lol he not only stands FOR things, but he stands ON things... lol

Why does James Fetzer keep calling Tom Delonge "Alex" In the early part of this?

True, but my initial thoughts were that this was an edited interview, and Tom Delonge took it as an original. I hope not, but i'll wait to hear the full interview.

Dabees:

Thats what i thought, that he used part of alex jones interview, but i dont have any jones/fetzer interviews to compare.

Bowing down to your greater knowledge and research on this matter DHS
DabeesUK | 05.08.06 - 11:05 pm | #

lol thanks for the ego inflation...

Mooseawi is claiming that he made everything up so that he would be put to death.

Drew M, that's a very interesting idea on the WTC 7 flipbook. I used to have one with Donald Duck when I was a kid. The actual photos of the demolition should be used. Not like that (crappy) one. It'd make a great handout, and even, a collector's item. Better get on it, or hopefully, someone will.

yeah, i'm gonna look into it...

even if just to leave some laying around in restrooms (i often find comics telling me i'm going to hell there).

check out this site. They make custom flipbooks.

Also, I've found some software that converts .mpg or .avi files into a sequence of images that could be printed... I wouldn't want the assembly to be shoddy though.

Just spreading awareness of wtc7 can spark the curiousity of many.

Jon, here's the pdf of the entire letter:

http://medias.lemonde.fr/mmpub/edt/doc/20060509/769629_lettre.pdf

Jon,
Thanks for the link. Just to be clear, the information in the link relies solely on "John Judge, Researcher" and his unnamed friend, who he says is a flight attendant?

I'm not saying thats good or bad.

Yahoo's frontpage has Ahmadinejad's letter in the news box (I think that must be what it is, though I had a problem with viewing it). Its an amazing letter, very direct and common sense. Oooh, our media is not going let the American populi discuss much of that.

The revenues for United 93 don't look too good. The Oliver Stone movie must have a much bigger budget than this one and if he's going to do the kind of business he needs, the story better not be a rehash of the official version or it will bomb.
http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=united93.htm

This is a lie:

"""At 9:37:46, American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon, traveling at approximately 530 miles per hour.61 All on board, as well as many civilian and military personnel in the building, were killed.
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm """

No "witnesses" of convenience can change that.

Nm... I got it...

http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10049

can we confirm that this http://medias.lemonde.fr/mmpub/edt/doc/20060509/769629_lettre.pdf

is the actual letter?

"Thanks for the link. Just to be clear, the information in the link relies solely on "John Judge, Researcher" and his unnamed friend, who he says is a flight attendant?"

Yes, but I've known him long enough to know that I don't think he would lie... or spread "disinformation".

Have you looked at his other works? Or listened to any of his lectures?

Well, the Yahoo item is not the text of the letter and I've glanced through a half dozen of the linked articles and looked at the linked articles on antiwar.com and none of them have the full text of the letter. More of what Griffin identified as "omission" being a way to lie.

Thanks all for the links.

Jon,
What John Judge is saying is so at variance with other people. What to make of that????

Jon, this is it dude - page 4;

http://medias.lemonde.fr/mmpub/edt/doc/20060509/769629_lettre.pdf

Jon, a B-757 hitting the Pentagon at 530 miles per hour would basically have taken out that section. It didn´t happen. In fact the damage to the building was very light as you know.

After 9/11 they said that they had wreckage of the plane stored at a warehouse. But nobody has been allowed to visit that warehouse to view the wreckage. So it's a lie.

No wreckage, no videos - it's all one big Govt.lie - much like the rest of the 9/11 fable. Why should the Pentagon fable be any closer to reality than other segments of the Govt. 9/11 fairy tale?

LOL don't know how I managed to post that twice. Anyway I really wasnÂ’t down with Ahmadinejad after hearing all the holocaust stuff, but I never checked it out and just bought the media propaganda on him, which is ironic cus I thought I was immune to all that sh!t by now lol.

Jon, I agree with you 99% of the time, but I'm not buying that AA77 struck the Pentagon. No way.

"Jon, What John Judge is saying is so at variance with other people. What to make of that????"

It means that John Judge would not be the type of person to follow everyone off of the bridge if they decided to jump.

I am a member of the 9/11 Truth Movement. Does that mean I have to believe every theory put forward within the movement? I am a member of the 9/11 Truth Movement, but I am also an individual. An individual with a brain, and the ability to think and see for myself.

I respect Dr. David Ray Griffin more than any of you could know, but I don't agree with him on every aspect of 9/11. I respect a lot of people within the movement, but I do not agree with everything people say.

As a matter of fact, I would hate to think of anyone who blindly follows an individual or a theory without looking into it for themselves.

The 9/11 Truth Movement's purpose, to me, is not to figure out what happened on 9/11. That's not our job. It's THEIR job to answer OUR questions, and it is OUR job to hold them to it.

We're all not going to get along, and we're all not going to agree with one another. We still need to be "on the same page" if we are to succeed.

Alex Jones Interviews Mike Berger from 911truth.org
http://nw0.info/index.php?dir=Radio/Alex%20Jones%20Radio%20Archive/2006/...

"Jon, I agree with you 99% of the time, but I'm not buying that AA77 struck the Pentagon. No way."

And you are entitled to your opinion... as I just said.

That being said, I think there are other pieces of information that are more reliable in regards to Government complicity than the "theory" of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon.

Always go with the best information you have when presenting the case.

That's my stance on it. Again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Here's how I approach the Pentagon...

How did Flight 77 manage to hit the Pentagon 34 minutes AFTER the SECOND tower was hit? In the most defended air space in the world? Into the most secure building in the world? WITH people like George Tenet stating AFTER the FIRST tower was hit, "[URL=http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showpost.php?p=56249&postcount=13]You know, this has bin LadenÂ’s fingerprints all over it[/URL]."?

You answer those questions, and you will have solved the puzzle.

How did Flight 77 manage to hit the Pentagon 34 minutes AFTER the SECOND tower was hit? In the most defended air space in the world? Into the most secure building in the world? WITH people like George Tenet stating AFTER the FIRST tower was hit, "You know, this has bin LadenÂ’s fingerprints all over it."?

You answer those questions, and you will have solved the puzzle.

Jon:
this isnt BB Code ;-)

the a href is your friend here.

"Jon: this isnt BB Code

the a href is your friend here."

Yeah... sometimes I get confused.

The main obstacle to resolving 9/11 is the US one-party state and near total lack of democratic procedure.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/04/30/example...

amazing that this is acceptable.

That being said, I think there are other pieces of information that are more reliable in regards to Government complicity than the "theory" of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon.

Always go with the best information you have when presenting the case.

That's my stance on it. Again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Jon Gold | Homepage | 05.09.06 - 10:23 am | #

jon, why dont you tell us all that 100 more times...

if you dont think that flight 77 hit the pentagon then why spend so much time on it???

Tom DeLonge is from my home town and ive hung out with him many times... im going to have to call down there and see if any of my old buddies are with him on this.... they have a huge following and this could be big....

JG, regarding the Judge John piece, I get the firm impression that this did not take place at the crash scene, meaning it could have taken place anywhere. Keep in mind, the Northwood documents describe planting fake plane debris.

"if you dont think that flight 77 hit the pentagon then why spend so much time on it???"

Um, I do think 77 hit the Pentagon.

u2r2h,

start with something simple:

Why "trailblazer" was the real codeword for 9/11
http://www.team8plus.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?2918
Tue May 09 2006

"Here's how I approach the Pentagon...

How did Flight 77 manage to hit the Pentagon 34 minutes AFTER the SECOND tower was hit? In the most defended air space in the world? Into the most secure building in the world? WITH people like George Tenet stating AFTER the FIRST tower was hit, "You know, this has bin LadenÂ’s fingerprints all over it."?

You answer those questions, and you will have solved the puzzle."

Not to mention a guy who was denied the opportunity to rent a single engine Cessna a month before the attacks because he was such a bad pilot, pulling off that miracle 300 degree spin and tuck move.

"JG, regarding the Judge John piece, I get the firm impression that this did not take place at the crash scene, meaning it could have taken place anywhere. Keep in mind, the Northwood documents describe planting fake plane debris."

Northwoods also says, "Use of MIG type aircraft by US pilots could provide additional provocation. Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type planes would be useful as complementary actions. An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw a Cuban MIG, especially if the pilot of the transport were to announce such fact. The primary drawback to this suggestion appears to be the security risk inherent in obtaining or modifying an aircraft. However, reasonable copies of the MIG could be produced from US resources in about three months."

I think it would have been easier for them to use the actual planes, than to switch them, or use missiles, etc...

you know what i meant gold... if you think 77 hit the pentagon then why spend so much time on it???

77 didnt hit the pentagon and you should stop saying it did....

"you know what i meant gold... if you think 77 hit the pentagon then why spend so much time on it???

77 didnt hit the pentagon and you should stop saying it did...."

Um, I don't, but the movement surely does. I was showing the person who asked a question about it, a piece of information that I have. Nothing more.

"77 didnt hit the pentagon"

1) Tell me where it is.
2) Tell me where the people who were on that plane were taken.
3) Tell me how they disposed of the people who were on that plane.
4) Show me the video you have of something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon.

do i need to know what did happen to say what i think didnt happen????

sometimes you are so shilly...

im not so sure that there was a flight 77... put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!! lol

And exactly who are those "witnesses"?

Have they been heard of since september 2001 at all? Can you produce pictures of them? Are they real people? Which of them are pentagon employees who will say only what they're told to say?

this was a government run site that cataloged interviews with hundreds and hundreds of people regarding their experiences on 9/11, i am sure you could find it with a search.. if i find it first ill post it here.

Gangster,

can you elaborate on what you mean by 'energy sink' for me? im not familiar with the term.

Yeah, trust us we´re the government.

If any of them describe a 757 approaching the Pentagon basically hugging the ground fine, that evidence might stand up in court but we're dealing here with a plane travelling about 800 feet per second (530 miles per hour) so in order for that evidence to stand up in court that witness must be proven extremely alert and with 100% eyesight.

Gangster,

Found it:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/911_archive/title_sound_recordin...

I'm not sure which of these specifically it was, but one of them:
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/S?ammem/afc911bib:@field(SUBJ+@od1(Pentagon++Va++--Terrorist+Attack--2001))

real people who question what's going on... who might not be as far along as other people. They may come here trying to find some answers, etc... and instead get chastized. That's not cool.

now that is a very good point - nothing about this blog is obvious to someone questioning 911 for the first time - i realize that enlightening newcomers isn't really the purpose of this blog, but still, since 911blogger.com is the cornerstone of the 911truth movement, maybe it should take responsibility for enlightening the un-enlighted somehow? - someone should make a cliff notes of 911; a 911 for dummies so to speak -
the first thing that ever grabbed my eye and held it was the photo of the 12' dia. hole and the book sitting open on the stool and not even scorched at the pentagon - and then the penta-lawn - i saw that at letsroll911.org and immediately knew that the official 911 fairytale was a lie. but since then it's been a process of wading thru info at various sites trying to make sense of it all -
911 was a giant shock and awe op.
911 truth should be a shock and awe op as well.

dz, energy sink basically means energy release, that which absorbs energy. For example at the towers the main energy sinks were the pulverization of all the concrete and gypsum, the breaking of the steel and maintaining high temperature in the ruins for weeks.

There the energy sink can´t be noticably bigger than the potential energy of the building that is in a gravity driven collapse.

I can assure you that the energy release of a 100-ton airplane crashing at 530 miles per hour is HUGE and should one have hit the wall of the Pentagon we'd have seen a big section taken out.

Gangster,

Ah, good point..

Sorry, I forgot one big part of the tower energy sink - the expansion of that huge dust cloud.

Also steel was flying all over the place at least 400-500 feet away from the towers for example you can find a pic at FEMA of (according to them) a 600,000 pound steel assembly from WTC-1 which travelled at high velocity almost 400 feet to bury itself into 3 WFC (American Express).

The energy sinks at the towers are probably dozens of times larger than the potential energy of the structures.

James,

Thanks for the compliment on the site, but I do know it isn't exactly a good starting point for those new to 9/11.. that is what the 3 buttons in the upper left are for.. and all of the websites on the right..

i feel that if i were to compile a sort of newbies guide to 9/11 it would put me at the mercy of those that would argue over every point made.. to be fair i would have to list all of the points of contention, and then all of the arguements on that subject.. but innevitably someone would attack it for 'disinfo', or 'gatekeeping', or something else.. most ppl probably don't know, but running a 9/11 site sure does get a lot of people questioning your motives and attacking you baselessly.. just take a look at the comments about this site on oilempire to see what i mean.. that was written within a few weeks of 911blogger.com launching.. for some its hate hate hate, hopefully this site can be something different! :)

If flight 77 hit the Pentagon the wings would have struck the wall and left marks. There are no wing marks.

John Judge may want to get in good with his flight attendant friend, or have some other motive, but that doesn't convince me. Sorry, Jon.

Keep in mind, if you believe the missile theory regarding the Pentagon, then you abandon what Norman Mineta had to say.

from my position there are just as many holes in each side of the story..

so, here is one for you guys to discuss:
http://www.pentagonresearch.com/084.html

how did that landing gear get in the wreckage if 77 did not hit the pentagon? was it planted? before or after the incident?

just something to discuss, like i said, i see the arguement from both sides, and don't think either side is 'disinfo' or 'stupid', so lets have some rational discussion if we are going to talk about it..

here is an interesting summary conclusion on the pentagon from another avid researcher:
http://www.pentagonresearch.com/conclusions.html

Jon, yr point about Norman Minetta is a good one however it could be that a real flight 77 was approaching but met some other fate than hitting the Pentagon.

dz,
stupid me! i never once even noticed those 3 buttons in the upper left - ok no doubt you would be immediately accused/challenged upon creating a 911 primer. still, shock and awe! GRRR!! everyone's just a little too reasonable for the most part.
pentagon strike flash GRRR!!
_________________

"Jon, yr point about Norman Minetta is a good one however it could be that a real flight 77 was approaching but met some other fate than hitting the Pentagon."

I believe some have speculated that the anti-aircraft batteries surrounding the Pentagon were actually fired.

Again, release the videos.

(My apologies for not having this in a compressed format.)

The Hand Of “Allah”

If one accepts the "Official Version" of the events that occurred on 9/11 or in the days leading up to it, one can only conclude that a series of Miracles occurred suggesting the hand of higher powers.

I am struck by the similarities between a 9/11 and the events of "The Iliad" wherein a Pantheon of Gods battled one another by proxy by choosing Champions amongst the Greeks and Trojans and interceding on their behalf with various "Miracles".

I felt it would be interesting to see which "Gods" manifested themselves at or around 9/11, the nature of that manifestation and which of the various "Gods" won each particular battle.

The Miracle

19 Terrorists gain entry into the United States of America. Not only are none of them turned back at the borders but their entry is made easier with GW Bush changing the Visa requirements shortly before for Saudi citizens. Much of the paperwork they fill out is incomplete and many that gained entry are on intelligence agencies "Terror Lists". This even after the US Government received a number of warnings regarding a desire by Al Qaeda to launch attacks within America.

Surely the "Hand Of Allah"

The Miracle

These 19 terrorists are under the surveillance of various agents of the United States Government. All of these are called off at the last moment with Agents in Chicago and Miami and Phoenix all ignored by higher authorities when they raise questions about the presence of the various terrorists within the United States. Investigations are actively blocked or impeded.

Surely the "Hand of Allah"

The Miracle

On the day of the Hijackings none of the 19 terrorists are discovered as they bring "Box Cutters axes and Guns onto the planes". They all use fake names it seems as none appear on any official passenger list. Any one of these could have been discovered getting onto the planes which might well have lead to the unraveling of the entire plot.

Surely the "Hand Of Allah"

The Miracle

One the day of the hijackings the US Government is running drills with its Air Force where it is simulating "Multiple Hijackings of Aircraft" within the United States of America. This drill causes great confusion amongst Air Traffic Controllers as it provides "Cover" for the real Hijackings. Without these drills it is very possible that the Aircraft that were hijacked could have been intercepted far earlier. Certainly one has to consider this some sort of "Miracle"

Surely "The hand of Allah"

The Miracle

Months prior to the hijackings the US Government changes the rules of engagement for hijacked Aircraft. Now in order to send up planes to intercept, the approval of the Defense Secretary, one Donald Rumsfeld, is required. Unfortunately he goes missing for 30 minutes, again impeding the ability of intercepts to be flown. Not only this but on the day of those intercepts, supersonic US fighter aircraft that are scrambled suddenly have a top speed of only some 200 MPH.

Surely "The Hand Of Allah"

The Miracle

The US President is on a pre-scheduled event in a school in Florida. The Government has no idea of how many Aircraft have been hijacked or what the targets of the hijackers are. Indeed, given that the president’s location that morning had been televised, the President himself might well be a target. Yet, rather then rush him to safety as they are trained—and expected—to do, the Secret Service is certain the President is not at risk. They let the President sit in the classroom and continue with his story about a pet goat for the next half hour—even after he was told the second tower was hit. A miracle of faith if anything.

Surely "The Hand of Allah"

The Miracle

Five Israeli Citizens manage to be across the river from the WTC towers and are in place to film the planes crashing into the towers. Great is their Joy as they realize that the United States will certainly discover that Al Qaeda is the Culprit and this will lead to the destruction of Israel's many enemies. How they came to be there is certainly a miracle, and that the attack lead to the destruction of their arch enemies, the Iraqis, even more so. Why, after traces of explosives were detected their vans by bomb-sniffing dogs these men were iexplicably released by the police, only adds to this miracle.

Surely "the Hand Of Yahweh"

The Miracle

No steel-framed buildings in the history of construction had ever suffered total structural collapse due to fires, yet on this single day, within hours of one another, THREE buildings collapse after fires burn through them. This even after Firefighters claim to have had the fires under control.

Surely "the Hand of Allah"

The Miracle

All three towers collapse neatly into their own footprints, exactly as they do in controlled demolitions, at freefall speeds—I.e., the same speed as a ball dropped from the roofs. All 110 floors fell as if nothing existed beneath them but air.

Surely "the Hand of Allah"

The Miracle

The owner of the buildings slips up on national television and ADMITS that he ordered one of the towers (building 7) to be “pulled”. A “Pull”—jargon for controlled demolition—requires MONTHS of planning and preparation. Yet, no one to this day has asked this man how he managed to achieve this incredible feat in a matter of hours, and amidst the chaos of 9/11. The 9/11 Commission surely must also have assumed this to be a miracle because they did not even address this in their report. That the insurance company paid out Billions of dollars without even the slightest investigation—even after the owner’s admission of a pull—only compounds the power of this miracle.

Surely "the Hand of Allah"

The Miracle

Jet fuel is essentially refined kerosene. It burns without problem in millions of steel stoves, heaters and furnaces around the world every day. Yet on 9/11, in less than an hour, this innocuous substance MELTED all the massive steel beams of three skyscrapers and caused the structures to collapse like pillars of sand in less than 10 seconds. Further, the resulting MOLTEN metal continued to bubble in the basements of the collapsed buildings for several weeks.

Surely "the Hand of Allah"

The Miracle

Six months before the 9/11 attacks, the cluster of buildings that constitute the World Trade Center are purchased by a private investor for a relatively paltry sum of $200 million. (That was the first time in its 33-year history the complex had changed ownership). The new owner has the foresight (miraculous, no doubt) to insure the buildings against terrorist attacks. The buildings were never seen as being profitable. In fact, because of their extremely high asbestos content, the structures were virtually condemned. Yet to destroy them and rebuild them by conventional means would have been prohibitively expensive. It is indeed a miracle that the investor was paid $7 BILLION by the insurance companies after the attacks. A miraculously handsome return on an investment of $200 million.

Surely "The hand of Allah"

The Miracle

Immediately following the acquisition of the WTC complex, the new owner makes it a priority to change Security companies. The CEO and a director of the new security company are none other than George W. Bush’s brother and cousin. It is a double-miracle that this same company is also responsible for providing security to American Airlines and the Dulles airport—both closely associated with the 9/11 attacks.

Surely "The hand of Allah"

The Miracle

Billions in profits are made off put options shortly before 9/11 wherein investors made up to $15 Billion in a frenzy of trading betting that certain stocks would fall in value over the next few days. These included stocks in the two Airlines that would suffer most from 9/11. In fact, the profits were so staggering and unprecedented that it caused Bloomberg News to exclaim: “This would be the most extraordinary coincidence in the history of mankind if it was a coincidence. This could very well be insider trading at the worst, most horrific, most evil use you’ve ever seen in your entire life. It’s absolutely unprecedented.”

Little did Bloomberg News know that it was in fact a miracle.

Surely "The Hand of Allah"

This is only a small sampling of the Miracles of 9/11. Any that do not believe that higher powers did not have a hand in this are surely blinded. The number of coincidences that occurred in those few days is mind boggling. TerroristsÂ’ passports that Miraculously survived fireballs and landed blocks away...the Miraculous bag that did not make the flight that included the names and details of every hijacker...Persons receiving Miraculous warnings out of the ether not to fly on that day...Cell phones Miraculously working from 30,000 feet where they had never worked before...People who couldnÂ’t fly a little Cessna performing Miraculous corkscrew maneuvers in Jumbo Aircraft...The list of Miracles on 9/11 is virtually endless.

“Allah” has certainly spoken.

Since Usama bin Laden (the devout Muslim whose followers evidently love booze, lap dances and overt hell-raising — especially on the night before going to meet their Maker), appears to lean heavily on “Allah’s” miracles, it would be proper to ask the man the following 12 questions:

Dear Usama:

1. Why did you deny the attacks in 2001?
If you really are the arch-enemy of civilization, then the strike against your most hated enemy on 9/11 would have been something for you to shout about. Consider: None of your operatives were caught prior to their missions, they successfully bypassed airport security, they successfully hijacked passenger jets and subdued the passengers, they successfully evaded a US military response, they successfully flew the planes with absolute precision even

bin laden is an evil super genius!
didn't you know that?
__________________

Cormorant, that is brilliant!!

I wish I knew how to copy it.

Chander, you just place the cursor at the beginning of the text press the mouse left and scroll to the end of the text. With the text thus marked you hit control and c simultaneously (press control, hold it and press c). Now you have selected that text. Open an empty Word document place the cursor where you want to document to start and hit control and v (proceed just like with control and c). Now the text will be copied into the word document. Hope this helps.

dz, i was only fighting with gold... gold acts like he speaks the word of god around here and i dont think it should go unchecked... it looks like im not alone...

Tip.

I have an Adobe printer driver which prints to a .pdf file. So I save an entire discussion like this by simply placing the cursor somewhere in it, press mouse right - print - and select the adobe printer driver.
Easy as a peach.

No, I say promoting something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon AS FACT is dangerous to the movement, and makes people think we're insane.

That's what I say.
Jon Gold | Homepage | 05.09.06 - 11:35 am | #

I think thats the crux of the issue.

The Speculation is too often pushed on people.

There are far too many factual/documented/testimonial pieces that we should spend time on.

First things first, expose the coverup.

After that, see how far the rabbit hole goes.

inside,

oh, well feel free to bust jon's nuts every now and then, it helps keep him humble ;)

Iran Letter to Bush

Well, the big problem with the 9/11 discussion is that the people who wrote the official story just aren´t taking part in the discussion. As a result the lapdogs of the big media aren´t either nor are the congress rubber stamps. So it's always like boxing shadows.

And since the officialdom simply ignores the issue most of the populace gets the message and ignores it too. This is a natural process in a totalitarian one-party political system without any meaningful democratic procedures.

"dz, i was only fighting with gold... gold acts like he speaks the word of god around here and i dont think it should go unchecked... it looks like im not alone..."

I wasn't fighting with you, yet, you decided to "start" with me. On top of that, you called me a "shill". Then, you put words in my mouth regarding Dr. Griffin. Was that called for? I mean, it's not like I don't spend 16 hours of EVERY fucking day looking for information to HELP this fucking movement is it? I mean, it's not like I haven't given up my ENTIRE life for this movement is it? It's not like I haven't written a RIDICULOUS amount of articles for this movement is it? It's not like I don't spend EVERY FUCKING DAY maintaining a site in order to help this movement is it?

Have I not earned the right to speak my mind according to you?

What the fuck HAVE YOU done for this movement asshole?

"Gold acts like he speaks the word of God around here"

I don't believe in God.

You know, it's really easy to see why some members of this movement have dropped off the face of the earth.

i think anyone that says that flight 77 hit the pentagon is hurting the movement....

gold didnt even want to talk CD until jones came out...

>
>The Speculation is too often pushed >on people.
>

The united message should be "where's the proof?"

Everything from 9/11 to the start of wars has been done based on the "belief" of the Bush regime. They 'believed' Osama did it, so they just had to wage war onto Afghanistan, they 'believed' there were WMD in Iraq, so they went on to Iraq, now they 'believe' Moussaoui was telling the truth when he confessed but is now lying when he declares his innocence.
And now they 'believe' that Iran is developing nuclear weapons without any proof in the public domain to support the claim.

Quite a dictatorship, isn't it...

Relax guys, and check out page 4...

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/world/0605/transcript.lemonde.letter/inde...

:+:

"gold didnt even want to talk CD until jones came out..."

I still don't talk about it. I'm not a metallurgist, or a physics professor, or a structural engineer.

And you know what? NEITHER are you.

I DO, however, refer people to Professor Jones rather than think of myself as an expert because I know I'm not.

"i think anyone that says that flight 77 hit the pentagon is hurting the movement...."

So then Norman Mineta's omitted testimony that says Cheney was at the PEOC giving orders earlier than 9:58 is useless? Ok..

This is the link to the original source of "The Hand of "Allah"
The writer is unknown.
The section I posted above is modified by Nila Sagadevan.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/handofallah.php

"dz, i was only fighting with gold... gold acts like he speaks the word of god around here and i dont think it should go unchecked... it looks like im not alone..."

I wasn't fighting with you, yet, you decided to "start" with me. On top of that, you called me a "shill". Then, you put words in my mouth regarding Dr. Griffin. Was that called for? I mean, it's not like I don't spend 16 hours of EVERY fucking day looking for information to HELP this fucking movement is it? I mean, it's not like I haven't given up my ENTIRE life for this movement is it? It's not like I haven't written a RIDICULOUS amount of articles for this movement is it? It's not like I don't spend EVERY FUCKING DAY maintaining a site in order to help this movement is it?

Have I not earned the right to speak my mind according to you?

What the fuck HAVE YOU done for this movement asshole?

"Gold acts like he speaks the word of God around here"

I don't believe in God.

You know, it's really easy to see why some members of this movement have dropped off the face of the earth.
Jon Gold | Homepage | 05.09.06 - 2:05 pm | #what a fucking baby you are... do you always use real names when you get mad??? thats a loser move gold and you know it....

i spread the truth everywhere i go.. you cant even get people in your office to see the truth... maybe its the way you go at it... i bet you dont show people lc2 because of the pentagon part(i said i bet)...

you need to change how you word this..(No, I say promoting something other than Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon AS FACT is dangerous to the movement, and makes people think we're insane.)

ive seen you say it like that 100 times and i hate it everytime... sound like you think its a fact that 77 hit the pentagon....

Jon,
I don't think people here do very much attacking at all. Go to one of the Yahoo stock message boards and you see real attacking, like attacking wives, children and mothers over whether opinions that the price of a stock is going to rise or fall.

Here is the part of your link above that bothered me about John Judge's unnamed flight attendant friend:

"She was immediately invited in to a series of briefings and grief counseling sessions by both the airline and the Pentagon. These briefings continue to this day."

Frankly, its just not credible that the airline or the Pentagon would have this flight attendant attend "briefings," particularly briefings that "continue to this day." Airlines do their own training for flight attendants and flight attendants are just union employees. I can see the airline doing "grief counseling" for the employees and some new features added to the training. But not Pentagon briefings.

"you cant even get people in your office to see the truth"

Really? I believe I said I've turned some people on to it? Where do you get your information?

You do what you think is best for the movement, and I'll do what I think is best for the movement.

If your contribution to the movement is policing people who say Flight 77 might have actually hit the Pentagon, then that's your prerogative. I've got better things to do with my time.

I'll put up the Turbo Ted segment tonight about Goss, Graham, Ahmad... he kind of screwed up on it though by referring to the ISI as the Pakistani Secret Service...

Jon,
i am not hiding my opinion or any other "real feelings", i just didn't see that the template didn't cache my name.
Any other smart response for now??

"Jon,
i am not hiding my opinion or any other "real feelings", i just didn't see that the template didn't cache my name. Any other smart response for now??"

Not at all. I didn't attack you. You're doing fine all by yourself.

And Nico... we were trying to bring this thread back to normality.

Someone posted this picture up above: http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2001-09/634698.jpg

Is the "impact" zone (from the Boeing, missile, frisbee, etc.) in the photo -- or somewhere off to the right of the photo?

can you feel the love guys? its so dense i cant breath.

GW,

I'm always curious what new will come up in pentagon research, pentagonresearch.com has some new photos of the landing gear i hadn't seen before, and of course 911myths.com has interesting (if not frustrating) counter-arguements.. the topic is still very much alive, i just choose to stay agnostic about it personally - the lovely conversations here are a good example as to why ;)

Normality?
I have nothing to do with that either.

Someone else here started to talk about the Pentagon, not me.
I have no time for this old schoold debate.

Insist that people stick to the official story of a 757 hitting the wall of the Pentagon at 530 miles per hour - at basically ground level - and watch them in fast retreat right away. :)

" Flight "AA77" did not exist
http://img120.exs.cx/img120/2681...77wheelsoff.jpg "

What is the source?

this along is enought to prove that flight aa77 never crashed in the building.

Simple logic tell me that a plane that doesnt exist can't crash into a building :)

"Normality? I have nothing to do with that either.

Someone else here started to talk about the Pentagon, not me. I have no time for this old schoold debate."

So why did you single me out? I didn't say word one to you did I?

I think Gold has done more for this site than most of you "77 didnt hit it" guys. I dont think 77 hit it, but if it proves to have hit it, then how will that look in front of all the people and this was your foundation for the truth

George, the impact point was supposedly to the left of the electric generator (the thing generating most of the smoke).
A 757 would never have cleared the contractor barracks anyway.

Gangster -- do you mean the left plume of smoke or the right plume of smoke?

anybody watch 24 last night? i thought it was interesting how they portrayed the difficulty of landing on a freeway.. the acrobatics of the first 3 flights are pretty unbelievable..

George, the right plume.

"anybody watch 24 last night? i thought it was interesting how they portrayed the difficulty of landing on a freeway.. the acrobatics of the first 3 flights are pretty unbelievable.."

People at work have been talking about, "Oh my god, can you believe the President is the bad guy? It's unbelievable.", and I'm like, "Wow, that's really unbelievable. NOT".

yeah, i watch 24 every week, i love that fucking show. the writers have really been great this year, making the president work with terrorists and what not. i think some of the writers are closet truthers based on this season.seriously, some of the dialogue is CRAZY. the way some of the so called patriots were rationalizing working with terrorists for strategic reasons like the oil in the middle east.

Bear in mind that a 757's engines extend something like 8 feet below its belly so as that plane comes zooming in, avoiding scraping the lawn is a question of mere inches - at 530 mph. Since the Pentagon is located in a slight depression relative to the surroundings this feat is in the miraculous class.

so, has anyone read the president of Irans letter to Bush yet? some 9/11 truth related stuff. i suggest you read it.

chris,

i had an inside tip that 2 former members of 24 attended a certain 9/11 meeting about a month ago.. maybe they will come out publicly one day.. wish i could say more, but thats all i can say.

I think Gold has done more for this site than most of you "77 didnt hit it" guys. I dont think 77 hit it, but if it proves to have hit it, then how will that look in front of all the people and this was your foundation for the truth
Yizzo | 05.09.06 - 3:48 pm | #

are you going to get gold a cake??? who said the pentagon is anyones foundation??? i sure didnt...

i love the "ive done more then you have" thing... gold really loves it... to say these things is just lame.. how would you or anyone know what i or anyone else does everyday???

excerpt of letter sent by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to President Bush:

Mr. President, Sept.11 was a horrendous incident.The Killing of innocents is deplorable and appaling in any part of the world.September 11 was not a simple operation.Could it be planned and executed without coordination with intelligence and security services-or their extensive infiltration?Of course this is just an educated guess.Why have the various aspects of the attacks been kept secret?Why are we not told who botched their responsibilities?And, why aren't those responsible and the guilty parties identified and put on trial?

the bottom line is, this letter is a threat. the Iranian president is using the big lie as leverage.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/world/0605/transcript.lemonde.letter/lemo...

I believe today's item by Wayne Madsen, on his "Report", about world leaders think 9/11 an inside job, is the first time Madsen has gotten this right-on about 9/11.

I plan to encourage and thank him.

dz, its so obvious to me that at least some of the writers on that show are very plugged into what their government has been up to. i have watched 24 since the 2nd season, and i have never been as impressed as i am this year with the direction of the show and the dialouge.it used to just be a crazy show that was about action and all that good shit, but this season its clearly a lot more.

Ganster: "George, the right plume".

Can we see the floor(s) of the Pentagon that the Boeing purportedly hit?

In other words, did it supposedly hit where the avalanche of debris is to the right of the right plume? Or above that? Below that?

It isn´t just a question of it being hit by a 757, it's a question of it being hit at 530 mph and then having been vaporized as per the official story. That is clearly a nonsensical fairy tale which can never be substantiated. When the FBI can´t produce those tapes as per FOIA the arrests should start.

George, I don't really know since I didn´t write the fable about a 757 having crashed there at 530 mph. The writers haven´t gone into any detail yet, they just say it crashed there and vaporized.

Some jokers at Purdue University even got a grant to write up nonsense about the plane turning into a "liquid column". Check it out for laughs.

Wayne Madsen has something new to tell about diplomatic 9/11 skepticism:

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

"i love the "ive done more then you have" thing... gold really loves it... to say these things is just lame.. how would you or anyone know what i or anyone else does everyday???"

Are you still yapping? We've moved onto bigger and better things.

DZ and Chris:

There was a Star Trek episode about 1 1/2 years ago where they unambiguously showed a false flag attack. It was awesome -- one alien species blowing up one of its own ships and blaming it on the "enemy" alien species to justify war.

does anybody have some info on Belgian European Parliament Member Paul Lannoye and what hes said about 9/11? thanks.

speaking of 24, heres a "Special Wingnut Edition" courtesy of This Modern World. Tom Tomorrow kicks ass.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/090506perspective.htm

Is Tom Tomorrow into 9/11 truth?

i would think he would be, hes a really smart dude, but he hasnt been explicit about it. hes only gone as far as LIHOP as far as i know, and even then it wasnt as far as it sounds.

Someone should send this to Tom:

http://www.strawandclover.com/

Jon,

the only reason why mainstream media does not write about CGI research yet or belittles it "to hurt the movement" is that the 9/11 perps will use the TV fakery again.

It is clean and simple and they will not give it up.

If this happens, you will regret that the truthlings sabotaged us for so long.

WESCAM is L-3 Communications, the same clan who are spying on us via NSA, Northrup Grummnan, Lockheed, Google etc..

Do you really think, they will give up on this? They're planning WW against China and Russia and the gatekeepers are talking about Iran...

Do what you think, you have to do.
I will continue my projects.

What really 'hurts', history will decide on this.

and a lot of government agents waiting to confiscate said tourists tapes. the FBI took the hotel and gas station tapes for a reason. what is that reason?

and within minutes of the crash as well. that should tell you something.

Nico... you didn't answer my question. What is the conclusion to your research?

A+B=C

What is A, what is B, and what is C?

After changing his position and admitting that it was possible that explosives were used, Rupport recommended not looking into it because it was a weak argument that could easily be discredited. he used the assination of Robert Kennedy asan example.
If we all listened to Rupport in the early days about ignoring the possible physical evidence of controlled demolition, we would not have the work of Steven Jones and many others.
Who knows where any invetigative angle might lead? Its the difference between scientific inquirery and PR, or the collection of all possible evidence and leads in a crime and the actual prosecution.

On that note,
Nico I like your articles investigation of the private corporations that might be involved, the technology they produce, their political connections and the mostly invisible workings of the NSA and others. I think that is a very worthwhile angle of investigation.

Could you summarize the main point of your article, suggest what further research is needed in this area and why it might shed more light on the criminals involved in 911?

Nico, i actually have read all of that by now, and i know what CGI is, but i still find your theory laughable. sorry. but who the hell am i? keep doing your thing if you think its right. i aint gonna stop you, im just gonna distance myself.

http://tinyurl.com/mh7hr

This is the same military camera system on a helicopter,
which provided us with the only live available footage (W-ABC 7) from
the second hit.

The name of the camera operator(s) and the pilot are unknown.

And here:
http://www.911closeup.com/nico/CGI/WABC1_CGI.jpg

THIS is where you and your truthling fellows believe in
since 4.8 years.

Any other 2nd hit clip (not shown LIVE!) and the other CGIs contradict with this in shape, size, behavior,
speed, incoming angle etc...

http://www.911closeup.com/nico/WABC_cam_identification.html
Camera for only live footage identified as military system

Noone on UniversalPictures forum was able to debunk anything of what i had to say or on any of my findings.

They had 2500 members over there.
All they can do is denial of TV fakery...

Even government shill skyking@ gave up.
Instead they think it might be useful to hack some of my projects again...

Nico. I'm giving us your chance to tell us what you think happened if those videos were fake. Please do. If they were to fake them, then there would be an obvious reason for them to do so. What would be their reasoning for faking those videos?

giving you...

Radical Pragmatist,

thanks for your feedback.

I try indeed to corner the issue from many different sides, including the investigative angle.

If we had the names of the WESCAM operators in the helicopters, we would be a few steps further. 16-18 -in this case clearly military choppers- are furthermore documented in Rick Siegel's footage, apparently part of the operation for the controlled demolition.

Fort Drum is a possible candidate, where they might came from, but i can't prove it yet.

For Jon:

A= The first second-hit footage was faked (W-ABC 7)

B= It contradicts with all other second hit clips in shape, size, speed, behaviour, geographical direction. The CGIs violate physical laws. The witnesses contradict each other. Amateur Footage does not show any planes at time of second hiyt

C= We have to expose this.

(I'm 120% behind all this and improve my findings and argument 24/7)

Jon,

i asked the same question from the beginning. I never believed in this other CNN long shot, where the CGI jumps at one particular point and circulates suddenly almost 45 degrees.

http://911closeup.com/nico/FAQ_planehuggers.html

...
The hypothesis is that all video footage which contains alleged commercial aircraft does not show real aircraft, but digital objects.
The main focus is therefore to figure out who faked it, how did they fake it, and why did they find it necessary to fake it.

The only clear conclusion is that no commercial aircraft, including "AA 11" and "UA 175”, hit any of the Towers.
It is also clear that no remote controlled Boeing hit any of the Towers and it is totally irrelevant what kind of military equipment remote controlled Boeings might have attached to their belly.

At
http://911closeup.com/nico/witness_contradictions.html
9/11 NY Aircraft 'Witnesses'

i am pointing out why all cherrypicked witnesses are useless.
I came up with my own list of 12-14 witnesses, which point on no plane at all. However since i'm focussing on TV fakery, i did this witness analysis only to refine my argument.

I usually refer to Don Dahler (ABC) who was in front of the Twin Towers and didn't see any plane:

Don Dahler vs. ABC
Dahler:
...i didn't see any plane going in...that...that's just exploded...i...
Gibson:
We just saw another plane coming in from the side.
Dahler:
You did?? I...that was ..was...out of my view...
Gibson:
That was a second explosion.
You can see the plane come in just from the right hand side of the screen...
(=> Dahler's witness report 'overruled' by a TV monitor)

I have also 3-5 amateur clips filmed by couples or buddies, who didn't see or comment on any plane.
I even have a DiVX top quality video of a dove which doesn't react until the fireball explosion, then scared and flies away....

But why is that more important than just to compare all mainstream videos we have? People are apparently too scared to watch these videos again...

I worked 10-12 years at TV, there is more fakery going on than what they actually did on 9/11. It was a lousy trick. Spielberg would have fired this guy...

ok Nico. lets see these 3-5 phantom clips you speak of. give us some links.ive read your stuff, im more than willing to take a look.

Jon,

Morgan Reynolds, Jimmy Walter and many 9/11 scholars are already on our side, including their own webmaster.

These are all smart people.
What is holding you?
911truth.org?

It's not the only damn organisation in this movling movement.
I think, 911blogger.com doing a much better job already.

We don't need a cult!! We have to break the matrix from within.

I was co-founder of ny911truth.org
Do you really i went through all this hassle to backstab this 'movement' with my findings?

I don't need to.
There was NEVER any disinfo in any of my articles since sep11th.

I have my own think tank, own 'therapy group', own fight group and own research forum.

I don't need to compensate what i do, i take the opportunity here to wake people up, before it's too late.

People in this movement can decide what they want:

truthlings, gatekeepers and planehuggers or the complete truth on everything.

nico,

i typically avoid the comments section (although today has been a very large exception), but after seeing your rather social discussion of the CGI theory I wonder if you might be willing to have a dialog with me on the subject via email?

i normally steer clear of the inner-arguements as i do not wish to get blacklisted by any group or another, so i usually don't debate topics personally, but if it could be friendly i would actually like to hear your opinions on a few different related subjects, which could in turn perhaps make your work on the subject more encompassing by covering frequent questions..

anyways, could we have such a discourse where i take the opposing viewpoint without the risk of me being labelled a 'plane hugger'? if so email me via the contact link on the left!

same with Morgan Reynolds.
Chris

Actually Chris if you followed the writings of Morgan Reynolds, you can see how attacking the person and not just the idea, forced him to write so much about the validity of investigating "no planes", just to defend his personal integrity.

In his public appearences I don't see him proclaiming this angle as the ultimate tool to exposing 911, if its even mentioned at all. If he did proclaim this I would be the first one to call him on it.

I find it strange that I seem to be defending any of the "no planes' theories, at the pentagon or the towers, because I'm not.
I personally haven't seen eneogh convincing evidence to fully support either theory, just alot of unanswered questions. I'll keep an open mind, but I do think we need to keep looking into it.

No leaders ! We all have different roles with the same aim....exposing the truth and holding these criminals accountable!

1. When a wide swath of liberal and democratic youth, activists, etc cut the 'what a bunch of conspiracy theorists' and jum on board the 9/11 Truth train...
when all of ai ramerica and liberal talk show hosts start questioning 9/11, and when a lot of Republicans start questionin git...then we'll know the truth is truly nearing it's head.
So far, it still feels like a niche conspiracy theory forte...much like "Bush lied about Iraq" was at first in 2002/2003.

Btw, Im surprised more people havent done guerrilla 9/11 truth adjamming/culture jamming. Remember the OBEY andre the giant campiagn? Imagine if everywhere ya wnet you saw 9/11 truth/investigate 9/11 stickers, posters, hijacked billboards, freeway overpass signs, etc. If every high school, college, bridge toll booth,
stadium, concert venue, public bathroom, etc was blanketed with 9/11 Truth stickers?

9/11 truth NEEDS to be something the average joe and young person can latch onto without feeling ashemed. Kids like to rebel, kids hate Bush, so what gives? Why they still think we are nuts, when youd have to be nuts to dismiss everything refuting the OV.

Oh yeah, and I am convinced Flight 77 hit the pentagon. How believeing Flight 77 hit the pentagon makes one a disinformed shill is beyond me.

No plane at the Pentagon is much different from 1 or 2 "fake planes" at the WTC.

The real planes at the WTC would (and did) work just fine.

Anything other than 2 real planes at the WTC looks like pure disinfo to me.

What would be their reasoning for faking those videos?

accuracy. what if a plane missed the wtc? they couldn't explode a tower and the entire plan would be shot.

ease. programming an image to insert in video from pre-positioned cameras would entail a lot less perpetrators and thus limit the number of things that could go wrong. (plus it would explain the lack of air-cover; how could they shoot down what might not even be there?)

expense? maybe that wouldn't be a factor.
_____----
here's a question: why do we never see images of the planes actually striking the towers? is it just too traumatic to show?

always the media cuts away at the last moment. there's always a photo of 175 as it's ABOUT to strike the tower, but you have to search for an image of it STRIKING the tower, and those images look fishy at best.

dz,
you can contact me at any time at
nicohaupt2@yahoo.com

I'm not here for a fight.
I follow the blogger brigade as a useful service.
The short debate is actually draining me a bit.

I survived some weeks with government shill skyking@ and 7 days at UniversalPictures, which was even much easier.

I will soon finish another project which might wake more people up.

I'm working on an updated link section for all videos.

We just found 14 (!) re-edited clips of the first generation (1-16), also NONE of them EVER shown live. Apparently there are some perps which try to multiply the myth again, since we became more popular.

However these newer re-edited clips are also helpful, because it proves, that most camera positions had been the same.

I also like the longer version of this here, where a new correspondent of mine did a 'zoom-in', to show that the CGI came out of "nowhere" !!!

http://www.file83.com/yeo/UA_175_thin_air.wmv
http://www.file83.com/yeo/UA_175_thin_air.mpg

OK.. no planes... there *are* arguments for CGI. Lets discuss for clarity sake.

Pro CGI:

"plane doesn't crumple upon impact"

Contra CGI:

airplane engine found in the street.

please GET READY TO RECORD TV

ABC TV avian flu - fatal contact
8pm NOW!! starting in 45 minutes

I'm not familliar with Blink 182, but the movie Turk 182 should, IMHO, be required viewing for all 911 truthers.

There are some people around here who continually conflate, among other things, the vast difference between pointing out logical/tactical failures/deficiencies (and pulled punches) and a "personal attack". (That's another aspect of observable cult-like behavior on the part of some 911 truthers.)
______________________________________

Anything other than 2 real planes at the WTC looks like pure disinfo to me.
Anonymous | 05.09.06 - 7:15 pm | #

pretty much.

"The only clear conclusion is that no commercial aircraft, including "AA 11" and "UA 175”, hit any of the Towers."

Ok. Then my questions to you are:

1) What happened to the actual planes that were carrying the actual passengers?

2) What about all of the eyewitness accounts? Living in New York, I'm sure it's not hard for you to find an "eyewitness" who could tell you what type of plane they saw. There are buildings filled with people who were focused on the towers after the first plane crashed.

3) Were all of the recordings from the FAA, etc... fake?

I have heard you say, most recently on the Webster Tarpley show, that there are 8 possibilities as to what actually hit the towers. In fact, I believe I heard the phrase "missile".

My last question is...

4) Do you think it wise to promote something other than planes, especially the second one which was photographed by SEVERAL people when trying to convince people that 9/11 was an inside job?

James Ha,

great point!

The risk factor was just too high.
What if they would have opened the wreckage and they had no passengers aboard?

9/11 was a live exercise terror drill.
The passengers got reboarded and grounded somewhere else, i.e. in Cleveland.

Even now, in 2006 Global Hawk isn't used for remote controlled 767s.
they use smaller planes.It just works better. You can't do these artistic maneouvres with a 767.

The FOX "lone gunman" episode (FOX!) was a plant to create the myth on remote controlled planes, ironically also filmed with a WESCAM and the better special effect.

But fact is you can't violate physical laws, not once not twice and not 4 times.

There was no plane.
Not in Shanksville, not in DC, not into the Twin Towers of NYC!

nico, do you have a site with a table of contents of your stuff?
______________

ABC TV avian flu - fatal contact
8pm NOW!! starting in 45 minutes
u2r2h | 05.09.06 - 7:19 pm | #
what is your obsession with this movie? its just standard fear mongering. gotta help Rummy make some more cash off of Tamiflu..........

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00036.htm

Jon,

i backed up from precise conclusions of what might have hit the South Tower.

It could have been a combination of microbic missile formation(s) for the south tower, which also includes several combinations of pre-planted explosions with pre-positioned unmanned vehicles.

North Tower is a missile plus something unknown. This clip wasn't faked.
They only removed frames.
I don't focus on the North Tower.
ray ubinger has the final smoking guns at 911foreknowledge.com

At team8plus.org we analysed different scenarios of where potential substitutes had been landed.

Cell phones do not work on planes.
There was no cell phone documentation for UA175 anyway.

The audio clip for "flight93" (2001, ATC) wasn't fake. It includes a real bomb exercise dialogue. No real hijacker aboard. Check team8plus.

They only manipulated the 2002 and 2006 transcripts, which also contradict each other on timeline and other details.

Furthermore Betty Ongs' call on "flight11" was possibly pre-recorded on another day and was obviously also from another terror drill exercise, but taped on "flight12"

I cannot go more into these details.
Please do your homework first, i might check in here from time to time, but maybe too busy later....

my props to Roger who's running this forum. We need more open minded people like him. Once you guys starting censorship, i am out!!

"There was no plane. Not in Shanksville, not in DC, not into the Twin Towers of NYC!"

Ok. And that's where you lose ANY and ALL credibility.

1. When a wide swath of liberal and democratic youth, activists, etc cut the 'what a bunch of conspiracy theorists' and jum on board the 9/11 Truth train...
when all of ai ramerica and liberal talk show hosts start questioning 9/11, and when a lot of Republicans start questionin git...then we'll know the truth is truly nearing it's head.
S

pockybot | 05.09.06 - 7:10 pm | #
still blaming liberals huh Pocky? do you ever stop? PNAC is a bunch of liberals right? and Fox News is liberal right? right?!?!?!?!? i dont know how many times i have to say this, establishment libs are the same as establishment conservatives. they all work for the same team. i find it laughable that you continue to blame Air America and establishment liberals in general for not "exposing 9/11".their checks come from the same place as Rush Limbaughs and all the other rightwing puppets come from.(in fairness, Malloy at least has spoken honestly about 9/11. how about those conservatives? any truth from the establishment conservatives yet? didnt think so.) yet you continue your crusade against liberals as if they are the problem.the MSM is the problem, not just "liberals". the whole fucking media. the media isnt liberal or conservative, its corporate.if the media was truly liberal, we would have seen a leftwing version of Fox News or CNN by now.im still waiting on that one.

Contra CGI:

http://home.debitel.net/user/andreas.bunkahle/jpg/Folie28.JPG

IF they made entry holes look like from airplane, (with explosives, how else?) but the structual elements look like being hit from outside, not like being exploded from inside. i.e. some metal-pieces are bent INWARDS

please GET READY TO RECORD TV

ABC TV avian flu - fatal contact
8pm NOW!! starting in 45 minutes

Contra CGI:

as seen here:

http://home.debitel.net/user/andreas.bunkahle/jpg/Folie28.JPG

IF they made entry holes look like from airplanes, (with explosives, how else?) ... the structual elements look like being hit from outside, not like being exploded from inside. i.e. some metal-pieces are bent INWARDS

please GET READY TO RECORD TV

ABC TV avian flu - fatal contact
8pm NOW!! starting in 45 minutes

just remember, all mainstream media tilts to the right, because the companys that own them tilt to the right. they are big corporations. the Republican party has traditionally been more accommodating to big corporations.(im not saying democrats arent either, just not as much) its not hard to figure out that the "liberal media" is a myth created by the likes of Limbaugh and morons like that.

airplane engine found in the street

jon carlson sez that engine is from a 737 engine but look in here (follow the links) and you wonder if maybe that engine wasn't already there behind yellow caution tape.

What about all of the eyewitness accounts?

i think there were as many eyewitnesses who saw a small plane or even no plane as there were 767's

especially the second one (plane)which was photographed by SEVERAL people

marcus icke shows us that EVERY image of 175 is phony, and how: ghostgun UA175
________________

Jon wrote:
"There was no plane. Not in Shanksville, not in DC, not into the Twin Towers of NYC!"

Ok. And that's where you lose ANY and ALL credibility.

So what was the purpose of Jon Gold's fake dialogue in the first place?
The truthlings have no ratio at all.
They pretend unity, where there isn't.

They have not the IQ to follow any clear argument.
And when they arm you, it's just to stab you a knife in the back.

That's why the orwellian dream became more true, than the 9/11 perps ever dreamt of.

The 9/11 truthlings have an astonishing ability to switch reality
on and off at will - more so than in Orwell.

They ignore contradictions and switch them as they like by not going insane at the same time.

This is a kind of double think.

Jon is either a complete idiot or completely brainwashed.

He will continue to insist that the 'truth' is on his side, no matter how precise the argument was laid out.

That reminds of a cultist, who is gatekeeping against its own fake leaders.

Jon hasn't the IQ to be a spook, so he must be brainwashed with the 'evasion technique'.

If we send the 9/11 truthlings general common sense musings
like Holmgren's article "Why they didn't use planes", you will complain that it's
speculative, and not backed up with hard sources. If we send you Holmgren's article
"WTC forensics" explaining briefly the physics of why it's impossible
for the WTC damage to have been caused by planes, you will say that it's "not
convincing" "not detailed enough". If we send you Morgan Reynolds's article which goes
into greater detail, you'll complain that it's "reams of information"
which you don't have time to read.

This is an ever present evasion technique.

Jon needs therapy
http://911closeup.com/nico/FAQ_planehuggers.html

Contra CGI:

The AIRPLANE PARTS:

http://www.rense.com/general70/318.jpg

http://www.rense.com/general70/southt.htm

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/aircraft.html

whats my fascination with bird flu?

Same as DICK CHENEY.. he has an intense interest in BIO/CHEM weapons!!

The film will be a MEDITATION PIECE, while watching this crap you will get ideas on where to look, what to focus on. The things THEY DON'T MENTION in the film may be very important.

This is NOT LOW BUDGET .. even though it was filmed in New Zealand...

please GET READY TO RECORD TV

ABC TV avian flu - fatal contact
8pm NOW!! starting in FIFTEEN minutes

pleeeeaasssee, someone!

email me at

u2r2h@gmx.net

if you only have a VHS tape, that you can send... I shall reimburse postage etc.