“BuildingWhat?” Appears on Geraldo At Large on FOX News
On November 13, Bob McIlvaine and Tony Szamboti appeared on Geraldo Rivera's show "Geraldo At Large" on Fox News to talk about the "BuildingWhat?" TV ad campaign and World Trade Center Building 7 for a short segment.
Bob McIlvaine lost his son Bobby McIlvaine on September 11, 2001. He is an active member of NYC CAN, a group which cosponsors the "BuildingWhat?" TV ad campaign. Tony Szamboti is a mechanical engineer and member of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, a group of more than 1,350 professionals calling for a new independent investigation into the destruction of Building 7 and the twin towers.
What do New Yorkers think about Building 7?
Help the BuildingWhat? campaign commission a public opinion poll on whether New Yorkers will support a new Building 7 investigation. We will send the results to every member New York City Council.
2 Easy Steps
1) Read the survey questions below and let us know what you think! Constructive feedback is encouraged.
2) Donate now to help us reach the $15,000 target. As of November 13, 2010 we are about half way there with $7,451. Any funds raised above $15,000 will be used for the next BuildingWhat? ad buy!
The Survey Questions
1) Did you know that a third building in the World Trade Center complex collapsed roughly seven hours after the collapse of the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001?
2) What was the name of this building?
3) Have you seen video footage of this building collapse?
4) In 2008, the federal government issued a report concluding that falling debris from the collapse of the North Tower ignited office fires in this building, World Trade Center Building 7, which eventually led to its collapse. Critics have argued against the findings of this report, suggesting that only the use of explosives can account for Building 7’s collapse. Specifically, as of November 13, 2010, 1,354 architects and engineers have signed a petition calling for a new investigation, adding, “The new investigation must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives”.
5) Given that there is ongoing disagreement in the engineering community as to the cause of this building’s collapse, would you support a new investigation?
Thank you for your generous support!
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Open minded he said!
As I watched this I was thrilled it did not end up being the hit piece I thought they'd try to make it. I thought for sure they woudl have some NIST friendly popular mechanics type engineer on to try and dismiss the explosions. I cant believe that did not happen. I knew either way that getting the exposure was paramount. But, this turned out even better than I thought it could possibly be. I did NOT expect Geraldo to say that he was now open minded! He says it is largely due to some family members who seek an investigation and question it. He also was impressed with the numbers of architects & engineers who say the same thing--he even says that they cannot be so easily dismissed like he dismissed the protesters (wrongly) before. That was as close to an apology as Ive ever seen although it wasnt--i am grateful--never thought id say that--but im grateful he admitted he is rethinking this and it is due to the experts who he admit know more than he and due to family members who have come forward. THAT is huge folks. I am just so thrilled. It is just the start. The Builing What? campaign is really making an impact--keep supporting it!!!
The Dam is Breaking...
Send it far and wide. Say it loud and proud.
Not a big fan of Geraldo nor the main stream corporate press, but this is significant.
Bob and Tony, et al...THANK YOU!!!
...
Truth rising rapidly! Let's
Truth rising rapidly! Let's make sure to spread this and make Geraldo the most popular guy this week.
BTW
BTW, Geraldo just removed himself from the list of media professionals who will be looking at criminal charges for the cover up of mass murder. I highly recommend many more media professionals to quickly get on board and remove any questions from the public's mind as to whether or not they are actively participating in the mass murder cover up.
Last thing: We now have a new
Last thing: We now have a new benchmark. Now, with regards to 9/11 Truth, we can use a reference point: Pre-Geraldo 9/11 Truth episode or Post-Geraldo 9/11 Truth episode.
Amazing
Props to Geraldo for getting back to being the guy who introduced America to the Zapruder film.
Good summaries by Bob and Tony under time pressure. Too bad there was not enough time for the nanothermite evidence.
Amazing this was aired - on Fox!
Noose tightens for Bush
Just when George Bush goes on book tour to polish/reinvent his image, along comes Geraldo with a really inconvenient Truth that will at very least tarnish him even more.
If he's not already haunted nightly by the victims of 9/11, he needs to be reminded daily about how the noose is tightening.
On that note, I notice (at a book signing) he's looking like more like a frail old man trying vainly to keep up the image of courage and self justification.
Obama in trouble not Bush
If this is on Fox then they will find a way to use it to condemn Obama. Now Obama will not be pro Building 7 investigation so that's how Fox can use Geraldo against him. Not that it matters about Obama - it's just Fox looking to garner support for Republicans for the next election. Bush will be protected by Obama no matter what.
Blame Bush
I'm not sure how that would work. if anyone concludes 9/11 was an inside job, the least they can blame Obama for is keeping protecting the real perps.
No matter how they spin it, the finger of blame still points directly at Bush/Cheney & co.
Obama will lose the blame game
Look what happened with the Bush economy, the Bush Wall Street bailout, and Bush's Afghanistan war. Who owns the blame for those things in the minds of most Americans not even two years after he is gone?
The finger that points back to Bush/Cheney might show an obvious conclusion to us, but like a dog, all the public usually sees is the finger.
Obama will be made out to be too slow to realize (unlike Fox) that the explosives in WTC7 were set in place to PROTECT the United States, and that as President he should have been able to keep the lid on the whole matter better, or some such nonsense. It doesn't really matter. Fox will never stand up for any truth unless doing so serves its masters. One of whom is clearly not Obama.
Agreed
This is pretty huge. Not sure who let this one through. I have such distrust for these people though... this almost makes me wonder... what are they hiding in the other hand... the one behind their back?
Keep Your Eyes And Ears Open, Folks
When things are too good to be true, they usually are- or however that old saying goes. Call me a crazy conspiracy theorist, but let's not forget how Fox operates. Although military Psychological Warfare is supposed to be used to wage war against a force's foes, I don't think too many people here would argue that what Fox has been doing amounts to a continuous PSYOP against our own nation. And there are thousands of soldiers and billions of dollars invested in MISO (that's what they renamed it recently; like Blackwater was renamed Xe).
Our jobs have just become DOUBLY complex, for we now have to continue unrelentingly all the work we have so tirelessly done, ON TOP OF working to understand and react to this latest strategy of theirs. We know from the outing of the Abu Ghraib sickness that the easy way out for them is to pin the blame and then make a show of punishing insignificant players at the bottom of the chain of command.
She wants more than that, she want's justice (don't look at this link if you are at all squeamish. And she was one of the lucky few, folks here will understand why...) :
http://eminemsrevenge.xanga.com/photos/f3482200529117/
H/T to Orlando
When things are too good to be true, they usually are.
Something smell about this whole thing. I really don't know what to make of it. Perhaps someone is trying to cover their ass. Lets face it, the truth about 9/11 is coming to the surface. Too many people know it was an inside job.
Beware of Major New False Flag Attacks
A nuclear 9/11 or major bio-weapons false-flag would undo the recent progress very quickly. The powers behind false-flags will not tolerate a loss of control.
That is why activism is so important, especially awareness efforts aimed at public safety and military personnel who are and will be utilized by federal authorities to scrutinize the U.S. public.
Well Fox me
I am... stunned. Fox?! I don't know what to say. What could possibly be their reasons to air this? I'm mystified. Nine years, and Fox News is the first to break this? Fox News?
I'm glad that Bob said that a new investigation into WTC 7 is only the beginning.
Anyways, here's the clip, as the above is only a picture and a link:
Given the hate campaign Fox News has conducted against 9/11 Truth, and given the complete lack of credibility the network has, it seems the airing of this interview might be exactly because of that lack of credibility: when it airs on Fox News first, the subject can be tarred by association. It forces us to be duplicitous about Fox: we cannot now discard the Fox network as completely compromised.
The possibility that Geraldo has editorial independence and that this was all his idea has to be considered. But I'm no fool and I will not trust Fox News ever. Given the coverage of Able Danger on Fox News earlier, it's safe to say this is a trend. The only thing we don't know, is the reasoning behind it.
All that said, I'm emotionally touched that Bob McIlvaine got this podium. He used the few seconds he was allotted to his maximum ability. Thank you Bob. You're a hero. And thank you Tony Szamboti, you've been exemplary over the years. You were the right choice to bring along.
Again, I'm mystified that Fox News would do this. One thing is for certain: the Building What campaign is now without question an unparalleled success in the history of the 9/11 Truth Movement.
Net positive
Your skepticism is understandable but from a totally objective point of view, this has a net positive effect.
Anyone watching this interview, regardless of their previous opinions regarding 9/11 was forced to think logically about the what is an obvious controlled demolition.
Hopefully they will be led to investigate further, which will lead to the obvious conclusion. 9/11 was an inside job!!!!
When the truth is this obvious, it should be easy to "convert the heathens."
Speaking of Able Danger...
"I know it is not easy to accept, as I know many folks have not had an easy time accepting the fact that there has been/is a conspiracy to cover up key facts of the ABLE DANGER project, but there appears to be real questions as to why World Trade Center (WTC) 7 fell...
I have never believed the official line that the building fell from ..."fires" - and I agree with Geraldo Rivera here - there are clear inconsistencies regarding the official story of the WTC 7 collapse.
This is another area that I believe there needs to be an additional investigation - conducted by a non-political, independent and qualified commission that does not have a preconceived conclusion." - Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer
I wonder if anyone is still going to accuse him of things.
I hope not
The backlash you're fearing is Mike 'Mighty Wurlitzer' Baker, Fox's resident CIA mouthpiece.
It took me some effort to rip this. Upped it to the Archive. Download link.
Here it appears the CIA is trotting out Baker to sow the seeds of doubt about the Able Danger whistleblowers, their motives and credibility. Listen closely to his quivering voice when he says this:
"Were there references to Atta either in his name or in one of his aliases ...uh...pre-9/11 on databases or charts, sure, yeah, there were countless references to countless potential suspects..."
Former CIA covert operative, now in the commercial sector. Yeah right. OTOH, I guess Sunstein's Popular Mechanics choir of shower singers hitting bad notes might get some airplay instead, since the subject of WTC 7 is technical in nature.
In any case, NIST"s WTC 7 report is a pseudoscientific farce, but WTC 7 is just a small part of the matters covered up by the 9/11 Commission. I agree with you that the media would love to turn us into a single issue-movement, because then it's that much easier for them to dismiss after the solitary issue is unilaterally declared 'solved'.
Fox has tried to bury the WTC 7 issue before, per a column of dubious reporter Jeffrey Scott Shapiro. When I tried to pull up that page now, it's a 404. Here's the cache: http://www.webcitation.org/5pBSDqMPd
SnowCrash
Yes something here stinks. I've seen Fox flip flop a lot. Let's hope that when the truth does ( and it will) come out, that anyone in the media found to be complacent in this cover up will have a nice prison cell as well.
Faux News Network
Fox News has had 9/11 Truthers on some of their shows previously. Primarily back during the heyday of Loose Change in 2006.
James Fetzer, Hannity and Colmes
James Fetzer, The O'Reilly Factor
Kevin Barret, Hannity and Colmes
Kevin Barret, The O'Reilly Factor
Robert Bowman, Hannity and Colmes
We have certainly made progress since then.... :)
And another important point to make is that the interviewer(Geraldo in this case) conceded that we might have a point, instead of dismissing us as a bunch of crazed buffoons.
Did this happen at Geraldo's request or what?
Geraldo may have had a change of heart, and he may have editorial control, but this is Faux News, so there may be some other agenda- people are right to be raising questions. Faux News claims to be 'fair and balanced' while acting like right wing media, but underneath it all Fox is essentially a propaganda tool for the Establishment elite which own both parties, most govt agencies, most MSM, and all of the MIC.
Fetzer was on Fox at least 3 times, and he and Barrett both appeared to be "crazed buffoons." Morgan Reynolds pushed 'no planes' on Fox, and so did Webster Tarpley- Tarpley's been on Fox twice. Bowman generally seems rational but to my knowledge has never distanced himself from the harmful behavior of the others- he's still a member of Fetzer's group. Also significant is that Hannity and Colmes was the show that featured most of these people.
EDIT- Nafeez Ahmed was a guest on Hannity and Colmes once; they kept trying to trap him, but he just kept using their own words and the words of the PNAC report to make his point, and they ended up looking frustrated and like fools. I've never found that appearance online.
would love to see more of Nafeez Ahmed
One of the most articulate and reasonable people to associate with 9/11 Truth. I'd love to see that clip on fox. Nafeez's books are even at Borders! Ahmed always presents himself in a reserved adult manner. If only more truthers and media would focus more on someone this qualified!
Me too
!
yes- if anyone can find that show, please post the clip
it was either 3/19/07 or 3/20- i know cuz i posted this comment the same or the next day asking if anyone had been taping- i was channel surfing and came in during the middle.
http://911blogger.com/news/2007-03-20/rosie-odonnell-joins-911-conspirac...
It's a great lesson in how to handle rhetorical dirty tricks- I looked for it about a half year ago at archive.org and checked foxnews.com- at the time there was a notice saying they no longer sold copies of shows
A political attack on Obama or Petraeus?
I am also wondering what the real motivation FOX News (Rupert Murdoch) has to promote 9/11 Truth, obviously it is not because they are decent people. This is at least the third case of them promoting 9/11 Truth this year.
The only theory I have come up with is that FOX News may be raising the issue of 9/11 Truth as means to cause political problems for Obama or control certain potential Republican candidates for President, such as General Petraeus.
Mike Huckabee
Bob Mcilvaine said on the Alex Jones Show today that Mike Huckabee was to appear on FOX News the same day, and back stage at the FOX Studio.
Huckabee shook hands with Bob Mcilvaine and Tony Szamboti apparently, and commended them.
This coincidence and the positive response to 9/11 Truth by Huckabee could indicate that FOX New (Rupert Murdoch) may be raising the issue of 9/11 Truth as a way to promote their favored Republican candidate for President.
the "they"
they, who we are generally against are not necessarily one unit that marches in lock step
some very powerful people in the world would of course be from old money (going back to who created the fed and why) others using military power may not be from old money
as long as the 2 groups dont tread on each others toes things go well (i add: "for them")
but i think its an oversimplification to see the world with no shades of grey
a book that has highlighted some of this to me is the assassination of julius caesar by michael parenti
in it you see parallels to today
patricians {old money- money lenders, bankers, rockefellers, etc
julius caesar {JFK- a populist
octavian {neocons- rose to power through military means
i dont think these types are all one and the same
i dont think "it"'s all one big conspiracy
Amazing, Incredible, Pick Your Word.
That's what I'm talking about! This is proof that ads can force news coverage. Thanks to everyone who helped put these historic ads on the air.
Big thanks to Bob McIllvaine, Tony Szamboti, and Geraldo Rivera..... Geraldo broke the Zapruder Film and now the Zapruder Film of 9/11!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFxLtGuLTdA
Thanks to you too RL.
And everyone else who helped spread this story and make it happen.. Let's keep it up!!
http://911blogger.com/news/2010-08-20/building-what-update-enough-reach-...
I concur
McGee has done tremendous work in the promotion of 9/11 Truth!!
what? what? what?
I was waiting for Gerald Posner to pop out from under the desk at any moment! I can't believe truth held the floor for an entire segment on MSM...groundbreaking is too gentle a term. Thank you to all involved and to world911truth for this historic post!
Gerald Posner!
Good one.
Did anyone else just hear a loud SNAP?
Wow. This is amazing really. The first time we've ever seen 911 treated this well by anyone in major media. I wonder what sort of viewer responses the show has been getting?
Time to speak more often to more people and say more!
This seem like a major milestone that can lead to even more truth coming out.
I have had good luck by stating how many architects and engineers there are at ae911truth.org that question the collapse of building 7.
The followup for believers in the official conspiracy theory is ...
"Do you believe that each and everyone of the more than 1300 architects and engineers are wrong?"
and ...
"are you an architect or engineer?"
Great job!
Courage
Great thanks and admiration to Mr. Rivera simply for having the courage to say the truth and state his opinion in a clear, unequivocal way. (It shouldn't really be necessary to praise people for not lying about mass murder....but our moral standards have obviously been plummeting for a while now.)
I also think it was great of Mr. McIlvaine to similarly state that a new investigation is just the "start". What we're talking about is mass MURDER - so I believe that the goal should always be to have the murderers investigated, arrested, and convicted. Not just to "expose the truth". (Imagine if that's the way the criminal justice system worked. "Yeah, judge. We arrested the murderer and he confessed. Now that we've exposed the truth, the murderer's free to go.")
Very cool. I hope that Rivera's courage quickly inspires his colleagues - Judge Andrew Napolitano comes to mind - and then the resources and minds investigating the murderers will grow in number, and quality.
Please join me in thanking Fox News!
I just sent them the following message via e-mail:
Thank you, Fox News!
I was flipping past Fox News tonight and caught 9-11 victim family member Bob McIlvaine and a mechanical engineer from Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth discussing with Geraldo the evidence for explosive demolition of WTC Building 7 and the terrible but undeniable implication of this fact: Since WTC Building 7 housed many federal agencies, including the New York station of the CIA, if it could only have been brought down the way it was brought down by explosive demolitions, then 9-11 must have been an inside job perpetrated by rogue elements of our own government’s “national security” state. When I saw Geraldo, a man who had previously mocked and ridiculed 9-11 Truth advocates on the streets of NYC, state on your network that he is now more open to these arguments than he had been in the past, my jaw dropped… and my heart soared.
I’ve been waiting nine long years for a major American media outlet to finally allow a frank and open discussion of this CRITICAL ISSUE on their network. And, incredibly, Fox News is the first major corporate news organization to step up to the plate. I must admit that the war on terror propaganda that Fox News has relentlessly peddled since 9-11 had made your networks virtually unwatchable for me (with the exception of Judge Napolitano’s Freedom Watch). But now that you have stepped forward to honestly confront this KEY ISSUE that we, as a nation, must confront if we are ever to exorcize our national demons, right our now sinking ship of state and restore the freedom (and real security) that has been taken from us since that terrible fateful day, I can feel good about watching your networks again.
The criminals that perpetrated 9-11 have turned this nation upside down and looted it, systematically, all in the name of so-called “national security.” And the 9-11 psy-ops (and follow-on false flag events) had conditioned many to become their unwitting accomplices, Fox News included. But truth cannot be extinguished. It can be ignored, ridiculed or denied for a while, but not forever. Now that Fox News has broken with these criminals to stand along side 9-11 victims’ families and the American people, your network has redeemed itself in my eyes. Thank you for finally lending your considerable corporate weight to what has heretofore been a long-suffering but undiscouraged grass roots movement to wake our fellow Americans up so that, together, we can save this great (but imperiled) Republic before it’s too late.
Historic!
Congrats' Tony and Mr. McIlvaine
YES YES YES!!!
Bob and Tony,
You were perfect. You have learned how to answer the "who how and why" questions without falling into that trap. Bravo!
The dam is breaking. Geraldo is changing his tune and others will soon follow. We have officially broken into MSM. They showed the implosion of WTC 7 on MSM for the first time in nine years. [other than a 4 sec clip in the HC documentary]
We just got millions(?) of new awake people. Some will not admit it right away but the seed of truth has been planted.
Tony, excellent presentation of free fall acceleration. Despite the interruptions, you stayed steady and on point. My most profound thanks and appreciation.
Chris
"with Dad"...
Geraldo is/was ready to get lippy and that was a cue. He was pushy, derogatory, disruptive, and derailing; so I agree that FOX has not 'caved in' to the Truth Movement. But, I do like the edits as this clip opens, nice brevity and on point. This ended on a good/positive rhetorical note, a tidy bookend, if anything. But, definitely BIG indeed.
Caveat: FOX=proceed with caution. Geraldo=100 ft pole
Mr. McIlvaine, your perseverance is a guiding light, thank you !!!
Kind of a trivial point, but....
There's probably better things to do with our time than bicker about our own subjective feelings about how Gerlado might have felt....but I'll still say that I disagree with your assessment of his demeanor. Taken as a whole, I personally thought that he was very respectful (within the parameters of the pop media industry and 8-minute TV segments) and he actually seemed eager to encourage the two guests to be clear. For instance, he went out of his way to give the address of BuildingWhat.org (when Mr. McIlvaine just mentioned it in passing) and he encouraged the mechanical engineer to communicate his idea in a simple, short way for the sake of the TV segment.
Most of all, though, there was this awesome quote that he closed it out with.
GERALDO: "It is an intriguing topic. I certainly am much more open-minded about it than I was, and it is because of the involvement of the 9/11 families and all these engineers and architects. Clearly, they know more than I do."
As I watch it again, you are
As I watch it again, you are right. Though, calling Bob McIlvaine, "Dad". Please don't blame me for looking for the worst in Geraldo, a burned out neural pathway for many I'm afraid.
Not to be trusted
Let's be clear, Geraldo's denials to the contrary... He KNOWS the truth! He's no dummy. He's a mouthpiece. So the real question here is... Who green lighted this story? And why?
lul?
geraldo is now a friend of the 9/11 truth? are you effing kidding me??? godspeed to mr.mcilvane and mr. szamboti.
funny how some people think it's ok to let these media figures flip-flop on the issue of 9/11. for 9 years they were silent
and ridiculed and demonized a lot of people. geraldo. a friend? seriously? i think faux is trying for an angle here.
the other day douche beck said sth about gvt staging a false flag attack, not geraldo... watch out boys and girls.
don't get fooled by these media scumbags. :)
I've dreamed silly things
I've dreamed silly things before,but this tops them all! Fox News giving 911 Truth a fair Shake LOL. When I wake up in the morning,I'm gonna have a good laugh at this one. LOL!
I...
Made this movie when the BBC released its debunking documentary about WTC7. I was furious because they referred to it as the "final mystery" of 9/11 as if the "case" was closed. The question of how those buildings came down is but ONE of the MANY mysteries of 9/11. Geraldo Rivera referred to it as, "the one 9/11 mystery that endures..." It makes me nervous that they're going to have a debunker on to "refute" what's being said, and then say "the one 9/11 mystery that endures" has been solved, and there's nothing more to the story.
Though he acted as if the family members haven't been speaking out since day one, and though he referred to us as nutjobs, congratulations to Bob and nyccan.
Edit:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/geraldo-much-open-minded-911-campaign/
"And all it took was the proper message." [...] "it puts the spotlight on people who lost family members in the 2001 attacks."
Get... out.
Edit:
Thinkprogress states "Media Matters’ Eric Hananoki, who notes that the conspiracy theories surrounding WTC 7 have been thoroughly debunked, adds that Napolitano has “dabbled in 9/11 trutherism before”
Hopefully, Geraldo won't pick up on this, or attempt to do the same. Or anyone else. If so...
Here is the 9/11 Report. I suggest you read it, and ask others to read it to understand the "official account."
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html
After that, I suggest you ask people to watch "9/11: Press For Truth"...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3979568779414136481#
Then I suggest you ask people to watch the companion DVD "In Their Own Words: The Untold Stories Of The 9/11 Families"...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4399917864007973679#
Then I suggest you recommend the "Complete 9/11 Timeline" to get people started...
http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=911_project
Then I suggest you recommend this series of movies I made called "What's Being Covered Up?"...
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20080326132655798
Here is what I call the "Gail Sheehy Collection." She is the reporter that reported on the "Jersey Girls" as they were doing their thing. It is essential reading...
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19899
Then I suggest you recommend the report on the inadequacies of the 9/11 Commission's Report compiled by 9/11 Family Members Lorie Van Auken and Mindy Kleinberg...
http://home.comcast.net/~gold9472/family_steering_cmte_review_of_report.pdf
Then I suggest you show people this list of unanswered questions compiled by the 9/11 Family Steering Committee...
http://www.911independentcommission.org/questions.html
Then I suggest you ask people to read the different letters sent out over the years by the September Eleventh Advocates...
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20090720125107330
Then I suggest you show the archived statements of the 9/11 Family Steering Committee that took place during the Commission and after...
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18031
Then I suggest you ask people to read the FSC's testimony before the 9/11 Commission. Especially Mindy Kleinberg, and Kristen Breitweiser...
http://www.911independentcommission.org/testimony.html
Here is an archive I made a few years ago called the "Who Is? Archives"...
http://visibility911.com/jongold/?p=157
Here is something several "veterans" for this cause wrote to better help activists...
http://www.truthmove.org/content/2008-declaration/
Then, if all of that fails to motivate people to fight for justice, you can show them my article, "The Facts Speak For Themselves"...
http://911truthnews.com/the-facts-speak-for-themselves/
Good luck!
Flabbergasted and some survey question observations
I am just drop-jawed, bug-eyed, down-right, flabbergasted. This should really have some legs to it.. Alex Jones, rawstory, If not already, I will post to digg. Geraldo Rivera saying he is now "open minded" to WTC7 was just priceless.. He did stay "in character" as I expected. He certainly tried to talk-over some and he went to what I refer to as the "Alamo" question, "Do you really REALLY BELIEVE [my emphasis] the U.S. Government was behind 9/11?" (sic) and Bob handled it well. They always seem to make sure they get that "label on you" in the end I've noticed. However, my advice to Geraldo Rivera would be not to ask Mr McIlvaine that question but ask yourself that question and then proceed to view the evidence with an open mind.
As for the survey questions; #2 should rephrased to a yes/no? i.e "do you know what the name was.., have you ever heard of.. If yes, Have you seen any public announcements or news report as given by U.S. (sic).
#4 doesn't really ask a question?
suggestions;
Have you seen the website buildingwhat.org and reviewed the issues and evidence it raises?
Do you feel you are now better informed about the issue of WTC 7 and the complication's with the WTC7 Report?
Did you know or [were you aware] of 1300+ A/E's disagree with the report?
hope this helps.. good luck.. I'll be chipping in too.. good luck.. GREAT JOB!!!!!!! The seeds of truth planted long ago are growing ever larger.
peace everyone..
dtg
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
"I much prefer the disappointment of a truth, than the illusion of a lie." Mary from Spencerport
oh one more tip..
to all in general.. if you get a chance interview with a press radio, TV, open forum etc.. getting the host to answer question gets you in control of the conversation and steer to your point (old Dale Carnegie " He who asks... drives") i.e. Have you seen our website? Did you review the issues? I know you said you not an engineer but did you take basic physics in HS/College?.. if yes/no you do understand that.. and so on. Seasoned interviewers will catch on to what your doing and try and regain the issue but good questions can keep them off-guard.. Great job again to Tony and Bob, words can't describe..
peace all
dan
Raw Story covers it here...
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/geraldo-much-open-minded-911-campaign/
Infowars is on it.
http://www.infowars.com/america-conducts-subversive-activities-in-friend...
Geraldo displayed...
... one of the most important traits of a truthseeker: the humility to admit, first to oneself and then to others, that one has been fooled.
Great coverage, but quite short, considering the importance of the topic.
"Controlled Admissions" - Be Advised...
Though it's great to see that we've pushed the truth out into a level of recognition/acceptance that DEMANDS even this twit respond to it, through Faux News, no less; We should recognize that just as they make use of "controlled opposition", they are now rolling out "Controlled Admissions" due only to necessity. They can not go on as they have been, effectively, without appearing to be in blatant denial of the obvious, in regard to Building Seven in particular.
This is great of course, but we should be aware that the aim is to now spin and control the resulting public outcry into the least effective path. Damage control if you will. Watch for them to limit blame to relatively low level components of the conspiracy, ones that are expendable, such as bush, cheney, and the like. And/or to use this as fodder for empowering Global Government to replace the "now admittedly complicit" or "failed" U.S. Government system.
Problem/Reaction/Solution on yet one more higher level of the psy-op. Co-opting the inevitable mass expansion of the Truth Movement, as the Tea Party and Patriot Movement has been to no small degree.
Look for Glenn Beck or even Geraldo himself to be positioned as the new front man. They are getting desperate now. Great.
Cheers,
Stewart Howe
WeAreChangeLA
Bush and Cheney are not low level
... But I agree they are both hugely expendable. And it seems both are being marinated ... Like a couple of Geese. Wouldn't it be amazing if the GOP turned on Bush /Cheney in order to save the party. My biggest disappointment with the Obama admin is their apathy regarding the crimes committed by the Bush JUNTA.
Dollar Value in TV Exposure - Hats off to "BuildingWhat?"
The "BuildingWhat?" Campaign prompted this TV exposure.
Hats off to the "BuildingWhat?" Campaign!!!!!!
The Dollar Value in NATIONAL television exposure from this 8 minutes of Fox News Story Reporting is incredible!
$$$$$
This is like a 100 to 1 payoff from the original donation dollar to the "BuildingWhat.org" campaign.
Visit and support the "BuildingWhat.org" Campaign.
http://buildingwhat.org/
PERFECT!
.
Bill O'Reilly
Will he stay quiet or will he respond?
This was very good & more will follow.
Silverstein collected $Billions from Insurance payouts for 2 terroristic attacks. This must be mentioned & questioned, the next time this subject is brought up.
Absolutely not!
That is a "conspiracy theory".
We need to focus on the science and avoid all references to conspiracy theories. That has always been the MSM hand wave excuse. Tony has "debated" with the OCTers enough to know that they will try to drag us into that trap and he did not fall for it.
The videos of WTC 7 imploding and free fall acceleration are the key factors of the Building What? campaign.
Previously on GERALDO:
Geraldo Rivera gets ambushed by 9-11 "Truthers" on Fox News
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey8LRoFPrOo
Is it just me?
This looks to me like the limited hang-out. Admit wtc7 was demolished but deny everything else. I think the plan is to officially expose that building 7 was prewired for demo because of the top secret status of the tenants, and who better than FOX to do the dirty work. They can point to the fact that building 7 fell just like a conventional controlled demolition, but wtc1 and 2 did not. They can claim that it was necessary to bring it down without implicating anyone for 1, 2, Pentagon and Shanksville. They can even justify the lies about it for national security reasons. I hope it will lead people to the other crimes of 911, but I don't think it's a coincidence that this is the one aspect of 911 for which they do not claim any al Qaeda involvement. I hope I'm wrong but I've thought that focussing on wtc 7 is wrong for this reason for quite some time.
good point but
I dont think we have much to worry about in that scenario.
IF the MSM continues the trend of 'supporting' the movement (and by proxy its leaders), then the movement will have the necessary credibility to shine the light where it will. AE9T, NYCCAN, etc. will be able to expose the other areas as well.
The only reason the MSM is even addressing this (you dont really think Geraldo grew a conscious did you?) is because they see large numbers of their sheeple ... uh, I mean audience ... moving to the alternative media. This is their way of saying "come back ... we have everything you need".
The cover-up
I've also emphasized that WTC 7 always needs to be discussed as part of the wider picture. However, admitting the prewiring and controlled demolition of WTC 7, the lack of a real investigation and the cover-up by NIST, etc. have so great implications that the erosion of the official story as a whole is likely to accelerate.
Again, the cover-up aspect needs to be emphasized more. The cause for the destruction of WTC 7 should - and could - have been determined by examining its debris. We know that didn't happen. And it didn't happen in the case of the twin towers, either. A young kid could see that massive skyscraper disasters are not investigated like this.
KISS
Building 7 and the "Building What?" campaign got us on MSM because it is simple and easy to see, like the Zapruder film. Remember that we are trying to reach couch potatoes who respond to sound bites. Don't try to give them something they have to "think about".
WTC 7 proves 9/11 was an inside job all by itself, there is no need to muddy the simple minds with any more information. Tony was correct to stay on one point - free fall acceleration. Bob supplied the [essential] emotional appeal. We should continue to focus on our Ace - The mother of all smoking guns.
Just the fact that they have never seen it before is a real eye opener to those just learning about WTC 7.
Once we get their attention with WTC 7, then refer them to sites that have all the other information. After seeing the videos of WTC 7 people will be more open to the rest.
If we all sing the same tune for a while we have a better chance of being heard.
I take back what I've said about Geraldo ...
He doesn't deserve to hung for his ignorant, ridiculous support of the OCT and his attacks on the movement - he merely needs to ashamed of his 'height of ignorance' and ostracized by everyone UNTIL he comes up with a formal and sincere apology.
I'm surprised at the support many have and give to Fox news and their cronies simply because they finally provide a tiny glimpse (out-of-time-my-ass) at the MOST important issue to ever face this current generation - 9yrs AFTER it would have been a good idea to do so.
I'd bet that privately, Tony and Bob feel the same way. There's NO excuse for the fact that the Building What campaign (great job NYCCAN !) to have to have been organized and funded by use truthers - it should have been done by a "fair and balanced" mainstream media outlet like Fox News.
Great job Tony, Bob, and AE9T !
Will This FOX News Piece Encourage Local Media to Look Further
Hello Truthseekers & Truthtellers,
First, I want to thank everyone that was involved in the Building What Campaign because your efforts are succeeding. If we get an independent investigation from NYC on Building 7 that considers scientific evidence this campaign might succeed in opening the door to further investigations. I also would like to see local media pick up on this broadcast and open the door for more interviews locally in our cities. This would be a good time to contact them again and let them know about the Building What commercials and the Geraldo interview with Bob Mcllvaine and Tony Szamboti. Take Care Matt
Back in 2007
I remember accidentally catching on TV what happened with Rivera and the 9-11 Truth demonstrators. I wrote it up here: http://www.petersnewyork.com/FOXNEWS.html.
Apparently I was in the Philippines at the time. Great news that Rivera helped to publicize the andidote to his earlier episode with the 9-11 Truth demonstration. Congratulations to the "Building What?" campaign!
yes, a milestone. . .
. . . perhaps marking the return of the geraldo of old who was the first to air nationally bob groden's copy of the zapruder film (channel 5 in nyc scooped geraldo locally, however, before channel 5 became a fox tv station).
i really liked the way geraldo kept the focus for bob and tony, who did well. way to go, guys!
also very impressed that larry ("pull it") silverstein's admission was broadcast. does geraldo have truther's on his staff now?
interesting how geraldo ran that clip of himself getting confronted by the alex jones protesters two years ago. geraldo used the clip to explain his change of heart by distinguishing those protesters from bob and tony. a bit slick and self-serving, but i guess it was something geraldo had to do to save face.
the tie-in to bush's new book (of fiction) made things current.
all in all, a lot to be encouraged about.
like some of the commenters here, i too worry if this might be a fox set-up of some kind, i.e., is this "too good to be true?" time will tell, of course, it always does.
in the meantime, let's savor the moment and build from here, because this 8+ minutes of geraldo focusing on the buildingwhat?! campaign is HUGE!
For me, the icing on Geraldo's cake.
"also very impressed that larry ("pull it") silverstein's admission was broadcast."
What "admission"
The "pull it" quote is still largely contested as an "admission" on Silverstein's part. The clip doesn't prove an admission. The vague references that I have found online to pulling out or pulling of a building are not enough to constitute industry slang. Further more, in order to prove "admission," it must be proven that Silverstein was indeed referencing the building and not the firefighters or peoples efforts in general when he used the term "pull it." Silverstein's intentions behind this quote cannot conclusively prove admission. I wish this were not the case, but I'm still not confident that this clip implies anything. I also see this lack of conclusion from the "pull it" clip as the reason why Fox would be so willing to show this documentary footage (much like the pentagon clips).
Wow!
Tony and Bob, thank you for representing the cause so well.
The interview was so respectful and Geraldo seemed to be sincere in his epiphany.
Rope-a-dope?
the real milestone....
....is that Geraldo apologized on national television for calling us nutjobs. And he did it twice in one broadcast. While I can't help but be a little suspicious about all of this "openness" from FauxNews, we need to call it the way it is. I hope other media types see that it's not so hard to admit they were fooled and possibly wrong in the past.
I have to admit, Geraldo annoys me, but I guess part of growing up is giving credit where credit is due, even if it's with people you don't like.
The "Building What?" campaign proves that for us to win, all we need to do is keep the message simple, invest some money, do things with class and people will respond.
Let's start thinking of ways to repeat this model over and over.
Does anyone have contact info for Geraldo? I'd like to write a thank you note to him.
interesting and entertaining how. . .
. . . geraldo went from the rosie clip to the alex jones' protesters clip by saying, "and if explosives were involved, that would mean that the most obnoxious protesters in recent years, were right." in effect , this is geraldo admitting to the world that he was wrong, IF we can show that explosives were used on building 7. which of course the architects and engineers for 9/11 truth, CAN DO. all we need now is a legitimate public forum.
any ny city council people reading this? how about someone from the manhattan da's office? come on guys, DO YOUR JOB!
email contact for Geraldo At Large program
atlarge@foxnews.com
If Geraldo can do this, isn't
If Geraldo can do this, isn't it WAY past time for Amy Goodman, et al to let the dam break?
Running Radio Spots on Amy Goodman
BW radio spots have also been discussed after the funding for the Public Opinion Poll of New Yorkers is done (already half-funded). This will be done by the Siena Research Institute and will cost around $15,000, as opposed to an online Zogby poll which would be less than $4,000 but lack the credibility of the SRI. This will be the ultimate follow-up tool for forcing the City Council to act.
Meanwhile I am looking into running the 30 second Asner spot against Amy Goodman directly. If she won't do her job, then we will take dead aim at her audience on air!
Amy Goodman
Amy Goodman does more than you know. She is on the list over at Patriots question 911 also. She is a valuable force. Her ability to speak depends on more than you know. Many that are not quite ready yet to fathom the corruption of our government, need to realize other crimes thoroughly first.
Think of the divers off of cliffs in Hawaii. First they start diving from a lower point, and when comfortable with that, the next higher level, and on to the next higher level. Let's be glad that Amy Goodman offers a level for many that precedes the point where we are.
That being said take a look at this, which she participated in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYedTmaHt1A
Also, let's drop this link in
Also, let's drop this link in threads around the internet where the anti-Truth people are, okay? I 'm talking about the one I just posted above.
good vid
i liked the part where they highlight the no planer / lizard idiot trying to make it look like they were part of another group of people who were bona fide 9/11 truth demonstrators in order to discredit us
This is great ....but
why now ? What's going on here ? Is this some sort of damage control ? Is the finger pointing going to start as the truth comes out ? I can only hope. Now is the time to make a huge push.
Geraldo at Large
I've always considered Geraldo to be something of a meatball. So I was quite surprised to see Tony and Bob McIlvaine on his show. It looks like all the time Tony has put into arguing with the JREF'ers is finally paying dividends. His comments were probably a little on the technical side but at least they were valid.
Geraldo at Large is a nice start, but the ratings are low and the discussion won't send reverberations through the rest of the media. To do that we need appearances on The O'Reilly Factor, Hannity, The Daily Show etc. We got those in 2006, but now we'd have an army of architects and engineers behind us instead of just a few lone college professors.
It also looks like they are discussing Tony's and Bob McIlvaine's appearance in the Dunciad.
"The greatest triumphs of propaganda have been accomplished, not by doing something, but by refraining from doing. Great is truth, but still greater, from a practical point of view, is silence about truth."
Aldous Huxley
Impossible
Tony you were excellent! You said the key word "impossible" three times, and maintained your composure so well.
Indeed this is a major milestone. Will they come out and eventually say that the CIA , for security reasons, has their offices prewired, and simply didn't want to expose this...and therefore "case closed"? We will see.
Regardless, this will cast HUGE doubt on the credibility on those criminals hiding at NIST.
Again, Tony, you were masterful!
got in 12 hours ago
and I've watched this about 20 times...
;)
The beauty
of this exposure, is that the Building What? website makes available to those who wish to learn more the links to AE911Truth, Firefighters for 911 Truth, etc.. Once people recognize the demolition of WTC7, the demolitions of WTC 1&2 become evident and it will be very difficult to explain away WTC7.
so when they say that the building was
wired for explosives for National Security reasons.. whats the next move?
My thoughts exactly
What's up with these "National Security reasons" anyway? Don't think they'll come out and actually mention those exact reasons.
This is another small victory indeed, one little step closer to our nearest goal, which will be to spread the word that something is basically wrong with everything, I guess. I still wonder what's going to happen next. I mean, the stakes are huge, and these perpetrators will no doubt be discussing their next move, and I think ultimately they will do their worst yet to try and keep the people afraid and dependant. We have to be prepared for that, but it's hard to imagine how exactly. How do you prepare for people who are used to decide over the faith of millions maybe billions of people's lives, who do not hesitate to decide that a few thousand random people in NYC should die, in order for them, whoever they are, to further their agenda? People who decide that three skyscrapers should be blown up in broad daylight, after which the evidence shall be removed, destroyed and held back, with a sham investigation, of which it is deeply concerning that the scientific community has not Long found the NIST report to be seriously, and I mean seriously flawed?
What will happen with the Judge, when it comes to court (even though we're still far from that point)? Who's it going to be, and how will he decide? It sure's something to look forward to, but also watched with a bit of agony by me, as well as lot's of excitement.
For now this is a promising step in the right direction.
truthoverprofit
good comment
good points
That was an interesting suggestion DH as to how/why the towers may have been pre-wired with explosives (justified by the '93 attempt as to prevent toppling). Not that it should be heralded as absolute, but it can suggest a way to nay-sayers on how it would be conceivable (even responsible!) to have planted explosives in the WTC with just cause. How they didn't need to bypass security to do this... that it was actually FOR security reasons why they did this. It also suggests that whoever installed the explosives need not have felt that they were part of some evil plot, but that they were doing it for the security of an unforeseeable circumstance". (and of course, they would be legally required to forever remain silent of their actions since they were of course classified) And like you said, at this point, only a very small group need be responsible for pushing the button.
And as Sandberg brings in, it is VERY necessary to anticipate these moves/outcomes so that we are not broken up by debating/wondering about "what next?"
..?
DH, what happened just now to your original comment?
tweaked and migrated
http://911blogger.com/news/2010-11-15/raw-story-geraldo-%E2%80%98much-mo...
Thank you BOB and TONY
congratulations .Well held. no fumbling !!. this is a GOLDEN moment.
Renaldo actually states his recognition of the FACT. That somethings WRONG. He has listened to, and responded to without insult, the words "inside-job." "Demolition" "explosives" and the physical reality of 8 stories FREE-FALL in his house without demur. In fact, with enthusiasm. There was NO mockery.
Thats a quantum shift right there.
National Security?
Other posters have floated the idea that "they" may eventually admit to the demolition of Building 7 while insisting that it was pre-wired and brought down for national security/safety reasons. In fact, Peter Lance of "Triple cross" fame -- a limited hangout book attempting to whitewash the story of Ali Mohamed -- made exactly this claim several years ago during a debate with Alex Jones.
This may also help to explain why Silverstein used the phrase "we've had such terrible loss of life" and that "the safest thing to do" was pull it. He later spun his words to imply that he was referring to the firefighters, but only after it became apparent that (at that time) hardly anyone that mattered was pointing out the obvious.
Personally, I think they will have a terribly difficult time saying, "ok, we lied to you about B7, and NIST cooked the books, but everything else we told you about 911 is accurate". They managed to do exactly this w/respect the lies about the air quality, but this is a different beast. Basically, if they admit to a lie this big it will open up the can of worms; there is no aspect of 911 that doesn't fall apart on scrutiny.
I would however be interested in hearing the opinions of others more qualified than myself about these matters. What are the problems with the theory that they demolished B7 for national security/safety reasons?
Well..
The most obvious problem might be that these reasons will not be made public record.
Another problem would be what to say in the safety reasons category. You don't just blow up a huge building, with that amount of valuable en classified information, for safetyreasons, in order to save human lives. Besides that, they would have to show the necessity of demolishing the building, and that's a little hard to do with what's on the table for them right now. For me, it's not even clear how those fires got started in the first place, but that's another matter.
But you would want to know who decided that it was safest to "bring the building down". Someone out there that day communicated that 7 was unstable and predicted it might collapse. Of course I would want to know whether this person (or any other fireman for that matter) expected this abrupt total & complete collapse at an average near freefall acceleration. Surely no one was expecting that when they heard or saw that the building was unstable.
I surely hope that Chief Daniel Nigro gets his day in court, where he will have to answer that question and many more.
Surely the investigation cannot stop there.
Any other problems?
Danse, I agree "it would open a can of worms"
It would open a can of worms "to admit" controlled demolition of Building 7.
I do not think that the other side will do this.
A better weapon (for the other side to use) is to keep the media relatively silent with only trickle stories about Building 7 without a mainstream sensationalism... ...and also other "news stories" which dominate in lieu of Building 7 news.
The other side also has the tactics of 'extending time', infiltration, causing discord with 9/11 Truth, and trying to hijack endeavors. The other side might even politically "hang" Gross or Sunder as inept, then try to hijack an re-investigation into Building 7 by utilizing government.
Thanks...
TomT and Sandberg. Good points and I agree, it would be extremely difficult to sell. If I recall correctly, Peter Lance claimed that they demolished 7 because it contained extremely sensitive information relating to "national security" (CIA, SS etc) which could potentially put thousands of other lives at risk, and that they were uncertain how large the plot was at that point. Obviously nonsense, but some people will believe anything when it comes to 911. Overall I agree with TomT that the risk is simply too vast for a limited hangout of this nature. I was thinking more in terms of what they might come up with if they were ever forced to proffer an explanation for the demolition -- short of admitting to treason.
Factions of "They" - (Variety of Vested Interests)
Factions of "They".
We all know that a variety of vested interests manipulate and/or control and/or benefit from certain actions or events. Some vested interests are higher on the "food chain" than others. Some vested interests just ride the trend. Some vested interests are more hidden than others. Some vested interests have more awareness than others. Different vested interests have their own agendas and their own "philosophies".
There are probably frictions and disagreements which develop with these factions of vested interests.
makes sense
good book mentioned here TomT
http://911blogger.com/news/2010-11-13/%E2%80%9Cbuildingwhat%E2%80%9D-app...
How strong is 911Truth WITHOUT the WTC7?
I am beginning to believe that the whole FOX/Geraldo this is calculated. Here me out:
The reason for demolition for security is indeed plausible, almost probably, and spin-able. Firstly, note that if the building was pre-wired for demolition due to an unforseeable reason, this of course would be classified, and remain classified even after the event (and for 30 more years?). So nobody would have been allowed to "officially" mention it. Remember, if WTC 7 was wired, what other buildings are wired in the US? So exposing this would logically bring up this exact question (which would shift media attention elsewhere...?)
Also, in a way, this would make operational sense for any intelligence installation: this location probably housed an enormous amount of sensitive information and of course it would have been conceivable that a scenario could occur which would require "scuttling the ship", and 911 was indeed one of those unforeseeable scenarios. On the morning/afternoon of 911 the entire security of the building was compromised (obviously so since a video was recently released which shows someone walking/filming unhindered through the lobby, and this would also explain the presence of a DOE agent on that video)
Furthermore, since the existence of the building being pre-wired would be classified, and of course all the files/hard-drives/info from the offices of the FBI, CIA, etc it was suppose to be destroying would also be classified, one would have to assume that the debris would indeed also be classified (to both hide the evidence of the classified explosives and any surviving classified info), which would then lead to a limited public investigation of the building site (and possibly even mentioning that it was classified would be forbidden/classified)
While I am just playing devil's advocate here, remember that nobody was known to have died in the WTC7 collapse, making it a much less severe crime scene in this sense. (I am not saying nobody died in WTC 7 beforehand, as I know Barry Jennings reported that he stepped on bodies). Also, I know Silverstein collected insurance from WTC 1 and 2, but how about 7? Does anyone know the full details of any pay-out/claim there?
And while I am over-joyed that 911 Truth is gaining public light, I would of course be concerned of putting all of our eggs in one basket. As it stands, a lot of the Truth Movement has focused much/all of their attention on re-investigating WTC 7, as it seems to be the weakest link. But what will happen if the re-investigation occurs on WTC 7 only, and it is proved to have been indeed pre-wired due to the sensitive nature of the tenants? Ironically, while we would be proven right of not believing the official story, we will also be proven wrong in that we've suggested nefarious reasons for its destruction. The Truth movement could come out with egg on its face and completely lose credibility if this was spun the right way, and the government could continue looking like it always was and continues to keep the best interests of the citizenry in mind by secretly "pulling" WTC 7. ("Yes, of course we lied, because it was classified. We lied for the security of the nation, but we made sure nobody was hurt. Also, we never included the destruction of WTC 7 as a case for the war.") While it may lead to more questions about the main towers, I would be certain that the gov/media will be very very quick and sure to point out that the collapses of 1 and 2 were very different than 7.
In a way, if 911 Truth does not immediately continue with strong follow-up if/when WTC 7 is shown to have been demolished on purpose, then our credibility will be shot as any attempt to bring this up again at a later date will be much more hampered. (imaging trying to expose 911 without WTC7? Actually, this was the camel-back breaking straw for many of you on this site, and is currently leading many to start their questioning now. If that was removed from the equation, then what?)
So the moment of linking WTC 7 to towers 1 and 2 is critical. But remember, as we ALL know, what is said on the media is controlled. If/when the WTC 7 demolition has been admitted to with "just cause", but exposure is limited regarding linking 1 and 2 (notice that Geraldo did not show the destruction of the twin towers), then our best card will be played. So if public attention can be pulled away from this crucial linking moment (all we need is a hot scandal or new terror event) then getting into the lime-light ever again will be extremely hard. We could be further painted as loons who just won't stop beating a dead horse. In a way, by exposing their cards on WTC 7 (and of course on FOX, their biggest puppet) it may result in a huge obstacle for us. If the government comes out and admits to pre-wiring, would the other evidence be strong/compelling enough to gain the public investigation we would still need?
Therefore, one would hope that there is a new investigation which will expose many of the other dubious happenings of the day and make many other links, and subsequently crack the bigger nut. But if there is a quick admission to the demolition so that it can be swept under the rug, apologized for, the attention taken away, our best evidence taken away, and the rest forgotten/ignored, then this might be the worst possible outcome for us. The stakes are high, but if 911Truth continues to gain steam and a new investigation does happen, this would be the worst case scenario for those who did it. So quickly burning our WTC 7 card and pre-empting/stopping a new investigation may be the best possible option for them. While there would be a quick burst of new truthers if they did so and a few days of "911 Truth" as #1 on Google, rest assured that NOBODY within the media will conclusively and steadfastly make the link that the entire 911 operation was an inside job (and if they did, just wait for more anthrax). I would be certain that the spin will be the other way.
Lets just hope that their plan backfires.
Good points J Bax.
You express clearly why I am at least a little concerned about this potential fall back position. Though I agree with TomT that it would be extremely imprudent of the perps to admit to demolishing 7, thus opening the can of worms, it remains possible that if they are backed into a corner with no avenue of escape they will pull the "national security"/safety argument. I don't think Geraldo is "in on it", mind you -- I think he enjoys sensational stories.
We have to think like chess players here, anticipating their moves. So while this giant crack in the media wall of 911 truth denialism should be pushed and pushed again, we should also be careful to link Building 7 with the 1001 other anomalies of the day, all of which point in one and only one direction -- INSIDE JOB.
Like chess players yes
What to do when "they" decide to come up with another falseflag card? Stephen Jones already once commented about something like that, that in such a case we should all be careful not to immediately point fingers to anyone the govt. claims is responsible, but instead collect some physical evidence from the crimescene whenever possible.
I have grave concerns that, once backed into a corner, they'll fall back on even more terror & chaos, a tried recepi. One can only hope that they will refrain from doing so, but the past is not a particularly hopelful indicator on this.
They tried to put Kissinger at the head of the 911-commission, who knows who they'll try to put up as the judge, when this gets to court.
They put up a halfbaked farce purporting to be a real investigation, lasting many years, how many years will go by before this new investigation is finally conducted?
At some point people will begin to really sense that they are being governed by something more sinister than it would seem at first glance.
They already managed to just ship away nearly all of the physical evidence from GZ, I think that sorta thing must be given more attention, and should also be prevented next time around, (if/when there is a next time). Also, when one goes down the line, and envisions a majority of Americans waking up to the idea that they've been told a complete lie about 9/11/01. The people behind the curtains will have to act & do something, and I'm pretty sure it won't be pretty.
As chessplayers, we have to ask ourselves, how do you respond to dirty moves like that? And you also have to wonder in that respect, what to think about another crucial aspect of this movement, which is, staying nonviolent? How is one and the other going to become something of an incorporated thing, responding nonviolently, whatever their move?
I can't get my head around that. I wonder if there are people who can.
How do you peacefully remove these people (who probably order the elimination of many people for breakfast) from their position, and put them in one that does justice (jail), so we can all be trying to make this world a peaceful and nice place to live for everyone in it?
This question scares me somewhat, and I think unconsciously it scares other people as well. It's one of the great questions and quests that mankind faces IMO. It may go a bit far but ultimately I think that's what everybody here's hoping.
So if love is the only way forward, how do we shape this love?
More good points Sandberg
The issues you raise are generally not discussed -- for obvious reasons.
We've all heard of the Raccoon-backed-into-a-corner fable; it exists for a reason. I've experienced it first hand -- a coon in a shed with a couple of garbage bags. I didn't attempt to grab the coon, lest I be attacked; I opened the shed door, removed the garbage and waited until sunrise. Coons may look cute, but they are wild animals and they fight for their survival; plus, they have sharp, sharp claws.
There is every possibility that if backed into a corner the perps will lash out with extreme violence. We saw with the anthrax attacks that they are willing to target journalists and even potential opposition leaders. Does anyone here think Wellstone died of a run-of-the-mill plane crash?
So we're stuck in a catch-22. Like the coon in the shed, the closer we get, the more dangerous they potentially become -- but the alternative -- allowing the myth to stand -- is more dangerous still.
What we need, at the very least, is some inside support. When Chavez was ousted in a coup, and hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans poured into the streets, the military backed the people. They refused to slaughter their sons and daughters and brothers and cousins. One may hope, without much precedent, that something similar may occur in the United States when we bring these bastards to justice. The alternative is almost too horrible to contemplate, though I fear that most American military personnel have been brainwashed beyond repair. And there's always Blackwater.
Still, I retain faith in the ability of the American people to do the right thing. It's not really justified -- check out the sordid history of the American state attacking labor unions -- but America has always been more dream than reality. Dare I dream that when it "comes to the pinch", as Orwell wrote, that American soldiers will do the right thing?
Catch-22 indeed. In fact
I think it's the only thing that can save us from some very dark coming episode in human history, Those people in suits who appear to be in charge are only as powerful as their bodyguards en the people who listen to them, and do as they say. This goes all the way down the chain of command to the people out there doing the "dirty work" (soldiers, assasins (I wonder also about MKUltra-stuff), bodyguards etc). If they can start a mutiny somehow, then maybe we have a chance. To have the greatest possible chance of achieving this, it's necessary to raise as much public awareness as possible, with the ultimate will to go out into the street and demand this crazy game be put to an end.
I believe this Mark Dice character already tried to get the word out to the US soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, back in 2008, something that a certain Michael Reagan didn't like all that much ( http://911blogger.com/node/16100 ). Don't really know if it has had any effect at all on planting a lot of seeds of doubt.
And like you mentioned, the thing you fear, about most American military personnel, will prove to be the decisive factor whether we'll have a chance to make it out of this alive and well, or whether we oh well, fill in the blank.
Excellent Appearance
Geraldo 'made it' by exposing to the world the terrible treatment of people with disabilities during the time of institutions in this country. He has in the past shown tremendous concern for the human element to news stories, and that's the great thing about the 'Building What?' campaign. It ties together the real faces, the family members of those lost with the professionalism of the members and signatories of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. That campaign, which has seen some success in New York city got a huge publicity boost via airing on a nationally broadcast news program on a mainstream station.
This is an amazing turn for the citizens of this country. Many, many people were and are being exposed to one of the single most important issues of our time in a fair and positive light. It is also of course a huge boon for the truth movement. Another crack in the facade. Bob said that a new investigation would be a fine beginning, but its not nearly enough. I agree. And hopefully, the millions of people this was exposed to will agree and do the right thing.
Many thanks to Bob and Tony who were sincere, informational, and classy in their brief time with Mr Rivera.
Fox News hit piece on Jesse
I sent a comment to that site with a few questions to be asked of Jeffrey Shapiro. Obviously they didn't like my comment and were screening comments, trying to prevent a lopsided result. The number of comments was continuously changed on the web site. I took screen shots of the ever changing comment section as I believed it was ridiculous. I believe there were probably thousands of comments posted and most were in favor of 911 truth, and supportive of Jesse Ventura. I believe that entire episode caught Fox News completely by surprise. I posted another comment without the original questions posed to Shapiro, and it went through and was posted.
MIND-BLOWING!
Thank you to Mr. McIlvaine and Mr. Szamboti. Thank you to all at buildingwhat.org. It's totally amazing.
Paul
http://www.911artists.com/
behind the curtain
This is a fascinating development and completely unexpected. Comments posted here have been pondering the meaning of this, and here I offer a different perspective based on what might be happening behind the curtain where the grand wizards pull on the levers of power.
I can only surmise that there is a struggle occurring over power and future directions. Picture in your mind the handful of individuals at the highest levels of intelligence & military policy who secretly set the course of USA policy (sorry to shock you if you thought that voters and elected representatives did that). Surely in the late 1990's there was not unanimous agreement regarding what ultimately became the 9/11 false flag terror events that spawned two unending wars. The proponents must have exalted the great wealth and international power that a pipeline across Afghanistan and control of Iraq's oil would yield. Others would have expressed grave doubts and strongly opposed the general idea of a violent grab of access to mineral resources. When the proponents acted on their objectives by collaborating with their network of moles, mercenaries and foreign agents to author the 9/11 events, the opposing group must have been horrified, and though excluded from the details they were surely certain about who was responsible. With the help of the Bush/Cheney organized crime mob, these powerful opponents were kept off balance and denied any recourse.
But now it is readily apparent that whatever the imagined "net benefits" were in the minds of the 9/11 authors, they have not come to fruition. Their opponents presumably now fear for not only their own financial well being but perhaps for the viability of the U.S. as a whole, for we clearly cannot keep pouring money into the wars, yet there is no politically achievable way out. What to do? At this point, powerful people are floating some trial balloons to see if they can use 9/11 truth to both protect their own financial interests (i.e. Murdoch doesn't favor economic collapse) and advance their own political goals (i.e. torpedo Jeb Bush and his crime family whose grand larceny has sunk the economy). If there is no backlash, then we will continue to see more of this sort of thing.
In other words, be prepared to collaborate with Murdoch et al. in ending these wars and saving our country, while simultaneously engaging in political debates in which the collaboration is strained.
May you live in interesting times.
Murdoch et al....ending the wars?!
Personally, I expect to see unicorns before I would ever see 'Murdoch et al.' helping with 'ending these wars,' 'saving our country,' or doing anything else decent for that matter. It's just one of those things I'll have to actually see before I would believe.
This is just one show. Can we at least wait and see before we form definite opinons about what is happening behind the curtains, and what will happen next? For all we know, Rivera may be being reprimanded by his bosses for seeming too open and supportive.
Is there really any indication that the elites (Murdoch et al. or however you want to think of them) are any less committed to US military hegemony in Central Asia / Persian Gulf than they were before? Has their coverage of domestic terror scares noticeably changed at all? Or their rationales for the wars and occupations? Has their employment of the term 'conspiracy theorist' been any less derogatory than before?
I believe they are giving what attention they do to 9/11 truth not because they want to, but because they have to. That they have to is to our credit (mainly to AE911truth and to the victims' families).
Might more open-minded reports like this become the norm? Too soon to tell. Perhaps one of the comments farther up in this thread (TomT at 5:40 pm, Sunday 11/14) was on the right tack.--rather than simply limited hang-outs, maybe they've decided to allow more substantive disclosures here and there, so long as they can keep the coverage isolated to certain programs, certain channels. Meanwhile, news coverage in general will continue pretty much as it has since the day of 9/11 itself. Just as there are people who think 'If it's not on TV, it didn't happen,' or, 'If it's not in the NY Times it didn't happen,' there are also people who think, 'It's not significant unless they tell me it's significant,' 'If it's not the lead headline on the newspapers, or the lead story on TV news, or on the cover of Time or Newsweek, it must not be very important.' Unless they see a major media outlet with the headline announcing. 'Official 9/11 story unravels!,' they won't pay attention to the issue of 9/11 skepticism. The powers that be may be wagering that they can still hold on to enough of those people, even as they allow a few safety-valves where 9/11 truth can be aired.
The outcome? Stay tuned....
I would agree wholeheartedly
I would agree wholeheartedly but for the way the Geraldo piece was put together. Except for omission of any mention of explosive residues, it would have been difficult to present a more effective WTC7 expose in that amount of time. This leads me to think that something important has changed, that the invisible elephants have shifted their weight from one foot to the other. Clearly my imaginary peek behind the curtain is taking an inch and running a mile, but I think that it is important for this track of discussion to do more than express our immediate joy and skepticism. This whole business of 9/11 is about power plays that happen out of sight. We’ve learned to read some of these, mostly in retrospect (e.g. Rumsfeld’s revelation of the missing trillions on the eve of 9/11). My speculative remarks are an attempt to take what I’ve learned and project it forward. Clearly this particular projection could be way wrong, but it gives me at least a glimmer of hope and optimism.
Scope
While this may seem huge to us, and gets massive amplification in our echo-chamber, it is only a blip in the MSM.
They maintain credibility by mentioning this, because they need to answer the campaign.
I agree, that if MSM does not say it is important by giving the issue massive amplification, then people wont think that it is important.
There's a very long stretch from seeing a few fragments of 911truth for the first time, and to the point where you realize that this is something you need to act on.
Very Few Are Encountering Our Claims for the First Time.
We are all over. This segment on Geraldo may seal the deal for many.
"There's a very long stretch from seeing a few fragments of 911truth for the first time, and to the point where you realize that this is something you need to act on."
Strike that
Thought about deleting the 'first time' part, as it obviously only polutes the argument, and makes it vulnerable for cherrypicking.
Try this on:
"There's a very long stretch from seeing a few fragments of 911truth, and to the point where you realize that this is something you need to act on."
Get the point now?
The thing is: People are different. What compells you, is only a distraction to others.
True, Some Fools Will Never See the TRUTH.
but seeing/hearing our claims again and again from different sources helps break the psychological barriers.
Very important point! "seeing/hearing our claims again & again"
"Repeat the message"
"...seeing/hearing our claims again and again from different sources helps break the psychological barriers."
Repeat the message across many venues.
This is a proven marketing technology.
It is almost an axiom.
RAW STORY
Geraldo ‘much more open minded’ about 9/11 thanks to NYC television ads
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/geraldo-much-open-minded-911-campaign/
Raw Story...
awesome write-up by Stephen C. Webster...
Geraldo ‘much more open minded’ about 9/11 thanks to NYC television ads
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/geraldo-much-open-minded-911-campaign/
edit: damn, Joe...good minds think alike!
DONATE
take it from me - i donated $2000 in total over about 3 instalments to nyccan, way back and now i'm starting to think that its the best bang for the buck ive had- they got serious, they got advice on campaigning, media image, etc and they got big
DONATE
Awesome!! Thanks Douglas.
You can also donate to the BuildingWhat campaign here:
Or get there through their site here: http://buildingwhat.org/
This is arguably the most
This is arguably the most pertinent 9/11-related piece on mainstream television since 9/11 itself. Most significantly, Geraldo admitted that: ".... it is an intriguing topic... I certainly am much more open-minded about it than I was, and its all because of the involvement of the 9/11 families and all these engineers and architects. "these people (the architects and engineers) clearly know more about it (9/11) than I do". I am amazed that Geraldo and Fox News broke the 9 year taboo on sensible 9/11 reportage on TV... Who's next? Cue Bill O'Reilly, Keith Olbermann, Amy Goodman, Wolf Blitzer, Sean Hannity etc etc etc....... don't get left behind!
TIME TO PUSH
Regardless of our evaluations and suspicions of this gift horse, the ball is clearly in our court now. We need to flood the Geraldo show and Fox news at large with our thanks and our demands. Geraldo clearly rushed through this brief segment and got it out of the way as soon as possible. We need to voice our concerns about the dire nature of this subject, and suggest, even demand, that more in-depth programming on the 9/11 issue be aired. Suggest he spend an entire show or more on the subject, and host an in-depth investigative debate between the leaders of both sides of the issue. Suggest inviting Mr. Gage, Dr. Jones, Dr. Harrit and others to present their findings, countered by the mouthpieces from Popular Mechanics. Geraldo just opened the door a crack. We need to put our foot in it and force it open further. Let's get busy.
The Truth is coming...Can you feel it?
Raw Story
Comments heating up at Raw story, with truth advocates positively trouncing the OFT true believers.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/geraldo-much-open-minded-911-campaign/
Reminds me of..
Richard Gage on KMPH Fox 26 in Fresno, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO2yT0uBQbM
Wow.
Wow.
Best line
"If explosives were involved," he continued, "that would mean the most obnoxious protesters in recent years ... were right."
tipping point?
Not sure if there is a correlation, but does anyone know of the "webbot" project? (Program which mathematically computates future trends from the entirety of info available on the internet.) Originally intended to predict stock prices, it has also forecast many other events, including 9/11/01, but it has also been quite wrong. (So I am NOT suggesting I give it complete credibility.)
I don't want to sound flighty here, but I understand that the webbot was predicting for quite a long time that a massive world-altering "tipping point" was suppose to occur early in the morning of Nov 14. The "prediction" also called for a build-up to this beginning about Nov 5, and then it would continue with an additional 2 months of "emotional tension" until January (with huge "anguish" around Jan 8th). They try to be as accurate as possible with the time/dates, but plus/minus a couple days is also given.
Oddly, not to suggest it is believable, but the BuildingWhat ad camapign and Geraldo's potentially landmark media-silence-breaking interview does fit the mold, the effects of which are not yet known, but indeed could/would be quite emotionally tense. (please, hold off on calling me a fruitcake. I am just pointing out what I still see as a coincidence)
The story
is not even on the front of Geraldo's FOX news-page
http://www.foxnews.com/geraldo/
Even worse
The story is nowhere to be found on that page.
For the archives...?
Sometimes journalists record some footage not because they're interested in using that for any broadcast purposes today - but moreso for the future.
Many times I've seen interviewers ask very obvious questions of interview subjects who are of age, lets say 75+, so they can pull that footage out after the person is deceased. "How would you like your work to be remembered?" and similar questioning.
Geraldo/Fox may just want this in the archives for a "we were there first" factor, at some point in the future.
Just a thought.
Its only been 48 hours or so since that aired. If any other networks pursue further coverage, then we have a trend.
A single datapoint (ie: first fair coverage on large audience U.S. MSM) doesn't indicate a trendline...
Program's mailbox full
Delivery has failed to these recipients or distribution lists:
atlarge@foxnews.com
The recipient's mailbox is full and can't accept messages now. Microsoft Exchange will not try to redeliver this message for you. Please try resending this message later, or contact the recipient directly.
- - -
This could be connected to the 9/11 episode...
Geraldo's email box is full. Try FNCSpecials@FoxNews.com
I tried to send Geraldo a thank you note, and got the same message.
Newswatch@FoxNews.com is also full.
Here are some alternatives from
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77538,00.html
FNCSpecials@FoxNews.com seemed to go through.
Fox can see that many people are still intereted in news about 9/11.
What do think of the Kool Aid now
heraldo? He's taken the red pill and sooner or later he will have to wake up out of the matrix! Even if this is the first stage of a limited hangout position it means trouble for the perps as more people look into the details!
Thank you, gentlemen
Bravo, Tony. Focus on the physics was key. We've come a long way since 2006, haven't we?
WTC 7 cannot be "hung out" to contain the damage. Revelation of its demolition will bring down the whole facade in time. At this point the corporate media are just looking for a place to fall.
For those interested...
In the ENTIRETY of the 9/11 Cover-Up...
Here is the 9/11 Report. I suggest you read it, and ask others to read it to understand the "official account."
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html
After that, I suggest you ask people to watch "9/11: Press For Truth"...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3979568779414136481#
Then I suggest you ask people to watch the companion DVD "In Their Own Words: The Untold Stories Of The 9/11 Families"...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4399917864007973679#
Then I suggest you recommend the "Complete 9/11 Timeline" to get people started...
http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=911_project
Then I suggest you recommend this series of movies I made called "What's Being Covered Up?"...
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20080326132655798
Here is what I call the "Gail Sheehy Collection." She is the reporter that reported on the "Jersey Girls" as they were doing their thing. It is essential reading...
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19899
Then I suggest you recommend the report on the inadequacies of the 9/11 Commission's Report compiled by 9/11 Family Members Lorie Van Auken and Mindy Kleinberg...
http://home.comcast.net/~gold9472/family_steering_cmte_review_of_report.pdf
Then I suggest you show people this list of unanswered questions compiled by the 9/11 Family Steering Committee...
http://www.911independentcommission.org/questions.html
Then I suggest you ask people to read the different letters sent out over the years by the September Eleventh Advocates...
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20090720125107330
Then I suggest you show the archived statements of the 9/11 Family Steering Committee that took place during the Commission and after...
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18031
Then I suggest you ask people to read the FSC's testimony before the 9/11 Commission. Especially Mindy Kleinberg, and Kristen Breitweiser...
http://www.911independentcommission.org/testimony.html
Here is an archive I made a few years ago called the "Who Is? Archives"...
http://visibility911.com/jongold/?p=157
Here is something several "veterans" for this cause wrote to better help activists...
http://www.truthmove.org/content/2008-declaration/
Then, if all of that fails to motivate people to fight for justice, you can show them my article, "The Facts Speak For Themselves"...
http://www.911truthnews.com/the-facts-speak-for-themselves/
Good luck!
Art of war: prepare for next battle
I don't know if this is a limited hang-out or not, but OUR intelligence should be telling us that either way, it is a victory for truth.
If the directors of psyops have concluded that the only course of action is for them is to "admit" that Building 7, along with all secure government installations, was pre-wired for demolition in the event of a catastrophic risk to state secrets, then this is a victory. It would be a risky act of desperation on their part for so many reasons.
The thing for us to do is to NOT wring our hands about the machinations of our adversaries. Rather, it is to anticipate their moves as best we can and prepare the strongest response. We now have ample evidence of their strategies and tactics.
In the event that there is an eventual admission that Building 7 was taken down through controlled demolition, an immediate joint press release should be circulated by all the major 9/11 truth organizations, followed by a press conference. The message should be something like the following:
"For [blank] years, the government has withheld the truth about the destruction of WTC7. Their position, apparently, is that U.S. citizens CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH. With rare exceptions, the mainstream media had failed to adequately cover this important story, or when they did, more often than not, their attitude was one of ridicule and derision toward the independent citizen-investigators who were doing the job that professional investigative journalists SHOULD have been doing. In some cases, the careers and livelihoods of courageous 9/11 truth activists were damaged or destroyed.
"We are now here to tell you that the story is not over. The same scientific methods used to ascertain the truth that Building 7 was destroyed through controlled demolition tell us that the the twin towers were also destroyed by controlled demolition. This time, we hope that we have earned the right to a fair hearing, free from the noise of ridicule, denial and thought-stopping rhetoric.
"We are encouraged by our vindication, but will not rest until the international criminals responsible for the crimes of 9/11 are brought to justice."
If it were a limited hang-out
...in which NIST admits that Building 7 was pre-rigged, then they have proven themselves fantastic liars because they went to the extreme lengths of developing a computer model of the collapse to hide this fact. Who would believe any other "truth" that NIST might field instead of its Final Report? No one.
Personally, I have always suspected that the official story was designed to have a shelf life of a mere 10 years or so, by which time certain other geopolitical goals will have been achieved and it will be time to declare the Republic defunct. Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows?
But what would it do to the country if there were a mass realization that the government deliberately engineered this false-flag attack , killing 3,000 of its own citizens in order to illegally invade and occupy two other resource-rich countries -- which then caused the deaths of millions of foreign nationals. Americans would never be able to feel quite the same about their government ever again. We would be like Germans recovering from the Nazi-era.
Organization needed
Yes Turboglo, we should anticipate this and/or other outcomes and prepare a next step. Keeping the public focused on connecting the falsification of WTC 7 and the fabrication of the rest of the story is very important.
Therefore, as 911 Truth gains such momentum, whether on its own or due to the admissions/side-stepping of the "other side", we should be making contingency plans for our next moves regarding all potential outcomes. It will be hard to predict what rabbits they may pull out of their hats, but having outlines for press releases ready is one very good step. Having basic plans for after-the-fact demonstrations would be another (ideas for signs, locations, etc). If the Gov't admits to pre-wiring WTC7 for security, the evidence in many videos/websites will suddenly become dated (NOTE TO VIDEO-MAKERS: this signals an opportunity. I suggest making new 911 video now which anticipate such an outcome, mentions it in the narritive of the video, and shows how/why it links to the rest of the 911 story. Have it generally edited/scripted and ready for a quick release assuming that one day there is a sudden admission of some sort.)
Furthermore, how do we handle possible spins on a "new" story? How do we make connections to the bigger picture without confusing people? And what do we do with high-profile band-wagoners?
As this gets bigger, organization will be key. At some point there will be necessity to have a central "command". Who? Where? How do we stop the movement from being "hijacked" by a glory hog who may (purposely?) lead us in the wrong direction? (suddenly Geralodo leaps to mind) What is the potential for even our own "leaders" from stale-mating us from within as they jockey for power?
As with most grass roots movements, we have been fairly rag-tag for years. There are currently dozens of web-sites, groups of different colors, and a plethora of hotly debated "theories" and tactics. Many (though few will ever admit it) are using their positions/views as a source of income, and some will therefore be reluctant to consolidate views, work together, and/or give up some of their share/profits for the greater good which they originally started this for. This spells danger, and it is another real outcome we must confront NOW, before we are put into a position where there is a power-vaccuum due to being over-successful.
PS -Anyone who claims that a centralized command/position of some sort is unnecessary for us, please realize that such dis-organization is EXACTLY what the perpetrators would want (unless, of course, they could insert their own Manchurian Candidate as out leader)
I think this is the most important
comment of this whole thread. Couldn't agree more, well spoken, thank you.
A "truth congress" of some kind
is what is needed in my opinion.
Each group or locality would have a representative. Said representatives would meet virtually online on a regular basis with in person meetings a few times a year, as needed and as possible.
One of the movement's great strengths is its diversity and its decentralized structure, so while we do want to increase our ability to communicate and coordinate with each other, we do not want a classic top down structure that will be easier to co-opt and/or disrupt.
Our organically grown grassroots nature is the ultimate political laboratory, providing an excellent way for each group to experiment with governance and create multiple organizational models which can work for a variety of situations. From this will come the processes and structures that we will need as we move forward through the tipping point and to the post-9/11 truth period when we all will need to work together managing the massive social/political changes that are ahead of us.
Social movements are about creating a collective consciousness that primarily focuses on common interests and agreement upon courses of action.
We have long needed a more formal process for disseminating information and determining movement strategy and tactics, as conditions change and needs require.
This all requires an ongoing conversation, of course.
I am often asked "what happens after the truth breaks through"?
We definitely need to start planning for the next phases of the inevitable revolution, or we risk letting those who have used chaos in the past to advance their agenda and start the grand game again.
I hope that you and yours are well.
Let's not be too distracted by "events" in the msm, brothers and sisters, quietly educating the public has brought us this far and we have no reason to stray from that path (learning is a lifetime process, yes?).
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
YES!
A truth "congress" of some sort. An open invitation to establish a collective campaign for any group/presenter/family member/media outlet which can get behind one basic premise: the current 911 story given to us is at some level untrue and it is necessary for We the People to determine what actually happened that day to move forward as a nation (though it can also be an international forum).
This congress could establish general principles which can be agreed upon (Jon Gold's "Facts" list would be a good keystone). Also, determine effective courses of action which are focused and consolidated. And consider the implications of growing acceptance in the general public, the inevitable accountability, and the post-truth results/aftermath. This type of congress would also establish credibility base-points, as well as questions which require publicly stated answers, so that the issue can not be side-stepped, spun, or hijacked.
(**as fantastic/necessary as this is, it is now becoming off-topic and lost within a very long thread, and should be discussed and developed in its own posting)
Bear in mind
that there was obviously a deal struck to make sure that they were PROHIBITED from discussing evidence that the twin towers were also brought down by a controlled demolition (although an unusual top down one) killing 1000's in the process.
They'll let WTC7 in, but not the idea that the twin towers did not "collapse" as a result of the plane impacts and fire at the level of impact.
What evidence
do you have for this claim?
Bob Mcilvaine Interviewed by Alex Jones Today-Monday
Bob Mcilvaine: "BuildingWhat?" Project Airs on Fox's Geraldo Rivera!! - Alex Jones Tv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRIV702eBfg
Write to the US media to give them feedback
Below are US media contacts:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=111
Addresses from that link also pasted below:
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OUR NEXT MOVE!
Should be to link A&E 911 truth to all buildings. !!! Emphasize that the A&E folks say that all three towers fell without resistance and in demolition fashion etc .
This will cut off their attempt to isolate our queen "WTC7" and foil the limited hangout checkmate plan. Start talking up William Rodriguez , molten metal and thermite.
I disagree
I respectfully disagree with the above proposal. Avoid talking about the twin towers at this time. They were hit by airplanes and suffered significant structural damage - WTC 7 was not hit by an airplane. It is claimed that fireproofing was lost in the twin towers. No such claim can be made for Building 7. Building 7 fell a significant distance at literally free-fall acceleration. The same is not true for the twin towers. Keep the attention focused on Building 7 for now, for which the evidence is solid, and examination of the twin towers will naturally follow later. Do not mention William Rodriguez - some of his claims are dubious and can not be corroborated. Let him serve as a witness in investigations when they come. Molten metal, while supported by many witness accounts and secondary evidence such as iron-rich spheres and glowing material pouring from the south tower, is contentious among the general public and a topic best left for those who dig deeper. The evidence for thermite (nanothermite) is very strong, but should be presented very carefully and cautiously, to ensure that the audience clearly understands why the evidence for thermite is very strong.
The presentation by Bob McIlvaine and Tony Szamboti was nearly perfect, and should serve as a model for how the 9/11 Truth movement should present itself today.
we know all three towers were brought down with
controlled demolitions. A&E says so too. Rodriguez lends credible evidence of explosions prior to the planes. We need the public to associate all three towers with demolition asap. The potential limited hangout will be that WTC7 was pre-wired for National Security reasons and the Twin Towers were brought down by planes...........and no further investigation is warranted.
I would have felt better if Tony Z. had said he had a problem with all the towers rate of fall and lack of resistance. In the end an inside job on WTC7 does not have to a total inside job depending on how it gets spinned by the MSM and power elite.
Don't suggest we'll be satisfied with only WTC7 truth
Peacefulwarrior and Wildbear, you are both right in a way. It would indeed be necessary to avoid confusing people with too much info and it would hurt our case to say that WTC7 and towers 1&2 are completely the same, but it is also necessary to inject wider ideas of discord in the whole story while we have people's attention. To wait for an investigation to mention other evidence and connections may be an infinite wait. Realize that an investigation would be exactly what "they" do not want, so admitting before any fruition of an investigation to a limited but justified "conspiracy" regarding WTC7 may be a way to burn our strongest sticking point and prevent any such investigation of the entirety of 911.
As you mentioned, I agree that the presentation of Bob and Tony was fantastic and was "nearly" perfect, but sowing the seeds of connecting it to the bigger picture would have been a slam-dunk. With the exception of the final somewhat jagged statement by Bob, the Geraldo interview (and also the whole BuildingWhat campaign) suggests that if the truth is learned about WTC7 then the families, architects and much of 911Truth will finally be laid to rest. We should not give this impression. (a strong, short connecting statement would have been: "...furthermore, we can clearly see that many of the oddities and similar physics defying evidence of Building 7 was also seen in the destruction of the twin towers as well. So understandably, we want a re-investigation of all three buildings.")
Re: Don't suggest we'll be satisfied with only WTC7 truth
I somewhat agree, J Bax. I just want to see the 9/11 Truth movement completely shed the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorist image; and I feel that the evidence associated with Building 7 is strong enough that it can withstand scientific scrutiny without need for theories. The evidence associated with the twin towers ventures somewhat deeper into speculation. Mentioning William Rodriguez sets off alarms with me, because there is no way (that I know of) to corroborate his assertion that explosions occurred prior to the plane hitting the building, which makes this speculative material. It is also speculative to consider that such explosions might have been planned, instead of (for example) an exploding fuel-air mixture in the elevator shafts.
I agree that all three buildings, and every other aspect of the 9/11 matter needs to be fully investigated. I just advise caution in bringing up matters like the twin towers unless very sound and verifiably accurate reasons are given for doing so.
Investigating Building 7 should be a starting point, but it should not (and won't) be the end.
PeacefulWarrior wrote
" This will cut off their attempt to isolate our queen "WTC7" and foil the limited hangout checkmate plan"
How did you find out about this plan? And what is it exactly? Who is "their"?
This thread has a chessboard analogy going
with many people suspicious of a limited hangout tactic etc. My analogy is about WTC7 being our most valuable piece on the board (queen) and to protect it by linking it with demolitions of the twin towers. After all the A&E people believe all the buildings were brought down with explosives. Thus before WTC7 can be isolated as part of a limited hangout aka a national security event, we could thwart the potential intention etc.
Regarding who they are: Simply the evil bastards who planned 911 and the cover-up. Sorry this is a strategy comment not an arrest warrant at this time.
Many people
seem to be unable to understand that WTC 7 is their queen, and if it falls, the road clears to the king. Their excuses for it falling don't matter. They might have two towers left, but they are weak.
Moreover, we have incontrovertible evidence they cheated.
Just to fully drive home the analogy
GZA - Queens Gambit
GZA - Exploitation Of Mistakes
Many suspects, many possible motives
Just kept coming with unstoppable explosives
...
Patriotic hustlers that kill for presidents
Conceal the truth, but can't hide the evidence
GZA - Destruction Of A Guard
Yes to more GZA Lyrics
SnowCrash you are to much! :) Liquid Swords in one of my favorite albums ever.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this,
yes the two towers leaves us our castles (rooks) just to round out the analogy .
Beware the gates as they are swung open ...
To witness the truth emerge from its slumber and break free of the shackles that have been laid upon it and think of the awesome power that is about to be released makes me tremble.
I would not celebrate though, for much of my trembling comes from knowing that the enemies of the truth are not going to go away quietly. We need to pick-up this sword and use it before the cretins have a chance to fully react. Whatever we've been doing we have to double our actions. We have to take the fight to them now and not let-up.
Then perhaps I can tremble with joy when we witness justice being done, and envision the world that we will inherit when the truth will have buried these cretins.
God I pray I live long enough to see this come true. And I thank you for allowing me to get this far, and grant me the strength to do more so.
good
comment
Let us not forget
The obvious explosive demo of the twin towers as the main symbol of 911.
In the case of the north tower, if you take the time difference between absolute free fall and the actual timed destruction (about 3 seconds) and then amortize that over 95 floors, what you end up with is a "collapse" or descent rate, indestinguishable, from FREE FALL, and this is absolutely impossible. It violates the three laws of motion!
The twin towers, because of their sheer height, lend themselves perfectly to this argument.
Absent the use of explosives, the official story about a progresive global collapse amounts to what I refer to as "the foot of God hypothesis" (forgive me Lord I'm just trying to illustrate something obvious here).
It's flat out ABSURD.
Yes, building 7 is strong proof because it wasn't hit by a plane, but so too are the TWIN TOWERS, because of their height and the time of destruction relative to absolute free fall.
WHEN will people GET THIS..?!!!
And when will the physics profs or teachers, even grade 10 physics teachers LATCH ONTO THIS?!!!
I just don't get that... I cannot understand it. It doesn't make any sense, given the utter simplicity, and the GAP in NIST's logic, and apriori ASSUMPTION, along with their unwillingness to explain what happened AFTER the hypothetical point of "collapse initiation" was reached.
It's a SIMPLE THOUGHT EXPERIMENT, so why must we focus on building 7, to the exclusion of, the Twin Towers? Why? What are we afraid of, the fake causal mechanism of the plane impacts, is that it?
Help me to understand. Thank you.
I can only speak for myself
I can only speak for myself (in fact, you probably shouldn't ask posters here to speak on behalf of countless strangers), but I absolutely believe that Building 7 is the keystone piece of evidence that 9/11 was an inside job. Absolutely and without equivocation.
The main reason is because when I personally first saw the video (through PrisonPlanet.com back in 2006), I went from somebody who never seriously doubted the government to somebody who absolutely knew it was an inside job. That 180-degree shift happened in the 9 seconds in which I watched the video. What mostly struck me about the building was the speed and symmetry of its collapse....but I was almost as much struck by the fact that I had never even heard of it once! This meant that the media was covering it up. Like Michael Crichton said, if you're covering something up, then that means that you've got something to hide. A few months later, the hilarious BBC video came out, and that further soldified things.
I absolutely know for a fact that I'm not alone in being "woken up" through Building 7. When Niels Harrit talks about his personal feelings, he expresses the same sentiment. I once asked my girlfriend what she thought the most crucial piece of evidence for inside job was, and she instantly said Building 7. I've shown the video to tons of people and it always strikes them much more.
On the level of physics, I think that people can find enough rationalizations for the collapse of 1 and 2 that they can buy the idea that jet fuel/pile driver/plane impact, all in conjunction, were enough to bring it down. Don't get me wrong, I definitely believe that most people subconsciously sense that something is wrong with 1 and 2, but it's at least vaguely plausible....kind of like an action movie that doesn't make sense when you think hard about it, but it's realistic enough to make you suspend disbelief for a few hours. Conversely, there is absolutely NO explanation for Building 7 that makes even the flimsiest sense. Anybody who's seen Building 7 and says anything besides controlled demolition is wantonly, willfully lying to themselves.
So, although I absolutely believe that the evidence for controlled demolition in 1 and 2 is rock solid, I think that Building 7 is even more solid still, and the fact that it's been so forcefully covered up immediately demonstrates to people that there's a lot of things that CNN/Fox/ABC/CBS, etc. never told them about.
My concern is that if the MSM just sticks with WTC7
and the public becomes aware of just the WTC7 situation. If the limited hangout position is taken that WTC7 was a national security event and is different to WTC's 1&2, without being able to connect the dots the public will buy this as an end of story to the "inside job" scenario. No further investigation will be made and the public masses will continue to buy the planes destroyed the towers lie. This limited truth position could be spread out over another 5-10 years and the public will be ready to accept and forget. We as a nation have done it numerous times before. The JFK, RFK,MLK, Murrah Building, Waco, Watergate, Iran Contra and theGulf of Tonkin stories all have lots of additional facts that make the official stories impossible but what happens? Nothing we just move on. So if we know that all the towers were demos why not say so now and keep saying it while we have people re-thinking the situation. Let's not be afraid of the truth, tell the whole story. Link A&E to all three towers before they can trap the truth into the WTC7 box.
Precisely
Building 7, to the exclusion of, the Twin Towers destruction, is an error on our part, big time. We have all the evidence we need and can show, that the same thing applies to the twin towers regardless of whatever or not they were hit by planes as the fake causal mechanism for their destruction about an hour later.
Building 7's Demolition Convinces in the Blink of an Eye...
...more like 7 seconds.
Then the other thousands of facts, contradictions, obfuscation, lies, deceits, can enter through the
chinks in the psychological armor.
WTC I and II -in less than a blink of an eye:
Though it was 7 that got me to open my eyes in 2005, I was astonished all over again when Jesse Ventura in his recent interview -- with who was it? Stephanopolos? -- whipped from his pocket a photo of one of the towers in mid "collapse" and held it up to the camera and asked (something like): "Is this a building falling down or exploding? You tell me!"
Truth will be seen only when the OCT mantra, like a wall preventing a sight line, is shocked out of place by the visual truth. I almost slapped my forehead at the simplicity and elegance and force of that image and that question.
Next step: Molten Metal
I don't know about the rest of you, but I will emphasize molten metal next in the happy event that WTC7 truth becomes acknowledged. Something people can see with their own eyes. WTC7 Truth ought to help our credibility by that point.
I think we should all reserve judgement until....
we see the next 'episode' where they apportion blame..
Fantastic breakthrough
Wow! So that's what it looks like when a mainstream media journalist eats their words. The longer I watch 9/11 Truth unfold the more I realise that many journalists are identical to the dummies I know - they don't look at the evidence because they've been brainwashed by the phrase "conspiracy theory". I truly believe that the Australian "journalists" who have recently spoken out against Kevin Bracken are not trying to cover up anything, they just have no idea. If they had looked at the compelling evidence they would either join 9/11 Truth or shut their mouths and hide under a rock.
I'm extremely grateful to Geraldo for opening his mind to the evidence - whatever the motivation of Fox News. If their motivation is to just focus on WTC7 and ignore the Twin Towers, good luck with that.
Interview with Bob McIlwaine on The Reality Report with Gary Franchi where Bob discusses how Geraldo saw the Building What? advertisement and was "astounded":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W12Tt6qZnNU
Russia Today
Russia Today has done alot of reporting on 9/11. Perhaps they could spin this Geraldo story abit extra and push this further.
For first time the questions are offcially mentioned inside USA mainstream media. It should be a pretty huge thing for Russia Today to focus on.
vid: @5:10 WTC7 explosion when WTC1 and WTC2 were still standing
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I'm growing tired
of the repeated below-the-belt attacks on Richard Gage by Screw Loose Change.
So, I figure, it's time to make fun of Screw Loose Change and Pat Curley. When Bob McIlvaine and Tony Szamboti appeared on Geraldo's show on Fox News, Pat got so frustrated he mistyped his first blog entry and accidentally posted it, perhaps for the first time ever.
Everybody laugh at Pat "Al Capoone" Curley. LOL.
Pat "Al Capoone" Curley [photo courtesy of Phoenix Times]
Did it suck to see these men on the one TV "news" network that normally aligns with your fringe conservative views, Pat?