Rep. Suder Plays the Anti-Semitism Card, plus some AP coverage.
Ok, as I pointed out yesterday, 9/11 and American Empire Vol. II is not an anti-Semitic volume. However, that didn't stop State Rep. Suder from issuing this press release;
Rep. Suder: UW Must Fire Barrett Now
10/10/2006For more information, contact: State Representative Scott Suder
608-267-0280Anti-Semitic Textbook is Required Reading in Barrett’s Class
Madison – Recent news accounts of the “textbook” being used by University of Wisconsin Lecturer Kevin Barrett has prompted State Representative Scott Suder (R-Abbotsford) to once again call for Barrett’s firing.
According to a recent news story, a required textbook for students in Barrett's introductory class on Islam features Barrett's fictitious 9/11 conspiracy theory, harsh criticism of the nation of Israel and compares President Bush to Adolf Hitler. Suder has once again called upon the Governor and the Board of Regents to put an end to what has become a continuing national embarrassment for the UW System.
Suder commented after a WKOW Channel 27 News expose detailed the book, “9/11 and American Empire: Muslims, Jews, and Christians Speak Out." The book features Barrett’s mythical notion of the events of September 11th among essays written by fourteen others.
(More after the jump...)
“Jim Doyle’s Board of Regents continues to allow this hateful individual to tarnish the reputation of the University of Wisconsin,” stated Suder. He continued, “The book described in this news story is anti-Semitic and totally revisionist. It’s simply repugnant.”
Suder added, “As recently as last week, Jim Doyle claimed that he wants Kevin Barrett fired. Doyle appointed the Regents who continue to stand behind Barrett’s employment. The Governor could pick up the phone and have Barrett fired today but instead gives lip service where action is needed.”
I'm sure Rep. Suder would love to hear from you;
http://www.legis.state.wi.us/assembly/asm69/asm69.html
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A new AP story helps Barrett and Interlink Publishing sell more books; (rate it up)
UW instructor compares Bush to Hitler
By CARRIE ANTLFINGER, Associated Press Writer 28 minutes ago
MILWAUKEE - A university instructor who came under scrutiny for arguing that the U.S. government orchestrated the Sept. 11 attacks likens
President Bush to Adolf Hitler in an essay his students are being required to buy for his course.
The essay by Kevin Barrett, "Interpreting the Unspeakable: The Myth of 9/11," is part of a $20 book of essays by 15 authors, according to an unedited copy first obtained by WKOW-TV in Madison and later by The Associated Press.
The book's title is "9/11 and American Empire: Muslims, Jews, and Christians Speak Out." It is on the syllabus for Barrett's course at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, "Islam: Religion and Culture," but only three of the essays are required reading, not including Barrett's essay.
Barrett, a part-time instructor who holds a doctorate in African languages and literature and folklore from UW-Madison, is active in a group called Scholars for 9/11 Truth. The group's members say U.S. officials, not al-Qaida terrorists, were behind the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001.
"Like Bush and the neocons, Hitler and the Nazis inaugurated their new era by destroying an architectural monument and blaming its destruction on their designated enemies," he wrote.
Barrett said Tuesday he was comparing the attacks to the burning of the German parliament building, the Reichstag, in 1933, a key event in the establishment of the Nazi dictatorship.
"That's not comparing them as people, that's comparing the Reichstag fire to the demolition of the World Trade Center, and that's an accurate comparison that I would stand by," he said.
He added: "Hitler had a good 20 to 30 IQ points on Bush, so comparing Bush to Hitler would in many ways be an insult to Hitler."
Moira Megargee, publicity director for the Northampton, Mass., publisher Interlink, said the book is due out at the end of November and the editing isn't finished.
"It is not final and for all we know that essay may not be in the book or may be edited," she said.
The university's decision to allow Barrett to teach the course touched off a controversy over the summer once his views became widely known.
Sixty-one state legislators denounced the move. One county board cut its funding for the UW-Extension by $8,247 — the amount Barrett will earn for teaching the course — in a symbolic protest, even though the course is unrelated to that branch of the UW System.
Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle and his Republican challenger, Mark Green, have both said they believe Barrett should be fired.
One essay Barrett is requiring students to read is entitled: "A Clash Between Justice and Greed," and argues that conflicts between Islam and the western world were made up after the "collapse of the Soviet Union to justify U.S. 'defense' spending, and to provide a pretext of controlling the world's resources."
The author of another essay, "Interpreting Terrorism: Muslim Problem or Covert Operations Nightmare?," contends some western intelligence agencies are commiting acts of terrorism to make them look like the work of radical Islamics.
The university's chief academic officer, Provost Patrick Farrell, decided to retain Barrett for the course after reviewing his plans and qualifications. He said Barrett could present his ideas during one week of the course as long as students were allowed to challenge them.
He later warned Barrett to stop seeking publicity for his personal political views.
Farrell said he has not seen the essay, but faculty can assign readings that may not be popular to everyone.
"I think part of the role of any challenging course here is going to encourage students to think of things from a variety of perspectives," he said.
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it's a fight over history books
Because their propaganda has already failed with the current population, they're desperately trying to control the teaching materials in order to at least fool the next generation into believing their 9/11lie. When we are gone, 9/11 truth will go to the grave with it - the ultimate cover-up..
yeah right, good luck!
Kids are some of the most aware of 9/11 Truth--they are teaching their teachers about it. What 13 year old is going to fear "the man" or warrantless wiretaps or being sent to Gitmo? The conspirators are slowly realizing that their assumptions about their power and control over people were, um, a little optimistic? I think there will be much call for recycling services once the purge of fake history begins. For shame, evil conspirators and their cowardly and traitorous apologists! That means you, McCain! And you, Hillary! You are NOT gods, you are CRIMINALS, and we will NEVER FORGET 9.11.01
You had a chance to do the right thing. You didn't you chose... poorly. And we will not let you forget it, ever. The shame you have brought on your children and grandchildren will be a lasting stain on your family names.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
just made drudge report
just made drudge report
9/11 - Holocaust Parallels
when you think about it, the holocaust has alot in common with 9/11:
-TPTB behind it weren't who we were told they were.
-The facts are dubious at best.
-Taking a rigorous look at the evidence and/or proposing revisionist theories re what really happened is even more taboo than with 9/11 at this point; it can actually get you locked up, incommunicado! Recently we heard Bush suggest that 9/11 Truthers are terrorist recruiters. Challenging the veracity of the official myth is probably soon to be outlawed, as it is with the holocaust. The truth does not need laws to protect it. Big Lies do.
-Holocaust: Qui Bono? Israel tops the list (the justification for Israel's creation).
-9/11: Qui Bono? Israel tops the list.
-The official Holocaust myth (6M Jews...), "anti-Semitism" and the "neo-nazi threat" which ADL seeks to continually puff up, is used to unite Jews against a "shadowy outside enemy" (those filthy anti-Semites under every rock who want to do you harm! booga booga!). It's an elaborate deception designed to dupe good rank and file Jews to unite behind all things Zionist, a racist imperialist genocidal agenda which good moral Jews would not otherwise support. 9/11 serves the same function for John and Jane American, cynically using deceptively manufactured fear of a shadowy outside enemy, to dupe them into supporting racist imperialist genocidal wars.
-Holocaust Revisionists are tagged with a deliberately misleading, specially engineered MEME: "Holocaust Deniers". I've occasionally heard 9/11 Revisionists, aka 9/11 Truthers, labeled 9/11 Deniers" by those shilling for the official story. And yes, the really pathetic shills even roll out the worn out "anti-Semitic" smear for 9/11 Truth Seekers, as we see in this story. Yawn.
"worn out "anti-Semitic" smear "? - Hypocrite
If this kind of post is tolerated here, then "9/11 Truth" deserves all the smearing it gets.
"Please follow these basic guidelines to avoid having posts or blog entries removed:
Do not post entries that are abusive, offensive, contain profane or racist material, or resort to attacking other users."
Which part you disagree with?
What do you mean by "this kind of post", and which part of the post do you disagree with, assuming that's your beef?
As to your subject line, "worn out "anti-Semitic" smear "? - Hypocrite, isn't this Rep. Suder worm abusing the "anti-Semitic" smear yet again, in another totally vaccuous hit piece? Doesn't this very sort of abuse of the engineered "anti-Semitic" meme, insulting everyone's intelligence in the process, cause the eventual "wearing out" of the meme-- as has long since happened? Sort of quick to lay the "Hypocrite" smear on others, no, jfal?? Little bit of projection going on there, jfal??
Let the Neo-Nazis Self-Destruct
jfal, don't waste your time...you are essentially dealing with Neo-Nazis who are trying to piggyback on the 9/11 truth movement.
They know if they just stood up and said they were Neo-Nazis, they could never claim "censorship" when people naturally reacted with disgust.
So instead, they look for "parallels" and call the Holocaust the "Holo-Hoax", and end up dragging the 9/11 truth movement down.
But they don't care, because their only objective is to spread smears.
Rather than debate them, just let them choke on their own vomit.
Let's spend out effort in uncovering the Bush cabal and it's 9/11 caper.
Precious! LOL
"Shalom", a self professed Zionist, busting out the very MOs which make the Zionists/NeoCons so lovable: dishonest smearing your critics as being anti-Semitic, neo-nazi, holocaust denier, hitler lover, blah blah, & projecting onto your critics the very racism & dishonesty you're so brazenly guilty of. The best defense is a good offense, eh Shalom? jfal?
It's such a patheticly worn out, transparent schtick; it's no wonder Truth Seekers are waking up and telling your types where to stick it.
Aren't you the one using
Aren't you the one using smears, calling people Neo-Nazis?
That's the only content in your post, smear that is.
Great post.
yes, there are many parallels. In Europe, you go to jail for having a different view on the big H or on the verdicts from the Nuremberg trials. Imagine, how cracy this is! Having a different view on an event that happend 60 years ago and you get prison time!!!
There are many exemples. Germar Rudolf, Siegfried Verbeke, David Irving and recently Robert Faurisson just got fined for something he said in Iranian media.
I can easily imagine in the future 911 dissent becoming illegal.
Don't forget Ernst
Don't forget Ernst Zundel,
10/6/6:
Amazing Uproar In The Zundel Thought Crime Trial
"...After all, the court intoned over and over, the Holocaust could not be anything but "self-evident" and should not, could not, and would not be put to the test!
The Holocaust happened and
The Holocaust happened and the Nazis, not the Zionists, were responsible for it. Posts like this one only serve to confuse the issue and to link rancid anti-semitism to those who question the official story about the attacks of September 11th.
Misterguy, since you insist....
http://www.amazon.com/51-Documents-Zionist-Collaboration-Nazis/dp/156980...
This book seems to be pretty popular, written by a Jew, and making the case that Zionists collaborated with Hitler. This is not rancid as you call it, this is honest and fearless inquiry--exactly what 9/11 Truth is all about. To suggest that someone would go along with the official version of 9/11 because some Truthers have learned to look for truth beyond 9/11 is just silly. Anyone who would say to themselves "hmmmm, since people who question the holocaust also question 9/11, I should ignore all evidence that Muslims are innocent of the crimes" is not someone who will be doing much good for the truth movement. And that's even presupposing that it is wrong to question the holocaust in the first place, which obviously it is not unless you want to live in some kind of crimethink-free paradise.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Well like it or not people
Well like it or not people aren't always rational, and the fallacy of association while illogical is often effective rhetorically.
For instance, you falsely associate the question of Zionist collaborators with Holocaust denial, but those two propositions are not the same, and as far as I know Brenner is not a Holocaust denier.
I think it would help if you defined Holocaust Denier
1) someone who claims no Jews were killed by Nazis
2) someone who claims that there has been exaggeration of the crimes of the Nazis, however bad they were originally (i.e. no lampshades made)
If you say 1, then please name some names because I know of none who espouse that view.
If you say 2, then please use a more accurate term to describe those poeple who in fact are not denying the holocaust.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
You are mudding the waters here.
Don't be ridiculous.
We are certainly claiming that no Jews were killed by the Nazis IN AN EXTERMINATION PROGRAM.
There is a good definition on the holocoast.
1. Nazis used gaschambers to kill Jews.
2. The Nazis had an extermination program for Jews.
3. 6 million Jews + ( 5 million non-jews) wre exterminated in this program.
Those who like myself deny these three points are holocaust deniers.
To ask if the Nazis killed one Jew in the middle of a world war is not very relevant.
But if they were never going to be let out of the camps
And they were all being rounded up and sent to camps, then there would seem to be a desire on the part of Nazis to, if not gas them, then work them to death, and whether you want to call that extermination or not is a semantic argument. This is my point--it's obvious that bad things were done to Jews and others by the Nazis. the question is--how many of those bad things are true, and what role if any was played by Zionists who knew they could use Nazi crimes to get their lusted-after state?
Now that pagan and shalom have joined the party we may not be able to have a reasonable discussion, but I will repeat what I said before--the stories we were told as kids about lampshades and soap made out of Jews are not true. David Cole's video seriously undermines the existence of a "gas chamber" at Auschwitz, and the giant ovens of lore may have been just that.
This is not to say that the Nazis did not mean to rid Germany of Jews, they very much seemed to have wanted to. Ironically, the Zionists had a similar vision, just tack on "and send them to Palestine to use as cannon fodder for our new state". That's why Zionists insisted on Palestine or nowhere when America and Britain both offered to take in refugees.
Were Nazis evil? Of frikkin course! Are Zionists evil? Hells yeah! Are they both fascists? Yup! Do some people prefer to call others names with no basis in reason to discussing facts? Uh HUH! Especially people who find that the facts aren't on their side.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Can you summarize the
Can you summarize the supposed evidence in Cole's video?
Do your research, RealTruther...
"And they were all being rounded up and sent to camps, then there would seem to be a desire on the part of Nazis to, if not gas them, then work them to death, and whether you want to call that extermination or not is a semantic argument." -Real Truther
Do your research on the issue, RT. Take a break from 9/11 stuff and read Arthur Butz's book. The only place you will find Jews being "worked to death" is in Steven Spielberg movies.
The Nazis had a large camp system-- as did the U.S. and the Soviet Union. The vast majority of the inmates were not Jews. Most of the inmates in the German camps were Russian POWs. Their labor was vitally important to the German war effort. Infectious diseases like typhus took a great toll on the camp population. There is ample evidence that the Germans did everything they could to maintain the health of the inmates. One of the measures taken was to cremate the bodies of disease victims as soon as possible, using large ovens. Some of the "Allied" (Zionist) investigators came upon these ovens after the war and an idea popped into their heads.
The effort to maintain health standards in the camps became impossible in the final months of the war as Germany was bombed incessantly under the Allies' demand for unconditional surrender. The camp systems broke down and inmates began to starve. That is the condition in which they were discovered when the occupiers rolled in. Many photographs were taken of heaps of corpses and gaunt survivors, and the Holocaust Legend was born.
Dude what I'm saying is...
That anyone in a prison camp during a war is not going to be getting out unless their captors lose. Basically prisoners for life, no? Now what I admit I don't know is how aggressively did Nazis prevent Jews from simply leaving. Obviously there was nastiness towards Jews, and that doesn't mean that it was just racial hatred, I'm sure it was in part a response to Zionist hostility towards Germany during and after WWI, at least that's what Benjamin Freedman (also Jewish) used to argue. My point is less that I know a lot, it's that I know enough to stand firmly for open debate and discussion without ridiculous taboos. So I welcome people on all sides to set the record straight, though of course a 9/11 blog is not the best place and by this point we are way off topic even for this thread!
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Israel backed by army of cyber-soldiers
Israel backed by army of cyber-soldiers
"...Israel’s Government has thrown its weight behind efforts by supporters to counter what it believes to be negative bias and a tide of pro-Arab propaganda. The Foreign Ministry has ordered trainee diplomats to track websites and chatrooms so that networks of US and European groups with hundreds of thousands of Jewish activists can place supportive messages...."
more:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,174-2289232,00.html
Email this dumb ass
rep.suder@legis.state.wi.us
Please stop harrasing Kevin Barret- even I, as a non-believing atheist or monism church critical share his views.
Stop beeing a traitor and posing for the Zionist who own you.
Get a man! Get your facts straight!
http://theunjustmedia.com/stranger_than_fiction%20table%20of%20contents.htm
Kind regards
Sitting-Bull
Germany
URGENT ALERT!
URGENT ALERT!
A new AP story helps Barrett and Interlink Publishing sell more books; (rate it up)
UW instructor compares Bush to Hitler
By CARRIE ANTLFINGER, Associated Press Writer 28 minutes ago
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Someone should promptly write to Carrie about the inconvenient fact
she sheeplishly avoided that the the Veterans for 9/11 truth issued a check for those $8K..
details about the check here:
http://www.911blogger.com/node/3366
video of this event Fetzer gives the check to Barrett is in here (I'm not sure about timing I think it's after the Kevin's segment):
http://wokensheeple.blogspot.com/2006/10/james-fetzer-and-kevin-barrett-...
I checked her she is for
I checked her she is for some time with the MILWAUKEE (AP) bureau..
Scanning web for her email or contact..
AP's employeed email formats
AP's employeed email formats here:
http://www.photojournalism.org/ap.html
Amazing...
Here's an article from a Jew that both supports the 9/11 Truth Movement, and is a friend of Kevin Barrett's...
The 9/11 Truth Movement Is Not Anti-Semitic And Neither Is Ray McGovern
You'll see that Kevin Barrett featured this article prominently on his website.
http://www.mujca.com/pentagonplane.htm
Go *($*# yourself Suder.
___________________________________
"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
Mr. Suder
I wrote Mr. Sudar a nice letter from here in Iowa. I basically told him to do his own research as the official accounting is total bullshit, only I made it sound more professional......lol. That ASS!
Good read, Jon
but I need to ask you something. In regards to:
"I see people who do try to push anti-semitic views onto the movement, but luckily, the majority of the movement is smarter than that. We are smarter than the Weekly Standard would lead you to believe. We want anyone and everyone who was involved to be held held [typo alert!] accountable. Be it Christian, Jew, Neocon or Zionist, we want accountability. Period."
I'd like to know your opinion on where anti-semitism begins, and consequently where accountability ends. For example this discussion on here - what's your take on it? Basically, do you feel that the Holocaust is off limits, and discussion about it qualifies as anti-semitism, or do you feel that it's acceptable to question its veracity? If we demand complete accountability, this topic just can not be avoided, controversial and emotionally laden as it might be. After all, just like 9/11, it was a decisive event on a grand scale - and if it were a deception, this would be extremely significant, even still today.
So, in case its investigation was considered anti-semitic, we could either have political correctness or complete accountability. I feel a little awkward for bringing this up, but this is how I see it. And sooner or later, it will have to be discussed.
[Disclaimer: I really hold no grudges against any particular religion, people, race, or anything else that indiscriminating. Likewise, I don't think it's sensible to exclude members of any such particular group from scrutiny, for the same reasons - we're all human, some of us love justice, some of us love money, some of us love their fellow beings, some of us don't. That's all there is to it.]
9/11 has taught us that NOTHING can be off-limits
Lack of discussion, not offensive discussion, is what causes lies to fester and grow. We will be discussing the holocaust soon, and we will be doing so in a spirit of unity, not recrimination. There are plenty of Jewish holocaust revisionists. See the following:
David Cole at Auschwitz
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9176742040462080597&q=david+cole...
I too feared to "go there" as it were, but when you realize that there is much truth being hidden, you lose the fear of being tarred by association with unsavory people because you realize that the lies hurt Jews, they do not help them. The neo-nazis are the perfect cover for the liars, they prevent honest people from looking at real facts.
Again, 9/11 Truth does not begin or end on september 11, 2001. It is Truth 911, EMERGENCY TRUTH. We need the lying to stop or we have no hope as a species.
It's that simple, and I encourage folks to be brave and continue to speak out and stand up in a positive spirit. You will find that it just keeps getting easier and more fulfilling the farther you get from the lies and the false reality we were all a part of at one point. the search for truth is eternal and joyful and we must make sure that is how it is seen because that is how it IS.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
I think I got it
After watching the David Cole video some lights went on. I studied WW2 in depth for a while but now that I know the media, history books, etc.,all have been manipulated by a greater force I question/doubt everything when it comes to our government . The connections from Nazi Germany to the Bush family is no fluke. Watching 'From Freedom to Fascism' was very telling. If 9/11, among a lot of other things, was pulled off by entities in the US government, you have to ask, who controls the government. Who with that kind of power, to dictate like that. Answer, the banks. The very rich and very powerful banks. That's who. And who is in control of the banks? The Jews. Enter mossad. I'm not the least bit anti-Semitic either, it's just the facts. It's all coming together. I no longer believe a lot of what I used to believe. It's a really old plot that just seems to grow and continue thru lies, deceit, and deception. Where there's .....you know.
I would avoid the term "The Jews"
Because "the Jews" no more control "the Banks" than "the Muslims" direct "the global terror threat".
Certainly throughout history Jews have been strongly represented in the worlds of money, and that in part has to do with their being denied entry into other worlds of business activity. If out of those circumstances a global monetarist mafia has arisen that includes many Jews, I suppose it could at worst be called a Jewish mafia but again,"this says absolutely nothing about "the Jews".
It's like pointing out a black, latino, or asian street gang and saying "look at how the [blacks/asians/latinos] have ruined this neighborhood." It betrays a certain racist tendency to ascribe the actions of individuals to their ethnic background, which is unfair and makes little sense.
Now, in the information age control over information and control over money are two things along with control over weapons and control over essential resources that we should all be concerned about. Control over these things should be as democratic as possible, not the business of little cabals whether or not they be made up of one group primarily or any other.
To defend a corrupt system because of who the corrupt people are is the danger of this throwing around of the "anti-semite" slur. We cannot and should not tolerate that any more than we should tolerate the practice of referring to groups as "the Jews" which only serves to invite the anti-semite slur in response, and understandably so. Of course these are difficult issues to discuss concretely and effectively. but we can't shy away from it any longer, and we will all be better off for it, so stand your ground, folks, AND keep it amiable!
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
You're right...
Thank you for correcting me. Like I said ,I'm not anti anyone. Somebody, I don't care what race they are, has been pulling the big strings around the US for a long time. And it's not the President, he's on a string. From freedom to Fascism is a real eye-opener and I think it ties up with 9/11.
Neo-Nazis Don't Want Censorship
By your rules, even Nazism can be propounded in this forum, or else it is "censorship".
Why not be a man, and admit you are a Nazi ?
Anti-Semitism...
Begins the moment someone accuses someone of doing something just because they are Jewish.
The Holocaust did happen. Whether it was 500,000 or 6,000,000 Jews that were killed, it did happen.
Personally, I tend to think that the higher number is more accurate. Considering I had family members who were there, and shared their experiences with me.
The Holocaust and 9/11 have nothing to do with one another.
If you want to compare the Nazi Regime to the Bush Regime, why not use the election process that got them into power? Why not use the Enabling Act, and the Patriot Act? Why not use the Reichstag Fire, and 9/11?
I don't understand why someone would try and argue for the Nazi Regime in trying to say that "they only killed 500,000." Why would anyone even think of making that argument?
That's like saying the 600,000 Iraqis that have died as a result of our invasion is perfectly acceptable.
Sorry, I don't think that way.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
9/11 also happened
The question, Jon, is everything we have been taught about it true? There is evidence that Zionists collaborated with the Nazis because they knew it would eventually help them get their "Jewish state". Is that irrelevant? There is also evidence that however horrible what happened to Jews, Gypsies, gays, communists, etc. at the hands of the Nazis, there has arisen a "holocaust industry" that tarnishes the memory of the dead. Norman Finkelstein has written powerfully on this subject, and his mother and father survived the Nazi camps. Of course real anti-semitism exists as does real anti-Islamicism and anti-hispanicism and anti-blackism, and even, yes, anti-whitism. I realize this is getting way off topic but I'm glad the issue was brought up because 9/11 and the holocaust are very often lumped together by the other side for some reason, so don't blame us for addressing the issue!
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Sorry, but...
This discussion reminds me of the 30,000-50,000 our Government tells us have been killed in Iraq, when the reality is that it's more like 600,000.
As if the lesser amount makes the murders acceptable.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
It's not about numbers, it's about motive.
You're making the same mistake as the AntiWar people, who think 9/11 was irrelevant because "only" 3.000 people perished. The question is: Was there a concerted, nationwide effort to exterminate them? That's the essence of the Holocaust meme, isn't it?
Actually no...
I'm saying ONE death is one too many.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
Sure
I think we can all agree that murder is never justified. That was not the question, though.
"Was there a concerted, nationwide effort to exterminate them?"
Was everyone in Germany trying to go around murdering as many Jews as they could? No.
Was there Einsatzgruppen going around killing Jews? Yes.
Did the Wannsee Conference take place? You bet your _ss it did.
I don't understand what this has to do with 9/11. You wonder why the other side compares the 9/11 Truth Movement with "Holocaust Deniers", and here were are, discussing the validity of claims brought forward about the Holocaust.
___________________________________
"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
see my post below for why they are related
Sacred cows have a way of trampling the truth. I don't wonder why the other side compares the two, I know why they do it. Because they want to link the two sacred cows in people's minds. That is their mistake because linking the holocaust to 9/11 in people's minds, when 9/11 was an obvious and evil hoax, would not seem to be good strategy on the part of those who believe the holocaust happened, lampshades and all, as advertised. As soon as I see that a subject becomes taboo (how many times has the holocaust/9-11 connection been discussed on this site? twice?) I will be moving my truthing on to freer pastures and I have no doubt others will as well. On a post about Kevin Barrett, who analyses myth creation with regard to 9/11 and also compares Bush to Hitler, it seems natural that this issue would come up in comments. Is that really such a big deal? Should we censor ourselves for the sake of not offending people who want to shut out of their minds anything that doesn't jibe with what they've been taught, even if it's wrong? Is that any way to go about handling the issue of 9/11 truth? Of course not! Now, if someone were to constantly post blog posts or comments exclusively about Holocaust revisionism, we could say they should do so elsewhere. But suggesting that we should avoid certain topics sure smells Kos'y to me, and also serves to foment suspicion that certain things are being covered up. Like if we were to say, let's stop discussing Pakistani funding of fake terrorists who had nothing to do with the demolition of the WTC, because that just makes us look like anti-Pakistani fanatics. I'm kidding of course, but the sh*t cuts both ways, Jon.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Playing the Anti-Semitism card...
....accomplishes a couple of different purposes....
One, because it is such an inflammatory, off-topic slur...it slows the attacked Truther down as he has to defend himself against such a scurrilous charge...so, he spends time talking about the charge and not 9/11. The smearer achieves two purposes, denigrating the messenger and diverting the topic.
Two, as has been pointed out on this blogg, it insulates Zionists (whether they be Israeli or American) from investigation and accountablity. As far as Cui Bono goes, everyone is aware that Americans are now killing (and being killed by) Israel's Muslim enemies, justified by 9/11.
And as many as 15 Neo-Cons have dual US-American Citizenship, these people are members of either one of or both PNAC or this Administration that elected to pursue these elective, optional wars of illegal aggression.
The viciousness of playing the Anti-Semitism card at every early opportunity makes one wonder even more about Iraeli involvement in 9/11. Why are the accusors so quick to become defensive about a real investigation into what happened that day, if their interests had nothing to do with it?
From what I have experienced, 9/11 Truth is Anti-Crime, not Anti-Semitic.....the question about possible Zionist complicity is just one aspect in a much larger discussion.
thank you altruist, very very correct!
We need to keep it civil and better yet, amiable.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
the questions as I see them are...
1) did Zionists in any way aid the Nazis in order to win support for their blasphemous "Jewish state" idea?
and
2) were Jews exterminated systematically as opposed to put in labor camps to feed the Nazi war machine. In other words, were accounts of gas chambers and huge ovens fabricated like claims of lampshades and other items made out of the skin of Jews. Serious scholars no longer claim that ever happened. Shouldn't we want as accurate an account of history as possible without regard to political correctness, especially given the fact that certain folks have used the horrors of that era to profit personally?
I think that the plan has always been to make 9/11into "America's Little Holocaust", with laws against questioning it just like some countries now imprison anyone questioning the specifics of the holocaust. Truth doesn't need laws to protect it, or mass media propaganda. The bogus Bush/PNAC account of 9/11 has needed crutches galore and STILL it is crumbling. That's a function of our having the internet, which was not around for past distortions of history. It is unreasonable to think that 9/11 is the first and only time such a big lie has been told for political expediency. We know OK City was also lied about. And so many other things. Surely, as the Daily Kos likes to point out, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Where is the evidence for hijackers boarding flight on 9/11? Or for a gas chamber at Auschwitz, or for huge ovens for cremating masses of people?
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Signed
that's just my opinion
Yes, Jews were exterminated
Yes, Jews were exterminated systematically as were Gypsies and Homosexuals and Communists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Himmler_report.jpg
Now stop linking Holocaust denial to legitimate research into what happened on 9/11.
And yes gas was used.
And yes gas was used.
How do you respond to David Cole's video of Auschwitz?
It seems to make clear that the "gas chamber" there may well not have been a "gas chamber". And since David is Jewish, I wonder what you think his motive might be to cover this topic? Self-hate? Making money on the neo-Nazi lecture circuit? I don't get it. I do see, however, why the existence of Jewish holocaust revisionists might not be something that goes over well in certain circles...
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
David Cole has recanted on
David Cole has recanted on that subject. He says that he was motivated by self-hatred when he used to be a Holocaust denier.
http://www.jdl.org/action/action/cole_letter.shtml
You tell me what this sounds like. Does the word "duress"
ring a bell? Or how about stalking and threatening? Again, the truth doesn't need a gang of thugs to defend it.
When JDL made its debut on the Internet, it featured a hard-hitting essay about Cole by Robert J. Newman. Later on, a photo of Cole (pictured right) was added to the page. More recently, JDL offered a reward for information leading to the whereabouts of Cole.
Cole recently called JDL's national office in Los Angeles and begged JDL Chairman Irv Rubin to remove the negative piece from the site because he was afraid for his life and the relatives he supposedly is taking care of. Cole claims that he has been living in a secret location on the east coast for the past three years -- although he is temporarily in Southern California -- and has left Holocaust denying far behind him. He also says he is doing everything in his power to prevent his former cohort from using the Auschwitz video and other related anti-Semitic propaganda.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Same JDL, right? According to the FBI they are terrorists...
September 22, 2005
JEWISH DEFENSE LEAGUE OFFICER SENTENCED TO 20 YEARS IN FEDERAL PRISON FOR INVOLVEMENT IN TWO BOMB PLOTS
Los Angeles, CA - A leader of the Jewish Defense League who admitted his role in two criminal conspiracies to manufacture and detonate bombs at a mosque and a Congressman's field office was sentenced this morning to 20 years in federal prison, the statutory maximum for his two counts of conviction.
Earl Leslie Krugel, 62, of Reseda, California, was sentenced by United States District Judge Ronald S.W. Lew. In sentencing the JDL member, Judge Lew recognized that Krugel's actions contributed to an atmosphere of ethnic hatred in the period following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
Krugel pleaded guilty in 2003 to conspiring to bomb the King Fahd Mosque in Culver City with the purpose of preventing the congregants from using their house of worship. Krugel also pleaded guilty to one count of carrying an explosive in relation to a conspiracy to bomb a field office of United States Congressman Darrell Issa.
United States Attorney Debra Wong Yang said: "The Department of Justice is committed to preventing acts of terrorism. The violent plans in this case were rooted in religious and racial hatred, which have no place in our society."
"Conspiring to destroy a house of worship and harm individuals based on their race or religion is a disgraceful assault on American values," said Bradley J. Schlozman, Acting Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division. "We are committed to protecting all Americans from racially motivated crimes."
In a plea agreement filed in federal court in Los Angeles, Krugel admitted that he conspired with JDL leader Irving David Rubin, who committed suicide while awaiting trial on charges in this case. As part of the conspiracy, Krugel recruited a young man to join the JDL and later to participate in bomb schemes that would target Arab political and religious institutions. That person later contacted the FBI and became an informant.
The informant attended a meeting with Krugel and Rubin on October 19, 2001, where they discussed bombing Arab institutions, including the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC). During subsequent meetings in October and November, the informant was instructed to locate and photograph the MPAC office in Los Angeles. The informant was also instructed to purchase some of the bomb components, including a particular brand of gunpowder and pipes. Krugel later stored all of the bomb components in his garage.
In the days leading up to the planned bombing, Rubin told the informant that the target would be a Los Angeles-area mosque, rather than the MPAC office. At the final meeting between the defendants and the informant on December 11, 2001, Rubin said that the targets would be the King Fahd Mosque in Culver City and one of the offices of Congressman Issa.
Rubin and Krugel were arrested by members of the Los Angeles Joint Terrorism Task Force after the final meeting.
This case is the result of an investigation by the Los Angeles Joint Terrorism Task Force, which includes the Federal Bureau of Investigation; the Los Angeles Police Department; the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department; the United States Secret Service; the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement; IRS-Criminal Investigation and the Monrovia Police Department.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
"lumped together for some reason"
The reason is clear: They want to shield 9/11 with the all-purpose anti-semitism umbrella which they created. And evidently, it's a very effective tool, as the conditioning runs so deep...
Well...
that means you don't view revisionism as antisemitic per se, which I applaud.
But I have to say that the Holocaust, while not being directly connected with 9/11, is very important because it granted such an enormous "moral capital" to certain parties, a moral capital that is still being constantly debited. Could AIPAC and the ADL wield the amount of power they undoubtedly have without it? What made them immune from scrutiny? What happened to these two professors who scrutinized the lobby? See where I'm going with this?
Even if Hitler killed 1 Jew
Even if Hitler killed 1 Jew because of the fact they were Jewish it would be reprehensible.
Even if Hitler killed one Jew because he was a midget...
it would be reprehensible. Same as every time Israel kills people because they are Palestinian it is reprehensible. Or anytime Americans kill an Iraqi because he is Iraqi. What we need to get beyond is the argument that killing is ever a good thing, or justified. It is obviously not.
Anti-semitism as an idea that Jews are only ever targeted solely for being Jewish and for no other reason is not just dishonest, it is an excuse used by criminals who happen to be Jewish in order to discredit their accusers. If Jewish people fail to acknowledge this fact, they are simply helping to fuel suspicion that Jews can't be trusted to be impartial with regard to Jews who commit crimes. The Zionists are professional apologists for any criminal who commits crimes in the name of Israel. This is a problem. This is not racist, Jfal, it is a discussion that reasonable people can and must have in order to fix what's wrong with the world.
When it seemed that 9/11 was the work of Muslims, as it still is by many, very few people actually said that talking about the crimes of some Muslims was anti-Islamic. This is the unconscionable double standard that so many people can't even acknowledge exists. But exist it does, and 9/11 has brought the issue to the fore. Dodging it and tarring those who engage the issue regardless of their approach as racists, anti-semites, or whatever slur someone may choose is irresponsible in the extreme, and moreover, it is at this point counterproductive since the taboo is on its last legs and invoking it will soon be a liability, not an effective weapon.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Excellent....
Everytime some shill invokes this tactic, it needs to be immediately exposed as the spewing of "a ludicrous, vile distractionary slur, meant to deflect honest inquiry".
Righteous indignation, not defensive flailing...mock them for even trying it....
Or something like that...
Right on.
I'll tell you who IS anti-semitic, or to use a more accurate term, anti-Jewish. It is the Zionists who go around making asses out of Jews by feeding them disinformation so that they will defend Israel, and believe the worst things about their Arab and Muslim brothers. When Jews then are duped into supporting these animals, they naturally end up looking just like white trash who are duped into blaming black people and yes, Jews, for all their woes. Can we then blame anyone who walks around thinking "geez, why can't Jews see how bad Israel actually is?"
This situation is akin to the way western and Israeli intelligence agencies also encourage extremism on the part of muslims by pre-fabricating terror cells and recruiting the young and/or stupid to carry out the attacks that justify (in the minds of some) the overblown "retaliation" that enables the seizure of oil, land, water, and anything else the fascists want for their corporate cronies.
People on BOTH sides, make that ALL sides had better wise up to these divide and conquer strategies, because PNAC and Co.s plan has always been to eventually create enough real terrorism so as to have to fake it as little as possible. It is thus extremely important for folks not to assume that they have to always be on the side of people who look like or are named like or smell like them. Racism is pure evil, and it is practiced routinely.
Nothing makes me more sad than encountering young Jewish kids who are trying to defend the official version of 9/11 because they are told to by adults who know better. All attempts to help them see the light are taken as anti-semitic bluster and they fall ever deeper into a pit that will take them years to climb out of if they ever do. The day will come sooner than people think when it will be understood that Israel was the second worst thing ever to happen to Jews, and ironically it was the first worst that secured its creation. The last five years have proven how both Israel's and America's corrupt governments have been used by an international mafia (sorry folks, I'm not claiming it's a Jewish conspiracy so put away your pitchforks) to enact a program of global fascism.
Because we have exposed 9/11 as a sham, and they can't wipe their fingerprints off of it, we have a historic chance to nip their scheme in the bud. We won't fail, because we can't afford to--every social movement, whether it knows it or not, is going to coalesce around this issue. There will be hurt, and their will be pain, but we will survive and we will grow stronger and freer as a result--and that is a promise to EVERY honest person in the world, regardless of nationality, race, religion, etc. If you have been helping the conspirators even indirectly, you had better own up to the fact for your own sake and STOP IT.
A new world is dawning and we have brought it into being. The old order will take some time to go through its death spasms, and there will be risks as the rotten corpse heaves its final desperate blow at anything within reach. But then it will be dead forever.
Then the celbration and the dancing and the singing and the loving will begin. Those who cannot admit that they were wrong will not be dealt with severely but neither will they have any power or respect on which to build an apologia for their fallen beast.
The truth has won a historic victory that belongs to future generations and that they must guard vigilantly--it is our job simply to proclaim it and let humanity flourish in peace and freedom from tyranny. It begins today.
RT
Cambridge, Mass. 10/11/2006 10:24 AM
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Yea, it's really cynical
the zionist radicals abuse the jewish populace by associating with them, and thus painting themselves as victims of anti-semitism whenever they're being criticized. By implementing radical policies, they're nurturing critique, which they can then paint as even more anti-semitism, in order to strengthen jewish solidarity with their zionist "protectors". It's a vicious cycle...
Theodor Herzl himself said:
"The antisemites will become our most loyal friends, the antisemites nations will become our allies."
Just like Islamofascists are the Neocons' best friends
Without them, what would the Neocons be? If the devil didn't exist, we would have had to invent him. Well, maybe we did invent him.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Kevin...
Sure knows how to get attention...
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&ncl=http://news.xinhua...
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."
talk about free speech - the
talk about free speech - the web is loaded with Bush = Hitler references, yet when someone finally says it "in persona", then it's news, it's a scandal.
One aspect that is often forgotten about the Bush = Hitler analogy is the all-new "racism" against Muslims/Arabs. GWBush himself is denying it, but so did Hitler about the Jews....
Here is the definition of Anti-Semitism
Anti-Semitism: Here is the definition of Anti-Semitism from the lips of a Jew: “Anti-Semitism does NOT signify opposition to Semitism. THERE IS NO SUCH THING. It is an expression we use effectively as a SMEARWORD, used to brand anyone who brings criticism against us.” Harold W. Rosenthal (Jewish), administrative assistant for then-U.S. Senator Jacob K. Javits (Jewish) of New York, in an interview with American Christian magazine editor, Walter White.
“A man is considered an anti-Semite if he calls a Jew a Jew.” Hillaire Belloc, quoted in Culture Wars (Sept 2000).
“My unpardonable crime,” said Boris Lunachev, a former leader of the Communist Youth in Russia, “was to call a Jew a Jew.”
Eighty to ninety percent of all the “Jews” in the world have NO Semitic ancestry, they are Khazars - - of “Gentile” origin, barbarian Mongol Turks, from the area of Khazaria (now the Caucasus portion of Western Russia), people who, in about 740 A.D., accepted the religion and/or culture of Judaism. Very few, if any, “Jews” in the world today, have any Semitic blood (Semite, from the word Shemite. Shem was one of the sons of Noah). See The Thirteenth Tribe, by Jewish author, Arthur Koestler.
This term, anti-Semitism, is often incorrectly used by “Jews” to smear and discredit non-Jews who are looking for truth in history.
If one tells the truth about the Jews, such as “The Jews own Hollywood” (something they admit to each other), or “The Jews own the media” (something they brag about among themselves), one is considered an “anti-Semite.”
This is a clever subterfuge to eliminate any criticism of any Jew for any thing. If any Jews happen to be involved in any under-handed or even illegal activities, and someone exposes that activity, that person is branded an “anti-Semite.”
It is a convenient way for them to avoid dealing directly with the truth of the issues. So instead, they viciously attack the messenger.
The most anti-Semitic group of people on earth are the Jews, themselves. Arabs are of Semitic origin and the majority of Jews appear to hate the Arabs, at least in Israel. The Israeli government’s plan is to annihilate all Arabs in the same way they are “genociding” the Palestinians.
In addition, the BIG Jews, the leaders of International Jewry, are extremely anti-Semitic because they hate the rank and file Jews who are not in their own “club.”
Iraqi Jews who have immigrated to Israel have been the object of bigotry and prejudice by the eastern European Jews in Israel. Encouraged to relocate in Israel because of their experience as farmers, work that the eastern European Jews feel is beneath them, the Iraqi Jews are treated as second class citizens because they work with their hands.
The rank and file Jews have no idea how expendable they are considered by their own leaders. They are encouraged to live in dangerous war zones, such as Israel and the territories to “secure the land” for their masters, while their leaders live in safety, comfort and luxury in other countries. The rank and file Jews are being used by their Jewish leaders as throw-away pawns in a big-stakes game for control of the world.
Here Is the Definition of a Nazi:
Anonymous
Preciousness, 2.0 LOL
Keep throwing that empty Nazi smear around Shalom The Zionist, maybe you can further debase its effectiveness from its present life-support status, to measurably dead, once and for all!! LMAO!!
Email Pwnage Sent..
Email Pwnage Sent...
The First Amendment, and the principle of academic and intellectual freedom, Mr. Suder, are FAR more important than your desire to silence those whose ideas you find offensive. Your legislative power has clearly gone to your head.
I would suggest, in the spirit of upholding your Oath of Office, that you use Constitutional and civilized remedies to root out incorrect ideas, one of which would be for you to DEBATE MR. BARRETT IN A PUBLIC FORUM, or simply refute his ideas in a logical, systematic manner through an Op-Ed or other release. This is how those of us who love the Constitution deal with false ideas.
Furthermore, I would point your attention to a recent Ohio University Poll, which demonstrates that 36% of Americans believe that it is at least somewhat likely that elements of our government were invovled in the 9/11 attacks. As reprehensible as you might think these ideas are, they are held by a significant portion of the public, and an even more significant portion of the worldwide public. Therefore an open discussion of the 9/11 "inside job" hypothesis, as presented by Barrett in his course as well as the manner and context in which he presents it (which his University deemed appropriate already) are not only proper but essential maintenance of our free Republic.
Spencer Morgan
Salt Lake City, UT
GOP Trivializes Anti-Semitism
http://gaelicstarover.blogspot.com/2006/10/gop-trivializes-anti-semitism...
kevin barrett
nut jobs like kevin barrett make me thankful i got my MBA from Wake Forest University!
Yes
Sounds like you don't read, or , are just stupid.
When the Judaics stop telling lies...
When the Judaic supremacists stop telling lies about us, we'll stop telling the truth about them. One of the best writers in the world on the topic of Jewish deceit is Israel Shamir, who has a website, check it out.
The work of Germar Rudolph, Lectures on the Holocaust and Dissecting the Holocaust debunk the Holocaust myth, completely. Telling the truth does not make one a Nazi. Of course, Jews died during WWII (up to half a million), but that was because there was a war going on. No plan to exterminate European Jewry (as Raul Hilberg, the foremost historian who sides with the exterminatinist camp (no pun) concedes); no 6 milliion and no homocidal gas chambers. Period. The Holohoax fable is a major lynchpin in modern Zionist power, from Izrayhell's monstrous apartheid terror state to the Likudnik Neocons now running the Shite House, to the dismantling of the Constitution to accord with Talmudic Law. Again, read the books of Israel Shamir, all questions answered there.