You can watch me and Rory have a "disagreement." Oooooooh...
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

It's described as "LIHOP" or "Limited-Hangout", and it is neither. It tells the story that got most of us interested, and it does so through the families. What more could you ask for? To me, if you show this movie first to anyone, you can then show them any other movie, and not come across as "crazy" or as a "conspiracy theorist."
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

....it is also problematic.....

On the one hand, it gives voice to the Jersey Girls and Paul Thompson (both of whom I hold in very high esteem) like no other film. And it has excellent production values. It might be the best, first (and I emphasize first) movie to give to the uninitiated who are between 30 and 50, especially women (I have other preferrable 9/11 films for first-timers who fit other demographics).

But it focuses on the "Pakistan connection", such as it is, at the expense of American, Israeli, and British complicity. (Personally, I think the Pakistanis are being set up to take a fall if the American public wakes up).

That is why I describe this film as a "limited hang-out" (it's still "blame brown people/Muslims, etc.). Even though I do give this movie out...but never do I give it out without giving other films to watch afterwards.

Again, Jon...I don't want to argue with you about this...our time is better spent...just want to express this viewpoint.....

im glad im not the only that thinks that about Pakistan. all these people who say Pakistan is the holy grail need to realize that. im not saying ingore Pakistan like many wrongly ignore Israels role, but it is NOT the holy grail.

It does a great job of 1) showing that Bush & Cheney did not want 9/11 investigated. 2) Once created the Commission was compromised with the appointment of Zelikow. and 3) Victims' families rejected the Commission and its report.

These are all important things for people to know, and I would LOVE to see those issues included in such depth in a MIHOP documentary (anyone know what comes after Planes and Hijackers in 9/11 Mysteries? Is it The Cover Up - And Whodunit?)

Pakistan is most definitely being set up to take the fall, with Bush coming off as maybe having known. That is PLAN B - the official "alternative conspiracy" theory that adherents of the Mommy Party will be allowed to speculate on while the Daddy Party defends its scion. If PLAN B succeeds, then yes, the brown bogeyman lives, al Qaeda was Pakistan all along, Hillary effects regime change there and brings the Islamic Bomb under western control, and nothing much changes.

Anyone who persists in asking about the Dancing Israelis or Israeli spying before and after 9/11 will just be showing how anti-semitic they are for not accepting that it was evil Pakistan all along that somehow made building 7 and the towers collapse. It will be noted that yes, SOME people had INITIALLY believed the buildings were demolished, but they turned out to be insane followers of the "discredited" Steven Jones.

Think narrative, folks--that's how this is all done. Whenever possible, suss out the narrative being woven before it is made public, and actively work to undermine it by pre-empting its release with the TRUTH, the WHOLE TRUTH, and NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH!!!

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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

On Earth could Pakistan be set up to take the fall when we gave them a chance to "cooperate and participate" from the very beginning? With full knowledge of their involvement? Since 9/11, they have become one of our partners in the "War On Terror", and have received billions in aid, as well as the sale of several American made weapons, and F-16's, etc... if anything, they are a partner in crime. I just don't see it... if a schmuck such as myself can find Pakistan's involvement with 9/11, it's safe to assume our Government is aware as well. Yet, they have been our bestus buddies, and have continually been protected by the powers that be. If Pakistan goes down, then so do elements within the U.S. Government.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

all the time...Saddam is one of those....

My impression (and it is only that), is that Pakistan was blackmailed and bribed to be our partner in Middle East domination from the beginning. ("Go along and there are all these benefits, don't, and.......") You get the idea.

The $100,000 transfer to Atta just seems so clumsy and obvious. Funny how we can trace that, and publicize it, so easliy, but not the pre-attack insider trading.

By "take a fall"....I mean only if it becomes necessary.....

BTW, you're hardly a schmuck. :)

That Thomas Kean denied any knowledge of it, even though it was one of the questions submitted by the family members? If Omar Sheikh's MI6, and CIA connections are brought up in a new investigation, then again, the U.S. falls right alongside Pakistan.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

I would prefer if those who have infiltrated and corrupted our government to fall. Of course the CIA are no angels, but do you really think George Tenet dreamed up the 9/11 fraud? It is very clear that hawkish pro-Israel interests were involved - it's just like "Osama" said--someone wanted to make the new century one of conflict between Christians and Muslims. Or the whole world and Muslims, really.

Plus the number of people who don't even wait for me to open my mouth before calling me an anti-semitic jew hater tell me that some people (not Pakistanis) are a wee bit too defensive these days.

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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

I don't think George Tenet dreamed up the 9/11 fraud. I think it's possible he participated in it in some way.

Do you really think I want the U.S. to fall, or that my statement was referring to those elements within the U.S. Government who were complicit in the attacks?
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

I agree Tenet had some role to play, whether or not it was an "offer he couldn't refuse" is not clear.

In the end I think there were those who made it happen AND those who let it happen because they were either too scared or too bribed to do anything to stop it. Who made it happen is the question, and I think some people from Pakistan probably helped cretae the coverstory, while some people in the U.S. and some people in Israel had more direct involvement. Some people in Saudi Arabia too probably, and perhaps even Turkey and who knows where else. The question we keep dancing around is why was it done--what was the intended effect--who was it supposed to benefit--who has profitted?

I think the answers to these questions can only become known with a full accounting of what happened. The Jersey girls will someday have to drop LIHOP or their credibility will be shot--I hope they have it in them, and do it soon.

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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

And you know how much India LOOOOOVES Pakistan!

And what was the nature of that wire transfer anyway? PayPal? Western Union? What was the money for? Does anyone besides the Times of India corroborate the story?

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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

The FBI?
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

leverage. Pakistan knows it has to "cooperate" with the "war on terror" when the FBI holds something like that over their heads.

And we should trust their investigation into this why?

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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

There just happen to be good people who work in ALL of the alphabet organizations of our Government. Unless, of course, you want to consider everything a "Conspiracy." If that's the case, we have no idea what happened at all.
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"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this."

Of course they have been partners in crime--the question is were they junior partners or senior, and how far up (did Musharraf know or just get stuck with the fallout from the ISI's covert ops)

Since we know that planes&hijackers were more distraction than destruction, how does that place Pakistan anywhere near the scene of the actual crime--the demolition of three buildings and murder of 2000+ people in them?

What if someone said "If Israel goes down, then so do elements of the U.S. government, PLUS Larry Silverstein, PLUS a bunch of Israeli spies, etc. etc."

Doesn't that also make sense? In fact maybe even more sense than if we replace Israel with Pakistan in that sentence?

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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

unexamined.

"to give to the uninitiated who are between 30 and 50, especially women"

Aaaaagh! Ack! Ack! Urrrrgggh.

You aren't the first person to make this statement here, but I ask you to re-examine it before making it again. I'm smack-dab in the middle of your demographic, and it was Steven Jones' research that piqued my interest. I'm not particularly geeky, either. It's just a lame generalization. PFT appeals to a lot of people.

I mean, the Jersey WOMEN!! ;)

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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

....if I said Loose Change was especially effective with the under-30 crowd, or David Ray Griffin's films are good for the over-50 crowd...does that one "ageist"?

Or that Alex Jones and Terrorstorm might be effective with blue-collar conservatives....?

I'm grateful we have so many ways to bring different people into to the movement. I try to give the first-timers the movie that seems to be best geared to that person. Just a personal effort on my part; very subjective.

PFT gives emphasis to the human element, the human cost of 9/11, that other films don't. Forgive me if I thought that approach might appeal to women. Yeah, it's a generalization, and I'm the first to admit there are exceptions, but it wasn't meant derogatorily.

Chill.