Hitting back at the left-gatekeepers
I weighed in yesterday and today on a post on Dissident Voice, "9/11 — Conspiracy or Blowback?" by Rosemarie Jackowski / September 8th, 2007. Jackowski attributes everything to "blowback". I posted a response yesterday:
Mike Zimmer said on September 9th, 2007 at 10:40 pm #
This is not an particularly insightful analysis. Although I respect Blum and know about the blowback thesis, 9/11 was far from a case of simple blowback. Start here, and inform yourselves:
http://ae911truth.org/
http://www.911review.com/
http://www.journalof911studies.com/
http://www.mediamonitors.net/mosaddeq37.html
Blowback advocate rosemarie jackowski took my comments as hostility, and replied:
rosemarie jackowski said on September 10th, 2007 at 10:04 am #
Thanks for the comments. Keep them coming. One thing I have noticed here and also in my e-mail is a real hostility of those who believe in the conspiracy against those who either do not believe or still have doubts. Mike Zimmer makes the inaccurate assumption that some of us have not read the links he has here. My position is that I have no position on the conspiracy theory. I have yet to be convinced, not because I have been sitting back eating bonbons but because I have a few other issues with a higher priority. The main focus of my work concerns the millions of innocent civilians that we have killed in Iraq - and many other places.
I believe that we should be working together. We share a common distrust for the US government. It is not necessary to agree on every point. Hostility against each other is counter-productive. I congratulate those who believe in the conspiracy and hope that soon you/they will convince a majority of citizens. In the meantime, I have no position on the conspiracy but I have a very strong position on the slaughter of civilians.
I in turn replied:
Mike Zimmer said on September 10th, 2007 at 11:58 am #
Your comment is awaiting moderation - we'll get to it ASAP!
Rosemarie Jackowski,
You can read my comments as hostility, but that would be a very idiosyncratic reading of them. They reflect a general despair, shared by those of us who have personally spent thousands of hours working to penetrate the fog of disinformation surround the events of September 11, 2001.
That you and other peace activists think that the 9/11 false flag operation isn’t directly related to the millions of innocent civilians killed in Iraq is astonishing to us.
1 - The evidence that the three towers were brought down by explosives is extraordinarily strong, in the view of many scientists, architects, engineers, pilots, demolition experts, and informed lay-people with a solid understanding of Newtonian physics.
2 - In order to bring down the towers with explosives, complicity on the part of people in positions of responsibility is absolutely guaranteed. I can only give informed speculation as to who, but the issue won’t go away.
3 - The whole key for obtaining leverage to stop these psychopaths in power lies in the proper exposure of the crime of September 11. Many other sober and highly intelligent, well-informed commentators can explain why this is the case more clearly than can I.I am at a loss to understand why so many peace activists are at in denial on this. Meanwhile, the peace movement, co-opted as it is by the DLC, continues to go nowhere. On the other hand, on a daily basis, more and more movers and shakers in the world come out and call for a new investigation on 9/11, and admit that maybe rogue elements in the government, at the very least, allowed the attacks to happen on purpose. The latest to come onside to some extent is right-wing libertarian peace activist Justin Raimondo.
As of this morning, from the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth site:
161 architectural and engineering professionals and 381 other supporters including A/E students have joined us in calling on Congress for a new investigation. Everyone may join AE911Truth.org!
Read that again: 161 architects and engineers know that the towers did not come down as advertised, are willing to come out publicly, risk scorn and ridicule and careers, and say so! This figure grows daily, whenever they encounter the evidence presented by Richard Gage, AIA. Do you seriously believe that these people are not professionally competent to understand the issue? I certainly don’t.
See http://www.ae911truth.org/ for details.
I don't know if this type of exchange is productive or counter-productive on the whole. I doubt that I will get anywhere with Rosemarie Jackowski, but perhaps will make a few others think that I have a few good points.
I would really like to see this done more consistently at the gatekeeper sites. We don't need support from those engaging in extreme speculation, we don't need ad hominen attacks, but we do need reasonably well-argued counter positions presented whenever a hit piece or a gatekeeper piece appears. I would sure like others who agree with me to help. Maybe start with Dissident Voice, assuming it is a reasonably well read site. (Is it? I don't know how to find out that sort of information)
Regards
Michael Zimmer
http://www.TheProgressiveMind.info
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Unfortunately
Rosemarie Jackowski is not the only person openly supporting blowback right in front of our faces . . . .
PJ
Ann Arbor Truth and Freedom
http://www.annarbor911truth.com
*My Views Do Not Necessarily Reflect The Views of The Group I Am A Part Of
Addendum - another post on the thread
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Mike Zimmer said on September 10th, 2007 at 3:02 pm #
Sorry Rosemarie, that I cannot make you see the 9/11 is THE linchpin issue. It is not peripheral, it is the only issue that has any chance of reversing the decades old cancer that infects the U.S. of A. To the extent that we reveal the 9/11 lies, we disempower the neocons and the corporate/financial war machine. Even impeachment will not have the same affect.
The disagreement amongst “experts” comes in large part from government shills and those who have not examined the work of the Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice http://stj911.org/, the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Pilots for 9/11 Truth. Read Griffin on Debunking 9/11 Debunking for instance. Read Barry Zwicker. By the way, if you are amongst those who consider James Meigs, Michael Chertoff, and others on the staff of Popular Mechanics staff as “experts”, I believe that you have been conned. I hope that this is not the case.
Regards
Michael Zimmer
http://www.TheProgressiveMind.info
Yet another post
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mike zimmer said on September 11th, 2007 at 9:20 am #
Rosemarie,
I share your misgivings about Ron Paul. However, his stand on involvement in war is unequivocal. He has to be better than the right or left wing warmongers. Kucinich or Gravel would probably be better. all three have been marginalized by the mainstream media and their own parties, and have not a snowball’s chance as far as I can see.
I do hope that you are aware of Project Mockingbird and Cointelpro programs conducted in the past by the U.S. of A. government. I do hope that you are aware of the history of CIA covert support for drug running, as revealed by the late Gary Webb. Are you aware of “Project Northwoods”? If not, you are going into battle missing crucial pieces of armor. I would be amazed if you did not know about the Chilean coup sponsored by the CIA. The list goes on.
If you don’t understand, at a deep level, the notions of disinformation, honey pots, false flags, poisoning the well, the big lie, agents provocateurs, and related concepts, you can make no sense of politics, either historically or in the current context. I do hope that you have more than a passing familiarity with such ideas. It is crucial that all activists do have this understanding. Otherwise, they get suckered time and again.
Rosemarie wrote: “One issue that I have with 9/11 conspiracy theorists is that they often seem to place a higher value on usa lives than the lives of those in other countries.”
Based on what you write here, I suspect you know little about the membership of 9/11 Truth. We are a mixed bag; some are right wing libertarians, some are liberals, many, such as myself, are humanists and socialists.
A noisy few are either mentally unbalanced or agents of disinformation. They are marginal, but damaging. The same thing, Cointelpro, occurred during the Vietnam war protests.
Many, many are scholars with very impressive credentials. Are you aware of the the scholarship of Dr. David Ray Griffin? Are you aware of the solid credential of Dr. Steven Jones? Are you familiar with the scholarship of Dr. Peter Dale Scott? Are you aware of the left-wing anti-war work of Dr. John McMurtry? How about Dr. Michael Keefer? Have you ever looked at the biography of humanist Barry Zwicker? Are you aware that the vast majority of major players and supporting players in the movement are anti-war in both weak and strong senses? Are you aware of the depth of talent in the movement? Why would you assume that those working on 9/11 Truth are unaware of the history of U.S. of A. imperialism? I assure you, this idea of yours that truth activists only care about deaths in the U.S. of A. is unsupportable. Why would you even make such a statement?
Sorry if my words sound harsh, but your claims on the lack of concern about foreign deaths shown by 9/11 truth activists are very annoying, and to me indicate that you posses a superficial acquaintance with the movement at best. My apologies if I am wrong.
By the way, the government line is also a conspiracy theory, but the weakest one around. It is not supported by any forensic evidence that has withstood scrutiny. If you want to be effective in your peace activism, get on board with 9/11 Truth - research the issues, meet with the mainstream scholars in the movement, read their works carefully, with an open mind. Read this collection, published by the prestigious publishing house Elsevier: 9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out, Vol. 1 (Paperback) by David Ray Griffin (Editor), Peter Dale Scott (Editor). You will certainly see a concern for all victims of imperialism, expressed by numerous authors.
Regards
Michael Zimmer
http://www.TheProgressiveMind.info
Well done, Mike. Excellent
Well done, Mike.
Excellent responses.
I do this from time to time. It is very important. Many who read it will be swayed.
If you have done the research, these kinds of exchanges can be boring, but it is well worth the effort.
I usually try to find the person's main objection (maybe there are two) and then answer that directly.
Seems her main one is this: “One issue that I have with 9/11 conspiracy theorists is that they often seem to place a higher value on usa lives than the lives of those in other countries.”
That may be all that is in the way between her and a much deeper understanding of the truth.
Since we all know that her statement is false, it is easy to answer this objection from several angles.
I have seen many people change their minds (or begin to) quite quickly once their main objection is answered.
Here are a couple of other very common ones: "The US gov't would never do that!" "The US gov't is too inefficient to do that!" "It would take thousands of people, how could they hide it?" "You don't understand how gov't works!" "How could they ever get all those explosives in the buildings?" "They just screwed up, happens all the time!" "You are a freakin' nut-job!" "It's the war that is important! 9/11 was six years ago!" etc.
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JFK on secrecy and the press