This is the best news I have heard from the 911 truth in a long time. Everyone in the Truth Movement should organize behind this commission report and start getting there council members behind this.
Get involved now this could be the last chance we could have for another investigation.

Remember we cant have the people who did the crime investigate the crime. Names like Myth maker Philip Zelikow or Neo con Master Henry Kissinger shouldn't have any ties in this new commission.

Any "investigation" by a commission is an opportunity for a whitewash. Any commission can be corrupted or intimidated. What cannot be corrupted is the Truth Itself and the Truth Itself is not dependent on any commission.

Suppose you were a member of a commission and someone near and dear to you got an anthrax letter with a note attached that there were several more similar letters waiting to be mailed to others near and dear to you.

Any "official" commission is an opportunity for a whitewash. Each and every person who can think and reason is a commission. What the world needs is people who can think, and reason, and who are educated as to the meanings of the terms "psyops" and "false flag," and "black op."

We do not need to "vote" for a "commission." Each and every one of us is a commission.

I don't mean to be obstructionist . Everyone should follow their conscience.

Even after a "new commission" those who believe other than what the commission finds, will scream "whitewash." We have to be prepared for that and realize that Truth is independent of commissions.

The only real issue here is how well can a commission successfully achieve the release of evidence, documents and testimony. It is a simple fact that 80% of the information that is needed is available in public sources. Of course, there are also other things that need to be released (Pentagon videos, etc.) The 9/11 commission was an intentional cover-up. The sheer amount of evidence uncovered by independent investigators could be a starting point for investigation. We know that many officials have lied, and to get them to testify for more than a couple of minutes would destroy the 9/11 cover-up easily. A new commission would be vastly superior to the 9/11 commission if it examined 1/10th of the material analyzed by independent investigators. In fact, it would make sense to have some of these people directly involved with executive power to shape the role of the Commission. Someone like David Ray Griffin, who knows the previous report extensively would be an excellent choice. One purpose of this commission SHOULD be to expose where the previous one has omitted and distorted from its conclusions.

Thank you, Dr. Pepper.
_______________
Arabesque: 911 Truth

THE FOLLOWING IS HEREBY DESIRED AND APPROVED AS AN INITIATIVE FOR ADOPTION OF A LOCAL LAW TO AMEND THE NEW YORK CITY CHARTER, TO BE PRESENTED TO VOTERS OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK AT A GENERAL ELECTION OF VOTERS:

1. The title of this local law is “Act to Create a Temporary Independent Commission to Investigate 9/11”.
2. An independent, temporary NYC commission (the “Commission”) is hereby created to conduct a comprehensive, fact-driven investigation into the events that took place on 9/11, as well as to thoroughly examine related events before and after the attacks, including any activities attempting to hide, cover up, impede or obstruct any investigation into these 9/11 events, following wherever the facts may lead. The Commission shall publish one or more reports of their findings.
3. The Commission shall consist of up to 15 Commissioners including Dr. William Pepper (international attorney), Ralph Schoenman (historian), Dr. Edgar Mitchell (Apollo 14 astronaut), Lincoln Chafee (former Senator), Splitting-the-Sky (Mohawk tribal member), Lorie Van Auken (9/11 widow), Ed Asner (actor/activist), Bishop Thomas Gumbleton (Roman Catholic) and others to be appointed by majority vote of the Commission members to bring the Commission up to as many as 15 members and to fill any vacancies thereafter from nominees proposed by any member of the Commission. The Commission shall have a duty to maintain the number of Commissioners at no less than nine and to fill vacancies promptly.
4. The Commission shall act by majority vote, adopt its own Rules of Procedure and shall choose its Chairman, Vice Chairman, Treasurer and Secretary.
5.The Commission shall have the power to issue subpoenas for documents and testimony, take and record testimony, and to apply to the appropriate federal, state, out-of-state or foreign courts for the issuance of subpoenas, Letters Rogatory, or Applications for Mutual Assistance, for service upon persons, corporations, agencies or other entities beyond the subpoena power granted to the Commission.
6. The Commission shall have no authority to act beyond 3 years from the date of their creation by the voters of NYC, except by extension of term and financing through NYC legislation enacted by the City Council or Mayor, or by vote of the electorate at a general election, pursuant to appropriate statute such as Section 37 of the Municipal Home Rule Law or Section 40 of the New York City Charter or other law.
7. The Commission shall have a budget of $10,000,000 per year, for the conduct of its investigation and related activities. Financing shall be entirely drawn from private contributions. No public funds shall be requested or accepted. Pledges and/or promissory notes of specific contributions from wealthy private individuals are being obtained with payment subject to enactment of the Initiative by the voters of New York City. A substantial five figure seed money fund has been established as of January 2008, and a world wide internet fund raising campaign has been launched. In addition, four prominent citizens have pledged substantial matching fund contributions. Celebrity parties, concerts and other fund raising gatherings and activities are also being planned to take place throughout the months of the Petition drive. Cumulatively, these sources will provide for the funding of the investigation.
8. Commission disbursements shall require the signatures of at least two Commissioners serving under the Treasurer on the Commission’s Finance Committee which shall consist of a total of three Commissioners appointed by the Commission. The Commission’s finances and accounts shall be audited each year by an independent public accounting firm appointed by the Commission.
9. The Commission will also endeavor to consider the effects of the 9/11 attacks on the health and well being of police, firefighters, the enormous numbers of other first responders, local residents and others affected, and examine ways and means of alleviating the health care crisis which afflicts many of the above through the enforcement of their the right to health care services and compensation.
10. As a law-enforcement agency, the Commission shall have the right not to publicly disclose activities of a secret or confidential nature and shall have the duty of recording the taking of testimony by film or video, and the duty of providing an opportunity for CSpan and other television networks, stations and programs to broadcast Commission proceedings on a live or other basis.
11. Each Commissioner shall be paid a base annual salary of $112,500 (or such other base salary as is then being paid to members of the New York City Council) and the same benefits received by such members, plus reimbursement of out-of-pocket expenses actually incurred on behalf of the Commission, economy air and train fares to and from a Commissioner’s residence outside of New York City.
12. Commissioners may come from any part of the world and shall not be required to maintain a residence in New York City or New York State.
13. The Commissioners are not required to devote 100% or substantially all of their time to the work of the Commission and it is expected that Commissioners will be able to continue with non-conflicting activities.
14. The Commission by a majority vote shall have the right, to seek indictments in any relevant Court located in the City of New York, or elsewhere and, at its discretion, to work with existing prosecutorial agencies or to seek the appointment of a special prosecutor under Section 701 of the New York County Law.
15. Accordingly, the Commission shall have the power to seek the appointment of a special prosecutor anywhere within New York State or in any other State, country or jurisdiction.
16. The Commission as a temporary investigative office of New York City shall, during its lifetime, enjoy the same immunities, privileges and prosecutorial discretion granted under law to elected prosecutors.
17.No New York City employee, past or present, shall have the right to avoid testifying before the Commission based on any prior agreements not to disclose or testify with any officials or agencies of New York City or other governmental agency; the Commission has the power to maintain secrecy and confidentiality of testimony or other disclosures where appropriate.
18. The Commission shall have the power to hire and fire clerical and other employees, attorneys, accountants, paralegals, experts, consultants and others in performance of their respective duties.
19. The Commission shall have the power to enter into contracts; and to create and enforce its rules.
20. This law shall be construed liberally to enable the Commission to conduct an independent investigation into 9/11, and issue one or more reports on the Commission’s investigation, and create one or more websites to provide public information about the work of the Commission.
21 If any provision of this law is held to be unconstitutional or invalid for any reason, the remaining provisions shall be in no manner affected thereby but shall remain in full force and effect.
source: http://www.nyc911initiative.org/PetitionFinal-01M.pdf

Dr. Pepper talks about this Ballot initiative near the end of this Hartford, November 3rd, 2007 presentation:

Watch from 44 minute mark and forward.
_______________
Arabesque: 911 Truth

Pepper lays out aspects of the commission members in this video. This is a wonderful plan. It is unlike any other commission.

See the bottom Pepper video at http://www.911blogger.com/node/13460

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If one does not thoroughly LOOK, the TRUTH is not visible.

before the next election, while Bush is still in office. I am afraid that after the next election 9/11/2001 will go the way of 11/22/1963.......... Ancient history........... Sad but true. I am a realist.

Because this group is connected to the nyc911 group which has been divisive and supporting of people like hoax advocates Alfred Webre, Jim Fetzer and Craig Ranke in their public events, my first thought is that the group of people put together will be compromised in some way that is essentially covered-up for us activists on the ground.

So I go look at the list. First on the list is someone I don't know named Edgar Mitchell, but described as a NASA affiliated scientist and someone who walked on the moon. Well, having not heard anything about him I search on his name and the first thing I find -- thanks the Fred Burkes' UFO supporting site that mixes UFOs, mind control and 9/11onto one site (he's also a 911truth.org board member) -- are his views on UFOs.

Here we go!

So I take a look. Oops . . . the first sentence is all one needs to read, unfortunately:

"Yes, there have been ET visitations. "
Apollo 14 Astronaut, Edgar Mitchell, Ph.D. (Sixth Man to Walk on Moon)
From Disclosure, pp. 61-64.
See also The Way of the Explorer, Edgar Mitchell and Dwight Williams, p. 212.
http://www.wanttoknow.info/050324ufotestimony

But okay, we read the next few sentences:

"There have been crashed craft. There have been material and bodies recovered . . . "

That's all folks!

We've just alienated our entire US audience. Show's over. Forget about any investigation this commission does when this fact is brought up on the first google search.

But notice, nothing about his UFO beliefs is mentioned on his description for us activists and viewing public, just like patriotsquestion --

"Yet, surprisingly, PatriotsQuestion911.com displays these people to the public as though they are serious professionals. Morgan Reynolds, for example, is presented with a glowing vitae of career accomplishments suggesting rock solid credibility, even though one click on a link provided brings a reader to questions about what "objects" hit the WTC Towers, and essays ridiculing Prof. Steven Jones, even calling him "retarded.""
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/patriots_question/index.html

Shall I move on to the other commissioners?

I'll direct him here to see what you posted.

Visit this thread for the latest suggested improvements:

http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2918
______________________________________
http://coljennysparks.blogspot.com/
http://truthaction.org/forum/
http://www.911blacklist.org/

Excellent post! It's in the details, the idea of an independent investigation is great, but how and who executes the effort can determine the outcome whether in favor of truth or the wretched OCT.

I think ae911truth.org experienced a similar problem and overcame it by verifying the qualification of members who signed up.

--------------------------------------------
WTC 9-11-2001 was a Neocon-Zionist conspiracy, but
Jews DID NOT do 9-11 -
http://www.911blogger.com/node/8914#comment-174921
The WTC was destroyed by controlled demo-
http://www.ae911truth.org

"Shall I move on to the other commissioners?"

From p. 2 of the petition,

The Commission shall consist of up to 15 Commissioners including Dr. William Pepper (international attorney), Ralph Schoenman(historian), Dr. Edgar Mitchell (Apollo 14 astronaut), Lincoln Chafee (former Senator), Splitting-the-Sky (mohawk tribal member), Lorie Van Auken (9/11 widow), Ed Asner (actor/activist), Bishop Thomas Gumbleton (Roman Catholic) and others to be appointed by majority vote of the Commission members to bring the Commission up to as many as 15 members and to fill any vacancies thereafter from nominees proposed by an member of the Commission.

I have to admit that I've never heard of either Gumbleton or Splitting-the-Sky. But if you have objections, kindly speak now, or forever hold your peace. (Or anybody else who has objections.)

As to Mitchell's UFO reports, while that will doubtless cast doubt on him in some American's minds, it certainly wouldn't others. E.g., Americans who read "UFO's and the National Security State", and know that UFO's is yet another topic that the government lies about as a matter of policy.

Having said this, though, I agree it'd be better not to complicate things with unnecessary and unrelated controversy. There is enough controversy just with 911 matters. Also, I saw first hand somebody that I met at a party ,recently, who dismissed Kucinich as a serious Presidential candidate precisely because of his UFO statement (never mind that President Carter also reported a UFO sighting). While many, if not most, Americans wouldn't disparage either Kucinich or Mitchel for a UFO report, many others doubtless would.

At the end of the day, a serious commission with subpoena power would be a good thing. Even if there are one or two disrupters among them. Agree or disagree?

The perpetrators of 911 - whoever they are - are mass murderers of the innocent. No one disagrees with this. Anyone found guilty of mass murder by the "commission" may face an indictment and a trial, and if found guilty will face execution. The guilty parties will be fighting for their lives.

Also bear in mind that the guilty parties - whoever they are - who have murdered thousands - will have no qualms about murdering thousands more if they have the means at their disposal - and this will include commission members and their families if necessary. Does anyone doubt that mass murderers of the innocent are psychopaths?

Also, does anyone doubt that whoever is responsible for 9/11 has tremendous murderous resources at their command?

Has anyone actually thought this out? The mice had a meeting and a proposal was made to hang a bell around the cat's neck so they would be warned at the cat's approach. All the mice applauded.
Then an older mouse asked: "Which one of you is going to bell the cat?" (That's an Aesop's fable)

The Truth has a power of its own. The Truth will come to light. All karmic debts will be paid.
I have no faith in "commissions." But I would be delighted to be proven wrong.

I have a great deal of faith in one-on-one communication with one's friends and family. This is a lot harder than "voting" for a "commission" and expecting "them" to bring about justice. We must each PERSONALLY do the educating. We must believe in our PERSONAL individual power.

I think you are correct to assume they have a strong capacity for murder. What will hold them back is their secrecy and ability to fool people that they, the inside job perpetrators do not even exist. A carelessly done murder will reveal to all that they do exist thus accomplishing part of what the commission set out to do. I do think that it will be very dangerous for the members, but perhaps people can be found who are brave enough to know the risk yet still willing to go though it knowing what is at stake in the end.

on another note, I think the bigger danger is that the commission will be steered towards a conclusion that is only half true and perhaps leading to the prosecution of only part of the conspirators. As has been raised in the other comments, the sponsoring truth group has not been the most stellar in the movement. The case of the Japanese senator raising 9-11 within their cabinet is a bit disconcerting knowing that he is receiving help from Benjamin Fulford. If you have seen Fulford's website you will understand that not all help is welcome when your reputation and truthfulness is an issue.

--------------------------------------------
WTC 9-11-2001 was a Neocon-Zionist conspiracy, but
Jews DID NOT do 9-11 -
http://www.911blogger.com/node/8914#comment-174921
The WTC was destroyed by controlled demo-
http://www.ae911truth.org

I think this NYC Commission is a great idea and I appreciate Dr. Pepper for his contribution to it. Meanwhile, we still need to push THIS year. It is a crucial year with the still looming danger of another 9-11 or worse, War on Iran into WW4 as things wildly spin out of control, PD's, Camps, MCA and thought crime bills on the domestic front ready to roll, and more hopefully, a presidential race to push the truth into whether the candidates or the MSM like it or not (Conventions right before 9-11 this year). Speaking to our friends, family, acquaintances and strangers are good and crucial too.

And yes, while it is true, as MLK assured us that "the arc of the moral [and truth] universe is long but it bends towards justice," we also need to act as if "in this unfolding conundrum of life and history there is such a thing as being too late," as he also warned us, a year to the day before being killed in a state-sponsored false-flag terror attack. This is especially true with the timing and subject matter at hand.

And its important to remember that we're attempting to expose, not an entire agency or bureaucracy, but criminals and criminality that intersect with it. They are a small group and they are very secretive. We are a much larger group and we have nothing to hide about the facts or our intentions. And we don't have vicious or violent intentions. Once people, inside and outside the government and military see that for sure, the support for murder, lies and treason will fall away.

I've loved the idea of an encampment in DC for a while now. It is powerful to hear that MLK was intending that, and that that is what probably put a real fear up in em. We are in a much better situation because we have too many heads to cut off all at once and it would only prove our point to the American people. I think that, though we are probably not ready to mobilize millions or even thousands to camp in DC, we could get a serious little group together with back-up from around the world to push on the District of Criminal Cover-up. Starting with the 4th, July could be a very hot month for congress.

This concept could be called "micro-revolution." It would be less threatening to the entire bureaucratic structure and could, like political acu-pressure, apply peaceful force (yeah I said it HR 1955ers, it's a basic force of the universe, you can't make people power illegal, it was endowed to us by our Creator who, by the way, is stronger than you in case you forgot) to the proper places and report stories that could circulate around the world and maybe even interest an American newspaper, fancy that?! Though I'm not counting on it.

Check some ideas out here. http://911blogger.com/node/13481#comment-175125

More to come next week after the Santa Cruz Truth Emergency Media Summit

“Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehoods school. And the one man that dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool.” –Plato

"We must speak the truth about terror." --George W. Bush

>>At the end of the day, a serious commission with subpoena power would be a good thing. Even if there are one or two disrupters among them. Agree or disagree?

Disagree. This isn't that hard to figure out.

Yes, a UFO person published in Disclosure, or a disruptor, is a serious concern.

It's frankly bizarre to me that I have to do this.

The biggest weight against the "9/11 movement" is that we are nuts.

As long as we are nuts, people who care about what anyone thinks of them will stay away.

A lot of Americans care about what others think of them.

This is our biggest problem -- "nuts".

UFOs, to Americans, are nuts.

I don't do this to offend anyone. I assume that all have the best of intentions. But if you create a major event like this, promote it, call for people to support it, collect signatures, gather members . . . you will ultimately be held responsible for decisions like putting a person published in Disclosure as the top commissioner on the website page. Soon enough, someone will notice. Now that I have, it's out.

>>speak now, or forever hold your peace.

I pretty much decide when I speak and when I don't.

I've organized events and it isn't rocket science to get people who aren't publicly advocating UFOs.

It also isn't rocket science to assume that a group that has done this kind of thing (getting UFO people to talk at 9/11 events, no plane at the WTC - Reynolds - front and center on the website during Griffin's lecture in NYC, hoax stuff at the tables, etc) will likely keep on doing it. How hard is that to understand? Putting a major investigation into their hands? Why?

My guess is that the best advice is to find new organizers.

No offense intended, but this is a real problem and a lot of people will share my opinion. Let's not stifle dissent but discuss it.

Let's think of this in terms of issuing a subpoena. Unless you need 100% approval to issue a subpoena, how could 1 or 2 dissenters/disrupters stop it? And unless 1 or 2 dissenters/disrupters can issue a subpoena on their own volition, irregardless of the will of the majority, why should the majority care? (I'm assuming that a simple majority rules - please correct me if I'm wrong.)

If the disrupters are SO disruptive - say by singing songs, telling jokes, pulling pigtails, being argumentative, etc. - that serious work can't be done during meetings, yes, that would be a problem. Do you really think that EDGAR MITCHELL would act this way?

I sure don't, but OK, I agree that it would be better if there was a provision for the commission to remove anybody who acted this way. Having said that, if you think that EDGAR MITCHELL would act this way, it would be nice to give us one instance, ever, of him acting crazily disruptive.

I don't agree that the "biggest weight" against the truth movement is that we are "nuts". That is certainly the impression one gets if one talks to dyed-in-the-wool "debunkers", but those types are almost habitually smear-merchants. How many "debunkers" have you ever seen apologize for any smear, insult, lie, or distortion they've told? It's very rare.

More serious is the marginalization by the main stream media, as this is where most of the American public gets their "information" from. (In particular, NOT from "debunking" web sites.) Again, the media does the bidding of their masters. You and I are not their masters, and thus they couldn't care less about being fair, public-minded, or what you and I think. Nothing will change there.

And I'm SURE that Dr. Pepper would agree with this sentiment, as you will learn if you listen to his speeches regarding his experiences with what was proven or presented in court regarding the conspiracy to kill MLK, and how the media punted. So, e.g., if subpoenas leading to sworn testimony prove that Cheney gave a stand-down order, this will NOT get any more mention in the New York Times than the MLK trial revelations, or perhaps even the recent Sibel Edmonds revelations (which got none!). (The problem of disrupters and shills is also well known to Pepper, BTW.)

So, if you will, what other objections do you (or anybody else) have, if any, to any of the commissioners?

By "speak now, or forever hold your peace", I wasn't trying to give you orders, but rather, was merely 'poetically' inviting you to give us any and all objections you may have, now. "Speak now, or forever hold your peace" is what ministers say during weddings, correct? They're not ordering anybody to say anything, they're inviting them. Once the commission is formed, objections at that point are going to be much more problematic. Similarly, once a marriage begins, dissolving it is more problematic than nipping it off at the bud would have been.

Far from "stifling dissent", I am encouraging serious dissent, precisely on the subject of the commissioners and their suitability, and furthermore, in the 'here and now', when it will be most beneficial.

It only works if you're talking about unknown quantities--ie--the possibility of having a disruptor, and even then it assumes they bring something valuable to the table.

It certainly doesn't assume the presence of individuals who might call the entire exercise into question later, casting doubt on the results--" Oh yes, I heard so-and-so was on that, so I'm not sure."

It isn't as if this hasn't happened before...

Why hike up hill when you can make it a level stroll? You're going to have enough challenges as it is.
______________________________________
http://coljennysparks.blogspot.com/
http://truthaction.org/
http://www.911blacklist.org/

Project Disclosure is very fishy.

I don't really trust Dr. Steven Greer who seems to be exposing the "UFO conspiracy" with tactit / subtle government approval.

There is a hidden agenda here.

There are a lot of big names on the project and we should be careful about bringing them into the forefront of the 911 Truth Movement.

Don't we have enough people with credentials of their own outside the UFO spectrum to lend credence to an independent investigation.

Let's not mix "conspiracies".

Instead of alien craft can we say experimental aircraft. The SR-71 was classified for decades.

If aliens were really visiting Earth, they would not be wasting their time hiding behind a charade with the US Secret Government's co-operation.

Let's get real.

Sticking to 911 Truth and 911 Truth Alone will get us to our Primary Objectives. If indeed this commision is infiltrated by "Ufologists" , we are not only going to discredited but a hidden agenda for more fear mongering about aliens / alien invasion is going to raise military budgets.

Call me crazy, but once the War on Terror is exposed as a fraud to the masses - who else are they going to fear? The tooth fairy?

Or maybe the little green man with the ray gun. Courtesy of more military industrial complex black ops.

There seems to be a whole department somewhere hidden in the bowels of the secret government that rules AmeriKa creating different avenues of fear.

Last thing we need is to move from the fearing Al-Qaeda / Al-Ciada to non-existant Aliens!

The Pentagon will probably get a blank cheque (for all their operaitons) if little green men (with their proverbial ray guns) start "Terrorizing" the US and the World.

Soon we will be facing Andromeda Bin Ladin. I can almost hear the Fox pundits screaming........

Its a Bird! Its a Plane.... No its......

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

"If aliens were really visiting Earth, they would not be wasting their time hiding behind a charade with the US Secret Government's co-operation."

Well to be truthful, we don't know that for certain. Sure, if they were benevolent creatures your statement would probably hold up to fact. But if there are indeed "ETs" out there who crave power, sure enough they would be in cahoots with the Earth's most powerful. I personally think that the entire topic of aliens, UFOs, etc. should be entirely left out of the 9/11 debate, and that those who openly (publicly) espouse such views shouldn't be representing us to the brainwashed masses, however that doesn't mean that true 9/11 researchers can't ALSO believe in extraterrestrial life, as even I do. Of course my belief in that phenomenon should in no way be disclosed during discussions of 9/11. One has nothing to do with the other.

"Sure, if they were benevolent creatures your statement would probably hold up to fact. But if there are indeed "ETs" out there who crave power, sure enough they would be in cahoots with the Earth's most powerful"

Why would any potential alien civilization with the technology capoability to travel the stars bother being in cahorts with the "Earth's most powerful"? If they crave power, they would take it all from us like grabbing lolly pops from a baby.

If they were hostile, why would they waste their time dealing with the White House or the Pentagon or even the Russians?

We would be like ants to them. Any interstellar / intergalactic spacefaring species out there (if any) would have absoloutely no need of our approval or co-operation whatsoever.

I don't think they would care what any military or government on Earth would think of their existance or presence if they were hostile.

Does intelligent life exist out there in the universe?

I am still wondering if intelligent life exist in the halls of Congress and the White House for that matter!

All i know is this picture speaks volumes. We have to see the hoaxes for what they really are.

Oh, by the way these are just the "unclassified" flying saucers. Somebody is playing games with us.

I just hope we don't get to see Andromeda Bin Ladin. Bush still cannot find his earthly twin cousin.

Boy, that will raise their budget allocations then and Hollywood will make a killing.

Let's focus on finding the intelligent life here on Earth that can Restore Justice, Truth, Freedom and Peace .

Then we can focus on the stars. We can't even keep our planet in order with the smirking chimps in power laughing at our faces as they lie and obsfucate

We have far bigger problems terrestrially already instead of taking it extra-terrestrial.

911 is a Terrestrial issue. Not an extra-terrestrial matter. So people like Alfred Webre, Steven Greer should be watched very very carefully.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it

"At the end of the day, a serious commission with subpoena power would be a good thing. Even if there are one or two disrupters among them. Agree or disagree?"

If you know they are disruptors, it's irresponsible to entertain their presence if it is within ones power to not have them.
Thought that would be obvious.
______________________________________
http://coljennysparks.blogspot.com/
http://truthaction.org/
http://www.911blacklist.org/

I have argued that Edgar Mitchell is not a disruptor. If you have information to the contrary, please share it. Also, if you have information to the contrary regarding any other of the commissioners, please share that, also.

I have trouble even imagining that Edgar Mitchell would disrupt a serious inquiry, but maybe other people know things that I don't.

I think Mitchell is a person of questionable credibility rather than a disruptor. What's so hard to see about that after all the UFO stuff linked to him.

--------------------------------------------
WTC 9-11-2001 was a Neocon-Zionist conspiracy,
but Jews DID NOT do 9-11 -
http://www.911blogger.com/node/8914#comment-174921
The WTC was destroyed by controlled demo-
http://www.ae911truth.org

I agree that any connection with UFOs will be considered a demerit against credibility by SOME people, and therefore I have no objection to politely asking that Mitchell withdraw or be withdrawn. I just hope that Mitchell is not offended.

And for the record, I don't dismiss UFO claims out of hand, any more than I assume that Jimmy Carter or Dennis Kucinich are crazy, or unfit to be President of the United States, by virtue of their UFO claims. Certainly, if there's nothing at all to UFO claims, it's awfully strange that the government lies about them so pathologically.

Are there any more complaints, by anybody, regarding either the credibility or potential for disruption of any of the other proposed commission members?

Furthermore, can anybody else recommend suitable replacements?

>>I agree that any connection with UFOs will be considered a demerit against credibility by SOME people

That's what makes it hard to see why this is an issue -- for you it is not an issue. But for the majority of others -- the average American -- it is. Look at the numbers of votes Kucinich is getting and we can guess that w/o the UFO comments, things might have gone a little better. It's an easy way to sideline someone these days, so why set us up for it from the start?

I can't see suggesting a suitable replacement because I have no idea how the commissioners were chosen, by whom, etc. The FAQ on the site doesn't talk about that.

>>Are there any more complaints, by anybody

I'm sure there are, so I doubt that trying to sort of "wrap up" all complaints here and say there are no more isn't going to really work.

I'll have more to say about this tomorrow or the day after. For right now, I'll just say the following:

1) The idea of a commission with subpoena power is an EXCELLENT idea, and I have a great deal of respect for Dr. William Pepper, Ralph Schoenman, Lorie Van Auken, Ed Asner, and yes, Dr. Edgar Mitchell, also. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about Lincoln Chafee, even if he is a former Senator, and I've never even heard of Splitting-the-Sky or Bishop Thomas Gumbleton, before.
2) I had nothing to do with with either the genesis of the ballot initiative idea, nor have I been active in the NYC 911 group, nor am I a member (if they even have membership), nor have I had any contact with anybody in that organization, except for meeting some people on the day of a) a regular meeting when they were showing a movie on Edwards Bernays and the use of 'public relations' in manipulating the masses and 2) a fund raiser for the ballot initiative, which was also attended by Ray McGovern and Patty Cassazza (besides Van Auken and Pepper, plus other non-commission notables).

To construe that objecting to a person with a history of UFO beliefs being on a highly public commission aiming for credibility has anything to do with not respecting that person, being against UFO beliefs or anything else, is simply misguided (not that metamars is doing that, only that some may). It has only to do with the credibility of that body. None of us need explain or discuss our own personal beliefs or the merits of UFO beliefs, etc. We are only discussing the relevance to the average public watching MSM, influenced by MSM, the millions that we are trying to reach.

I appreciate the efforts that people have taken on this to get involved and get under the surface, take a look, ask questions, etc. Positive stuff!

I don't think any of us mean to insult others or their beliefs. But that premise -- that we must accept all -- is often used to defend baseless claims or the mixing of 9/11 work and other work, like mind control, UFOs, Anti-zionism, etc. Finding the balance is important.

The proposed (initial) commissioners, with bios, are listed here:

http://www.nyc911initiative.org/commissioners.htm

In particular, Dr. Edgar Mitchell's bio is:

Navy Captain Dr. Edgar Mitchell is a scientist, test pilot, astronaut, entrepreneur, author and lecturer. His academic background includes a Bachelor of Science in Industrial Management from Carnegie Mellon University, a Bachelor of Science from the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School and a Doctor of Science in Aeronautics and Astronautics from MIT. He was the sixth man to walk on the moon as part of the Apollo 14 mission which was NASA's third manned lunar landing. In addition he has received honorary doctorates in engineering from New Mexico State University, the University of Akron, Carnegie Mellon University and a ScD from Embry-Riddle University. Dr. Mitchell has received many awards and honors including the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the USN Distinguished Medal and three NASA Group Achievement Awards. He was inducted to the Space Hall of Fame in 1979 and the Astronaut Hall of Fame in 1998.

Endorsements are listed at

http://www.nyc911initiative.org/endorsements.htm

and include organizations such as NY State Green Party, World Can't Wait, and Code Pink NYC, and individuals such as David Ray Griffin and Kevin Ryan.

The fundraiser for the Ballot Initiative that I attended had the following speakers:

William Pepper, Ray McGovern, Lorie Van Auken, Patty Cassazza, Kathy Davis, Christine Ebersole, Richard Greene, Kyle Hence, Frank Morales, and Les Jamieson. Their pictures are currently on the home page of www.ny911truth.org.

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In short, it looks to me like a lot of credible people have gone to a lot of trouble to try and make this happen, and I support their efforts - either with or without Dr. Edgar Mitchell as a member of the commission. Furthermore, I WOULD AGAIN ASK 911blogger.com TO SUPPORT THEM, by pinning articles relating to this effort on top of their home page. I will, today, also ask ae911truth to support them. I have already asked stj911 to support them.

For people who feel otherwise, you are, of course, free to ask 911blogger.com to do the opposite, and you can also try and contact some of the people involved and try and get them to reconsider their involvement. Since I am not a player (as mentioned in my previous post), my opinion doesn't matter, anyway, so trying to change my mind would be besides the point.

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Finally, at the party I mentioned, nobody chimed in to agree that Kucinich should be dismissed because of a UFO experience. He was not doing wells at the polls well before he was asked about this by Russert on national TV (unfortunately, IMO.) Furthermore, a UFO report was insufficient to prevent Jimmy Carter from actually getting elected President.

In short, I think you're way overreacting to Edgar Mitchell's UFO claims, as I think this would have only a minor impact in public's mind, at worst. For "debunkers" and people who are virulently anti-UFO (whatever that may mean), this would be major. However, I doubt such people are more than 15% of the population.

I do think, though, this disagreement points to a fundamental difference of opinion as to what can be achieved with a commission, and why it's desirable. For a person who primarily wants an authority to point to, and to say "We can trust this credible group to tell us the truth regarding 911, in contradistinction to various government stories", concern over Mitchell's UFO record may well be of paramount importance.

However, for somebody like me, who considers the government systemically corrupt (at it's highest levels), the value of a commission is only partly to have a means of procuring reliable information, which has legal teeth. I've no doubt that, even if a commission is formed, there will be various attempt to stifle it's mission, doubtless invoking "state secrets" and "national security" as reasons.

No, besides whatever valuable information CAN be determined by a commission, it will also have value because it will expose the cover-up and lies further, even where those lies and cover-up efforts will successfully continue to obscure the truth. As Patty Casazza said in her talk "We wanted them to put their lies down on paper."

Indeed. We also deduced the dishonesty of the 911 Commission from what we know they didn't ask, but were being practically begged to do so, and what they did learn about, but left out of their report. So, we learned about their lies of omission, as well as what I'll call their treasonous incuriosity.

"If one does not thoroughly LOOK, the TRUTH is not visible."

Well said.