405 Bannering with Dean Haglund from "X-Files" and "The Lone Gunman"
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Dean Haglund (X-Files and The Lone Gunman) drops by to visit WACLA during our bannering of one of the busiest freeways in the country, the 405. Dean is one of the most outspoken movie and television celebrities when it comes to 9-11 Truth and we were all honored to have him spend time out of his day with us while we bannered roughly 25,000 commuters during rush hour in Los Angeles with our 9-11 Truth messages.
We got such overwhelming warm responses from the travelers on both the freeway below and the road crossing the bridge. Officers in a passing police squad car honked enthusiastically and waved to us! We spent three hours holding those banners, and we enjoyed every minute.
By the time we were done, the puffy clouds from earlier in the day had been eradicated by massive non-stop aerosol spraying until all that remained was a disgusting haze and a constant replenishing of long white trails of chemicals. After taking down the banners at the end of the day, we remained on the bridge for ten minutes pointing up at the obvious pattern of chemical aerosol spray, and guess what... we got many honks from the cars on the freeway. Awareness of the chemtrail problem seems to be growing. That's good news.
Thanks for joining us Dean Haglund! We all enjoyed your visit. We also enjoyed the positive energy of all the wonderful souls that took time out of their day to reach out to thousands of people they do not know. Love to all.
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Is the lone gunmen pilot show online anywhere?
I can only find trailers. The complete episode used to be online.
That's why I bought it on DVD years ago
Because someday they'll turn off the Internet....
;-)
WACLA.. you guys rock!
Great work as always WACLA! Freeway bannering is real "bang for the buck"... lots of hits in a short period of time. We need more of this kind of thing.
Moderators note:
Seeing as how this wonderful blog was turned into a debate over chemtrails, it was demoted off the front page.
Please try to stay on topic.
[Edit: I fully acknowledge that chemtrails is a subtopic of the blog so your point is a valid one, cosmos. The discussion is free to continue ad infinitum on the blogs page where it won't detract from the primary focus of the site]
Thanks.
Just to be clear
Are you admonishing the commenters? It was the blog itself that introduced the topic.
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
What's happening Cosmos?
Remember the day we had the West Coast Convergence in San Francisco, and everybody pointed at the chemtrails that started with one, but eventually filled the sky?
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
Hey Bruno
I can't say I totally remember that (lots going on that day) but regardless I've seen similar phenomena many times. I really don't know enough about it to speculate, though. And I do agree that the topic should be kept away from our 9/11 work for pretty much all the reasons that have been well stated by others here. I know this can present a particular challenge to the We Are Change groups, as WAC is not a single issue group per se. It seems that in general WACLA does a very good job of keeping the focus on 9/11 and I hope that continues. I think the involved off-topic debate on this blog is a good demonstration of the distraction that the injection of other topics (especially controversial or speculative ones) can bring to our work.
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
Uncomfortable
I don't know if I'm being too critical or negative, but I'm really uncomfortable with this whole chemtrail topic. I feel this is precisely the kind of subject that gives an excuse to call us cooks or tinfoil hats...
What has convinced me a long time ago about 9/11 Truth is the strong evidence, both scientific and factual (for example the complete 9/11 timeline).
The whole chemtrail thing is based on what exactly?
I don't understand why We Are Change are going into those areas. It's not helping the 9/11 cause.
That being said I really admire the dedication they have to demonstrate and to create those big banners!
AMEN
Thanks!
________________________
The key to successful truth actions lies in not insulting your target audience or promoting speculation as hard fact.
Ditto!!
I really appreciate what you guys are doing..but PLEASE stick with 9/11 and false flag terror......As soon as chemtrails, HARP, climate change comes up , etc...people back off. I can tell you ...as a PRO CHOICE progressive women who supports 9/11 Truth, though I get what Alex Jones is trying to tell us, his reference to abortion ( as in anti... not a women's right to choose) is a turn off for me.
not my experience
"As soon as chemtrails, HARP, climate change comes up , etc...people back off. I can tell you"
This is not my experience at all.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU
but the chemtrail thing is obvious to me. So obvious that it seems a lot like the mentality that allows people not to see that 9/11 was an inside job..
All you have to do is go out in almost any city in any NATO country and there they are. Hugely obvious in giant X's grids and other patterns.
Who is doing this? The military? NATO? A secret government?
That it is being so effectively covered-up by the media makes it seem very like 9/11. The people are brainwashed into believing that what they see with their own eyes doesn't exist.
I hear more and more people talking about them every day. And they want answers. I don't know if it matters whether we keep the two issues "separate"....in a sense they are the same.
A controlled media, a lack of accountability, and a population hypnotized and unable to even trust their own eyes and perceptions.
When people do wake up...someone will have a whole lot of splaining to do....
The chemtrail grids are a fact. If you travel to Asia or Russian you will not see them. They are in Japan, however,. But not in Israel.
I don't want to sound
I don't want to sound paranoid, but this could be a way to discredit the whole movement from inside.
To me, there' s no logic to go into so many topics when we have such a strong case with 9/11.
Richard Gage is such a good example of what we all should do. Repeat the same message over and over again to spread it in the population and avoid speculations and anything that could make you vulnerable to critics.
inconsiderate
There was a guy in my town who would table at the airport and have two large displays, one about 9/11 and the other about "chemtrails." When I tried to explain to him that it's inappropriate for him to so publicly associate the 9/11 Truth movement with chemtrails, he scoffed and told me to set up my own table.
Folks, this is why I hate the pseudo-rebel individualist mentality in much of this movement. It's so bad in my town, that I can no longer feel sane and deal with it. It almost feels like it part of a counter intelligence operation.
I don't know how to deal with the problem, but I do know that these people are selfish and nconsiderate, or worse.
See, the last word of your
See, the last word of your comment is what bothers me the most. What if indeed this is the worse case scenario? Although I don't question the majority of We Are Change's loyalty, I do fear that this can lead to some form of "poisoning the well". If there are people watching the movement, if there are some high rank people in the Obama administration who favor some kind of infiltration and neutralization of the movement, should we be more vigilant with this kind of topic?
To me, as soon as a topic uses more "I believe that..." than solid evidence, it's not worth talking about it publicly. Even more so when we have such a strong case with 9/11.
This chemtrail topic reminds me of no planers and space beams.
I've looked into the subject and never seen any credible explanations nor motives for those supposed chemtrails.
Please guys, let's be vigilant.
take the blinders off
"I've looked into the subject and never seen any credible explanations nor motives for those supposed chemtrails."
Sounds like so many people who I first talked to about 9-11 Truth a few years back ;)
Start watching the sky. Someone told me about chemtrails about 2.5 years ago and I thought they were a bit loony. Then someone else mentioned them, so I started watching the sky, and it didn't take me long to determine for myself that chemtrails are definitely real. My suggestion is that when you see a long white line appear in the sky, stop what you are doing, sit back, relax, and watch what happens to that line. Watch how it spreads out in a number of different ways, until it is no longer recognized as a white line from a jet, but rather takes on the semblance of a cloud.
I am willing to bet that while you watch that transformation, you will see more white lines appear in the sky, and they too will transform into a semblance of a cloud.
Test your own reaction to this information, and challenge yourself just as you urge those you talk to about 9-11 Truth to do the same with that particular subject.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
Well, up here, in Canada, I
Well, up here, in Canada, I haven't seen once that phenomenon, even if 911 truth Montreal's website talk about it and have videos that are anything but convincing. Frankly, when I saw this, it took away my intent to support them. Seriously. And believe me, in Quebec, the majority of people I talk to about 9/11 are very open minded and favorable to our views despite all of the bad press about 9/11 truth, but chemtrails? Forget about it.
See, I don't want you to bet on what I will see in the sky, I want you to provide me with solid evidence, testimonies, motives.
The argument about being open minded was used by Jim Fetzer when he was talking about no planers and space beams. Be careful. I'm open minded, but all I say, is that mixing such an important topic as 9/11 with a speculative subject is dangerous to the whole movement.
Finally, when you say that I sound like so many people who you first talked to about 9-11 Truth a few years back , I'm not sure this is an acceptable argument. Even when you have strong evidence, like, for instance the lies about Irak's WMDs, there are still people who will remain convinced that their president told the truth. Its blind patriotism. David Ray Griffith calls it the religious patriotism. But still, on september 11 2001 there were many huge anomalies like the absence of response from the US Air Force, the first 3 steel frame buildings that fell (so fast) because of fires, and so many other big problems with the official story. We're comparing orange and apples....
I won't argue about it anymore anyways. I was only expressing my opinion, which I rarely do here.
Yup, those are exactly what
Yup, those are exactly what I was talking about. It is precisely what pushed me away from Montreal 911 truth. The title by itself is pure speculation. Aerosol? Really? What is that statement based on?
To me, this is a serious threat to the whole effort of the 9/11 truth movement.
see below
see comment further on in this thread for the science
as for "To me, this is a serious threat to the whole effort of the 9/11 truth movement" - you have got to be kidding. Get out and talk to the people a little bit more Lys.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
Covering the sky?
I don't have an opinion about chemtrails.
I don't think airplanes normally cover the sky with much anything, apart from narrow trails that are fairly soon dispersed. They certainly wouldn't - or shouldn't - almost overcast the entire sky. Change it from blue into cloudy grey. At least I haven't seen that in Finland - ever. I mean, if that happened, there would be a LOT of complaints and stuff.
Chemtrails in Finland
Chemtrails covering the sky in Finland. Look at the closeups - when you look close up, you can see obvious aerosol spraying... in broad daylight, but the average viewer dismisses it as 'contrails'.
Look for the Pyramid with the capstone at the end of the vid. Craziness.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
aerosol
"Aerosol? Really? What is that statement based on?" - Le Lys
It's based on the definition of aerosol. Not sure what the issue is with that. If that's why you pushed yourself away from Montreal 911 Truth, I think that's just silly.
aer·o·sol [air-uh-sawl, -sol]
–noun
1. Physical Chemistry. a system of colloidal particles dispersed in a gas; smoke or fog.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
Chemtrails
Sorry to make you feel uncomfortable. Chemtrails are a real issue, and they are being sprayed at a massive scale this year - more than I have ever seen. This is a major health issue that is happening on a global scale right now.
Further research - http://www.chemtrails911.com/intro_to_chem.htm
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
I ran an air quality test for aluminum...& found aluminum.
Personally, I do not bring up chemtrails when promoting 9/11 Truth.
But I do not have a problem with the subject being brought up in the proper context. WACLA brings up the chemtrails in context with their own group's observations, not as a targeted dissemination to the broad green public about 9/11 Truth. Occasionally, our group members will discuss chemtrails among ourselves, because sometimes the chemtrails are prolific in the Dallas area and will ruin a beautiful, sunny day. These conversations are only on occasion, and just between ourselves. Typically, it is group member to group member talking about how bad the chemtrails were that week... ...and these chemtrail internal conversations do not come up that often. However, our group does not mix the message to new people. WACLA does not seem to mix the message to new people.
Chemtrails are pretty easy to spot when a person looks up and just observes. When I was younger (in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's), there were NO chemtrails. These folks who think that chemtrails are contrails must not have been around in the 50's or 60's and actually observed the sky. NEVER did contrails during that 50's & 60's & 70's era expand and mask the sky, nor were they ever layed out in checkerboard fashion.
I first-hand found aluminum from chemtrails.
A few years ago in east Texas, I took air samples before and during a chemtrail spraying. I was testing for aluminum. It definitely showed positive bigtime for aluminum during the chemtrail spraying (but no aluminum prior to the spraying). I was taking a bunch of courses for an Environmental Science degree at the time and wrote this up for a class project, complete with photos. The Barium test would be too expensive for me to perform, so I did not perform it. However, there was some 'wildcard' other substance in my air samples.
I took the samples about 100 miles west of this news video on the subject. This News Report lab test was taken near Shreveport, LA and found Barium and Aluminum. The News gives a good overview on the subject. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okB-489l6MI
[Sidenote: L3 Communications Greenville, TX is nearby which flies out big planes. I asked a lady if she knew anything about these. Her husband (security clearance) worked for L3 riding in the back of the planes with the computers. She had this funny worried look as a response and said she knew nothing.]
you are so right!
Now more than ever....I recently took a trip to a very small remote island in the carribean. I was there for 10 days.
I saw one chemtrail....a kind of tester. Short and not repeated throughout the sky...
I was sick with shock and outrage when the plane touched down in Atlanta....they were just plastering the place and not even pretending to make it appear like "normal" air traffic.
It was parallel lines that were traced and retraced and then crossed at an angle. They are focusing on population centers.....
hmmmm wonder why?
Missed the point
The issue is not whether chemtrails are real or not. I personally have not seen solid scientific evidence suggesting that it is a real phenomenon. But, again, this is not the point. The point is that there is by no means consensus, or anything approaching it, within the 9/11 Truth community on the alleged phenomenon of chemtrails. Therefore, to associate the subject so closely with the 9/11 Truth movement is just plain inconsiderate toward those of us who do not accept it as a reality.
Even if I personally were to accept chemtrails as a reality, I would not be so presumptuous as to inject this concern into my public 9/11 activities. The movement is at a precarious crossroads, I believe, and to complicate the task of those who have been working tirelessly to anchor alternative 9/11 theories in a solid scientific foundation by introducing an unrelated, highly controversial subject is imprudent, to put it mildly.
I can agree with that
I can agree with not bringing up chemtrails during a 9-11 Truth outreach action, just like I don't bring up 9-11 truth when I talk about chemtrails or the global warming hoax or many other topics. I do not want to dilute any of those messages. A living being can only take so much 'truth' at any one time. They may find it easy, and thus a relief, to reject all your important messages if they can pin you as a 'conspiracy theorist' who thinks everything is a conspiracy. Whether or not everything is indeed a conspiracy is beside the point. It's a matter of getting people to go down the rabbit hole. It's too easy to call someone crazy when they tell you more than you can handle at any one time.
I personally believe that 9-11 Truth is the greatest portal into truth, but I also recognize that chemtrails are an immediate, urgent concern because we are being bombarded with them.
Just so you know, we didn't have a chemtrail awareness banner up at all that day (we don't even have such a banner). The 9-11 Truth message to our audience was very well controlled and on point, but everybody that attended this event was very aware of the massive aerosol spraying that was going on over our heads.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
me too
people just can't take in all that bad news in one bite. I have to admit I did not "see" chemtrails until I researched 9/11.
After that, chemtrails seemed entirely possible, if not likely. It took me a lot longer, though, to admit it to myself.
Losing the sky is in some ways much much worse than seeing the WTC destroyed and three thousand dead. With chemtrails we are tallking about a truly massive attack on the bioshere....almost unbelievable...unless of course if you realize the truth about state sponsored terror.
I really respect your work
I really respect your work about 9/11, guys.
But here's what I think.
9/11 is already a hard subject to speak about with the population who knows nothing about it. If you combine another topic which is less documented, but very difficult to accept for regular folks, I think you really diminish the chances you will absolutely convince people about anything.
I've read through your website on the subject and, although I admit I'm not refusing the possibility that it can be true, I have to say it's not as strong as the 9/11 case. So why trying to fight on both fronts?
Don't you think 9/11 is much bigger in terms of repercussions? Don't you think that, once the truth will be widely known and accepted by the majority, then, topics like HAARP and chemtrails will be much easier to research and bring to the public?
Honestly, and without any kind of sarcasm, I think that HAARP and chemtrails have the same status in my mind than UFOs. There are interesting testimonies, documents, but nothing solid like 9/11. To me, those subjects are still in the speculation domain, and I've looked into them, because I have an open mind. 9/11 was a crime that had a purpose. And we are still living the direct result of this crime. People gained from it the day it happened. We have motives, scientific evidence, testimonies, whistleblowers, we have historical examples of false flag terror, we have many huge inconsistencies in the official story, and tons of experts in different fields who all say the story just doesn't add up.
I really appreciate WAC's involvement in 9/11 truth. It warms my heart to see young militants trying to make a difference and being so passionate. It's inspiring. But to me, 9/11 is an urgent matter, and as soon as we go into other topics we diminish our chances to achieve our goal.
It's my humble opinion.
"young militants" ?
"young militants" ?
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
Yes, your efforts bring honks of relief
from folks who think they are the only ones who know about 911 and plant seeds in those who don't.
The promotion of marginal material is most counter-productive.
The subject of "chemtrails" has lots of unwelcome associations... even if there there is some element of reality to it; Either way, it is largely speculative.
The powers-that-be are desperately trying to derail the 9/11 Truth Express in case the mainstream jumps on board wholesale. If that happens, the perpetrators are in major trouble; the only thing standing between them and death row, is the mainstream media.
One of the most effective ways of diluting, or discrediting 9/11 Truth as regards mainstream acceptance, is by promoting marginal subjects alongside, or within 9/11 Truth groups...subjects which are famous for having "weird and wacky associations, or simply being unproven or unprovable by the normal scientific method. The paranormal fare of UFOs, aliens, ghosts, cryptozoological entities, psychic phenomena etc. etc. certainly qualify as an ultra-marginalized set of subjects, the staple of skeptics worldwide, which could be used to discredit 9/11 Truth.
On a slightly more down to earth, but still with a large "roll eyes", or "giggle-factor" element within mainstream awareness, would be that other marginalized group of phenomena which include crop circles, and "chemtrails", as two examples.
There are some people out there who look up into the sky, and refer to *any* airplane condensation trail as being a "chem trail"(!). Con(densation) trails (aka "contrails") have been around since commercial air travel started, shortly soon after WWII, and are only visible because the exhaust from jet engines contains water vapor, which condenses into water droplets (which tend to freeze into ice crystals at 30-40,000 feet altitude). What we are seeing here in those white streaks across the sky, is like "artificial cirrus clouds", consisting of ice crystals. These have a high refraction index and thus are highly visible in the clear sunlight of the upper atmosphere. Sometimes, contrails "hang around" for awhile, while on other occasions they disappear as soon as they form.. one determining factor here is the relative humidity of the atmosphere through which the airplane is travelinIn other words, for example, in the presence of an upper level anticyclone, where there is subsiding, dry air at those levels in the atmosphere airplane contrails will tend to disappear relatively quickly.
Visible contrails popularly referred to as "chemtrails" tend to occur in the upper atmosphere, some 6 miles or more above the Earth's surface. If these contrails are seeded with "chemicals", what is the purpose? Who is carrying out peer reviewed analyses on these condensation trails 6 miles up? Who is getting samples of the "trails", and how?What kind of airplanes are emitting these alleged chemicals? Who is paying for this? Who benefits? How is this program controlled and monitored, and who are in the study groups? If these alleged chemicals are for nefarious purposes (ie for population control or whatever), then why deploy into the atmosphere 6 miles up, where the higher UV content of sunlight at such altitudes is going to cause many complex chemical substances to decompose or break down, and thus have little chance of affecting people at the surface.
If chemicals *are* being seeded into the atmosphere for dubious purposes, then common sense infers that such a program would be carried out over urban areas (higher population density), and dispensed in the lowest layers of the atmosphere(for a greater degree of control and effect).... in which case, it is more likely that such discharges would be invisible, in other words, no "chemtrails" would be apparent. But... upper air contrails are seen equally over sparsely populated regions, and also out over the open oceans where there no people at all...
The Chemtrail theory, as it has been popularly promoted, makes little sense. I have read about anomalous biological agents being analyzed in air samples,.... but there is no way of proving responsibility or motivation, unless caught in the act.
The main message I am concerned with here, is to resist digressions, and red herrings and other dubious distractions which can dilute or derail the 9/11 Truth issue, especially material which can be used to frame the 9/11 Truth movement as being everything from the plain "unscientific" to the "downright preposterous". So, on that note, and in the knowledge that groups do get infiltrated by those allegedly with an interest in "national security and intelligence", the Peace Movement being a prime example of such, let's keep 9/11 Truth solid and to the point. We're dealing with the worst crime every committed on American soil, involving the premeditated mass murder of 3000 people and the destruction of several city blocks in Lower Manhattan. Lets leave the ghostbusting to the ghostbusters and the New Age stuff to the New Agers. 9/11 does not belong there.
I am not dissing anyone here. However, such marginal material must *NEVER* be exploited in the context of 9/11. Forget chemtrails, leave out the "no-planes theory", abandon the "Tesla scalar beam weapon" fantasy stuff.. all it does is cause 99% of people to roll their eyes and start laughing. 9/11 Truth needs those 99% of people far more than the 1% who acknowledge the "far out" fodder of the X-Files.
Alleluia! I wish I could
Alleluia! I wish I could write in english that well, but I'm still learning. You have expressed my opinion point by point!
Thank you so much!
Well said bloggulator....
"The main message I am concerned with here, is to resist digressions, and red herrings and other dubious distractions which can dilute or derail the 9/11 Truth issue, especially material which can be used to frame the 9/11 Truth movement as being everything from the plain "unscientific" to the "downright preposterous".
Perhaps we can agree to stick to 9/11 Truth (ends war) during demonstrations and interviews... If we want to explore other concerns within select friendships/settings...that's another matter....Also, I am not so sure I would want to be called "militant" in the growing repressive environment....even if it is meant to be a compliment.
Let me just say though...WACLA ROCKS!!! Thank you!
It's hard to forget chemtrails when they are filling the sky,
It's hard to forget chemtrails when they are filling the sky, horizon to horizon. I've never seen a crop circle with my own eyes. In fact I did not see anything that happened on 9-11 with my own eyes, but I see massive aerosol spraying almost every day with my own eyes, and I would hardly call that speculative.
I agree that messages should not be mixed. I do not dilute my message about chemtrails with any talk about 9-11 Truth and vice versa, unless it's obvious that my audience is open for both messages at the same time. A YouTube video that touches on the obvious is hardly a threat to the momentum of the 9-11 Truth movement.
What are contrails? As a jet flies, moisture is released from the jet engines. If the jet is high enough in the sky where the humidity is generally low (very little moisture), then the moisture released from the engines of the jet immediately forms ice crystals because of the cold dry air. That is the trail that forms behind the jet. Like seeing your breath on a cold day in winter.
Contrails never last more than a few seconds because water is a heat conductor, so it absorbs the heat of all the air around it, and the heat of the sun. That's why when you see a contrail behind a jet, it disappears as quickly as it appears, and the trail stays the same length the entire time as the jet flies overhead because it is constantly being replenished as fast as it disappears.
You will never see a contrail appear among clouds because clouds form in high humidity, generally at low altitudes. Clouds are a direct result of high humidity. Contrails form in low humidity, and dissipate just as quickly. When you do see those long white trails behind jets (not passenger jets) among the clouds, then you are witnessing aerosol spraying and not condensation trails. It's scientific fact.
If the trail behind the jet is thick and/or the trail persists even as the jet has flown out of sight, then what you see is not a contrail. It is not water vapor, but rather must consist of some other particulates. Most people call them 'chemtrails', chem being short for chemical.
After WWII, England admitted to spraying the population with all kinds of elements as experiments. In the '50s, the CIA used car exhaust, and subway ventilation systems to spray elements in NYC as experiments.
Watch the sky.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
THANKS! BRUNO
for all you do. And thanks also for your openness and honesty about broaching this taboo subject. It needs to be taken out of the catagory of "questionable" subjects. It is about as questionable as the free fall collapse of Building 7.
But in the meantime, I am comfortable with not mixing these conversations. When I talk about 9/11 I try to stay focused on the facts and the evidence. One thing at a time.
People will look into one issue if you provide them with an entry into it that is manageable such as Building 7 or the existence of nanothermite residue in the dust...
When you jump right into large scale attacks on populations which is what chemtrails seem to be to me....well then you will lose most of your audience. But in any case, I have to disagree with the folks who still view chemtrails as a "marginal" topic.
Just how marginal can the air you breath every minute of every day really be???
This is the breath of life. They are messing with it whoever THEY are.
So I guess that ever since I
So I guess that ever since I was a child I've seen chemtrails, because I don't remember having seen any trails that lasted only seconds. Maybe it has to do with our cold weather?
Look. This is highly technical. I won't try to prove anything because I'm no expert on weather nor aviation. But I'm no architect nor engineer either but when I listen to AE911 truth I understand what they explain and I can see clearly the solid facts that support their questions.
With chemtrails, I don't see any clear scientific based evidence that this is real. I don't see how this can be efficient in high altitude. I don't see why they would do such an evil thing in plain sight. I have so many unanswered questions about this phenomenon that I just can't accept that people mix this with 9/11 truth. To me it's dangerous and it gives our detractors massive arguments to discredit the messengers.
If I was the only one thinking this topic is damaging the 9/11 truth movement I'd shut up, but look at the reaction from my first comment...
We Are Change should think about this.
By the way, I don't know what is the problem with the term "militant", but in french it means being involved in a cause. So I don't see where there is a problem. Anyways, you got the idea.
Not sure how hold you are.
"So I guess that ever since I was a child I've seen chemtrails, because I don't remember having seen any trails that lasted only seconds."
I grew up in the '70s and '80s and I remember clearly looking up and seeing relatively short thin lines behind the jets very high in the sky. Now I see long thick lines that sometimes turn off, then turn on again, at all altitudes in the sky, when at the exact same time I will see a jet with absolutely no trail behind it at all in the same sky.
"I don't see why they would do such an evil thing in plain sight."
This is the reason you give for not believing it? They did 9-11 in plain sight, and that's the reason many people won't believe the 9-11 Truth movement.
My suggestion to everyone is that you watch the sky every chance you get until you can judge easily for yourself. You will notice all kinds of patterns like multiple parallel lines, tic tac toe, DNA (two jets flying parallel, one a slight distance behind the other, and they criss cross each other's path again and again!) and more. On more than one occasion I've even seem them spray a circle.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
Encyclopædia Britannica
"streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear, cold, humid air. It forms upon condensation of the water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud. On rare occasions, when the air is nearly saturated with water vapour, air circulation at the wing tips of an airplane may cause sufficient pressure and temperature reductions to cause cloud streamers to form."
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/623212/vapour-trail
disinformation
Find the Encyclopædia Britannica from 20 years ago and tell me what it says. The photo they use in the entry you linked to is not a contrail. Funny thing is they don't even have an entry for "contrail". The entry you found is for "vapour trail".
Looking in that book for truthful information is like asking the Mainstream Media what happened on 9-11.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
Sorry, this in nonsense. A
Sorry, this in nonsense. A vapor trail IS a contrail. Different names for the same phenomenon.
The fact that I am now taking my time to debunk the "chemtrail" theory so that everyone knows that not all 9/11 TP&J activists accept it is a demonstration of why it's inappropriate to bring the issue of chemtrails into a 9/11 blog.
I'm an airline pilot. Here are the facts: contrails (or vapor trials) are formed by the rapid expansion of the air exiting the turbine stage of the engines. As the air rapidly expands, its temperature rapidly decreases. If it gets colder than the due point of the surrounding air mass, it will result in a visible contrail (aka vapor trial).
1) Contrails today tend to be thicker than they were 30 years ago because of the change in engine technology. Today's modern airliners are powered by big "fanjets" as opposed to plain old "turbojets." Fanjets have a much wider diameter than turbojets. Therefore, their resulting contrails are thicker.
2) Most cities have land-based navigation aids. It's not unusual to see all kinds of interesting patterns above these nav-aids because it's where aircraft flight paths converge. Sometimes, holding patters are conducted right above these nav-aids. These would tend to make interesting patterns.
3) Commercial jet traffic has increased on average of 5% every year for the past 30 years. That means that there are more than three times as many airliners criss-crossing the sky today than there were 30 years ago, yielding a corresponding increase in contrails. Today, there are about 30,000 commercial flights operating over the U. S. per day.
4) I've seen first hand, many times, the contrails left my my company's airplanes. Some of them last a long time and the winds aloft spread them out, particularly if the winds are perpendicular to the trials. Now are you suggesting that my company is in on the conspiracy? Or maybe it's our fuel company?
Someone please point me to a peer-reviewed study with results that can be replicated that proves the existence of these so-called chemtrails. And please spare me the anecdotal accounts of people looking up in the sky marveling at the number and appearance of these trails. That is far from a scientific standard.
Where's the science?
"As the air rapidly expands, its temperature rapidly decreases. If it gets colder than the due point of the surrounding air mass, it will result in a visible contrail (aka vapor trial)."
So you are saying that contrails form exclusively based on temperature relative to surrounding air mass? Where's the science? Your definition makes absolutely no sense at all. Basically you are saying it doesn't matter what the temperature is, whether it is 200° or -200°. You are saying that what matters is how the temperature (no matter how hot or cold) of the rapidly expanding air exiting the turbine stage of the engines, relates to "the due point of the surrounding air mass"? What the heck are you talking about?
What do you mean by rapidly expanding air?
Can you tell me in your definition of contrails where you mention how humidity affects the formation of contrails? By leaving out humidity all together, are you suggesting that humidity has nothing to do with the formation of contrails?
Where is the science in your 'debunking'? Oh yeah, don't forget to tell everyone that Building 7 'collapsed' due to 'thermal expansion'. LOL Sorry, I couldn't resist.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
Dew Point
Dew point was misspelled. It's calculated using temp and relative humidity.
Also, at the top of the britannica page I referenced, it says "also called Condensation Trail, or Contrail"
Time to let it go...
Thank you. Yes, of course,
Thank you. Yes, of course, "dew point" was misspelled. That's what happens when you're in a rush.
I am saying that all visible moisture, whether we're talking about fog, clouds or condensation trails is the result of the air mass reaching its dew point. In aviation, we speak of a temperature-dew point spread at airports. The smaller the spread, the more likely fog will form as the air continues to cool. If the temp.-dew point spread is zero, there will be fog. It's another way of describing how much moisture is in the air relative to the temperature.
The reason you can sometimes see the little swirling vortexes coming off wing tips is because the air pressure under the wing is greater than the air pressure over the wing. Higher pressure seeks lower pressure. As the lower pressure under the wing sweeps up and around the wing tip, it also rapidly loses pressure, which causes a rapid decrease in temperature. If that decreased temperature is at, or below, the ambient air's dew point, the moisture in the vortexes becomes visible.
A jet engine has four stages: intake, compression, combustion, and exhaust. The exhaust results in thrust. It is comprised of the byproducts of fuel combustion and lots of rapidly expanding air. This rapid expansion lowers its temperature rapidly and this causes vapor in the combustion to condense into visible moisture.
It is certainly possible that the significant increase of contrails has been effecting weather patters, but that's as far as I'll go.
Here's some science:
http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/wxwise/class/contrail.html
Now, what does this have to do with the current needs of the 9/11 Truth, Peace and Justice movement?
I guess fuel has barium and aluminum in it... & planes X cross
I'm tracking with Bruno.
Barium and aluminum from the skies?! Planes turning "off" and "on" their vapor trails at exact points while criss-crossing in perfect X checkerboard fashion and flying back and forth, repeatedly?! I have seen the aluminum first-hand (read my post earlier). I have watched deliberate patterns made in sections of the sky with the trails suddenly stopped, then again started, then stopped again after the plane turns to cross an X... ...and the plane flies to no destination, but back and around, over and over?!
Aluminum and barium are okay to have fall from the sky? My aluminum test was 100 miles from this news report... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okB-489l6MI
Planes fly around and around and around, criss-crossing into segmented patterns with no direct destination?
Spend some time watching how these trails are formed. Do an air quality test before and during. I think that you will find that this is not an ordinary flight from one destination to another.
Check out the
interesting discussion at this site:
http://contrailscience.com/history-channel-thats-impossible-weather-warfare-chemtrails/
"BARIUM products would turn jet exhaust GREEN. (Used in green fireworks.) It would also stop the gas turbine.
ALUMINUM products would turn jet exhaust WHITE AND CRACKLY. (Used in THERMITE.) ALUMINA would grind down the pumps and jets and blades of a gas turbine. (Used as an abrasive.)
MORGELLONS would be BURNT in a gas turbine flame – it would be just another fuel."
Jet fuel?
Do crop dusters spray from their engines? No, they have mechanisms to spray. These are not passenger jets with some extra ingredients in the fuel, that just sounds silly. These jets are tankers with spray mechanisms. Gotta research how many tankers Boeing sold last year. Someone told me recently that they sold 2000 tankers last year, but I have not confirmed this.
Difference between what a contrail looks like compared to a chemtrail.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
I don't know much about chemtrails
But I know a helluva lot more know now than I did a couple minutes ago.
If that doesn't convince you that there is something to this chemtrail thing then you are no different that 9/11 deniers.
Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance -- Albert Einstein.
I'm through discussing
I'm through discussing "chemtrails" on a 9/11 Truth (Peace and Justice) site.
I'm not pointing any fingers, but if anyone hasn't seen this short video about Cointelpro, it's a must:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QpDvNtoU4U
The 7:20 mark is particularly relevant. I think if we all remain respectful, disciplined, scientific and focussed, their efforts will continue to fail.
I know what I observed. Anyone can observe it.
I found aluminum in the air as a result of chemtrails. I even have pictures of my lab results & testing. I saw the criss cross, stop n go, around and around, X patterns of the planes. Those are direct observations of mine.
The science such as adiabatic processes (heat relatively is not lost nor gained in the closed atmospheric system) and the IFN qualities of aluminum or barium or other particulates makes sense to me. http://san.hufs.ac.kr/~gwlee/session8/ice.html
But what is certain is what I observed directly. Planes don't wonder around diddling nor do they normally give off substantial amounts of aluminum.
Very good, just need some clarification.
Please go into detail what you mean by 'rapidly expanding air'.
When the moisture condenses in the 'rapid expansion' because of the newly lowered temperature, what happens when the temperature is raised again as the 'expanded' air mixes in with the warmer 'unexpanded' air? Since air and water are both fast heat conductors, how quickly will the newly form condensed moisture dissipate into the warmer dry air that surrounds it?
Will a jet leave a 'contrail' in the middle of fog? If so, how?
Will a jet leave a 'contrail' in the middle of puffy clouds? If so, how?
How much of a drop in temperature does your 'rapidly expanding air' undergo?
If a jet has two engines, how does a 'contrail' cover the width of the entire wingspan?
In the conditions needed to form a contrail, how do those conditions change suddenly to enable the contrail to persist indefinitely? What causes a 'contrail' to 'persist', spreading out and joining other 'contrails' into a hazy cloud cover?
How is it possible for one jet to not have any sort of trail behind it, and a second plane has a long persistent thick trail behind it, at the exact same time, at the exact same altitude?
How is it possible for your alleged increase in 'contrails' to affect weather patterns?
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
Were chemtrails part of the 9/11 operation?
I didn't think so.
Please conduct this debate elsewhere or via email.
Thanks.
Chemtrails and 9-11
Apparently when ALL flights were grounded on 9-11 and thereafter, chemtrails still appeared over much of the nation. Anybody have photos or footage to support this?
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
dew point
turboglo, I still don't understand what dew point has to do with the formation of contrails. Could you help me understand the science behind that?
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
MSM
Looks like the main stream media is into promoting what you're saying:
http://contrailscience.com/history-channel-thats-impossible-weather-warfare-chemtrails/
So, is the MSM now ok with you? What's your response to the science offered by turboglo?
I'm 40. And during all of my
I'm 40. And during all of my childhood I was fascinated with airplanes. There were 2 airports near where I lived, plus, every day, at 5:00 there was a B-52 that took off from Plattsburg NY passing over us, with, they said at the time, a load of bombs in case of a Russian invasion.
I've seen many trails of different shapes and that lasted and evolved in many different ways.
Anyways, I wouldn't dare to base such a grave theory on my childhood memories! And there is NO reason for me to BELIEVE in anything of that nature. I don't BELIEVE in 9/11 Truth, I KNOW it's the truth we're promoting, because I have facts, scientific inquiries, testimonies that have not yet been contradicted by anything solid.
Belief has no place in this debate. It's all about evidence.
There is not enough evidence and I still don't understand why you insist so much on this topic on the WAC website. Alex Jones covers all of those issues, why aren't you focusing on 9/11 and concentrate on showing the population the evidence that it was a crime perpetrated by people from the inside? Wasn't it your mission at first?
It is widely known and proven that the industrialization of food production is toxic for our health, but we're not promoting bio food while talking about 9/11 are we? Still, it's an urgent matter, and tons of evidence prove that GMOs and chemical additives used in favor of profit are slowly but surely killing us.
The idea is just to focus on 1 issue that can stop 2 wars, restore your Constitution and give back individual rights to a huge portion of humanity. Am I so wrong to ask for this???
WeAreChange
We Are Change is a citizens based grassroots peace and social justice movement working to reveal the truth behind the events of September 11th, as well as the lies of the government and corporate elite who remain suspect in this crime. In addition, we are here to aid the sick and dying first responders through fundraising and social outreach programs in order to promote awareness of those who suffer from physical, emotional, and psychological traumas they received in the aftermath of 9-11. We also seek to meet other local citizens who are interested in educating the public while engaging in peaceful demonstration about the pertinent issues that are affecting our lives each and every day. Furthermore, We Are Change is a nonpartisan independent media organization comprised of patriot journalists working to hold those engaging in activities that do not represent the wishes of “We the People” - by asking the hard questions that the controlled mainstream media refuses to do.
We Are Change has arisen from the remnants of our republic to fill the vacancy left by those who swore to preserve, protect and defend The Constitution against all enemies – foreign and domestic. We seek to expose the fraud of the left/right paradigm and reveal that the world truly functions on a top/down hierarchy that threatens to destroy free society as we know it. We Are Change works to educate, motivate, and activate those striving to uncover the truth behind the private banking cartel of the military industrial complex that is directing the majority of U.S. policy, and that is actively seeking to eliminate national sovereignty and replace it with a "one world order." We will also continue to move in a direction that reconnects “We the People” to our nations founding principles laid out in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
We Are Change also seek an uncompromising and independent investigation into the crimes of 9-11, with subpoena power granted to obtain a long-overdue resolution for the survivors and families of the deceased. We reject the official explanation of the events leading up to, during and after the attacks of September 11th, 2001 as well as the fear-based politics and state mandated propaganda being disseminated by the Corporate Media which has facilitated the cover-up of 9-11.
As we establish citizens groups throughout the country and world, we wish to inspire a community of truth-seekers and peacemakers through creative campaigns with a commitment of nonviolence. We Are Change is not so much a group but an idea, an idea that “We the People" are the vehicles of these "ideas" and of the freedoms, liberties, and truths we are seeking all across the globe. An idea that captures the spirits of our forefathers who just desired freedom; that together, as residents of this planet, we grow like a snowball of truth and justice rolling down a mountain of tyranny growing bigger and stronger, recognizing the beauty in our differences and the diverseness of each other, but at the same time strengthening our cause because we learn and grow from each others individuality. Then as we learn to come together, that as one, you, me, him, her, us…will realize that WE ARE CHANGE.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
You just did
"It is widely known and proven that the industrialization of food production is toxic for our health, but we're not promoting bio food while talking about 9/11 are we? Still, it's an urgent matter, and tons of evidence prove that GMOs and chemical additives used in favor of profit are slowly but surely killing us."
You just did promote truth about bio food. That's a good thing.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
Same experiences.
"So I guess that ever since I was a child I've seen chemtrails, because I don't remember having seen any trails that lasted only seconds.?"
The trails left by passenger planes I've seen high up in the sky always lasted much longer than a few seconds.
lasted longer than a few seconds
We are talking about the time from the inception of the trail that it takes to get to the end of the trail, not how long the trail stays behind the plane. Let me put this another way. If you watch a jet contrail tailing behind a jet, the contrail has a certain length to it, but it can trail the plane the entire time you see the plane in the sky, which could be a few minutes; however, the moment the ice crystals are formed behind the jet to the moment the ice crystals dissipate as they absorb the heat of the air and sun is just a matter of seconds. I hope this is making sense.
With chemtrails generally however, the trail does not dissipate, it stays in the sky and spreads until it is no longer recognized as a trail.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
Too complicated
"We are talking about the time from the inception of the trail that it takes to get to the end of the trail, not how long the trail stays behind the plane. Let me put this another way. If you watch a jet contrail tailing behind a jet, the contrail has a certain length to it, but it can trail the plane the entire time you see the plane in the sky, which could be a few minutes; however, the moment the ice crystals are formed behind the jet to the moment the ice crystals dissipate as they absorb the heat of the air and sun is just a matter of seconds. I hope this is making sense."
Honestly, I don't understand at all what you're saying above.
let me try to simplify
When you say that you remember seeing contrails from passenger jets last much longer than a few seconds, what do you mean by that?
Do you mean a contrail of a certain length, going along with a jet, stayed with that jet for much longer than a few seconds?
Or do you mean, even after the jet could no longer be seen, you saw the contrail sitting all by its lonesome self in the sky for much longer than a few seconds?
P.S. We are not talking about passenger jets.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
I meant...
... the latter. I actually have a picture, taken in the winter, in which the plane is no longer seen, but a narrow trail is still visible high up against the blue sky.
There you go
That's a photo of a chemtrail.
With you in the struggle,
Bruno
WeAreChangeLA - http://www.wacla.org
_____________________________________________
I work for the 9-11 First Responders, the 9-11 victims, and all those who are being slaughtered and tortured because of 9-11.
Well said
Great comment!
This is what it takes for 9/11 truth to win!
________________________
The key to successful truth actions lies in not insulting your target audience or promoting speculation as hard fact.
Thank You WACLA
Good to hear about the change in attitude. This is where it happens, on the streets.
This action really brings it home for me. Where you were standing was once in the middle of my paper rout. ;-)
Stay focused
we are making some great breakthru's w/ 9/11 truth.
We are change LA rocks & I hope they will promote AE911 1,000+ professionals sign-up, big-time!
Cass Sunstein
would like to weaken the 9/11 Truth movement by attacking our credibility. I think a wiser strategy is to stay focused on the science otherwise..right or wrong..we risk losing credibility in the eyes of people who may be ready to take another look at 9/11/01.
Cass Sunstein
would like to weaken the 9/11 Truth movement by attacking our credibility. I think a wiser strategy is to stay focused on the science otherwise..right or wrong..we risk losing credibility in the eyes of people who may be ready to take another look at 9/11/01.
I am focused on free fall acceleration,
the fire on floor 12 that had gone out before 4:45 and the shear stud fraud that DRG spoke of in the 1,000 A&Es press conference.
I was commenting on the change of attitude by the public. My bad for not being specific. ;-)
No chemtrails please...
I 'm not getting into the issue of chemtrails and whether it's happening or not. I do agree that it does not belong anywhere near the 9/11 Truth Movement. Let's keep it real simple--just 9/11. That's a lifetime of work right there without other issues mixed in.
KMW
Too bad for you
Chemtrails were around a lot longer than 911, and that's how I got into 911. Every chemtrail activist is also a 911 truther. You probably didn't know that.
Chemtrails are probably the reason so many people swallowed the official story. The aluminum and barium affect your brain. Alzheimers is showing up in people in their 40's and 50's.
LA gets pounded for weeks at a time. Whenever they spray, my eyes get extremely irritated, I cough and sneeze, sometimes my heart palpitates, etc. A few otherwise superhealthy kids have dropped dead on the athletic field, coincidentally on heavy spray days.
The planes are not in the normal flight path. They are military planes. I've seen two coming straight at each other before.
I am with WACLA, and we talk about chemtrails, vaccines and other stuff besides 911 truth. It's all related. Stop the censorship, via voting down, etc., or you're just a faux truther. This is the wacla blog; if you don't like it, look elsewhere.