David Ray Griffin added to Lineup - Remember to tune into tonight's installment of 9/11 Truth on Air America Radio
AJFan Thu, 05/15/2008 - 6:26pm
(David Ray Griffin has been added to tonight's lineup, as well as Col. George Nelson and Barbara Honegger. -rep.)
Updated: (5/16/08) May 15th Show
(71 Minutes - 8 Meg)
This Thursday, May 15th, Rob Balsamo of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, Craig Ranke of the Citizen's Investigation Team (CIT), and Barrett will debate the question of what happened at the Pentagon against one or more yet-to-be-named opponents. The show runs 8-10 pm Central at http://airamerica.com/clout/ and on Air America stations around the USA.
Last Week's Show produced by Kevin Barrett featuring Richard Gage, Tony Szamboti and Stephen Jones
(111 Minutes - 12.7 Meg)
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Major announcement regarding a breakthrough...
I heard that the CIT guys are going to be making an announcement regarding a MAJOR breakthrough with brand new evidence obtained this week. I rarely listen to Air America, but I need to hear this one live.
"You could get a journalist cheaper than a good call girl, for a couple hundred dollars a month." - CIA operative discussing with Philip Graham, editor Washington Post, 1991 "
Hope.
This show spurs on more activism, questioning, and patriotism.
Sad
It's sad that all this has to be 'hush hush' or last minute when it's going out to thousands of people.
Griffin clearly believes AA77 did not hit there so there is zero voice of opposition to the no Boeing position, meaning this is a biased presentation of the beliefs of 9/11 researchers. Even if they mention that not everyone agrees, they will have the full amount of time to attempt to make the case.
If they have a "debunker" on there, all they have do is ask where the passengers went if AA77 didn't hit there and game's over for the average American public.
* http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ppfinal.html
The "Pod People" And The Plane That Crashed Into the Pentagon
* http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html
Rumsfeld's "Pentagon missile" hoax: the most important 9/11 "truth" disinformation
* http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagontrap.html
The Pentagon No-757-Crash Booby Trap
That's the part i hate
...............where did the passengers go then?.......If we knew exactly what happened it would be a done deal.
How about a new independant investigation with supeona power? I think we have enough justifiable questions to warrent one.
For all we know
They are being tortured in some secret CIA gulag. They have that much power and this would simply be them exerting that power and getting away with it.
Used simply as a hitch in any conspiracy theory directed at them. If we can get people to understand the towers.... the missing people is just another hurdle that they couldn't possibly accept
___________________
Together in Truth!
fate of the passengers
Its an irrelevant argument.
It is most likely they are dead. the correct question is how they died. It would be too risky for the criminal elements to have the passengers alive elsewhere under new identities, even in another country. they had to be eliminated. Now, whether or not they were disposed of in a second aircraft over deep seas is a reasonable speculation. It is plausible, and fits with the moral pattern displayed by the criminal elements that pulled this op off.
as the break in the chain of the governments logic has already been established, its irrelevant at this juncture to speculate on the final disposition of the passengers. Its impossible that Hani Hanjour piloted the plane, its impossible that he could have made the final approach and impact, its impossible he could have remained in control of the aircraft even after striking the light poles and from the ground effect lift at the high speed following a tight bank.
Until we have the full opportunity for discovery, access to unfiltered records, and the ability to enforce subpoenas and testimony under oath, attempting to guess the fate of the passengers is pure speculation.
irrelevant argument
Why don't you tell that to a family member who lost someone, that the fate of their father, or mother, or brother is irrelevant except that they died.
These kinds of statements only underscore to those who want to malign us how disconnected we are from humanity.
A false flag took place and there are some good points to expose it, but making wild speculation about missiles, bombs, flyovers, etc., based on claims like how some people can be trusted to know what they saw, and some cannot (because they are a government worker . . . just as every single troop is in Iraq is right now, just as many of those on patriotsquestion911 are, and just as the vast majority of DC probably is) will only tank the rest of the strong and good work that people are doing by tainting it with offensive nonsense.
This is way beyond sloppy.
Irrational appeal to emotion
You are making an appeal to emotion in your arguments. I made no wild assertions in my arguments and for you to suggest otherwise is either sloppy reading, or poor understanding of what I said.
You obviously do not understand how to weigh evidence, how to impeach witnesses, or how to establish or quash credibility.
In the absence of physical evidence, the next logically weighted evidence is going to be competing witness statements. You then have to both establish your witnesses superior credibility versus the governments witnesses - who by the nature of their office, are going to have an advantage - initially. The presumption is initially going to be in favor of the government. The Truth movement must overwhelm that presumption - not just equal. A draw based on the evidence, or the witnesses is going to be insufficient.
You cannot prove either way beyond a reasonable doubt what truly happened to the passengers on Flight 77. Just because they are dead does not establish how they died, merely that they are dead.
I wonder
If Lloyd England is worried that he will be exposed as the mastermind of 9/11?
I guess he doesn't count as a witness, being to busy smashing out his windshield in rush hour traffic.
Mike Walter I'm sure is also sweeting bullets, along with that evil Father McGraw. And wheelhouse I'm sure is worried that he will be exposed as an "agent".
Last minute
last minute because apparently that's the way this show comes together.
we certainly pushed for more lead time.
that it is happening at all is the point.
PLEASE LISTEN EVERYONE...
Richard Greene says he will stop doing these shows unless tons of people tune in on the internet and listen to prove there is a large audience out there that believes these theories about 9/11 because he is sticking his neck out doing these shows and if no one tunes in he doesn't see the point of continuing.
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence
Richard Greene
is trying to get us to call all of our friends to come to the party nobody knows about. glad he's having the party but i received no advance warning and they removed my post at Air America's site. I think Richard is fighting a battle over there.
I am a Richard Greene fan
People...
I would like to see on AirAmerica's Clout with Richard Greene or NOVA Radio's show with Mike Malloy (or any mainstream media outlet willing to really delve into the issues):
Lorie Van Auken
Mindy Kleinberg
Patty Casazza
Monica Gabrielle
Bob McIlvaine
Donna Marsh O'Connor
Cynthia McKinney
Paul Thompson
Nafeez Ahmed
Kyle Hence
John Judge
Peter Dale Scott
Ray McGovern
Barrie Zwicker
Peter Phillips
Sibel Edmonds
Coleen Rowley
Karen Kwiatkowski
Catherine Austin Fitts
Dr. Faiz Khan
Michael Springmann
Topics I think should be discussed:
1) Were the 9/11 Commission, the Joint Congressional Inquiry, the PENTTBOM investigation, the NIST investigation, the Able Danger investigation, and the FEMA investigation adequate?
2) The actions of this administration, and prior administrations from 1979 up until the 9/11 attacks.
3) The actions of the CIA, NSA, FBI, DIA, and any other alphabet agency I can't think of from 1979 up until the 9/11 attacks.
4) The day of 9/11 itself which includes FAA/NORAD Response, Wargames, the actions of every agency that may have been involved that day (FEMA, CIA, NSA, FBI, etc...), the Executive Branch's actions, the Secret Service's actions, and so on.
5) Possible Foreign Government involvement.
6) Policies and actions that have taken place as a result of 9/11 (The Afghanistan War, The Iraq War, The Patriot Act I & II, The Military Commissions Act, The John Warner Defense Bill, Warrantless Wiretapping, etc...)
7) Was money used in the 9/11 attacks connected to anyone we know?
8) Who benefited the most?
That should be enough to get you started...
Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?
Jon why not discuss...
...the collapses of the three buildings? Aren't they better smoking guns, especially WTC7, to wake up the public? Why specifically exclude this? Because this is what was talked about last week with Steven Jones. By the way, no disrespect to family members, but it was Steven Jones who found traces of nano-thermite in the dust, not the family members. I don't understand your unwarranted prejudice towards anyone who isn't an family member and didn't attend every commission meeting.
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence
They already did...
And the "day of 9/11" includes EVERYTHING, and A LOT of people in that list did not attend the investigations. By the way... "unwarranted prejudice?" Remember... whatever anger, frustration, anguish, stress you feel with regards to everything concerning the 9/11 attacks, PALES in comparison to what the family members are going through. I simply can't imagine what they're going through (think of everything done in their loved ones name), but whatever it is, I know they deserve better than they've gotten. As do we all. They have NOT gotten ANY coverage (with VERY few exceptions), and they deserve to be heard.
How can you watch that, and NOT want to do everything in your power to help him, and them? Maybe it's the way I think. Maybe I'm wrong. It doesn't feel like it.
Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?
I totally agree with you...
...the family members don't get enough coverage but something is better than nothing and I don't think just because family members don't get enough exposure that we shouldn't get Richard Gage, Steven Jones and other experts in their field in the media as much as possible. I would much rather Richard Gage describing to the masses the anomalies of the collapses than a family member. He just has more authority on that particular subject, even if he didn't lose someone on 9/11.
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." -The Declaration of Independence
I don't...
Know how much interaction you've had with them, but I am forever amazed at the information the families are aware of. Especially those that took part in the hearings.
Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?
"Where did the passengers go?" ?!?
What does it matter to the argument? (Of course it matters very much to the passengers, their loved ones, morality, justice, etc.) Shallow grave? Burial at sea? The people who brought us 9/11 probably were not very scrupulous about what happened to the passengers. And, by the way, DRG, as far as I know, always says he doesn't know for certain what hit the Pentagon, but he's certain it was not an airplane piloted by Hani Hanjour.
Question: what's the best way to get my listenership "counted" by Air America if I cannot get "Clout" on my radio? Is there one online source better than another for "being counted"?
Fred W
For anyone tuning in...
Griffin was not on in the first segment, will hopefully be on soon.
I heard him
He was great and then some bozo came on and called him "a liar" and Richard Greene told him that he would not tolerate Ad Hominems.
I think its a great show so far.
Old video...
Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?
But Jon, Griffin is
But Jon, Griffin is explaining that there were no real eyewitnesses -- they all either worked for the government or saw something very different from a Boeing -- and that none of the DNA evidence can be linked back to the scene and the victims.
Interesting how all the government workers on patriotsquestion911 are never questioned, but because the government workers who saw AA77 aren't reporting what the no-Boeing theorists want they now "don't count."
you have to admit
it is suspcious that government workers would be at the pentagon
This one is undercover as a civilian..sneaky aren't they?
http://www.dailymotion.com/Ashoka_lc/Pentagon/video/x1ihc1_pentagon-eyew...
...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2936761.ece
According to Sakka, Nawaf al-Hazmi was a veteran operative who went on to pilot the plane that hit the Pentagon. Although this is at odds with the official account, which says the plane was flown by another hijacker, it is plausible and might answer one of the mysteries of 9/11.
The Pentagon plane performed a complex spiral dive into its target. Yet the pilot attributed with flying the plane “could not fly at all” according to his flight instructors in America. Hazmi, on the other hand, had mixed reviews from his instructors but they did remark on how “adept” he was on his first flight.
Paul Thompson, author and 9/11 researcher, said Sakka’s account was credible. “I think there is a lot more about the history of the hijackers that needs to be found out and Sakka’s claim may resume the debate about just how much was known about them before 9/11,” he said.
Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?
Nelson
Col. Nelson thinks a missile hit . . . sad. Basically NO ONE thinks a missile hit, yet here is an *expert* who claims this. The evidence against this is overwhelmingly against such a claim.
20 invalid points don't make a case.
He did not say this
listen the interview . . he was asked if the debris looked like a 757 and he said something like . . 'no, it might have been another kind of an aircraft or a missle I suppose' . . . he was clearly speculating . . his point was that he saw no evidence that a 757 hit the pentagon.
he did not say, "a missle hit the pentagon".
Ron Wieck
I frequently argue with Ronald Wieck at the JREF forums. He seems to know very little about anything 9/11 related. My brother had an argument with him last summer at the Amazon forums. My brother(Denvilda) asked Ron Wieck about the claim that Mark Roberts held the molten material in his hand that was leaking from the South Tower right before it collapsed. Mark Roberts on the Hardfire debate with Bermas and Avery claimed it was aluminum, as opposed to molten iron. My brother asked Wieck why didn't Mark Roberts turn this evidence over to NIST or FEMA so the matter could be settled. Ron Wieck had no idea what he was talking about. He had to run off to the Randi Forums to find out what was on his own show!
As well, Ron Wieck seems to still support the pancake collapse hyopthesis. He wrote to me at the JREF forums last week, "Are you suggesting that there is someone outside a mental institution who doesn't think the floors pancaked? What would that mythical person say about all the videos showing the floors, uh, pancaking?"... "Once the global collapse ensued, the floors necessarily pancaked. What else could they be expected to do?"
"When you did it previously, you showed that the floors actually pancaked, and we did not see any evidence of pancaking in the videos or photographs we have."
S. Shyam Sunder, "Building on Ground Zero" PBS
Ron Wieck seems unware of what the current "official" explanation is for the collapse of the towers.
Is this the best "debunker" the government propagandists can find?
I bitch-slapped Ron Wieck last year at Amazon
On an Amazon discussion last year on the product page for Debunking 9/11 Debunking, someone started a thread about the then newly-formed ae911truth.org. Ronald Wieck posted, saying: "Gage recycles all the thoroughly debunked canards conspiracy liars have been peddling for years. Will the latest kid on the fantasist block actually be willing to debate anyone who can expose his snake oil? Don't hold your breath."
I put him in his place saying:
_______________________________
Ronald "Pomeroo" Wieck:
Not only are you a "shill," you are a hypocrite as well. When I watched the "off-air" footage with yourself, Roberts, and the Loose Change crew, you said, politely: "One thing that really bugs me [addressing Avery and Bermas] is when people call each other liars and shills" and so forth. Well, why is it that when you post as "pomeroo" on JREF or when you post silly comments on forums like this, you refer to the truth movement as "liars" and its claims as "canards" which we have been "peddling." In fact, the word "peddling" is also right out of Jim Meigs' mouth. You are the ultimate hypocrite, sir.
You also refer to us as fantasists, and, as is the vogue for JREF, "twoofers." With regard to your moniker and description on the JREF forum, even your self-description of "unpaid gubmint shill" is something of an untruth, given that SOMEONE must have given you a paycheck for these Hardfire shows in which you invite people on your show, including Rodriguez (who declined), for the sole purpose of debunking them. I'm sure you were paid for the episodes Mark Roberts was on. I also imagine you get paid for contributing to the right-wing magazine "American Thinker," in which you call Michael Moore a socialist America-hater. Regardless of WHO is paying you, and obviously your paycheck is coming from various private-sector employers in journalism, etc., you are shamelessly shilling for the government's official version of the 9/11 attacks, and as Griffin shows in the present book, it is the "debunking attempts" on behalf of Popular Mechanics which are the canards that have been thoroughly debunked.
Why don't you give your conscience a good look in the mirror and step over to the correct side of history.
Still talking about
Jamie McIntire on cnn. An Edited clip by webfairy is still fooling people. Unreal. And there is no other video of the impact, but don't worry they have video
http://flight77.info/85videos.html
Unreal
Indeed . .. and notice how Greene sides against Weick over and over. Granted he's a jerk and makes stupid points, but this is clearly a biased interview. Can't imagine why.
Wikipedia also often supports the hoax claims that can discredit us, siding with whatever the nuttiest claims are.
That works.
Greene is biased
he has been trying now for three weeks to find an expert to defend the official story and all he can find are idiots . . this is making an impression on him.
Damn !......
I understand they need the money from advertizing but come on ! He Rep think we can get the edited version?
Thanks Air America for covering this topic !
Please......
send Air America e mails thanking them for covering this !
Me thinks the edited version will be available tomorrow
advertising is a very good sign.
we really want these guys to find out that 9/11 draws audiences and makes money . . . katy bar the door
advertising
Even if there is a huge audience, it probably won't translate into advertising revenue for Air America. The people who control the advertising budgets are the same people who support the administration and the official 911 myth. The unwritten rule is not to advertise on liberal talk stations, especially if they give any voice to the 911 Truth Movement. Those who cross that line will be retaliated against in some form or fashion.
i don't think so
there may be a little free market economics at work. its more like google advertising, they pay for impressions and number of streams and are agnostic about the political content or the programming although they try very hard to match subject matter/audiences with specific products.
thanks to Richard Greene for getting this out to the public
It is great to hear this. I hope he can stay with it. It will make a difference.
Pentagon hole
Pentagon Building Performance Report does not mention the size of the hole in the E-ring of the Pentagon. Ron Wieck said that the hole was 96 feet across. Where does it say this in the report? The report mentions that the plane impacted at column line 14. The report states, "A second photograph (figure 3.9) taken before the collapse reveals that first-floor exterior columns on column lines 15, 16, and 17 were severely distorted but still attached at least at their top ends to the second-floor framing."
Column damage and distortion is not a hole. It is better to say that it was 90ft or so of damage, opposed to a hole.
Go to the Hunt The Boeing Site
measure it yourself . . . it was a 16 ft whole when i measured it . . . probably not good enough for a court of law, but it was good enough for me.
I think...
A lot of theories were stated as fact... I think a few errors were made on both sides, and Ron Weick was obviously the @sshole that he always is, and he got called on his bs. There was debris there. There was. The only debate against that is that it was planted. We have no evidence of that. Charred bodies in seats? I've never seen an article, witness, or photo to suggest that (preferably a photo would be nice). Anyone? Apparently, Scott Bingham no longer runs www.flight77.info. It seems to be run by a "debunker" now. I can't believe the fact that the most defended airspace in the world was left completely undefended 34 minutes after the second tower was hit, when everyone in the world KNEW America was under attack, wasn't discussed. If you want proof that everyone in the WORLD knew America was under attack, just watch some of the live coverage from the videos posted in this blog. Dr. Griffin mentioned the Doomsday plane, but very briefly... I think Rob Balsamo made a few good points. It could have been worse, but it could have been better.
Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?
unscientific speculation
What was interesting were all the internal contradictions on the no-Boeing side. Balsamo said he could execute the manuver in a few tries but Honegger claimed it was "physically impossible," a point long ago debunked. And what was it, a flyover, a missile, a bomb, all of the above? They were all presented.
This amounts to speculation, nothing more.
It was physically impossible
my view
Well....
Jon said: We have no evidence of that. Charred bodies in seats? I've never seen an article, witness, or photo to suggest that (preferably a photo would be nice). Anyone?
Well according to this article.....
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/sept01/2001-09-14-pentagon-usat.htm
"When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him.
"It was the worst thing you can imagine," said Williams, whose squad from Fort Belvoir, Va., entered the building, less than four hours after the terrorist attack"
Thank you...
Jim. I had not seen that before. Still... it's a witness... I would much rather see a photograph. I can't believe 1000's of pictures weren't taken of the crime scene that would include pictures of charred bodies strapped into their seats.
One of the things I realized after getting offline last night is... Richard never mentioned the fact that there are people in the 9/11 Truth Movement that think Flight 77 did hit the Pentagon. He portrayed our position as being no plane hitting the Pentagon. That is simply not true.
Incidentally, "We have no evidence of that" was referring to the idea that plane parts were planted on the scene. Not that there were charred bodies strapped to their seats.
Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?
NSA Today
USA Today is not a reliable source of information regarding 9/11.
"I can't believe the fact that the most defended airspace...
..... in the world was left completely undefended 34 minutes after the second tower was hit, when everyone in the world KNEW America was under attack, wasn't discussed."
Yes.
This has always been, IMHO, one of the strongest initial points to make with people unfamiliar with this material, and have said so here repeatedly (I always point out that Andrews AFB was 10-15 miles away).
The point being, "How does ANYTHING hit the Pentagon?"
Glad to see you agree Jon.
I do wonder how much longer than 34 minutes it was on that day until the fighters arrived.
9/11 Truth ends the 9/11 Wars
altruist........
Good point.......Also lets see the tapes and serial #"s from the plane parts.
Stupid Question:
What does CIT stand for?
Counselor In Training...
Why isn't Dick Cheney in prison?
CIT
Citizen Invetigation Team.
It is comprised of Craig Ranke, Aldo Marquis and Domenick DiMaggio I believe.
Thanks.
Thanks.
The CIT controversy
They are controversial within the 9/11 Truth Movement for promoting the Pentagon fly-over theory. The excellent 911blogger Arabesque has written much about them at his blog. Check out his disinformation section.
For their side of things check out their website.
Take a look for yourself
Controversy and 9/11 Truth go together like ice cream and apple pie.
Resist the orthodoxy