Is Bill M. terrified of Dr. David Ray Griffin?

(Just joined the HBO forums. I'll see if this one makes it to the actual message board.)

Bill's obstinance and refusal to debate 9/11 is a serious issue. It puts his credibility on the line. If he's so sure of himself, why won't he address the leading authors about the 9/11 cover up?

He also has taken the cowardly line, obfuscating the government cover up and lies about 9/11 with the one issue of controlled demolition. Forgetting that he's done nothing to actually disprove the demolition hypothesis, other than ad hominem childish attacks, he has yet to acknowledge that we really don't know what happened on 9/11 because it was completely covered up by the white house, and that the 9/11 commission report was an obvious farce.

One of Dr. Griffin's books documents 115 "Lies and Omissions" in that report. Other prominent writers and researchers should be invited to address these issues. Until that day, when we get a FAIR hearing, Bill will continue to feel the heat from the street.

Dr. David Ray Griffin, author of 5 books on this subject
Nafeez M Ahmed, author of 3 books on this subject
Professor Michel Chossudovsky, of globalresearch.ca
Daniel Hopsicker, author of Welcome to Terrorland
Wayne Madsen, former NSA officer, publisher of the Wayne Madsen Report
Michael C. Ruppert, author of Crossing the Rubicon
Cynthia Mckinney, former congresswoman, held hearings on the failures of the 9/11 commisssion
Peter Dale Scott, former Canadian official and author
Barrie Zwicker, Canadian documentary filmmaker

Numerous credible and educated people have torn the government's story to shreds. Is Bill blindly defending an indefensible cover story?

That is the question.

John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State Blog
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/

Maybe include more names

of people who represent the government's side and yet support our version of events.

Like, debunkers don't think there's any problem evident when the head of the NIST investigation into WTC7 says he and his crew don't have clue why it collapsed.

Or when the former head of the NIST fire sciences division says the NIST investigation of WTC was a fraud.

Also, don't forget to identify Peter Dale Scott as a professor.

I agree...

...but for his own reason, Bill refuses to "go there". He has stated his opinion publicly so leave it at that. I don't quite understand why you are going after this one man. There are countless people who I respect who believe the official story and won't waver on that. It pisses them off every time I mention 9/11 so I don't waste my energy beating these guys over the head. Time to move on...go after Hearst Publication's Popular Mechanics guys. Better yet, use your energy to educate people in the streets who are receptive to knowing more.

Right now all I hear people talking about is how annoying 9/11 truthers are becoming. As it is effective in bringing attention to us, it seems like it will only bite us in the ass ultimately. People will turn off to this kind of agitation.

I am however in awe of your energy and determination. I appreciate that you are getting out there with such ferver...just try to be a bit more respectful while you are out there. Bill had a point about the word "audience". It was your choice to be part of the audience. Whether you like it or not, it's Bill's show and you have done nothing but turn him farther away from the truth and any chance of a 9/11 debate on his show.

My take.

"..but for his own reason, Bill refuses to "go there". He has stated his opinion publicly so leave it at that. I don't quite understand why you are going after this one man."

Actually, he has attacked the controlled demoliton theory. I think you would agree there is more to 9/11 than that. He also has done so without any investigation into the details. Plane hit building. Building fall. Gee, thanks for the insight Bill (why are people watching you?)

" There are countless people who I respect who believe the official story and won't waver on that. It pisses them off every time I mention 9/11 so I don't waste my energy beating these guys over the head. "

I don't respect anyone who prefers ignorance, and is ok with a blatant, obvious government cover up.

As for beating them over the head, there are differerent approaches to try. I say, 'try them all.' We aren't just going "after Bill." It's his audience, in person, and on the air that is also the target of our efforts, of course.

The public commons have disappeared and become corporate mind controlled playgrounds of consumerism and distraction. Why should we play along?

"Time to move on...go after Hearst Publication's Popular Mechanics guys."

What does that mean? They aren't on a regular tv show (much less a live one where the disruption can make it to air). They are propagandists for the other side, and aren't going to suddenly flip.

" Better yet, use your energy to educate people in the streets who are receptive to knowing more."

We can do both.

"Right now all I hear people talking about is how annoying 9/11 truthers are becoming."

There's a lot of annoying truthers. I've been fighting with them for years. There is no intelligence test to join "the movement."

We do the best we can with the movement we've got. I try to give guidance and advice, but you can only lead them to water...

Aren't mass casualty terror attacks sanctioned by the unelected regime a tad more "annoying?"

" As it is effective in bringing attention to us, it seems like it will only bite us in the ass ultimately. People will turn off to this kind of agitation."

Or they'll get off their fat, lazy apathetic asses and go find out what the hell we're talking about. Sometimes the medicine tastes bitter. We live in a spoiled, sugar addicted society of dullards, entertainment addicts. They are conditioned to be as pathetic as I have described. Shocking them out of their sports/sex/video induced stupor isn't easy work.

"I am however in awe of your energy and determination. I appreciate that you are getting out there with such ferver...just try to be a bit more respectful while you are out there."

This I agree with. They shouldn't have shouted over the guest. They should have waited for a break in the flow and made their protest then. If they can calmly walk up to the stage and present their evidence to the front, it would be a better symbolic demonstration.

" Bill had a point about the word "audience". It was your choice to be part of the audience."

Now this is where it gets sticky. Audience is all the corporate masters of the airwaves, and of the public mind, will allow us to be. It is a direct protest against this reality that drives the protestors.

Why should Maher have an open mic to attack us broadcast to millions, while we have no similar recourse?

There is no "free speech" on the corporate owned media, whatsoever. Everything is vetted and controlled (except for a few shouts now and then). They are terrified of having a loose cannon like a "truther" saying things that the higher ups will have a melt down over. Those that run the organizations and set policy are complicit with the crimes.

These are supposed to be "public" airwaves, but we know the reality. They have given, in classic fascist fashion, the control of our airwaves to private entities to exploit and to control any way they see fit.

The public has been put to intellectual sleep as a result. Cranks like Maher give them the illusion they have some freedom -- in the media -- so when Maher is exposed as an obvious gatekeeper of information, a censor no different from any other corporate shill, this is a powerful revelation. It can wake people up.

" Whether you like it or not, it's Bill's show and you have done nothing but turn him farther away from the truth and any chance of a 9/11 debate on his show."

After 6 years of absolute censorship in the "land of the free" I don't really see how Bill was going to come around on his own?

He's a tool. Nothing more. He should get it just like the rest of them. His comments about "Paxil" were certainly not neutral. He went on the attack (in his ignorance/malevolence), and so he deserves a response. He deserves a non-stop continual response until we get fair treatment.

We can beat this particular argument to death too...

Bottom Line, for whatever reason, Bill doesn't give a fuck....so why beat a dead horse and make people like Rosie O'Donnell cringe too? I believe that she is in full support until something like this occurs. This action is making people uncomfortable...most notably, people who are supportive of the cause, therefore, I don't give a damn whether you respect my opinions or Rosie's or anyone else who supports this cause wholeheartedly, I think whomever was in the audience heckling Bill, needs to stop now...it was worth a try but is obviously not effective (in a positive way) for this movement. Shit, we have enough against us...why dig that "crazy conspiracy people" stereotype deeper into that hole? More people are getting turned OFF than ON...it is as simple as that. This kind of harassment is simply additional fodder for FOX news.

One more note: These people aren't "Fat" or "Lazy" in their Enterprise, as you suggested...they are "scripted" and paid well for it,..which is a far cry from those who are fighting against the machine...pick your battle...this is a dead horse.

Time to move on to more productive enterprises.

Oh he doesn't?

"Bottom Line, for whatever reason, Bill doesn't give a fuck...."

That's why he attacked us with the Paxil line?

That's why he jumped up to assault the protestors?

That's why he's imitating fascists?

He gives a fuck.

It could be he doesn't want to give up his faux edgy (controlled) live broadcast format. If he switches to pre taped, he'll look like a wimp. Good.

More opportunities for us.

Fuck Shill Maher. I hope he has trouble sleeping. The guilt of what he's doing is being rendered with more clarity.

See Bill Douglas' piece.

70 Disturbing Facts About 9/11

John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State Blog
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/

johndoraemi --at-- yahoo.com.

Good Point John Doraemi.

"The 9/11 Commission Report was an obvious farce" True. and we shouldn't forget that it was resisted by the White House along with any investigation whatsoever until finally The Jersey Girls forced the issue upon them. Thanks to the Jersey Girls for even forcing this obvious farce in the first place. This administration is so guilty it isn't even funny and Bill Maher is an asshole no better than Jeff Gannon. Keep up the pressure. And thanks for joining the HBO boards. You'll see some of my stuff there as well. Peace.

Harball on Monday.

Someone should be sure to tape Chris Matthews Hardball show on Monday to see if he summarizes his views on the experience he underwent on the Bill Maher Show Friday. I'd like to hear his take on the issue.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/
Contact address: hardball@msnbc.com

And please feel free to share your thoughts with Representative Sheila Jackson Lee (D) who was also on the show when this occurred.
http://www.jacksonlee.house.gov/feedback.cfm?campaign=jacksonlee&type=Le...