Structural engineering council (CTBUH) casts doubt on NIST's WTC 7 Report.

The Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat (CTBUH) has published comments on the NIST WTC 7 Report. The CTBUH questions critical points of the NIST WTC 7 collapse theory and also highlights problems with the writing NIST report itself.

The CTBUH criticisms focus on two technical issues The conjectured failure of shear studs and bolts on the supposedly critical Column 79:

Several conclusions drawn in the NIST report on the contribution of structural
components in failure initiation are unexpected and have raised concerns
within the Council. These conclusions involve the role of both shear studs and
local global buckling of the floor beams in failure initiation. The Council
believes that the local connection performance was a significant part of the
global failure and would like to have seen a more explicit analysis of the
connection failure. (See also comment on Chapters 11-13.)

The NIST analysis (p. 353), shows that shear studs and the bolts holding the
primary Column 79 failed before the temperature of the steel reached 200˚C.
This implies a fundamental weakness that would be picked up by a
conventional PBD analysis. These temperatures are very low compared to a
fire protection test that assumes that steel loses strength at 550˚C.

The failure of shear studs is surprising, and has been modeled in a very
simplistic way, which may overestimate the failure of this element. Prior
studies and real fire cases have not previously identified shear stud failure as
a significant possibility Page 5

...

It is difficult to understand why the top bolts of the girder would fail at
connection to Column 79 Page 5

...

The report does not describe the detail failure mechanism of the girder
connection to Column 79. Since this was critical to the failure we would
expect to see diagrams of it, in its deflected, deformed shape immediately
prior to collapse. Page 7

And NIST's assertion that column buckling proceeded floor collapse:

We strongly believe that the initiating event was the
failure of the floor and the girder connections to the main column and that this
should be documented in Section 14.3.4. Page 7

...

The Council does not agree with the NIST statement that the failure was a
result of the buckling of Column 79. We believe that the failure was a result of
the collapse of the floor structure that led to loss of lateral restraint and then
buckling of internal columns. Page 10

However, the CTBUH also casts serious doubt on NIST's entire thermal expansion fairy tale by suggesting that cooling was in fact taking place around the magical Column 79 at the time of failure:

It appears that the fire on Level 12 had passed its peak in the area of Column
79. Is it possible that failure occurred as part of the cooling cycle? Page 6

And questions NIST's hypothesis about floor beams buckling both theoretically and with experimental data:

It is surprising to see in-plane buckling of the beam as being a key generation
of the initial failure, since it would be expected that the floors would bend out
of the way on their major axis, combined with a local buckling of the bottom
flange, like those found in the Cardington Fire Tests. Page 6

Finally, the CTBUH states that it finds the NIST report confusing and contradictory:

The report is rather confusing because the floor analysis is considered in
Sections 8, 11 and 12. It would be better if there was a complete
reconciliation of the analysis models. Page 6

...

In these sections NIST states that the initial failure was caused by the failure
of the floor system, in particular the connections to Column 79, that led to the
column becoming excessively slender and buckling. These statements
contradict the summary section 14.3.4 that identifies the initiating event as the
buckling of Column 79. Page 7

But don't expect the CTBUH to come out and endorse 9/11 Truth either:

The Council would like to make it clear that it sees no credibility whatsoever in
the 911 ‘truth movement’ and we believe, with the vast majority of tall building
professionals, that all the failures at the WTC (WTC 1, 2, 5, 6 and 7) were a
direct or indirect result of the planes that were flown into the two towers. We
have carefully looked at the evidence that the 911 ‘truth movement’ presents
and we cannot see any credible scientific evidence of a controlled demolition
on WTC 7 or any of the other WTC buildings. The Council considers that the
‘truth movement’ is a distraction and should not obfuscate the performance
issues which should be at the center of the debate about how best to continue
to improve and develop fire and life safety in tall buildings. Page 4

So, on the one hand the CTBUH provides at least three good reasons to dismiss the NIST report as a blatant fraud: (a) phenomenal shear-stud and bolt failure at Column 79, (b) cooling around Column 79 at the supposed time of thermal expansive failure and (c) mystical floor beam buckling. But on the other hand, the CTBUH ignores the blatant evidence of controlled demolition in WTC 7 for no technical reason what-so-ever.

(I do not include the CTBUH's insistence that floor failure proceeds column failure as a reason to disregard NIST because the idea that either could cause any kind of a collapse that could be confused with a controlled demolition is plainly absurd).

It should be note the CTBUH chairman and lead author of its NIST WTC 7 Comments, David Scott, has some interesting conflicts of interest (as apparently do his co-authors):

He was in New York on 9-11, 2001 and witnessed the attack on the World Trade Center and was part of the SEAoNY engineering team that worked at Ground Zero to assist with the search, recovery and clean-up.

Following 9-11 he was extensively involved in the industry review of design standards and procedures for tall buildings in extreme events. He has authored papers on Fire Induced Progressive Collapse, and was a reviewer of the US Governments (GSA) design requirements to mitigate progressive collapse, that were issues in 2002. He also worked extensively with Daniel Libeskind on the WTC masterplan and his design for Freedom Tower.

Smoke Screen

"We have carefully looked at the evidence that the 911 ‘truth movement’ presents
and we cannot see any credible scientific evidence of a controlled demolition
on WTC 7 or any of the other WTC buildings."

Slamming the "911 truth movement" in this way is suspicious. Precisely who are they talking about when referring to the "truth movement," Nico Haupt? Judy Wood? This is an attempt to control the discussion on NIST conclusions and tear down the CD theories, categorically. There is nothing scientific about this comment and I suspect nothing scientific in how the opinion was reached. Notice how CTBUH and NIST will not refer to Steven Jones by name or the evidence of explosives residue and eyewitness evidence, specifically. A scientific rebuttal would look like one and would provide clear reasoning on specific claims, which this statement does not. They are obviously afraid of the evidence, or they wouldn't have found it necessary to include a dismissal in their report. Like the NIST statements, it is an "appeal to authority" which many engineers will not contest. Sadly, this makes our work a little harder, but we should take heart in knowing that our efforts have reached and challenged authorities at the highest levels.

They have NOT carefully looked

at the evidence...if at all.

yup

Exactly,

They do not state their reasons why they disagree, because they have no valid reasons.
--------------------
"Is it possible that failure occurred as part of the cooling cycle?"

So when firefighters put out fires with water (which cools the structure much quicker than allowing a fire to die down naturally), that should induce a collapse (let alone global collapse)?

"no credibility whatsoever in the 911 ‘truth movement’ and we believe, with the vast majority of tall building
professionals"

Really? Who are they, and what is their evidence?
I know of many building professionals at ae911truth who disagree with you, and they actually bother to present the evidence for controlled demolition.

Here is a much more honest assessment of the bogus NIST WTC7 report:

http://ae911truth.org/docs/J_Cole_NIST_WTC7_PUBLIC_COMMENTS_FINAL_PKG_9-...

"we cannot see any credible scientific evidence of a controlled demolition on WTC 7 "

What evidence did you look at, and why is it not credible?
----------------------------
The whole report looks like "manufacturing dissent" to me.

I agree...Smoke Screen.

What a tangled web they weave.

accidental clone comment

see above, and below.

It is time to let CTBUH know what evidence....

exists for the CD of WTC 7. The swiss cheese like appearance of steel that FEMA found for example would be a good start. Maybe they can explain what caused that piece of steel to melt among others.
The conflicting times of the actual collapse, etc.

You can register at their forums here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/register.php?do=signup

"I would imagine that if you took the top expert in that type of work and gave him the assignment of bringing these buildings down with explosives, I would bet that he could do it." -1993-John Skilling, Head Structural Engineer WTC Towers

One question for them

Someone please ask this for me:

According to NIST, ordinary office fires brought down a conventional steel-framed skyscraper in a way that parallels a skilled controlled demolition. Has a new and very cheap way of demolishing highrises been invented - a demolition by matches?

Edit. "The Council would like to know if there are any simple changes to the floors and connections that would have resulted in a better performance than occurred."

"would have resulted in a better performance" - as in a skyscraper suddenly not destroying itself as a result of office fires?

Why didn't the Al-Nasr skyscraper collapse to its foundations as a result of these uncontrolled fires on every floor?

http://11syyskuu.net/terrorismi/Doha.jpg

I have heard that the construction quality left a lot to be desired. All the more reason, then, for it to have plummeted to the ground.

O sancta simplicitas...

To answer your question... Yes!

Two Guys and a Match Demo! is HERE... drumroll please.. oh, wait, I mean before..

http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/my-new-business-venture/

I thought that they had

I thought that they had found steel samples that has not only melted but that had evaporated which would require temps near 5,000 degrees.
___________________
Together in Truth!

They did!

They did but this organization seems to ignore that evidence much like NIST did. When asked in their forums about molten steel, the head of the organization responded with ....."what is your hypothesis?" In a sense baiting the explanation into a 9/11 Truth answer which of course he finds no merit in the evidence. It is a pretty circular bait question instead of offering a solution.

"I would imagine that if you took the top expert in that type of work and gave him the assignment of bringing these buildings down with explosives, I would bet that he could do it." -1993-John Skilling, Head Structural Engineer WTC Towers

I saw that comment on their forum. They are shilling.

It is ironic that this organization, which specializes in engineering tall buildings, has chosen to tacitly endorse the NIST report, which is clearly built on a "house of cards" ignoring the obvious true explanation of WTC 7, controlled demolition.

In the forum the moderator, Mr. Scott, mentions the hesitancy of many of their members to make any comments about WTC 7 because this is such a "sensitive" subject.

Translated: If they go with the truth, their jobs could be put in jeopardy.

Great point.....

Why else would WTC 7 be a "sensitive" subject? No one was killed by the collapse, the relevant agencies knew it was going to collapse ahead of time, and after all it was just an inanimate building that has no feelings so the "sensitive" label doesn't fit unless of course a person's opinion of the collapse jeopardizes one's job or the firm's Federal contracts.

"I would imagine that if you took the top expert in that type of work and gave him the assignment of bringing these buildings down with explosives, I would bet that he could do it." -1993-John Skilling, Head Structural Engineer WTC Towers

Good additional observation Swingdangler..

To elaborate on my earlier point about tacit endorsement:

They did not totally agree with the NIST conclusions, but they agree that fire was the causal factor.
This disagreement is significant.
It is noteworthy that this group disagrees with the NIST study at all. To me, this is a victory for the 911 Truth movement. When CTBUH impugns the credibility of the report put together by MIT PHD Dr. Sham Sunder, and his group of researchers, it proves that even with their "impressive" credentials, the NIST team members are fallible to a point that an official association of structural engineers called them out on many of their findings.

They tacitly endorse Dr. Sham's conclusion that fire brought the building down, although they float an alternative theory as to how that happened. They apparently believe their story sells the cover-up better than the NIST study results. I have no doubts that both started out with the conclusion and worked their way backwards.

Again, as I have said before, if there weren't extreme criminal implications, and the implications of those implications, they would have come to the CD conclusion in short order. Controlled demolition wasn't in their list of possible answers. They resist the real truth because they are employed in each job by individuals and or corporations who have vested interests in perpetuating the status quo and because they have an immense conditioned resistance to entertaining the possibility of what they consider "unthinkable".

Releveant Link To The Swiss Cheese Steel

In case a someone joins the forums or one of their members makes there way here, the relevant link to the swiss cheese steel can be found at:
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/metallurgy/index.html

The page also includes links to the actual trade journal where the analysis was first described by the investigators.

"I would imagine that if you took the top expert in that type of work and gave him the assignment of bringing these buildings down with explosives, I would bet that he could do it." -1993-John Skilling, Head Structural Engineer WTC Towers

The steel

No discussion?

I didn't find any discussion of this on their discussion forums.

If such a discussion is taking place, please give a pointer.

CTBUH

It's buried 4 layers deep.

SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Tall Buildings & Urban Habitat > Working Groups

Comments on Nist Recommendations for Performance Based Design of Tall Buildings

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=697314&page=2

Thanks Chris

I posted some comments.

"The council believes"... "We strongly believe..."

If the cause and mechanism of the building's unprecedented destruction had been determined by carefully examining the debris, important things like these would not need to be based on belief.