Apathy to 9-11 truth, is this due to lack of leadership?
juandelacruz2 Sat, 04/21/2007 - 6:05pm
9-11 truth exposes the US Govt as corrupt at the highest levels, knowledge of it is frightening in it's implications. If you believe in 9-11 truth, can you trust the executive branch, congress, the judiciary? Do you tell the cops, or the army? 9-11 truth forces you in a position where you lose all familiar references. You end up on your own wits and no clear leader to follow or guide you. Some people are OK with that, they figure the truth out for themselves or the best of it that they can get and run with it. Other people however could be shutting 9-11 knowledge out of their system as a consequence. Is a leader for 9-11 truth the missing ingredient to achieve that elusive critical mass?
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We've always...
Been a "leaderless movement." We've tried to lead by example. I don't think even if we wanted a "leader", we would be able to agree on who it should be. If a Presidential candidate ran on 9/11 Truth, I would consider calling them "leader" dependent on who it was. Other than that, the best you could do is be an organizer in your area, and be a "leader" in that sense. It is VERY hard to trust in this movement. Today's "leader" could be tomorrow's "space beamer." I try to judge people by their efforts.
"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."
Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton
for instance...
what if we had 'anointed' a leader who, before the bodies hit the floor, called the VT incident a Black Ops.
Let's remember something...
When someone is put forward as a "leader", it's generally the media that's doing it. Alex Jones is our leader, and Loose Change is our bible according to the media. It is further promoted by the "debunkers." For some reason, the "debunkers", and the media seem to work well together. Like peas and carrots.
"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."
Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton
Wadr, No
Alex Jones is the 9/11 Truth and Justice Movement's "leader" like Benedict Bush is the "leader" of our country.
I don't dislike Alex Jones (anymore), but he's not even close to being the leader of the movement. I would say that he is one of the leaders, I suppose. Kind of. But he is still way too radical for most people, imo. (I get comments like that all the time from people, most people I talk to, in fact, and I usually only somewhat disagree with them)
I also disagree with your suggestion that the media chooses the leader of a movement. It is the people in the movement that choose the leader. In this media-psychotic time in which we live, that could possibly change, maybe more, maybe less, but the media can only do so much without the masses' support.
If anyone is the de facto leader of our movement, it is probably David Ray Griffin at this point. With Steven Jones a close second. In most movements, as far as I've seen, there are usually several "leaders", and people group behind them with their support. And you basically see that occurring here, too, it just hasn't fully developed yet.
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Senior 9/11 Bureau Chief, Analyst & Correspondent
http://www.chico911truth.org/
"When the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box."
9/11 Truth -- The Path to Peace
Everyone can be a leader.....
....To take some words from Mahatma Gandhi “You must be the change you want to see in the world.” I can take a large dose of this message as well. We all gain inspiration and perspective from the actions and thoughts of others, I know in some ways I see some posters on here as leaders. I think to be very effective we should be a diffuse yet active form of local/regional leadership would be great (think of a more intelligent, non-violent, more connected “Fight Club” sort of movement) and from there if we could gain enough control of a certain sector (i.e. trucking/transportation, garbage men, UNIVERSITY students) this would be advantageous as well. I also think we should involve foreign publicity and assistance as well. THIS EVENT did happen to OUR country, and WE ALL (further generations too) will share in the potential renaissance of the truth coming out or terrible effects of the potential police and/or other false flag events. All that we really have to do (as a collective group) is to step up and have everyone participate! I mean think of the poll #s, Millions out on every 11th. If EVERYONE who truly has a ? about 9/11 (focusing on how much of a whitewash the original commission was, and how the majority of the families are feel disrespected and are asking ?s too could bring in a large # of participants) physically DID something on the 11th of every month we WILL be noticed. The truth is contagious, and when really compared with an unbiased mind, the official story WILL crumble, changing the mindset to receive the message I think is a key to success. To accept the reality of things people find it very hard to believe that they have been lied to and tricked for this long, as well as trust issues, idealism issues etc, for some these obstacles can be near insurmountable. To this dedication, patience, faith in the truth, and adaptive persistence will be our strengths to spreading the truth. If we consistently leave the fear, self doubt, and negativity on the shelf and realize that we are doing this for the good of our neighbor and countrymen we will secede. If you realized your neighbor’s house was on fire would you tell him? Same principle.
My point is simply we can all be leaders if we really want to be “the change you want to see in the world.” Any thoughts/ideas?
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." ---- Mark Twain
This desire for a leader is a sign of apathy
We are all our own leaders. We have common values that guide us. The founding fathers wanted us to be cynical of all leaders.
Our common values and insights will unite us. The leaders will follow.
Absolutely
Every "movement" ends up having one or more leaders. It's the natural way of things. As I've mentioned before, right now we have a few de facto leaders of the movement, whether they want to be, or not.
Eventually, one or more will step forward and take up the reigns of leadership. (usually unofficially 'voted' for as popular by people in the movement) Hopefully they will be good and effective and inspiring leaders. It's a thankless job, so I don't envy those who end up doing it. And, according to the "clay feet" 'syndrome', they won't be "perfect", or near perfect enough, and they will suffer for that, and be attacked, etc. That's also the nature of things.
Although I do kind of like the Greens theory of "leadership by all", it doesn't really work, imo. Same thing with consensus and modified consensus voting. Which is why the Greens are where they are at today. I wish it wasn't so, but that is my observation. (of course, there are "leaders" in the Greens, locally and otherwise, because, again, that is the nature of these types of things, more or less)
The 9/11 Truth and Justice Movement is still in its infancy, so these things haven't shaken out or coalesced yet.
----
Senior 9/11 Bureau Chief, Analyst & Correspondent
http://www.chico911truth.org/
"When the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box."
9/11 Truth -- The Path to Peace
Please take comfort in that
Please take comfort in that our movement is not in its infancy...we're actually nearing our "adolescence" and with puberty comes great changes. I'm very optimistic while nervous at the same time. Whenever progressive movements have smelt the scent of victory near, something horrible has happened to put us back in "our place". We need to forever be vigilant.
I don't like disagreeing with you
It is all a matter of definitions and such, of course, but I don't think we're nearing "adolescence".
I would agree with that level if, for example, most colleges and universities had (large-ish, active) 9/11 Truth groups on campus. But we're not even close to that, really.
In some ways we have a fairly progressive local community, and we only got a local group here last August. And our "membership" is less than 50, with about half of that regular meeting attendees (if we're lucky), and less than a handful of minimally active people. That in a community of about 100,000 +/- people. (or more if you count the out-lying county areas and the "tri-city area" -- the other two close cities don't even have local groups yet, and, in fact, I believe we're the only local group in a hundred mile area (semi-rural), as well, which would encompass at least 10 to 20 decent-sized cities)
So I would guesstimate that we have easily less than 1/2 of 1% real "support" right now. (if that)
And, from what I can tell, this is pretty standard country-wide, for the most part. (otherwise, for comparison, the (San Francisco, CA) Bay Area would have hundreds of thousands of people, instead of the several hundreds they have, and the same for Sacramento, etc.)
I'll give you "adolescence" at, say, 2%. (based on "critical mass" being somewhere between 5% and 10%)
It's irritating and frustrating to me that we're still at this level at this "late date", but it's pretty standard, I think. It's going to take a whole lot more patience than we've already given before we even start to see a real change. And the sooner people accept that and embrace it, the better off we will all be. (otherwise frustration and such starts taking a toll — and, of course, by "acceptance", I do not mean that we don't keep trying really hard and try to break some records, which I suggest we might already have — I know I would have liked to have seen the Animal Rights Movement with this kind of inertia 20 years ago)
----
Senior 9/11 Bureau Chief, Analyst & Correspondent
http://www.chico911truth.org/
"When the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box."
9/11 Truth -- The Path to Peace
Why "luminaries" are needed
"So I would guesstimate that we have easily less than 1/2 of 1% real 'support' right now. (if that)
And, from what I can tell, this is pretty standard country-wide, for the most part."
That is why, I think, more luminaries like Charlie Sheen are badly needed and why informing people with a lot of influence is of utmost importance.
I nominate David Ray
I nominate David Ray Griffin...
The implications of having a leader and not
Given the apparent infiltration by the 9-11 conspirators of the executive, legislative, media, and perhaps the judiciary as well, it would be unlikely that the truth movement can rely on available avenues in the political and legal system to seek a fair investigation and dispensation of justice.
You cannot rely on presidential or congressional elections, both parties cannot be trusted (the current Republican administration is implicated in 9-11, the previous Clinton/Democratic administration may have covered up the Oklahoma City bombing). You cannot tell the story to the media, there is a very effective news blackout on 9-11 truth. Can you run to the UN? I doubt they can help.
You can spread the truth to fellow citizens but who is in any position to act on this truth? Who can in fact pursue justice and effect positive change in the face of a coordinated, powerful and secretive entity?
Given the problem above, difficult choices will have to be taken, actions coordinated, finite resources will have to be allocated, losses and defeats analyzed and compensated for, victories replicated. In other words, a leader will have to lead the movement in order to achieve a desirable outcome.
Make no mistake, the other side is very well coordinated, has so much in resources available and even has secrecy on its side.
The reason I have arrived at this opinion is the observation that the US population while outwardly apathetic to knowledge per se, has demonstrated an ability to act emphatically when lead and told what to do. Unfortunately, that ability to act was demonstrated by the nationwide mobilization to execute two wars in distant lands (Afghanistan and Iraq)) which are not even in the best interest of US citizens in general. This mobilization was effected through clever deception and manipulation - very effective leadership from the dark side.
The truth movement can mobilize the population as well, but truth alone may not be enough, a leader must rise to the challenge. A leader hopefully who is committed to the truth and the interest of the general population.
What are the consequences of 9-11 truth failing to achieve real change in the system?
More than a century ago, the US entered the Philippines after declaring war on Spain. Under a false pretense US soldiers engaged Philippine soldiers and a full scale invasion ensued. Thousands of Philippine soldiers and civilians died. To this day, there has been no official apology for the invasion.
In the 1960's, the US entered Vietnam and under a false pretense engaged North Vietnam (as Rosie O said, Google Gulf of Tonkin). Thousands of US soldiers died, many, many more Vietnamese, maybe a million died. No apologies from the US for the war upto now.
Fast forward to 2003, the US invades Iraq under several false pretenses (Google Iraq WMD). Thousands of US soldiers dead, many, many thousands of Iraquis dead.
Nothing in US imperialist policies has changed in the last 100+ years.
The truth about the US administrations lying then engaging in wars has been out for a long, long time. Has this truth effected any change in policy or the system that perpetuates it? 9-11 truth may end up as an academic curiosity for future historians.
Real change may require concerted, deliberate, forceful action to pursue a clear and definite goal. Can this happen without leadership? In my opinion, not a chance.