Loose Change Guys vs. Mark Roberts - Part A
Chris Rose Sun, 12/17/2006 - 2:56pm
Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas debate Mark Roberts on government complicity in the events of September 11, 2001 here.
Interestingly Dylan admits that his movie contains serious flaws and even goes so far as to say LC is not a fair representation of the 9/11 Truth Movement. Instead he endorses 9/11 Press for Truth.
Worth a watch.
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good
"Dylan admits that his movie contains serious flaws and even goes so far as to say LC is not a fair representation of the 9/11 Truth Movement."
finally!!!
i never show Loose Change to people.
i.e.
The Pentagon Issue = RED HERRING!!!!
Todd Beamer
The 9/11 script is written that Todd Beamer graduated
from Los Gatos High School in 1987. Here is the 10
year reunion web page.
http://www.los-gatos.ca.us/los_gatos/assoc_clubs/lghs_alumni/87/reunion....
There is a list of predictions of where you will be in
1997. This was Todd Beamer's prediction: ...branding
cattle on a ranch in Ennis, Montana with Chris and
Brian.
I thought that it was a little odd that the 1987 Los
Gatos 10 year reunion web page would still be up and
running 9 years later so I did a who is search on the
domain (los-gatos.ca.us) and discovered that this
domain registration date was Wed Feb 05 09:07:59 GMT
2003.
So the domain was created in 2003 for a 1997
reunion!!!
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?whoistoken=0
WOW.......
that is weird.
It's one of many fake
It's one of many fake stories. They put out an awful lot of them.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-696990552796252094&hl=en
Ahh no, this video is a
Ahh no, this video is a wrapper for TV-Fakery - Nice Try Nico
I see it time to put the breaks on spreading the truth for now
Is truth spreading too rapidly? Is it because the holiday season is upon us & we must put things on hold while our "powers that be" take a break?
There is nothing wrong with the Loose Change, 2nd Ed. That "Press for Truth" video is "incompetence theory" with a few hints & clues about LIHOP.
Photographic evidence of the Pentagon shows that Flight 77 flew through a small hole in the first floor. Impossible! As for Shanksville, you cannot reconstruct 95% of Flight 93, or ID any passengers of that plane which supposedly smashed into the Earth at 580 mph. Furthermore, WTC-7 & the towers came down with explosives. Nothing can ever change any these facts that indicate 9/11 was an inside job.
Can we at least get back to the truth after the New Year?
The material in "Press For Truth" could be used to prove MIHOP
but it is presented in a way that makes it all sound like government incompetence.
yeah i have heard korey rove
yeah i have heard korey rove say in an interview that they put errors in the movie in order for people to do their own research. not good.
Never heard that.
Never heard that.
Rowe Admitted Intentional Errors in An Interview
You can read it here:
ROWE: What I encourage people to do is go out and research it themselves. We don't ever come out and say that everything we say is 100 percent. We know there are errors in the documentary, and we've actually left them in there so that people discredit us and do the research for themselves -- the B52 (remarked to have flown into the Empire State Building), the use of Wikipedia, things like that. We left them in there so people will want to discredit us and go out and research the events yourself and come up with your own conclusions.
He's right...
Well that doesn't seem real smart. To intentionally leave errors in the "documentary" and then boast about it?
Wow, that went horribly.
Wow, that went horribly. This is the problem with trying to argue physical evidence. The shills are old hat at the magic bullet trick; they get their talking points and roll with it. Another propaganda tactic is the "appeal to authority", suggesting that prominent officials and scientists are incorruptible and that to dispute their version of events is to call them liars. With no offense intended to Dylan or Jason, I think they should consider trying to veer the conversation away from physical evidence toward subjects like war games, PNAC, drugs, put-options, the dancing Israelis and so on, instead of playing the game according to their rules.
Prioritize the questions
I have to say i was disappointed. I think they should have asked the HARDBALL questions first. The ever changing DOD intercept story,Mineta's testomoney,etc.
Throwing arab names around to the average american they may as well be speaking chinese.
Yes Mark Roberts hogged the interview,and the host was sided towards the offical fairy tale.
There's going to be another debate? Come on guys put that bonehead in his spot.
The NIST,Popular Mechanics,and the 9/11 commission refused to debate team liberty.Why?
The ten second Mt. Saint Hellens freefall should be enough to convince anyone with an IQ over 35.You can't change the laws of physic's. Identified DNA? Where did they get the DNA to match it?
I agree about most of what
I agree about most of what you're saying but this isn't about proving anything on telly--this is about power, image and influence.
By that standard the guys were kicking. The whole point of this being on film is not to give Dylan and Jason a chance to present their case--its to try to humiliate them and show everyone what loonies they are. To "win" all Dylan and Jason have to do is keep their cool, and speak well enough that people will either start to think or at least sympathyise with the truth movement. That they did in spades. Mark and the other git "lost" because they failed to rattle the guys or make them look foolish.
You'll be less disapointed when you remember what the game is in this context.
Now I predict Dylan and Jason will be invited by MSM LESS because of this--that is how they will punish competence. They were expecting a circus and someone, somewhere is not very happy they didn't get one....
Man...
I am forever reminded of that Seinfeld episode where George did the exact opposite of what he would normally do...
If you say the exact opposite of everything you do, you get the truth.
If this last month has proven anything, it's that this movement is getting antsy, and wants results.
"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."
Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member
"How can you ignore the
"How can you ignore the physicl evidence when your whole case is based on having already ignored the physical evidence for the last five years..."
Do you realize that this statement doesn't make any sense? If it were true that Jon or some other person who believes the US is complicit ignored the evidence for five years, if it were true that he or she'd built a whole case solely by ignoring the evidence, it would be very easy to see how he or she could continue to ignore such evidence.
Just what exactly are you trying to say?
You're funny. You're not
You're funny. You're not using any logic to attack the movement. You attempt to but in doing so you contradict yourself. Fuqtard.
So if a group of people is "fanatical" enough to "ignore" evidence somehow they're just going to self-destruct? When individuals are fanatical over something they just don't "self-destruct". Come on retard. Put a damper on your freakin' limbic system and try using your frontal lobes if you have any.
"... In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." (Galileo Galilei, 1564 - 1642)
OIL IS OBSOLETE - WAKE UP - YOU'VE BEEN LIED TO, AGAIN!
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/
Debate Off Camera
Debate Off Camera
I could use
a Little help spreading some much needed truth in this local message board from ABC news affiliate.
http://forums.go.com/abclocal/WTVD/forum?forumID=161
threads are "Those crazy Traitors"
"Theological figurehead for Al Qaeda critical? What will happen?"
and basically anything you see with "Nunya" on it.
Message boards such as this which are in a Red State (NC) Mainstream Media News boards are really what we need to attack hard.
Here (911Blogger) we are preaching to the choir with a couple Anon nutbags thrown in.
The above message board is exactly the opposite.
Anyway if you get a chance spread some truthlove there.
Red? Blue?
Purple?
Who cares!
9/11 is NOT a partisan issue!
We have to stop thinking in those terms.
They WANT us to frame everything in terms of "2 sides" or left vs. right, repbulican vs. democrat. Means nothing, both parties are guilty on 9/11, Hillary=Bush, don't buy the false left/right paradigm!
I fully agree
and I said so on that site several times.
This is NOT a Repub. Vs Dem. issue, HOWEVER every single person arguing with me which are ALL republican that is the first thing they say and they keep repeating it continuously.
So unfortunately IT IS a partisan issue, it SHOULD NOT be I totally agree, this is clearly an AMERICAN ISSUE.
Im not buying it, THEY ARE, that is the whole point.
Get it?
I would be very interested
I would be very interested to know what percentage of democrats and what percentage of republicans comprise the 9/11 movement. Of course you would assume it is mostly liberals, but I think you'd be surprised...
We should all be NEITHER!
Once you join the Truth Movement, your "party" becomes irrelevant! Join the greens, libertarians, or constitutionalists, or just declare yourself an independent, but don't take part in the stupidity of partisan battles!
Check this out...
http://www.neitherparty.org/index.html
I like their news letter. Very informative.
The foundation
of the TRUTH movement is exactly what it says, TRUTH and as we all know truth has nothing to do with politics in anyway shape form or fashion.
both Rethugs and Dems alike LIE 95% of the time.
this really is an American issue, unfortunately the vast majority of Rethuglicans have been so wildly brainwashed by the MSM that they are virtually braindead and a decent percentage of Dems are not far behind.
Shame on you, anonymous. You
Shame on you, anonymous. You have no idea what you're talking about. Why don't you anonymous posters sign up and create a screen name? Your ignorant comments make all anonymous users look bad.
"Your ignorant comments make
"Your ignorant comments make all anonymous users look bad."
Too true. Unfortunately, considering the trolling problems, the burden of proof that you are sincere is on all anonymous users, not us.
Great job, nunyabiz!
I followed that forum link you presented and thought you did a great job with the original post and your many responses. Encourage everyone to read it too. I don't know what else I could have added.
Fred W
Never ever forget that many
Never ever forget that many people are sheep!
Which means that one person with high quality posts stands no chance to win in front of the herd, because nobody in the herd will move, they will stay together and mock the lonely poster.
That is why he needs people to fight with him: many people will only accept to leave their herd for another herd.
Thank You Phredo
I did my best but like Anon just stated the herd mentality is impossible to overcome.
I feel like im playing dodgeball with just me on my team against 100 Neofascist.
About 10 truthers could possibly turn the tide.
Wow!
This is my home town. Time to kick ass and take names!
Gary
911truthnc.org
“it is possible to fool all the people all the time—when government and press cooperate.” George Seldes - "legendary investigative reporter"
Thanks
for posting Gary.
Thats not a debate off
Thats not a debate off camera, dont be stupid.
Thats not a debate off
Thats not a debate off camera, dont be stupid:
I love...
How Ronny and Mark are making blanket statements about the movement. Funny.
"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."
Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member
i wish these guys would try
i wish these guys would try and debunk building 7 and foreknowledge (pheonix memo, etc)
As much as I like Dylan and
As much as I like Dylan and Jason and Korey, I think they are not the best representatives of our movement. Not that they are "bad" representatives, but they sound like what they are: relatively insecure young guys (RIYG). I think that David Ray Griffin, Webster Tarpley, etc. would be much better at steering the conversation in more effective directions instead of taking the bait. This is exactly the reason that ghastly woman at Democracynow! chose the LooseChange guys on her 5th anniversary show instead of someone older and more confident.
"This is exactly the reason
"This is exactly the reason that ghastly woman at Democracynow! chose the LooseChange guys on her 5th anniversary show instead of someone older and more confident."
unfortunately you are right, but i also think its a case of ignorance. Amy goodman probably hasnt even seen Press for Truth, loose change was probably the first conspiracy thing she was exposed to so in her mind (since she is obviously very willfully ignorant on the subject) they DO in fact represent the 911 truth movement. Its a double edged sword that Loose change became as popular as it did, we need to get 911 press for truth into the same level of popularity.
I showed both my mom and dad
I showed both my mom and dad Press for Truth and they both thought something was definitely fishy about 9/11. If everyone was shown Press for Truth, there'd be no difficulty in getting another investigation.
They did a hell of alot
They did a hell of alot better than they did during the Popular Mechanics interview, so credit where credit is due, mate.
Yes, there are more experienced people in the movement, but they weren't there. The guys did the best with what they had, and it was a hell of alot better than last time. Learning on their feet, they are--I think they took constructive critizism to heart after the PM interview and I respect that.
And how do you think people like Griffin got to be such good speakers? He wasn't born that way--he had to pay his dues. And that's what the guys are doing--and-bonus!- for a good cause.
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.
I agree 100%. Korey handled
I agree 100%. Koery handled himself much better this time. I would like to hear Dylan speak up more. It would be great if they read up on propaganda technique's so they could nail people in the future who attempt to pull heartstrings by appealing to emotions rather than strong logic. Ultimately I would prefer to have 100% of the debates handled by truthers who have trained for debating. When your side has all the evidence backing it you just need to be able to present it coherently.
"... In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." (Galileo Galilei, 1564 - 1642)
OIL IS OBSOLETE - WAKE UP - YOU'VE BEEN LIED TO, AGAIN!
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/
That's what I was thinking.
This interview was a joke. It reminds me of a dog chasing his tail. It seems no one wants to talk about the obvious demolition of WTC7. Even the demolition of the twin towers. My God believe your eyes. You can see the bombs going off. What about the put options or the forewarnings that Bush and Rice ignored? What about all the proven lies in the Omission Report? What about the omissions in said report? What about motives and means. What about the war games. What about Bush's non-response in the classroom at Brooker Elementary. What about the anthrax attacks? What about the shredding of our constitution and bill of rights? I could go on indefinitely. I don't get these people who defend the official report. The house is on fire and they strike a match. Are they all deaf, dumb and blind?
Amen
Exactly Dude!
We are not stupid. We shouldn't worry about the small stuff - which is what this interview is.
People know the facts that they need to know and more are waking up as time goes on.
Get out - live life - and pass on the truth as we go.
http://www.mime11.com
"Heh!"
Sign your name, Hero.
Since this will be my last post...
... before I "get a life", would you mind laying out "the real truth" for me, Hero?
Let's see...
The U.S. Dollar is NOT on the verge of disintegration.
The Global War Of Terror, is nobel.
The Bill of Rights, course toilet paper.
Habeas corpus, is for pansies.
The U.S.A., is #1! Fuck Ya!
Did I miss anything?
Don't forget that torture is
Don't forget that torture is fun for the whole family!!
The Dark Ages are making a come back baby!! Maybe we'll get to have public burnings again!! WOO HOO!!!
"... In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." (Galileo Galilei, 1564 - 1642)
OIL IS OBSOLETE - WAKE UP - YOU'VE BEEN LIED TO, AGAIN!
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/
wait a minute. YOU are
wait a minute. YOU are telling HER to get a life? pretty ironic. she is her because she believes in the cause. you are here precisely because you HAVE NO LIFE.
Too much trouble to name a
Too much trouble to name a few of those?
need to be more prepared
Dylan and Korey,
It's hard to knock you guys as you usually do a good job with these guys but you need to be more prepared. When Roberts brought up the subject of Arab "terrorists" you should have countered with the fact that many of the acts attributed to arabs have been false-flag operations not unlike 911 itself. The London bombing? Al CIAda. The SPain bombing? Al CIAda again. Remebre Operation Gladio and the 1980 Italian train bombing? NATO?CIA act to discredit the liberal party. Let's also not forget the 2 british soldiers that were caught wearing aranb clothing and proceeded to machine-gun down street bystanders only to be caught by Iraqi's and exposed for the provetuers there were. Let's also not forget the USS LIberty and the Achille Lauro incidents. Then there is the King David hotel bombing.
And what does ANY suppossed arab pilots on 911 have to do with the controlled demolitions of the towers of WTC7? Guys, you should have either shown a video of WTC7 of sequential photos of the miraculous "collapse". DO not let the likes of Roberst filibuster and focus on issues that are trivial.
Let's learn and be bettter prepared next time.
"Let's learn and be bettter
"Let's learn and be bettter prepared next time."
I thought we established this after the debate on Democracynow! a few months ago. I think what it comes down to is that we need older, more confident people debating these shills. When are we going to see David Ray Griffin on one of these debate programs? Why is it always these young kids? (no offense, I don't mean to come down on their age, but they come off as somewhat insecure, as I stated in my above post). It's no longer the 60s. Young people nowadays aren't as "intellectually mature" as they were during the Vietnam era. And they certainly aren't nearly as confident (generally, of course).
God, the London bombing. I
God, the London bombing. I think there's still a very small "chance" 9/11 wasn't an inside job. But the 9/9 London bombing was 100% an inside job, no doubt.
They were better prepared,
They were better prepared, you anonymous git. Either you're new or you missed the Popular Mechanics interview--showing you're not paying attention enough for your opinion to count.
Get a name.
Wow...
They are STILL focused on Loose Change, and they are cherry picking some of the more fringe of the movement...
When Dylan, admirably, brought up Press For Truth, they turned the conversation back around to their talking points.
"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."
Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member
"They are STILL focused on
"They are STILL focused on Loose Change, and they are cherry picking some of the more fringe of the movement...
When Dylan, admirably, brought up Press For Truth, they turned the conversation back around to their talking points."
and you know DAMN well that if either of these guys saw press for truth they would walk away with many questions and feel angry towards our government. Unless you are the type who thinks the middle east should be a bombed out parking lot, its very hard to come away from that movie thinking there wasnt a massive coverup.
Now let me see....What film
Now let me see....What film has done more to raise awareness of 9/11 being an inside job?
1 Loose Change -- which says 9/11 was an inside job
....or
2 Press For Truth -- which doesn't
No contest.
Who's...
Divorced themselves from the idea that when 2,973+ are brutally murdered, someone should be held accountable? To my knowledge, that idea is what gave this movement life. Loose Change just gave it more members.
"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."
Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member
what's gone
is the sense with which this little sod was born - notice he doesn't mention Tarpley - I dare any anti-911-truth wise aleck to call out Webster G. Tarpley to a public debate - Tarpley would shred his first straw man, stuff him with his last red herring and leave him for the wolves of reason to pick his pathetic bones - I dare this little sod - dare him down to his short hairs!
Tarpley
I'd be happy to discuss conspiracy fantasies with Tarpley on 'Hardfire.' If he trots out the thoroughly debunked nonsense he recycled in his book, you won't like this debate very much.
You're ignorant. The people
You're ignorant. The people you cited are still working for the movement. They've just decided to go about it from their own angle. Hrmmm isn't that how science works?
"... In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." (Galileo Galilei, 1564 - 1642)
OIL IS OBSOLETE - WAKE UP - YOU'VE BEEN LIED TO, AGAIN!
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/
Nice!
They did a good job, and kudos for mentioning 911 Press for Truth.
I'll bet their new movie is going to be a good one..
Where is the passion?
Jason and Dylan seem far less passionate. Perhaps this is a calculated attempt on their part to seem more mature. To me they appear as if they've lost their edge. Especially Dylan.
The two old guys seem condescending and disingenuous. Very calculating in the topics they choose to discuss (and not discuss).
Why didn't Jason and Dylan bring up WTC7? Don't know.
After admitting that LC contains some flaws, why didn't Dylan clarify whether or not LC: Final Cut would set the record straight?
Are these guys laying a trap for these two old geezers? Do they want to appear like lame ducks as a set up to the smack down to come when Final Cut is dropped? Could be.
Are Dylan and Jason a whole helluva lot smarter than they let on during this debate? Hard to say.
Henny penny am I starting to sound like Rumsfeld?
". Especially Dylan. Looks
". Especially Dylan. Looks like he's on Prozac or something."
i've heard that the loose change crew smokes massive amounts of marijauan. Sometimes when i see them they appear very stoned and sometimes not.
from my own experiment marijuana tends to make one worse at debating
loose change is good
they did pretty well, but they should not take the bait and discuss details. they talked about shankesville, and the idiot hosts taled about 95% percent of the plane was recovered.
they should respond by saying a pic is worth a thousand words and all thats there is an empty ditch. The gov lied about WMD's, so their reports are incredible. They should then move on to building 7 and the flaws in the nist report pointed out by jones and griffin.,
Going over the details of the hijackers biography is a waste of time. Just do what griffin does........."no building has ever collapsed due to fire..........10 things that can be easily be explained w/ explsosives and cant be explained by anything else......symettry, freefall speed, etc.
Nevertheless Loose change is the best 9/11 movie in terms of converting people, it might be more easily debunkable (some parts, but for most its the best intro to truth bc it covers so much and is so well made.
"After admitting that LC
"After admitting that LC contains some flaws, why didn't Dylan clarify whether or not LC: Final Cut would set the record straight?
Are these guys laying a trap for these two old geezers? Do they want to appear like lame ducks as a set up to the smack down to come when Final Cut is dropped? Could be. "
im beginning to doubt the power Final Cut is promised to delivery.
alex jones and bermas have made little secret references to their "big plan" to bring the truth. Im assuming AJ also thinks Final Cut will be the end all of 9/11 movies.
and no offense to dylan, but i can tell yall right now that it will not be very convinving to the mass populace if its still narrated in the same way. It needs an authoritative sounding narrator not someone who sounds like they are in highschool.
All I know is that I want to
All I know is that I want to see a debate where everyone involved is around the same age. Dylan and Jason should NOT be at the forefront of this movement. In fact, NOBODY should be at the forefront because any effective movement for change HAS NO LEADERS. But we DO need spokespeople to represent us. Dylan and Jason seem to have appointed themselves this task and it's time that it be revoked from them and handed over to Dr. Griffin and Mr. Tarpley. I was actually embarrassed for Jason and Dylan while watching the video. They simply don't have enough of a command of the English language, they are obviously insecure and need to perform better research. Their research is so imcomplete that if I was an even more suspcious person I'd question whether or not they are infiltrators themselves! (don't worry, I'm not at that point yet) Why has our movement allowed these kids to represent us, almost wholesale?
Hey, "truther", you go
Hey, "truther", you go debate Mark Roberts. We never appointed ourselves to anything.
Thanks Dylan
Dylan,
I remember the 1960s peace movement leaders. Yes, some were very well poised. Most of them were from elite schools and at least one (I know of) was CIA funded.
You guys have done a great job. Just continue to be true to yourselves and don't worry about the critics. In my opinion, LTW is more important than the grey haired truth movement leaders, as older people are set in their ways and unlikely to be moved even by DRG's sober scholarship. You are speaking to a generation whose opinions are still fluid, and that is where hope lies.
Dylan
Glad to see your checking this site.Yes there are those here that can be harsh to say the least.
Yes you can't turn it into a shouting match.Bring a list of ALL the unanswered questions.I hate when they say it is disrespectfull to the victims families when it is there wish to have these questions answered.
I remember when i first seen your film.I was looking into the cover up of JFK. Loose change was enough to convince me,and now in looking further into it. THERE'S NO DOUBT ! You do your country proud Thank you!
You could always turn down
You could always turn down opportunities to debate, direct guys like Mark Roberts to others like Paul Thompson.
The thing is that the media is appointing you to a leadership position, but you don't have to accept the power they're bestowing on you.
Twas a Setup...Lousy host
That debate was a total setup by the host Ronald...Neither Dylan or Jason had a chance in hell of touching the most important subjects like 7WTC, the detonations, eyewitness accounts, the blackboxes, the NORAD standown, etc. etc.
Ronald, the host, really showed his true colors when he blindly insisted that the laws of science were not broken on 9/11, especially when he and Mark falsely insisted that aluminum glows bright yellow and orange when melted...not to mention the fact that the aluminum siding right next to the pouring metal was perfectly intact.
I think the highlight was at the very end during Dylan's citing of Bill Doyle's quote about how the victims' families still think it's a coverup.
"Neither Dylan or Jason had
"Neither Dylan or Jason had a chance in hell of touching the most important subjects"
Of course not. Their victory is that they kept their heads. Do not underestimate the message this sends about the Truth movement...
Host's true Colors
You appear unable to comprehend that I am the same host who debated Les Jamieson back in July and I continue to regard the conspiracy fantasies as utter nonsense. Jason and Dylan understood all of that going in. In five years of screaming, the fantasists have not produced a shred of evidence. Griffin and Jones can't "debunk" the NIST report: they are charlatans; the NIST report was produced by over 200 qualified researchers. Instead of presenting the same recycled canards, why not attempt to learn a bit of what Mark Roberts knows?
Remember, we learned that Dylan's and Jason's beliefs are unfalsifiable. Mark's views and my own can be falsified by evidence. The conspiracists don't have any.
Evidence?
Highly asymmetrical damage does not cause highly symmetrical collapse. That's evidence.
"charlatan" n.: A person who makes elaborate, fraudulent, and often voluble claims to skill or knowledge; a quack or fraud. (See picture of Ronald Wieck).
e
"The truth shall make you free." Why not make the truth free? We live on a priceless blue pearl, awash in a universe of fire and ice. Cut the crap.
Proof
I was going to ask you for evidence, but we both get the joke. Apparently, I wasn't there when I made those "elaborate, fraudulent, and often voluble claims to skill or knowledge." We can agree that you made it all up. Come to think of it, everything your side maintains is similarly fictitious.
OMG....Where do you guys get
OMG....Where do you guys get off.?What a sad bunch. Cut the guys some slack.
Ralph Schoenman and Mya Shone should be the peeps to debate Wieck and his sidekick on the history of the putative hijackers.
Check out their incredible radio archive at http://takingaim.info/
These young men
Opened the book on 9/11.There efforts should be applauded. There movie has fueled the movement,and opened more eye's than ANY other.
They fordged the sword,it's up to us to polish it.
Damned straight. And when
Damned straight.
And when critizism is needed it should be accurate and CONSTRUCTIVE.
point for point. i wanted to
point for point.
i wanted to be civil and not interrupt. i had about ten pages of information in front of me, and i hardly got to address any of it.
we tried bringing up WTC7, and they steered away.
final cut will set the record straight. i don't care what they, or you guys on here, think in the interim. we've busted our asses for this movement, and it seems all we get in return is bullshit comments like "these kids are insecure"
and you all wonder why we haven't gotten anything done as a movement.
Lot of armchair quarterbacks here.
Your work is very appreciated by many people here, Dylan. People (including me) have very high hopes for "Final Cut."
Just ignore these sad
Just ignore these sad arnchair critics Dylan.....good job, man -- i look forward to the second half.
One of the most anticipated internet films, ever... "Final Cut"
"Insecure"? My ass. It takes a lot of guts, integrity, self control and a deep sense of 'security' in ones' position, to NOT clock one of those patronizing nitwits in the head. (Their pants are on fire, and yet they would act offended if you threw water on them. At this point, I doubt I'd even piss on their velcro loafers.)
e
"The truth shall make you free." Why not make the truth free? We live on a priceless blue pearl, awash in a universe of fire and ice. Cut the crap.
Thanks to you both!
There's no need to be defensive guys- you have put the Truth Movement on the map, and I expect that you'll be well remembered when the dust settles. Thanks again for your continued efforts!
debate
Dylan. For every vocal critic who criticizes you there are a thousand (or thousands) like myself quietly supporting you. Like the thousands of Americans (and Canucks like myself) who have burned and handed out copies of your video I have seen the impact. It is almost unanimous among people I have shared the video with that they question or doubt the official story. And if I interpreted your message correctly that was your intention. I believe you are committed to your beliefs and I just want to tell you, Don't get discouraged and don't let the critics get you down. Think of what MLK and Ghandi and others who went against the power and prevailing wisdom had to face every day and look how their stories turned out. And don't think this is going to be easy, as long as we are living the middle-class dream we are not going to "rise up against the establishment."
thanks everybody. i'm just
thanks everybody. i'm just doing my best to keep up, and grow as both a researcher and a person. that's really all it comes down to.
and i really enjoyed press for truth. there's really no denying its implications.
Thanks Dylan.
"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."
Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member
Dylan
You appeared as if you had an ace in the hole. I eagerly await Final Cut.
Fight the power!
"we've busted our asses for
"we've busted our asses for this movement, and it seems all we get in return is bullshit comments like "these kids are insecure""
Never mind the bollocks!
Both your preformances were a GREAT improvement over the PM interview--it showed and it sends a message that Truthers can keep their heads. That inspires confidence and interest. I said it earlier in this forum but in case you missed it: you were not invited to present your case. You were invited to be made fools of. The fact that it didn't turn into a circus and that wanker Roberts had to actually reason with you calmly was a victory. "Winning" in these situations is good presentation--as for arguing the evidence you don't have time to get to ALL of it anyway. Just continue doing what you did--debate thoroughly what DOES come up.
Good job--but I say that later in this forum...
"Bugger this; I want a better world."
Listen, let's face it.
Listen, let's face it. These guys aren't brilliant. I'd eat a bar of soap if they got above a 1200.
1200?
Is that a reference to some kind of standardized test, like an SAT or something? Would you believe there are those among us who've earned post-grad degrees, published significant works, collaborated with professionals around the world and have never taken on of those tests? What's your point?
Great Debate Louder Than Words
Good job Avery and Bermas, this was a very civil debate. Your opponent was very capable. Something I have yet to see from the official story supporters.
t shirt design contest
http://thecafeclash.com/2006/12/16/cafe-clash-domination-round-6
one of the choices is "9/11 Inside job" vote on it. (it's already winning...)
ahhh...
and the haters come to play. can't you guys ever say something productive?
Dylan, I'm no hater...
When do expect the Final Cut to be released?
spring 2007, american and
spring 2007, american and international theaters.
Dylan--Play your strongest hand
Unfortunately, appearance matters in debates, and older people like Griffin, Tarpley, and Barrett, with their age and credentials, carry more weight in public debate. That's not putting you down, it's just the way it is.
What about considering lobbying for these older brothers when a debate opportunity comes up, and put energy where you're strengths are. That's just common sense. (Griffin, Tarpley and Barrett, for example, don't make movies, that's not their area)
I'm not saying don't do public appearances, just be selective, and work on the areas you have the most confidence. Obviously you have a gift with your film production, go with that and make the Final Cut a giant truth bomb! You've got major support out here!
That off camera video is
That off camera video is interesting... I get the distinct impression they guy (moderator) was pulling a psych job on you (1980 Presidential Election - "It's Over").
Don't let those people get to you... You three have earned enormous respect in the movement...
Pay no attention to the haters... Everyone else loves you guys
You guys...
Are CIA shills remember?
As opposed to say... a couple of young kids that decided they would put a movie together that tries to answer the questions that those who should, REFUSE TO DO...
Damn CIA shills... ;)
Damn, growing up, CIA shills.
"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."
Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member
I want to thank you for all the hard work
and time you have put into your films and the movement. I look forward to seeing LC Final Cut.
In the area of constructive criticism, I would say refer to the government theory as just that, the government theory (or story) and NOT as the official theory. And hammer away at the strongest points, like WTC 7, that's what I do.
Kudos for giving props to 9/11:Press for Truth, I recommend that film to the older crowd and women first and LC to the younger crowd first.
We really need to find a better way to reach the 20-somethings and high schoolers that are going to be tremendously impacted by the planned endless war on terror. Right now I think that LC is the best way to do this, so thanks again.
Ignore the haters, they only make themselves look bad and want to bring you down to their level.
Keep up the great work, we are winning!
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
I hope that you and yours are all well, and that you all will be able to enjoy the holidays.
"out of their league"?
Wait a minute... two mealymouthed nobodies defending a most astonishing lie to coverup domestic treason, mass murder... and subsequent war crimes which have piled human bodies high into a stinking mountain of rot vs. some young men with the guts to take on a fight (in words and digital media only).... where the opponent hasn't even the slightest clue how little respect and patience they are due?
Again, you boys behaved like stand up men... where those slimy shits should have the chairs kicked out from under them. Good for you.
"The truth shall make you free." Why not make the truth free? We live on a priceless blue pearl, awash in a universe of fire and ice. Cut the crap.
Temper, temper
You must try to keep in mind that you don't know what you are talking about. None of your puerile fantasies can survive the slightest bit of scrutiny. The lies are all told by your side. You have absolutely nothing to support your fabrications. No structural engineers, avionics techs, or demolition experts take your nonsense seriously. Your Impossibly Vast Conspiracy remains embarrassingly implausible. You people are totally devoid of critical thinking skills and you lack intellectual curiosity.
Troll Alert! At least
Troll Alert!
At least you're using a name...
Troll?
I never understand this business of calling people who reject your fantasies "trolls." Why do you want to waste time bouncing your factoids off each other? Shouldn't you attempt to show a doubter what you actually have? Spending all my time with people who agree with me strikes me as dull as hell.
Out of their league? Maybe
Out of their league? Maybe as far as being a professional bullshitter is concerned.
"... In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." (Galileo Galilei, 1564 - 1642)
OIL IS OBSOLETE - WAKE UP - YOU'VE BEEN LIED TO, AGAIN!
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/
re: '93 wtc bombing...
T H E N E W Y O R K T I M E S
Thursday October 28, 1993 Page A1
"Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart Bomb Used in Trade Center Blast"
http://prisonplanet.com/the_world_trade_towers_bombing.html
THE '93 WTC ATTACKS: Al QAEDA/CIA OPERATIVES & THE FBI
(33:38 min)
The CIA connection to the bombers of the World Trade Center in 1993----how all of them, except the the FBI informant planted in the group, had been on the CIA payroll in Afghanistan fighting the Soviets before they settled in the New York area. Examining events involving entrapment of FBI infiltrated groups where then FBI informant planted on so-called terrorist groups is actually the person who organises and is the key individual in the commission of the crime. The CIA techniques on Psychological Operations for Guerilla Warfare. In short how our government creates "terrorists" and crimes for their political agenda. Joseph A. Calhoun, broadcast journalist, (He contributed to the Academy Award winning documentary "The Panama Deception")
Click to watch...
http://www.documentaries.ws/1/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.226
___________________
"I'm so sick of arming the world, then sending troops over to destroy the fucking arms, you know what I mean? We keep arming these little countries, then we go and blow the shit out of them. We're like the bullies of the world, y'know. We're like Jack Palance in the movie Shane, throwing the pistol at the sheepherder's feet.
'Pick it up.'
'I don't wanna pick it up, Mister, you'll shoot me.'
'Pick up the gun.'
'Mister, I don't want no trouble. I just came downtown here to get some hard rock candy for my kids, some gingham for my wife. I don't even know what gingham is, but she goes through about ten rolls a week of that stuff. I ain't looking for no trouble, Mister.'
'Pick up the gun.'
(He picks it up. Three shots ring out.)
'You all saw him - he had a gun.'"
~Bill Hicks -- still relevant:
http://www.truthring.org/?p=2968
Everyone should check those out
thanks
What always makes me want to
What always makes me want to bang my head on a piano is the Loose Change's crew insistance on minutia.
Bringing up the Atta dufflebag/Nissan car finds was good, as it shifted more toward real evidence, not this
Pentagon hole/Flight 93 debris argument stuff. I've longed believed that Flight 93, the passengers and hijackers were always in that Shanksville hole. It was good to see them admit LC has a lot of dubious contentions and that 9/11 Press For Truth is the best solid documentary out there.
The problem is, you dont have many researchers that seek out both sides...I'd love to see someone as knowlegable as Mark Roberts work with say, Webster Tarpley, Nafeez Ahemed, Peter Scott Dale, etc.
on figuring out a real timeline.
The problem is "debunkers" would never see eye to eye with "conspiracy theorists", and truthers sometimes
feel that anything thats from the official story is bogus. What about people who evenly look at BOTH sides of the evidence. I found what Mark Roberts said about Flight 93 to be very accurate.
C'mon man...
That's a little uncalled for... Ronny and Mark clearly tried to drive the topic of discussion to stay on the talking points they were comfortable talking about. Secondly... Mark Roberts did not sufficiently explain the 8 mile debris field, or for that matter, the contradicting accounts given by Cheney, etc... in that regard. Thirdly, it takes courage to put yourself in the spotlight.
"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."
Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member
Don't waste too much energy
Don't waste too much energy on this one, Jon--its just more "pockybot-age". Expect little coherence.
MarK Roberts appealled to
MarK Roberts appealled to emotions for many of his arguments which is not using facts to back up an arguement. I guess you tend to use emotions rather than logic. I can't see any other reason you would like Roberts.
"... In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." (Galileo Galilei, 1564 - 1642)
OIL IS OBSOLETE - WAKE UP - YOU'VE BEEN LIED TO, AGAIN!
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/
Oh yeah, the WTC 1993 thing...
I think Mark Roberts was out of his league in trying to explain away the WTC 1993 plot. He pulled a 911myths.com style of denial, in pretty much saying "yeah but, what really does that prove?"
Burmas is right, a lot of these arent so much "inside jobs" ala the 9/99 Russian FSB attacks, but
provocatuered events like many of the IRA bombings.
Anyways, I am extremely curious/excited about final Cut(I think it shouldnt even be called Loose Change to be honest)
Man, if it goes into the real story of the hijackers, Pakistan's deep complicity, etc it will be one heck of a documentary.
Loose Change Crew Rocks
Dylan, Korey,Jason..
You guys are three of the most important people in the world !!! No joke !!! You guys will have a movie about your work and your struggle one day....played by some talented actors..I'm sure about that. Am very grateful for your work !!!!!!!
Umm. I don't think the
Umm. I don't think the movie would be as exciting as the Woodward Bernstein Watergate investigation. Now Christopher Bollyn, he's going through some shit. Unidentifiable authorities with guns were patrolling outside his house, and at one point came onto his lawn and tasered him in front of his wife and son. Bollyn is doing the serious investigating.
Forget the debate.
Forget the debate. No one is going to walk away from a public media shootout and convert to the other side. Dylan and Jason spoke from their heart unlike Mister Roberts who simply recited the corporate line and litany. Of all the 9/11 videos available today, I still recommend THE vanguard: Loose Change. It provokes and invokes and most important of all, it creates a starting point within us all to start questioning the official story. Keep fighting the good fight.
You're right. It is useful
You're right. It is useful simply because of its controversial nature. I wouldn't be here except for Loose Change. Press for Truth would not have made me active.
By the way...
I was on Louder Than Words Radio yesterday with Jason. For a good half hour.
"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."
Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member
I listened on the ipod this
I listened on the ipod this morning. You're a star, baby!
Heh...
Jason made me blush with his overly kind introduction.
"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."
Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member
Don't blush...
...bask for a moment. Your heart and sincerity shine through. You keep the families at the forefront of your priorities, and we all benefit from the drumbeat of your constant reminder.
I hope you come to D.C. for the events on January 26-27. We can put you to good use!
Thanks...
Is that the anti-war rally that's planned?
"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."
Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member
Indeed.
Indeed.
Jon, put up a link to your
Jon, put up a link to your interview. I wanna hear it!
Ok...
Part I
Click Here
Part II
Click Here
I'm in the last half hour of Part II.
"I think that we have to look at these alternative groups and these alternative people who are continuing to make films and bring their research to the public."
Sally Regenhard - 9/11 Family Member
Dylan, You guys have done a
Dylan,
You guys have done a great service to the movement and your fellow humans. Don't take the criticism to heart. We are all just as anxious as yourselves to see something good come out of this and we appreciate your efforts. If I can give 1 bit of advice....don't play on their terms anymore. By doing so, you get 'interviews like the O'Reilly piece where he is calling Fetzer a traitor, terrorist and whatever he pleases and Fetzer is not given time to respond. Do no interviews on THEIR turf unless you are going to bring up wtc7 and the tower demolitions again and again until they pull the plug on the "debate". I recommend the same advice to ALL would-be truther spokesman. This way, as we are saturating the public domain with truth and the perps feel the need to respond through THEIR media, let them say what they want but we shouldn't respond other than to repeat the evidence for the control demolitions. Instead, we should taunt them by continuing to spread the news and invite them on OUR turf for debate.
Keep up the good work!
You're blithering, Hero.
Why are you incapable of saying something coherent? You're like a freak-show attraction, but not even worth the price of admission for a wooden nickel.
The Debate
I personally don't give a rats ass who won or lost the debate. It changes nothing. 9/11 was an inside job period. Also, say what you want about Dylan and his friends, Loose Change is still the best 9/11 truth video out there bar none! That video has revolutionilized the 9/11 truth movement. Any of you trolls want to prove me wrong? Give it your best shot and I will slam you to the ground.
No Slam
No, maddog, you can't slam any rationalist to the ground. Your side has only emotionally-based rubbish. We have the real science and ALL the evidence. The self-proclaimed "truth" (how Orwellian is that?) movement is a house of cards built on falsehoods. Five years of screaming and the fantasists can't refute ANYTHING in the NIST report (which they haven't read), the Popular Mechanics book, the Protec paper, on 911myths.com, etc.
This type of air time is not for debate, it's wasteful.
From now on, the men from Loose Change should know their true value. It's time to properly size up every interview and respond accordingly. Ronald Wick is a cheap rendition of third rate Charlie-Rose-got drunk-and-stumbled-into-local-bar-in-Queens-or-Long-Island- and-then-does-his-show. He's got his audience, it's small, stable, and going nowhere. Size up what's to gain. My opinion, if you must do the show, whatever the topic, always bring it home to the Military Exercises, 911 Press for Truth, and the possible contents of Bush's phone call the morning of 911 with Vladimir Putin (nuke stand-down-orders? bush to putin, "we're only running fully armed nuke drills just by chance on the same day we are massively and strategically attacked with a 75% success rate against our supreme national targets, using $20 bucks worthe of boxcutters). The Putin phone call is simply worthe pressing because it will, over time, force the administration to make a statement about it, which will reveal to a larger audience the live Nuke exercises occuring on 911 and the entire chain of command of the day placing everyone somewhere along the chain. This additional 911 coincidence will be too much for people to beileve. A show like Hard Fire maybe should be considered as a no fly zone, as it might not be worthe squat preaching to their small and entrenched choir.
It's always a great time to press for 911 Presss for Truth.
I watched the off-air commentary down the page of this blog. I noticed Ronald asked the men from Loose Change off air if they felt as if he was setting them up. You should notice how he didn't ask Mark. But Mark, trying his best after realizing Ronald revealed the show's unbalanced angle tried to cover by answering the question as if it were posed to him, which it wasn't. Mark was the show's stooge. Whatta show, Lard Fire, a class act, defending mass murderers.
This type of air time is not for debate, it's wasteful.
Well said
Well said Greenback...Ronald badly twitches his eyes when he's lying, it's so obvious and he does it at least twice when he asks the guys if they don't feel like they're being setup AND when he blindly silenced Dylan's comment about the laws of science being broken or suspended on 9/11.
In short...
Ronald, you're an asshole!
Yeah, yeah
Ronald twitches his eyes after he's put drops into them.
I understand the level of intelligence I'm dealing with here, but you must concentrate real hard, now. Jason and Dylan understood that I was the guy who debated Les Jamieson. No one felt that any deception had been attempted. Can we get past this point? Is this another "Pull it!" fiasco? Five years of nonsense and we all get the idea that NOBODY in the demolition industry thinks that "pull it" means "blow up the building." You can keep lying, but you make yourself look ridiculous.
Dylan's absurd talking point about laws of science being broken has one obvious drawback: There isn't a real scientist anywhere who buys it. It's bullshit, another fabrication by the fantasists, who have absolutely NO evidence to support their mad claims.
BRILLIANT JOB!!!!!!!
You guys totally rocked!
You may not have noticed, but Mr. Roberts was all but constipated that you were SO together. A great improvement over the interview with Popular Mechanics--you're doing a bang up job not letting the idiots rattle you. Keep it up!
Also, I think Mark had to change his tactics midway through--lots of paper shuffling on his side. Expect him to try to wind you up next time--he DOES NOT like the calm Dylan and Avery, no, my precious, he does not!
And thank you for plugging "911Press for Truth", AND clairifying that "Loose Change", as good as it is, is not the whole 911truth movement. Now, no time to relax--whatever you did to prepare for this interview, do it for the next. That lame attempt to make you two feel ashamed at besmirking a coroner's reputation--expect more of that shite.
I AM SO BLOODY PROUD OF YOU TWO!!
Okay, now to read the 99 posts ahead of me...
Impeachment. Accountabiliy. A better world.
The JREF, huh? So why would
The JREF, huh? So why would I want to go to a forum whose interests include the paranormal? I don't think people obsessed with ghosts and aliens have much to contribute to the issue of 911.
And what the hell is a "language award of the month"? You get a box of choccies and a gold star with that?
No, 911debunker, I am not rushing over to JREF, and wasting my energy slapping around your daft sodding mates-- I can do that just fine here when they post anonymously.
"Bugger this; I want a better world."
Is it too much to ask for
Is it too much to ask for some truthers trained in logic and debate to go mono y mono with trained debaters like Mark Roberts? No offense Dylan and Korey You guys have done for the movement what no other can; however, I believe individuals trained in debating are needed for these debates. The schills they go up against are 100% trained in debating, bullshitting, misdirecting, and evoking emotion to manipulate the viewers. They are trained in propaganda. We need people trained to nail them on it.
"... In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." (Galileo Galilei, 1564 - 1642)
OIL IS OBSOLETE - WAKE UP - YOU'VE BEEN LIED TO, AGAIN!
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/
Nice theatre!!! ....This
Nice theatre!!! ....This only confirms that Dylan and Bermas really are "in"..stupid arrogant snitches like 911blogger and so many others..
They are discrediting the movement like so many others..sad but true.
Well, money is funny..and fear always works for weak and soulless characters.
People dont be naive, the movement has been infiltrated long time ago.
Think for yourselves.
Shills
It's understandable that the fantasists were disappointed with the debate. Mark Roberts has encyclopedic knowledge of the myths and canards of the twoofers. You're asking Dylan and Jason to beat something with nothing.
I'm always curious why the rationalists who demolish your side's fabrications are supposed to be shills. Do we really believe that there exists a secret body of knowledge, so far unrevealed by the fantasists, that overturns everything the real scientists and engineers have discovered? What do we gain by suppressing it? Do we get paid? Where's my money?
IZZY TO DYLAN, and LCers, and , 911 TRUTHERS
These invitations to debate, be interviewed are NOT to inform the audience, but to spin, to discredit their adversaries. In a word, theyir purpose is to destroy you. "Making nice", appearing polite will only impress your family, and DELIGHT YOUR ENEMIES.
The biggest difference between you or any other guests on such shows, is their guys had to go to LIAR'S SCHOOL! You're the good guys, and they're the ones who are selling the country down the river, so don't treat them with a respect that should only be reserved for fellow Patriots!
We are not here to make friends, but to promote our POV, NOT TO THOUGHTFULLY RESPOND TO THEIR LOADED QUESTIONS, AND NOT TO GIVE THEM FULL CONTROL OF THE DEBATE!! To do so, is to have a big 'STUPID" written accross your forehead.
This is what you do--(and this applies to anyone invited to participate in an interview stacked against you.....)
The night before, you have your talking points. No more than three, and prioritized.
Example, the USG's fable has no evidence. We have it to burn. Theirs is antedotal (he said, she said) and we have the Brunomali shoes....
.
""The Government is unable to provide evidence of their claims, instead relies on spin and repetition.
Example" everytime Flt 93, or hijackers, is mentioned, that is your cue to say: like a broken record,
"Where is the EVIDENCE?" Where are their PLANE RESERVATIONS? Where is the paper trail?" wHY HAVE THE CELL PHONE BILLS NEVER BEEN PRESENTED?
At any question that calls for you to speculate, or for you to come up with a conclusion, ........that is your cue to return to; the EVIDENCE THAT THE USG IS SITTING ON------and how they could answer that question by releasing the EVIDENCE. ............
........and be willing to point out their loaded questions!......and instead punish them by returning to your favorite point, and what they hate the most, EVIDENCE! ". "Well, that's a loaded question, but I find evidence far more interesting that speculating--like the removal of the evidence at the crime scene........."
Concede nothing about your work!!!!! , even when they ask you to do so sweetly. Never forget who they are (slimbags) and who you are (patriots] !!! Step on their lines when they start with the bs. Never let them make a point at your expense, or at the expense of the truth.
Be willing to say such things as.......
"Instead of coming forth with the evidence that would put an end to speculation, the USG instead relies on an obedient media for spin and repeating the same lies over and over as their substitute for real evidence"
or:
"THAT ISN'T TRUE!" practice this line! It's the best there is, and memorable.
or:
"Speculation, and opinions is the stuff of THOSE WITHOUT EVIDENCE......and we prefer real evidence"
[and the coin of the realm of BS artists, but don't say that!]
The answer to your opponent's "fogging" is........
Broken record---broken record---broken record.
When in doubt, chew on their ankles.
After 5+ years, any in the US that don't get it by now, are likely to continue to have Gummy-bears for brains---so whether you win or lose against pros, but regardless of the difference in age or experience you are still addressing a traitor to this country. So take nothing from them.
malaprop aka izzy
http://www.911wasahoax.blogspot.com
---------------------
Truthers need to know that 50% or more of the Truth movement leadership are infiltrators that wish to pave the way for the NWO and deliberable provoke disrtuption (just like they do in other countries) and try to destroy our resistance--and they are the charmers, "experts" that wish to steer Truthers away from the most deadly evidence thru vilification.
Snitches at work
Nice theatre boys!!! ....This only confirms the fact that Dylan and Bermas really are "in"..stupid arrogant snitches like 911blogger and so many others..
They are discrediting the movement like so many others..sad but true.
Well, money is funny..and fear always works for weak and soulless characters.
People dont be naive, the movement has been infiltrated long time ago.
Think for yourselves.
911Snitch.com
When you put your head out from cover a snipper is waiting!
Very interesting, I've learnt allot from the LC teams exposure under pressure.
Thanks for pushing the limits once again and at your own creditability’s expense.
I think LC the final cut will be much better for this experience and its good thing it happened before your big screen adventure.
It definitely brings credibility to this site by allowing us to see the failures and the successes of the truth movement.
Regards John
"Thanks for pushing the
"Thanks for pushing the limits once again and at your own creditability’s expense." -John
Yeah right spook, you said it.
Bring on the sniper...
sorry..I ment Snipper.
sorry..I ment Snipper.
I have....
I have done my own research and anlaized clips when "the airplanes"
crash in the twin towers and I got to the conclusion that there were no
such airplanes in the murders on 9/11/2001..
I CAN PROVE IT TO ANYONE.
Uh, uh
No, you can't prove it to anyone who can think. The people, such as my friend's wife, who watched the second plane hit would prove a pretty tough sell.
"yeah, they're making
"yeah, they're making truckfuls of money by selling Loose Change DVD's for a dollar and letting other people copy it for free and sell it for a dollar." -Doughnut-
Hey, are you really stupid or naive?! I wasnt talking about DVD sales...This is just the start with Dylan & Co, you will see..
Dylan is a snitch, thats a 100% fact, its sad but very true..get over it..!
R. Siegel is one too, hell...., he would do anything for money...haha
Dont go around joining dubios movements, cause that way you will be easily controlled and your means and deeds will get suppressed. Think for yourselves! You dont need snitches to tell you what to think!
The Delphi Technique. What Is It?
They have divided the movement allready.., no planers, podpeople,energy beams directed from WTC 7, and on we go....They are trying to keep us busy arguing and fighting with ourselves, DIVIDE AND CONQUER!
AND REMEMBER THIS,
80% to 90% of the movements are controlled/infiltrated by the government, thats a fact!! Do your math!! Dont be naive!
_________________
"These bogus groups could serve many functions which might include attacking and/or disrupting bona fide groups, or even just simply creating a diversion with clever propaganda in order to attract members away so as to involve them with time-wasting activity designed to prevent them from doing anything useful. COINTELPRO was also famous for instigation of hostile actions through third parties so that it looked like just a "disagreement" between two individuals or groups, a "food fight" or something, and there was no way to connect it to any government operation."
How the movement is controlled
This is just one example:
The Delphi Technique — What Is It?
"A specialized use of this technique was developed for teachers, the "Alinsky Method" (ibid, p.123). The setting or group is, however, immaterial; the point is that people in groups tend to share a certain knowledge base and display certain identifiable characteristics (known as group dynamics). This allows for a special application of a basic technique.
The change agent or facilitator goes through the motions of acting as an organizer, getting each person in the target group to elicit expression of their concerns about a program, project, or policy in question. The facilitator listens attentively, forms "task forces," "urges everyone to make lists," and so on. While s/he is doing this, the facilitator learns something about each member of the target group. S/He identifies the "leaders," the "loud mouths," as well as those who frequently turn sides during the argument — the "weak or noncommittal".
Suddenly, the amiable facilitator becomes "devil's advocate." S/He dons his professional agitator hat. Using the "divide and conquer" technique, s/he manipulates one group opinion against the other. This is accomplished by manipulating those who are out of step to appear "ridiculous, unknowledgeable, inarticulate, or dogmatic." S/He wants certain members of the group to become angry, thereby forcing tensions to accelerate. The facilitator is well trained in psychological manipulation. S/He is able to predict the reactions of each group member. Individuals in opposition to the policy or program will be shut out of the group.
The method works. It is very effective with parents, teachers, school children, and any community group. The "targets" rarely, if ever, know that they are being manipulated. Or, if they suspect this is happening, do not know how to end the process."
Read on..
The Delphi Technique — What Is It?
The Delphi Technique — How to Disrupt It
Ground rules for disrupting the consensus process (Delphi Technique) — when facilitators want to steer a group in a specific direction.
1) Always Be Charming. Smile, be pleasant, be courteous, moderate your voice so as not to come across as belligerent or aggressive.
2) Stay Focused. If at all possible, write your question down to help you stay focused. Facilitators, when asked questions they don't want to answer, often digress from the issue raised and try to work the conversation around to where they can make the individual asking the question look foolish, feel foolish, appear belligerent or aggressive. The goal is to put the one asking the question on the defensive. Do not fall for this tactic. Always be charming, thus deflecting any insinuation, innuendo, etc, that may be thrown at you in their attempt to put you on the defensive, but bring them back to the question you asked. If they rephrase your question into an accusatory statement (a favorite tactic) simply state, "that is not what I stated, what I asked was… (repeat your question)." Stay focused on your question.
3) Be Persistent. If putting you on the defensive doesn't work, facilitators often resort to long drawn out dissertations on some off-the-wall and usually unrelated, or vaguely related, subject that drags on for several minutes – during which time the crowd or group usually loses focus on the question asked (which is the intent). Let them finish with their dissertation/expose, then nicely, with focus and persistence, state, "but you didn't answer my question. My question was… (repeat your question)."
Remember…
always be charming,
stay focused, and
be persistent.
Never, under any circumstance, become angry. Anger directed at the facilitator will immediately make the facilitator "the victim." This defeats the purpose which is to make you the victim. The goal of the facilitator is to make those they are facilitating like them, alienating anyone who might pose a threat to the realization of their agenda. [People with fixed belief systems, who know what they believe and stand on what they believe, are obvious threats.] If the participant becomes the victim, the facilitator loses face and favor with the crowd. This is why crowds are broken up into groups of seven or eight, why objections are written on cards, not voiced aloud where they are open to public discussion and public debate. It's called crowd control. It is always good to have someone else, or two or three others who know the Delphi Technique dispersed through the crowd; who, when the facilitator digresses from the question, will stand up and say nicely, "but you didn't answer that lady's/gentleman's question." The facilitator, even if suspecting you are together, certainly will not want to alienate the crowd by making that accusation. Sometimes it only takes one occurrence of this type for the crowd to figure out what's going on, sometimes it takes more than one.
If you have an organized group, meet before the meeting to strategize. Everyone should know their part. Meet after the meeting to analyze what went right, what went wrong and why, and what needs to happen the next time around. Never meet during the meeting. One of the favorite tactics of the facilitator, if the meeting is not going the way he/she wants, if he/she is meeting measurable resistance, is to call a recess. During the recess, the facilitator and his/her "spotters" (people who wander the room during the course of the meeting, watching the crowd) watch the crowd to see who congregates where, especially those who have offered measurable resistance. If the "resistors" congregate in one place, a "spotter" will usually gravitate to that group to "join in the conversation" and will report back to the facilitator. When the meeting resumes, the facilitator will steer clear of those who are "resistors." Do not congregate. Hang loose and work the crowd. Move to where the facilitator or "spotters" are, listen to what they have to say, but do not gravitate to where another member of your team is.
This strategy also works in a face to face, one on one, meeting with anyone who has been trained in how to use the Delphi Technique.
This seems like good info,
This seems like good info, but some details are worrying. For instance:
"Never, under any circumstance, become angry. Anger directed at the facilitator will immediately make the facilitator "the victim." This defeats the purpose which is to make you the victim."
Keeping a cool head is obviously essential--but why do you NEED to become/ be precieved as a "victim"? Wouldn't "having a legitimate greivance" be sufficient, not to mention a healthier frame for disrupting manuipulation?
My doubts are not allied by the fact this was first posted by an anonymous. Do you, TheDeparted, have any links to actual problems/ situations where the Delphi Technique has been used and/ or successfully disrupted?
A documented example would help understanding this process. Cheers.
So, 8 to 9 out of 10
So, 8 to 9 out of 10 movements is controlled/infiltrated. Now, ask yourselves wich are the ones with most supporters or readers? And its not just that.., they are "sriking the root" also.
Dont go around donating money, cause its not about the money..,dont be fooled.., or please do if you want to end up blacklisted for supporting a "radical movement".
Its all about control.
Keep your guard up, ALWAYS!!