix things. But we ARE doing it. We've shown we DO care and that allowing the perps to get away with this is not going to end well for anyone, including the all powerful. I'll let you in on a little secret but you have to promise not to tell anyone because no one is supposed to know. We have won. The decision has already been made that the truth will come out. What we are doing now amounts to holding them to it and making sure it's the whole truth. They will try to get away with as little as they can but it's entirely up to us to simply speak up. Like when you end up paying a higher price because you didn't ask for a deal. There are some products and services that are routinely grossly overpriced. If you ask for a lower price they will always give you one because they will still be making a profit as opposed to if you walk away. We now have to say nope, sorry, we want more of the truth. Nope that's not enough. More. We call their bluff. The second we all start saying "oh stop being so greedy! it sounds like we have the whole truth! stop asking for more!" then we have lost. they will try therefore to manufacture consensus with as little truth revealed as possible. but we can have it all--if we demand it all if we recognize the shills and what they are tring to do which is to make us feel satisfied with a limited hangout. they're not counting on the sheeple waking up and suddenly becoming assertive. no no no, they will make the sheeple feel wise and strong--"oh! good brave sheeple! you found us out! sorry! we'll do better now-how could we not! you brave smart sheeple found us out!" The sheeple have to wake up and become wolves. Then we all, as wolves outnumbering the other wolves, tell them how it's going to be--not the other way round. We don't have to get in a big wolf fight, just acknowledge and force them to acknowledge that it's over. We're wise to ALL of it. No more Mr Nice Sheeple. OK? Just don't tell em RT told you. Or that you actually understand it all. Pretend you know nothing, and work everything to our advantage under cover. I'm telling you--it's good news. We won.
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Agreed, Jersey Jay
We are talking about a true revolution, hopefully as non-violent as possible. Let all the violence come from the perps.
I, for one, am not afraid to die for this cause, but I will not kill unless I am directly defending myself or a comrade being attacked, and then , only if I have no other choice.
We are talking about stripping away hundreds of years of corruption and wiping the slate clean. The perps will do almost anything they can to stop this from happening.
I liked your comment, but when you write something that heavy I think it best to end it on a positive note.
I hope that you and yours are well. Love is the only way forward.
Attitude is everything
As 9/11 truth muscles its way toward mainstream, we can expect that Murdoch's troops will find the topic too difficult to ignore and so go on the offensive, trying to scare people away from 9/11 activism.
But, Murdoch's group doth protest too much, methinks.
I should point out, however, that the Murdoch gang's propaganda is being used as a cover for a black op. Some group with a lot of money, power and influence is hacking and censoring 9/11 news, blogs and books, using various sly means. Now this group will be able to hide behind presumed outraged Fox News fans who will be said to be doing this dirty work.
Paul Conant
Off - Topic: What the?!?
I've only posted a couple of times on here for a couple of reasons, mainly the personalization of many of the debates. I am wholeheartedly in support of 9/11 Truth and the related issues, but I can't stand the personal jibber-jabbering. I don't know if anybody else has addressed this topic because I stopped reading most of the comments. When I started reading this site more than nine months ago the comments were my favorite part. I stopped after a little while because it got redundant. Over the past couple of days I tuned in to the comments again and saw a barrage of personal attacks that had nothing to do with evaluating 9/11 Truth. Nobody knows everything about 9/11 Truth, and most people are still learning and getting involved. A couple of the attacks happened because the points made were misunderstood, misconstrued, or because of personal arguments carried over from other blogs. Why? Posters here, and the 9/11 Truth Movement in general, would be well served by us not attacking each other. The truth is our purpose here. I want my 9/11 Truth, and I want no bullshit. This means that any angle, any evidence, any new information must be considered. As the movement gains momentum, with Rosie linking to us etc., people from all across are going to be looking to the veterans of the movement for relevant discussion and debate. Bloggers here are the front-line for those just getting involved. Please be the good examples for everybody's sake - 9/11 Truth needs cool-headed veterans to lead the newbies.
Thank you LTW for the press
Thank you LTW for the press release and shining light on the truth.
LCFC Teaser - Please Rate
http://www.vsocial.com/video/?d=85938
Site de jour:
http://Permatopia.org
Movie Trailer is TERRIBLE!
This is one of the worst trailers I've ever seen. It's a lot of unidentified and largely unknown people saying nothing, with no audio, cutting quickly from head to head.
That is not going to bring in the masses.
They better have a few more concepts for this, or else hire some professionals to get it right.
The current trailer doesn't say anything, and relies on a song that could just as easily turn people off.
70 Disturbing Facts About 9/11
John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State Blog
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/
johndoraemi --at-- yahoo.com.
it's a teaser, not a trailer
it's a teaser, not a trailer jerk.
If you say so.
Is there some technical definition of "teaser" vs. "trailer" that we should distinguish? The public can see it.
I don't take anything for granted (such as "they'll do a better version later...")
It's a bad advertisement for the movie. There are several defensible reasons for saying so.
I do not kiss people's asses because they get a lot of hits on the internet, ...jerk.
I call em like I see em, and I provide the reasons for my opinion.
70 Disturbing Facts About 9/11
John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State Blog
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/
johndoraemi --at-- yahoo.com.
ok
understood john-- and under the normal circumstances, this would not be a very good trailer. however, dylan released this as a teaser to the fans, people who know the names of the faces you saw. this is not presented as a trailer youd see in a theater, but something to show the fans that progress is certain.
_________________________________
Morgantown 9/11 Truth
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
hahaha, its a ONE MINUTE
hahaha, its a ONE MINUTE TEASER that was mainly meant for people within the movement. you really think that if and when its released in theaters they are only gonna have an amateur made minute long trailer? but hey, pile on man, its fun and easy! and the song works in my humble opinion.......
Which "trailer" are you talking about?
The short teaser just released or something else?
If the teaser, then lighten up, that was not anything resembling a real trailer.
If something else, then what?
I'm curious as I have great respect for your opinion and agree with you on just about everything related to 9/11.
I hope that you and yours are well.
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
FYI
If anyone is interested:
[removed]
His phone number and address are in google.
[dz: please do not post personal information about others on this site]
Pro-life tactics?
Since when are we employing the tactics of extreme pro-lifers? This is stupid and disturbing. I hope people will vote this down.
This isnt a tactic
JamesB issued a challenge saying that truthers were such poor researchers that we couldnt find him.
Where was this at? JREF?
Could you post a link to the original challenge?
Cheers!
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.
sigh
Whatever happened to the golden rule? Or the silver rule?
tonicblue, tonicblue
how would you feel
if this were done to you?
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
Here it is Jenny
"Not like there are many pictures of me out there. I don't obsessively video myself hanging around the house in my underwear, riding ATVs, or trying to buy subway tokens like some egomaniacs do. Although if you look hard enough you might find a picture of me somewhere, but lets face it, you guys suck at research. " Thats what JamesB said in this thread:
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8587
He got himself banned minutes later for winding Dylan up
If it wasn't a response...
Good job, tb, when I first saw JamesB's name I thought it was a bit of a low blow, but put in the perspective of him daring truthers to "do research" I'm impressed. But, I enjoy his company here, his weak points make Truthers who know their s$@# shine! And when he's here, Truthers aren't as likely to turn on each other . Wow, what a day its been on the "comment" page, bet the NSA/CIA/FBI are getting a good laugh at our noble (yet presenly powerless) rants!
this is the small world
it's in the big world outside that we have to win, so get out there and spread some truth.
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Thanks lalo
He got a little big for his boots. Five minutes after he said it I had his home address and he was banned from LC.
The problem is I still cant find a picture of him. If anyone can please do.
I did find a paper he wrote supporting the introduction of RFID chips in shops.
He is such a good little trainee NWO scumbag.
Can YOU read?
Not too long ago I said I needed an apology out of you and Pat for repeating the LIE--found at Nico's 911bloglines--that Jenny and killtwoofers(of hate blog infame) was the same person. When you refused I made sure that anyone who Googles "killtwoofers" will know the score.
I'm dredging this up because YOU seem to think psychos stalking you is a bad thing. Perhaps if you showed more moral integrity reguarding "killtwoofers", we'd care.
NOTE: I actually said ANY debunk could apologize for leaping on the "Jenny did it!" bandwagon--make a stand so to speak--and thus avoid the rath of Jenny. Their were no takers. So I posted the content of "killtwoofers" blog EVERYWHERE in the debunk universe I had time to, with a note of explaination. As I expected, Screw Loose Change(who got an extra helping of spam) banned me afterwards--but Jimbo, clearly with early alzimers, forgot all that. He claims he has NO IDEA why Pat banned me. ;-)
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.
JamesB -
I'm not happy about this situation at all. As a matter of fact I am quite distressed about it.
I will be in Seattle from May 16th or 17th through the 19th or 20th and would like to meet with you to discuss this situation peacefully, if that is amenable to you.
You can contact me through this website.
This is just getting silly stupid, y'all. EVERYONE NEEDS TO CHILL OUT, dagnabbit!
We are all brothers and sisters on this big, beautiful, blue ball.
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
Don't believe it until we DON'T see him at the event...
Patrick said something simular about the Arizona conference--"I won't have time to get there" or some such tot--and he SHOWED.
So, Jimbo, lying really bothers you does it? Clearly not enough to stop doing it yourself...
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.
On a lighter note...
In answer to your question: Is it against forum policy to say that you don't video yourself walking around in your underwear?
I was thinking I'd post of pic of me wearing only Debunking 9/11 Debunking.
Ah, well, maybe next time.....
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
Why not? I have no objections...;-)
You can post it in my blog the "Debunking 9/11Debunking" slide show! So far only RT and I are brave enough--well casseia SAYS it's just because she doesn't have a book that she hasn't joined us yet, but that's just an excuse....;-P
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.
Hey, *my* pic was on blogger before either of youse --
so shuddit, sister. :)
C'mon LW, join the party over at Jenny's blog. It's kind of a warm-up for that project someone mentioned when people will make little videos talking about why they're Truthers.
Ummm -
Even though I pride myself on being a tech geek (and a dance nerd) I have yet to post a pic in a comment (as opposed to a blog).
So'zzz how'zzz abou'zzz you'zzz all'zzz tell'n me'zzz how'zzz to do it, okay'zzz?
That said, I'm willing to bet (the drink of your choice, to all takers) that ANY pic of me will bring this site down.
ROFLMAO
(Did I mention that there is a store at the bottom of my hill that sells all kinds of CHOCOLATE?)
Who knows about good places to dance in Ashland, Portland and/or Seattle? Live music and spacious wood floors, ideally. Blues, jazz, funk, African, Brasilian, Latin, Asian, real hip hop or anything played well and played from the heart. I like and can dance to it all. Yowza!
Thanks for reminding me, I need to bring my camera on my road trip to start recording the "I'm a Truther" series. Who's game?
(mmmm, dark with just a hint of raspberry)
(now where did I leave those ruby slippers?)
Don't worry, I've had all my shots (for this planet, anyway).
dude your pic has already been posted here
Don't you read my blogs? :P
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
Of course I read your blogs
I believe they were talking about a pic of me with Debunking 9/11 Debunking and not this old thing:
This is the pic you're referring to, yes? What a great day that was.
And now I've figured out how to put pics in comments, thanks bro!
Now I just have to figure out where to host the pic. It's always something. LOL
Not sure if I'll see you later today (Friday), my van's still in the shop getting ready for the trip to Seattle this weekend.
Keep up the great work.
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward
Yep
Just slap a pic of Griffin's book over that... no one will notice. TV fakery, easy peasy.
Dude, I really hope I see you later today.
Do you have to stay in the shop with your van?
Golden Gate Transit, yo.
I can't wait to get out in front of ABC.
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
ps
If you need anything hosted just send it to me.
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
Respect
I have a lot of respect for the Loose Change guys. I really enjoyed watching them kick the shit out the Popular Mechanic demons on Democracy Now.