Speak to Richard Gage--This Sunday August 7th, 6pm eastern
Richard Gage, founder of Architects and Engineers For 911 Truth, will be joining us in The 911 Truth Movement Paltalk Room at 6pm eastern on Sunday August 7th..
UPDATE: Chris Sarns will be with us also.
This is a live, two hour Question and Answer session--Your opportunity to ask Richard Gage questions and hear him bring everyone up to date on what AE911TRUTH has accomplished recently.
Richard joins us on the first Sunday of each month.
Paltalk is a cool way to interact with other 911 activists through voice and text chat. You can also split off from the main room and engage in private chat sessions, as well as share files and video.
The 911 Truth Movement Room has over 200 important videos in its library.
Links:
PC users--- http://www.paltalk.com/g2/group/1127367608/Download.wmt?pagc=2403779&ref...
Mac Users--- http://express.paltalk.com/?gid=1127367608&refc=120028
- kawika's blog
- Login to post comments
Maybe someone already knows this
I ran into the matter in conversation, and got a curiosity about it.
Regarding the concrete in the towers (and building 7), would ae911truth be willing to, in addition to citing the general rule of thumb (400,000 yards), to calculate for itself an estimate of the amount of concrete above ground? I think it is standard concrete in the core sections, and then lightweight concrete outside of that, but of what I have seen, the density of the lightweight concrete is not known.
I am curious, because of the problem with the 400,000-yard figure (I have seen 425,000) it looks like they tend to say for the whole complex - all 7 buildings? Perhaps this potential source of confusion could be helped.
TIA, Mark
About concrete...
There was no concrete in the cores of the towers. The only concrete used was on top of the floor pans on each floor, and at the base of the towers.
Floors
Of course the floors in the core areas were concrete. Now I'm looking for references. I think anywhere from 5" to 8" thick using standard concrete was the spec.
If you are referring to the bogus "concrete cores" claim from years ago, I would surely agree with that. They were no "concrete cores".
I believe this is incorrect.
NIST NCSTAR 1-1C (Draft), which discusses prior WTC maintenance and monitoring, has mention of concrete or masonry encased members and beams (on the MER floors and in the core), concrete framing (on the MER floors) as well as mention of concrete "partitions and finishes," and concrete anchors for any connections made to concrete. There are also several mentions of reinforced concrete, something we don't hear about much re: WTC construction. Mention of "loose concrete" being found on a 46th floor column face in WTC 7. Also reference to "core concrete or rolled steel members". Concrete fireproofing was apparently used on the MER floors.
Core structure: "In the express elevator shafts, beams framing in the north-south direction were typically encased in concrete." (p.47)
"Steel beams supporting the elevator door saddles were encased in concrete, except for a few beams that were found to be partially encased (for example, in one case, concrete was missing from the bottom flange of one of the steel beams)." (p.48)
Core framing inspection: "Concrete encasement on the steel beams in the core area was found to be in good condition with hairline cracks at scattered locations." (p.52)
MER: "Repair the cracks in the concrete at the base of the columns.....Patch and repair the spalled concrete encasement of all appropriate structural members " (p. 53)
and of course extensive references to concrete masonry in the basement levels.
Thanks
Thank you, JNelson, for that information for those that weren't aware. Of course the mechanical floors were reinforced. Even the flooring on the mechanical floors used steel beams instead of the light-duty steel trusses that were employed on all other floors.
Mark, according to construction videos and documents, each floor had four inches of a light concrete mix (aggregate) on top of the floor pans. A light aggregate was used to keep the weight of the floors down.
Appendix "A" of the FEMA Report and Appendix "E" of the NIST Report make mention of the four inches of concrete aggregate used on the floor trusses in the towers.
The lightweight concrete is also easier to drill
when one is doing sub-floor electrical or plumbing, something I have done more than once in a highrise (electrical, that is).
I'm not exactly sure if this was done in the Twin Towers, but I expect it probably was.
I always have to smile when people say that someone would have noticed if explosives were being loaded into the buildings because during my 25 years of doing electrical work I did many commercial jobs during the dead of night when you could quite literally do anything you wanted to and no one would know a thing, as long as you cleaned up after yourself.
There were numerous reports of office workers finding fine dust in their offices when they arrived in the morning, for weeks (some even months) before 9/11/01. This tells me that whoever was doing the work was not as careful as we were, but you can never get all the dust, it is just too fine.
I believe that after the 1993 WTC bombing, part of the retrofit was to add additional concrete around some of the core columns and elsewhere on the first 10 (?) floors.
One of the most telling facts about the clear demolition of the Twin Towers to me is the almost total shredding of the steel floor pans. There is absolutely no way a "gravitational collapse" would do this to the degree observed. Undoubtedly, this is one of the many reasons why they didn't want photographs taken by anyone other than official photographers and NYC passed an ordinance banning cameras from the site.
Talk about guilty demeanor.
Cheers!
floors
Hi,
Here is one example of floors that I mean...
From:
http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/worldtradecenterconstruction,facts&figur
Frank Greening's Concrete Calculation
The floors in the core areas were made of normal weight concrete, density 1760 kg/m3
The floors in the office areas were made of lightweight concrete, density 1500 kg/m3
Volume of 5-inch normal weight concrete per floor = 109.5 m3
Weight of normal weight concrete per floor = 193 tonnes
Volume of 4-inch thick lightweight concrete per floor = 289.4 m3
Weight of lightweight concrete per floor = 434 tonnes
I was curious as to what ae911truth would be willing to take a shot at. Above is in tons and in yards - concrete, lloking for totals above ground.
And as for fire specs, I'm pretty sure they had concrete fire protection around core columns and some elevator shafts.
http://www.specsandcodes.com/Articles/The%20Code%20Corner%20No.%2019%20-%20Calculating%20Fire%20Resistance.pdf
- Mark
There wasn't 400,000 cu. yards or tons of concrete per tower
If you do the math you will find that the towers did not have 400,000 cubic yards or tons of concrete in them.
The outer office space area had 4 inch thick lightweight concrete that was 110 lbs./cubic foot. The core had 5 inch thick regular weight concrete at 145 lbs./cubic foot.
The core was 137 feet x 87 feet and each floor was about 204 feet square internally. The core area was about 12,000 sq. feet and with a 5 inch concrete thickness would have had about 185 cubic yards of concrete per floor. The outer office space area was about 30,000 sq. feet and with a 4 inch concrete thickness would have had about 370 cubic yards per floor. The total per floor was then about 555 cubic yards. If you multiply that by 117 floors you get about 65,000 cubic yards per tower.
The weight of the concrete in the core would have been about 185 cubic yards/floor x 145 lbs./cubic foot x 27 cubic feet/cubic yard x 117 floors = 84,740,175 lbs. or about 42,370 tons.
The weight of the concrete in the area outside of the core would have been about 370 cubic yards/floor x 110 lbs./cubic foot x 27 cubic feet/cubic yard x 117 floors = 128, 571,300 lbs. or about 64,286 tons.
The total weight of concrete per tower was thus about 107,000 tons. This is probably a little low because the sub-levels would have had more concrete per level, but it is probably within 10%.
The total weight of each twin tower was about 317,500 tons counting dead and live loads. There was about 100,000 tons of steel and aluminum in them. So there was probably between 210,000 and 220,000 tons of steel, aluminum, and concrete. The remaining weight would be from gypsum, glass, HVAC ducting, plumbing, wiring, elevators, furniture, computers, and other live loads.
The 400,000 yards of concrete figure probably refers to the area of each floor times the number of floors, which does give about 400,000 yards of area, but it isn't the cubic yards used in concrete work to describe the volume of concrete and it certainly isn't weight in tons.
Please visit our room
We would like to invite anyone with questions on the Controlled Demolition of the WTC Towers, and that of WTC Building number 7 to speak directly with Richard Gage, Founder of Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth. An open dialogue is crucial in making the 911 Truth subject not taboo, and helps us all at not allowing this topic to fall into complacency, and ultimately into oblivion.
Far too often we in the 911 Truth Movement get the emotional response of ... "Muslims did it", or "How dare you suggest blah blah blah" and finally, "What you're saying is an insult to the victims of 9/11" ....
This deserves debate, and discussion without the appeal to authority, or an emotional tie.
Our goal on Paltalk with the voice chat room we have created is to provide you, the 911 blogger community, and anyone who reads it, a platform with which to use for just these kinds of discussions, and debates. Let me be clear, we are not a fight room, and our room admins will not allow rudeness, racial slur's, or religious preaching. Our goal is to give everyone a place to speak their mind, and show their knowledge to others wanting clarification. We don't speak on things we simply get on the "internet", we speak on what is said on the most trusted 911 Truth websites, and those alone. For example, we don't discuss video fakery as fact, nor do we adhere to any "no plane theory". If 911 Truth speaks about it and the info finds its way onto 911blogger, visibility911, ae911truth.org, speakout.org, 911truth.org, and places like them, then we will use it.
That being said, I formally invite you to please use our room for what we designed it for. The room can hold over 1000 members at one time, and the closer we get to the 10th Anniversary to 9/11 (I hate using that word), the more of an opportunity we all have to open up the 9/11 Truth dialogue with a sense of accuracy. We don't claim to be the experts, but we do listen to the experts, and facts are facts that nobody can afford to ignore any longer.
We also are hoping to stream live the Toronto Hearings in our room for those who wish to discuss what is being said. We need more information on the availability of a live stream, and I believe No Lies Radio is interested in this as well.
We need you to help clarify the vast amounts of information regarding 911 to those who are interested, and as we have Richard Gage, and David Chandler visit us as guest speakers on a monthly basis currently, we certainly don't wish to stop there. Many of us would love to see others willing to be guest speakers such as, but not limited to...
David Ray Griffin
Kevin Ryan
Graham McQueen
Tony Szamboti
Laurie Manwell
etc, etc...
Help us expand 911 Truth into a real time discussion.
Thank You,
~Rage_Against_Machine (admin of the Paltalk 911 Truth Movement voice chat room)