WTC7 Collapse to be Discussed by Experts on The View
This was posted on Rosie's Blog tonight:
http://www.rosie.com/blog/sections/ask-ro/
Posted by ro on May 14th at 10:39pm in ask ro
Evie writes:
Dear Ro, I would love to see a show with experts on both sides to discuss WTC7.Silly to always talk about it but never realy pursue the truth once and for all, don’t you think? Please?the show has been booked
Update from prisonplanet.com:
We have now come to understand that prominent 9/11 film makers and other activists within the movement are scheduled to appear on The View in upcoming weeks, as well as debunkers like Popular Mechanics, but that the two camps will appear on separate shows and not engage in a debate of any kind.
Expect a week long orgy of ad hominem attack pieces from Neo-Con attack dogs like O'Reilly, Hannity and the rest of the usual suspects.
http://tv.netscape.com/story/2007/05/15/wtc7-collapse-to-be-discussed-by-experts-on-the-view
- BrianH's blog
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bunch of other great
bunch of other great questions and responses on there too:
http://www.rosie.com/blog/sections/ask-ro/
nice find!
HOLY S**T !
I would have lost money betting that would NEVER happen!
AMERICA THANKS YOU ROSIE !
Lets just hope and prey it's
Lets just hope and prey it's a legit discussion and they get Steven Jones along with a structural engineer.
I would get David Ray Griffin on the show with Steven Jones
David Ray Griffin is a "must" participant on "The View". Especially considering he has just written a book "Debunking 9/11 Debunking" that rips the Popular Mechanics' and other 9/11 OCT suppositions to shreds. DRG and Steven Jones would be a great 9/11 Truth team.
"A patriot must be ready to defend his country against his government" - Edward Abbey
It's going to be
Steven Jones and Willy Rodriguez on one show, and then PM on another.
DRG would be PERFECT to have on after PM gets to offer their lies, having just written a book about it.
P.S. I hope they bring on James Miegs from Pop Mech when or if that show runs.. Rosie would trounce him in a debate.
____________________________
On the 11th day, of every month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nRs8cu5Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftruthaction...
Agreed... DRG needs to be on the View
It is too bad that this will not be in a debate format between representatives from Popular Mechanics and DRG/Steven Jones. DRG would eat them for breakfast. Rosie could also have his new book "Debunking 9/11 Debunking" available as a free handout for their audience. Better yet, give away DRG's other books including "The New Pearl Harbor", "Omissions and Distortions" along with the Popular Mechanics book and the 9/11 Commission Report. "Read for yourselves, people and come up with your own conclusions with the available evidence at hand. The goal is to gain agreement that a new, truly independent 9/11 investigation is warranted.
"A patriot must be ready to defend his country against his government" - Edward Abbey
I Will believe it when I see it
There has to be a catch here somewhere, like probably Judy Wood & Fetzer showing up as 9/11 truther representatives and given 3-5 mins total time all the while being attacked by that little Reich wing lunatic Elizabeth, meanwhile the next day every lying ass SOB paid shill gets 25 mins to present their lies.
Lets hope that it is honest, like equal time for all and have Steven Jones, David Ray Griffin, Kevin Ryan and at least one 9/11 family member along with at least one structural engineer Vs whatever lying POS the Treasonous bastards can scrounge up the next day.
I really don't think this is going to happen though, something is fishy.
Experts
In my opinion - Steven Jones is the best representative of the truth. Also - bring someone to represent the family members (preferably someone who filed a request with the NIST)
And if you want to call Jim Meigs of popular mechanics an "expert" then I guess he is an expert of lies. Either way - make sure to bring up Hearst publishing and yellow journalism. (Pop. Mechanics is published by Hearst - the definition of yellow journalism)
Thank you!
www.freewebs.com/springfield911truth
www.myspace.com/culturalrelativity
That would be Bob McIlvaine
That would be Bob McIlvaine.
www.northtexansfor911truth.com
Michael Chertoff
I think I heard something about Michael Chertoff being related to a high up person in Hearst Publishing or Popular Mechanic? Does anyone remember the facts on this? Aha - here it is.
Chertoff's Cousin Penned Popular Mechanics 9/11 Hit Piece
Chistopher Bollyn for American Free Press | March 7 2005
Dictators like Saddam Hussein have always used nepotism to protect their secrets and maintain control. Like a dictatorship, the inner cabal that directs the actions of the Bush administration uses the same tactics to confuse the public and conceal the truth of 9/11.
Dictators have always employed nepotism, the placing of family members in key positions, for one simple reason: only loyal family members can be trusted with the secrets that keep them in power. For this reason the shameless nepotism of the Bush administration should alarm Americans because it indicates that a dictatorship is encroaching upon the United States.
The Defense Department defines nepotism as the situation when relatives are in the same chain-of-command.
An egregious example of dictatorial-style nepotism occurred when George W. Bush won the White House ? twice ? thanks to the key "swing state" of Florida, where the presidential candidate's younger brother is governor. In 2000 and 2004, against all odds, Florida swung decisively, the Bush way.
With high federal offices being given to the wives, sons and daughters of senior members of the Bush administration, the Hearst Corporation executives that publish Popular Mechanics magazine probably didn't worry about the ethical considerations of hiring a cousin of Michael Chertoff, a former Assistant Attorney General and the new Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), as senior researcher.
But the March 2005 issue of Popular Mechanics (PM) plumbs new depths of nepotism and Hearst-style "yellow journalism" with its cover story about 9/11. PM's senior researcher, 25-year-old Benjamin Chertoff, authored a propagandistic cover story entitled "Debunking 9/11 Lies" which seeks to discredit all independent 9/11 research that challenges the official version of events.
"Conspiracy theories can't stand up to the hard facts," the cover reads. "After an in-depth investigation, PM answers with the truth," it says. But the article fails to provide evidence to support its claims and doesn't answer the key question: What caused the collapses of the twin towers and the 47-story World Trade Center 7?
The Chertoff article goes on to confront the "poisonous claims" of 16 "myths" spun by "extremist" 9/11 researchers like myself with "irrefutable facts," mostly provided by individuals in the employ of the U.S. government.
But who is Benjamin Chertoff, the "senior researcher" at Popular Mechanics who is behind the article? American Free Press has learned that he is none other than a cousin of Michael Chertoff, the new Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.
This means that Hearst paid Benjamin Chertoff to write an article supporting the seriously flawed explanation that is based on a practically non-existent investigation of the terror event that directly led to the creation of the massive national security department his "cousin" now heads. This is exactly the kind of "journalism" one would expect to find in a dictatorship like that of Saddam Hussein's Iraq.
Because the manager of public relations for Popular Mechanics didn't respond to repeated calls from American Free Press, I called Benjamin Chertoff, the magazine's "senior researcher," directly.
Chertoff said he was the "senior researcher" of the piece. When asked if he was related to Michael Chertoff, he said, "I don't know." Clearly uncomfortable about discussing the matter further, he told me that all questions about the article should be put to the publicist ? the one who never answers the phone.
Benjamin's mother in Pelham, New York, however, was more willing to talk. Asked if Benjamin was related to the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Judy said, "Yes, of course, he is a cousin."
www.freewebs.com/springfield911truth
www.myspace.com/culturalrelativity
DRG or even alex jones are
DRG or even alex jones are quicker with the facts than steven Jones. Alex might not be that great an idea in that he would scare women, but whoever gets in there has to really be able to regurgitate facts and make the points. Alex can really, really regurgitate. He's a regurgitationista.
considering we have a lot of
considering we have a lot of anti-alex jones types here that comment will likely get voted down but you are right on. say what you will about Alex Jones but even people who cant stand him were forced to admit how well he did on Showbiz Tonight. he stuck to the facts and came off as rational and extremely well informed.
it was literally the most explosive 5 minutes to ever air on CNN Headline News, 1 fact after another in rapid succession. still though, if he was to go on The View i would be worried that he would veer off from 9/11 and go into one of his "pet" issues/theories that he should probably keep to himself and his hardcore fans.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
i always give credit when it is due
AJ has his moments and that is great when he does and no doubt he has brought lots of people into the movement. My problem is when people assume that no one who does what AJ does could POSSIBLY be disinfo. I have a problem with groupthink--it's dangerous as hell when people feel that anything is off limits because that leads to self censorship. If I have to take shit for crapping on some people's favorite truth personalities I am happy to take that hit even if it means I will not be the most popular truther. Not to spin myself into a martyr but there are some issues here that transcend individuals and anyone who can't take the heat doesn't belong in the kitchen. I would rather risk being wrong and offending ten people than risk letting by a single disinfo agent. If I end up being wrong in my speculation so be it. My apologies will be forthcoming and heartfelt and I seriously doubt that my lonely voice is going to turn the world against someone who is legit.
Anyway Chris I take it we've agreed to disagree on this point so I'll stop stalking you now. Actually I do apologize for the comment about you "stalking" me over my criticism of AJ--it was frustration more than fact. I no more want to be the source of groupthik than I want anyone else to so I'm glad there will always be someone to disagree with me on those rare occasions when I'm wrong. :)
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
RT, 2 times i typed out
RT, 2 times i typed out these long eloquent responses and 2 times they got scrubbed because this site frequently goes haywire coupled with my shitty computer,haha. so i'll keep this one shorter. of course its possible that Alex Jones is disinfo. i wouldnt deny that, i just happen to think that he isnt. i think that he truly believes the bullshit that he spews(yes he spews some bullshit but i feel the good outweighs the bad with him) and the conclusions that he comes to. despite the fact that i defend him i actually disagree with Jones more than i agree with him. his style hurts his message,he jumps to conclusions that fit his views/theories,he focuses on illegal immigration and "the global warming myth" entirely too much, he pushes his religious views on people and hes a bit too paranoid. just because Alex Jones ignores certain info or comes to certain conclusions doesnt mean im going to ingore those same things and come to those same conclusions. though i know that some will and thats probably part of your point. point taken. criticism is fine, but when you call someone disinfo, to me, you should have specifics. i only "stalked" you because you kept taking vague shots without being specific. i asked you to be specific not because i was trying to draw out a certain answer or get under your skin but because i was genuinely interested. believe it or not RT i respect your opinion. but yes, we'll have to just agree to disagree on this one. and your apology is accepted, just let me apologize for my harsh tone the other day and for questioning your motives. truth is i agree with you MUCH more than i disagree with you. you'd be surprised how many times ive stuck up for you when the usual trolls cry "holocaust denier" and all that other bullshit about you. but tell me RT, you dont think im a victim of groupthink do you? :-)
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
Jones and Rodriguez Confirmed?
Jones and Rodriguez will make an excellent combo on the View, but wouldn't it be even more effective for Bill Doyle or Bob McIvaine to join Jones on the show. It is IMPERATIVE that the American public realize the families of the victims are the heart of this movement. The family members are who average Americans will connect with. In light of their recently submitted petition to NIST, Bill Doyle or Bob McIlvaine along with Jones would be perfect, if the show is going to feature a non-expert with an expert.
I don't mean at all to get down on William Rodriguez, he is truly incredible, but perhaps he should consider offering his position to Doyle or McIlvaine.
Coup at Popular Mechanics
I followed the link to this blog entry and began reading the comments. Somebody made a short post there advising Rosie to google "Coup at Popular Mechanics." So I did this- basically,so the story goes, a large portion of the PM staff, including editor in chief Joe Oldham, were ousted and replaced by James Meigs and his gang of OCT-friendly goons in Sept. 2004. Shortly thereafter, the famous debunking article came out.
Google mostly turns up links to an article by one Christopher Bollyn from Rense.com; most other references to "coup at popular mechanics" I found simply seem to link back to this original article. I wonder how much truth there is in it? Can anybody corroborate that there was indeed a purge at PM just in time to start debunking?
If true, this would explain a lot...
Truth
Of course it's true. A similiar and smaller occurrence happened at the NIST before they released the final report.
The NIST situation is troubling, not because of their findings, which are incorrect, but primarily because they are the consumer testing company who were hired to certify the steel in the first place. Back in the sixties, out of all the companies performing tests, NIST was the company selected to test WTC steel. NIST could not possibly be entirely trusted to give us an unbias report today. They might put themselves in jeapordy. It's simple, another testing company should have been given the 9/11 testing job; and on those grounds alone the report should be considered lacking credibility. Regardless, the old NIST told us the original steel was certified to withstand the heat intesity that the WTC fires produced, which the new NIST report estimated the fires at 800 degrees. How? What? The old NIST report certified that the steel would not weaken at 800 degrees. The new NIST report doesn't deny these test results, it simply ignores it. Notice one of the problems with the new NIST report? In one test they estimated the WTC fires at 800 degrees. In another test, seemingly unrelated, they managed to weaken one beam of steel causing a two inch sag. Yet they don't make reference to fact the WTC tempature test does not apply to the experiment which resulted in a sag. They also basically guessed two inches would be enough to cause the collapse of one floor, and totally disregared a formula which would compare the results to a total, unviversal collapse of 110 story collasal steel towers weighing 400,000 tons; they also failed to report their success required about five hours. They managed the entire experiment in a controlled environment ideal for optimum desired results, as well as ignoring the scale of the building and the easily measurable heat dispersment steel produces by conductivity. The NIST report is trash. Popular Mechanics is distorting the results further with a pulicist style spin in some pseudo authoritarian voice - as if. The magazine and everyone associated with it have been left hollow for the rest of their days.
For the real story on NIST, Kevin Ryan's experience working for the company says a lot about the truth:
Kevin R. Ryan Terminated at Underwriters Laboratories
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Kevin-R-Ryan22nov04.htm
Kevin Ryan's personal story: Underwriter Speaks Out On WTC Study
http://www.letsroll911.org/phpwebsite/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_u...
Kevin Ryan debunking NIST...
A NEW STANDARD FOR DECEPTION
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=718236659434732032
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
Excellent video CattleRustler...
One that always try to recommend, gives excellent insight into the NIST "experts" and the cover-up.
Another good one is Steven Jones recent (14-Apr-2007) presentation in Austin, Texas.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4549750234983943323&q=Steven+Jones
Best wishes
Yep, and
the one you posted is another late and great one as well.
Having also seen Richard Gage's presentation, and hearing his interview with Cosmos, I have no doubt that a grandslam team for the View would be Kevin Ryan, Richard Gage, and if a third is allowed I'd say Steven Jones. That would be a killer team for tv.
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
View's Average Audience - 3.4 million !!!
I'd like to know the date this show is booked for and who the guests are... but here's a sample of the potential audience numbers.
O'Donnell brings big ratings to 'The View'
Daytime talk show nabs best-ever November sweeps
"The View" also scored record ratings in the total viewer category, attracting an average aud of 3.4 million viewers -- up 15% vs. the same frame in 2005.
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117955333.html?categoryid=14&cs=1
Wow
-
Eh... I'd be more excited if
Eh... I'd be more excited if they'd get Paul Thompson and the Jersey Girls on the show..
In my opinion its more beneficial to 911 truth to keep picking apart and questioning the so-called "incompetence" leading up to and on that day
I have a feeling this "debate" will be (yet) another underwhelming water-treading exercise..
Bombs and bullshit....
I agree
I agree, its better to attack w/ facts than speculation (at least perceived speculation).
But it's not a debate
It's not a debate. They are coming on the show on different days.
Can't Stop 9/11 Fever
I bet my last dollar that the shills made the stipulation that
....there NOT be a debate, and required a separate show to parade their smoke and mirrors.
I hope they have that "275 degree collapsing stove" demonstration, Elizabeth is so keen on.
ROSIE, PLEASE PLAN AHEAD.
Make sure your "experts" are up to the task of debating and answering questions on the fly. Tell them to rehearse!! We want better results than we've had out of other MSM appearances!! The bedunkers will use doublespeak!!! Get your "experts" to study this propagana mumbo-jumbo and be ready to twist words back to the side of truth! Their own doublespeak can backfire and make them look dumb if you are prepared to subvert it. PREPAREDNESS. Proactive approach to the debate, NOT reactive.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Consciousness
You are the man. You ALWAYS hit the nail on the head. Every F'in time. Good work brotha.
We have to look at this info war the way our enemies see it: as a match-for-match chessgame. If anyone is not familiar with Meria Heller, I'd suggest googling her presentations in Arizona and Chicago, especially Chicago. Her delivery is as sharp as a whip which is exactly what is needed.. I'm sorry to say, many of our spokespeople do not possess this ability to get "right to the point", with the exceptions of David Griffin and Alex Jones, the latter of whom definitely screams too much, and...well, I'm not even so sure about Webster Tarpley anymore after that abysmal appearance on H&C. And now it's being said on the Loose Change forums that Webster is supporting Dennis Kucinich who is seeking to destroy the 2nd Amendment and playing footsy with the 9/11 truth movement, or was...I'm not too sure where that ever went. Of all people, "anti-shadow gov't" Tarpley should be the FIRST one to spot this apparent hypocrisy of supporting a shady democratic candidate who hasn't made one promise to the people he supposedly represents. What is he thinking?
Thanks for the kind words.
Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed in Kucinich too, but it really doesn't matter that much. The elections will be tampered with, and the office of president only has as much power as the shadow-dwellers allow it. We need to put the idea of some candidate-savior completely out of our heads. Not that we shouldn't be pushing for fair elections and good leaders, but we must realize that is only one small element in this battle. We have much to do to repair and strengthen democracy, and this will demand constant effort from WE THE PEOPLE, most likely for the rest of our lives. We are witnessing the re-emergence of feudalism, adapted to the 21st century and puffed up on steroids. We are facing a global fascist dictatorship. Sounds crazy, I know, but just look at all the trends and all the facts.
Tarpley has done a lot of good, but I wonder about him... He is pushing the global warming and peak oil "hoax" message almost as hard as 9/11 Truth. Cui bono? Oil companies maybe? These are non-issues!! We've have to get off oil for a million reasons!! GW or no GW, peak or no peak!! And then this "Angel is next" business. Cui Bono? BUSH!! Why on earth would he be trying to absolve Bush of guilt?
Marvin B. + Wirk Walker + Securacom, Jeb + PNAC, Jeb + elections, Dubya was conveniently hiding out in his bro's state on 9/11, hijackers were training in FL, Bush clan/bin Laden clan, Carlyle group, Bush Sr. + CFR, Bush Sr. + Regan assassination attempt, Bush Sr. + Kennedy assassination?, Prescott + the Nazis... THEY'RE GUILTY WEBSTER!!!!!!!!!!
Plus, "Angel is next" is a HIGHLY SPECULATIVE piece of evidence. That could mean a thousand different things! We have plenty of solid evidence, why would we want to get sidetracked into heavy speculation? And how did Webster authenticate that statement again?
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Tarpley goes in and out of
Tarpley goes in and out of nutty stuff that nobody knows about. He did that on the infowars thing that c-span covered and it looked bad. He's not fast enough on his feet. Who said up above that there is a female who really gets the facts out quick? That would be perfect if it's true. Housewives would eat this up. Anyone got a link to this lady spitting out the facts? Who is this Meria Heller? The Jersey girls would make people walk on eggshells. View viewers would like them, but they wouldn't want to go "inside job" very much.
Very Good Points
We've all heard the debunkers talking points many times before, but some may not have. Make no mistake, Rosie is very smart and can handle herself, especially if shes aware of the debunkers tactics and double-talk.
I like Jones but
Jones is ok, but he is very slow talker and too mild for an effective MSM priceless debate. I would say get richard gage, jim hoffman and Kevin Ryan.
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if Pop Mech will be on
Griffin must be on. Otherwise it's a bunch of hooey. Griffin has written the best and most popular books to date on this subject. Any attempt to have filmmakers or activists go on for our side will be, IMHO, a travesty and a deliberate attempt at making us look bad.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
we have no control! It's been "booked"
Presumably, Rosie already knows who will be on. And so do the people who have been chosen. Probably the CIA front Popular Mechanics on one show, but one wonders who will be representing 9/11 truth? And which side gets to GO FIRST???
Jim Hoffman is brilliant but not a great public speaker. But if it were a debate with the PM guys, I'd want him on the team.
But it is NOT a debate. And I would bet that Truthers will have to go first and then they will be DEBUNKED by the Pop Mechanics. So, as for presentation, Gage would be a good choice as he is an architect; Jones might be good, but there are now some engineers who might be able to lay out the case quite well.
Griffin would be a good partner on a team to lay out the big picture. Anyone heard William Rice? --http://www.vermontguardian.com/commentary/032007/TwinTowers.shtml
Ok, then this is what you do...
If our side has to ge first, then later be "debunked" this is the strategy...
Get our reps to give a solid presentation on the facts that support our case. Then devote about 1/3 of the time to deconstructing the bedunkers BS.
"Now, Popular Mechanincs is probably going to try to tell you *so-and-so*, and *yada yada*, but this is why that can't be true..."
"And did you know that the guy in charge of the debunking articles over at PM is Michael Chertof's cousin?"
"Popular Mechanincs isn't a formal scientific journal. They need to submit their "findings" for peer review."
Pick apart NIST for a minute or two. Geez, just show them that John Gross video!!! That will be the end of the debate!
Seriously though, if we have to go first, we should spend some of the time poking holes in PM's most likely talking points. If we go second, we get to see what they said and do the same. We'll just have to be a bit more careful and guess what they will use as ammo if we go first.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Rosie is the constant.
ROSIE!!! If they are trying to avoid a face to face debate whit REAL scientists, YOU have to be informed and ready to call them on their BS. You can do it Rosie, you were looking good on air the other day. Study up on the facts, and on their propaganda an tricks of the tongue. Shut 'em down, Rosie! Don't let them get away with any lies. Don't leave any unfounded assertions unchallenged.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Indeed.... Rosie has a huge homework assignment before this show
The first assignment for Rosie is to read DRG's "Debunking 9/11 Debunking".... twice or three times if necessary.
"A patriot must be ready to defend his country against his government" - Edward Abbey
DAvid ray griffin
is the best, him and jones would make a good tag team.
NO DEBATE PLANNED
According to an Alex Jones site, each side will be given an uniterrupted opportunity to present their case. (One episode each)
"We have now come to understand that prominent 9/11 film makers and other activists within the movement are scheduled to appear on The View in upcoming weeks, as well as debunkers like Popular Mechanics, but that the two camps will appear on separate shows and not engage in a debate of any kind."
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/140507rosiesoundsoff.htm
HOW MUCH DOES ANYONE WANT TO BET THAT A TECHNICAL GLITCH OR OUTRIGHT CANCELLATION WILL PREVENT THIS 'DEBATE' FROM HAPPENING?
THERE IS AN EXTREMELY CONTROVERSIAL WAR IN IRAQ UNDERWAY THAT RELIES TOALLY ON THE PRESERVATION OF THE 9/11 MYTH.
HOW MUCH DOES ANYONE WANT TO
HOW MUCH DOES ANYONE WANT TO BET THAT A TECHNICAL GLITCH OR OUTRIGHT CANCELLATION WILL PREVENT THIS 'DEBATE' FROM HAPPENING?
That's what I'm afraid of but I'm glad there having them on seperate shows. I can't stand listening to anyone who talks popular mechanics crap. It's like listening to Elizabeth on the View talking about how great George Bush is and Volcanos falling on WTC7. Nails on a chalk board. Can't stand it. I hope nothing goes wrong though. And if Anything does happen, I'm sure Rosie will mention it on her Blog.
"We interupt the View with this Breaking News...
"... President Bush has launched a pre-emptive strike on Iran in what is being described as a ..."
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"Cogito ergo sum"
F*****ing Bushit!
That would be absolute shit scenario!
_____________________________
You can't hide a lie for long. Truth shall come out.
What is sad is that is definitely in the realm of possibility...
"A patriot must be ready to defend his country against his government" - Edward Abbey
I'll take that bet
I will propose a counter bet that the 9/11 truth side will be represented by people who have written no books on the subject. Any takers?
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
real truther,
take a deep breath and stop being so negative!
It's not negative...
When you see it coming down the pipe from a mile away. I too was told to stop being negative when I was skeptical of Dennis Kucinich's 'so called' efforts to look at 9/11 Truth. And as far as I can tell, I was absolutely correct.
I saw it coming. All one has to do is look at the press release and the details and language used.
What I don't agree on is the title of this blog says "experts' will discuss the collapse of the WTC. Then the article says "filmmakers and activists".
I think the negativity might just be a realistic prediction based on observation of past 'events' like this and observation of the language used.
It might be too early to make a judgment either way but my instinct is that Rosie and The View had to make a compromise to even get this on the air and that compromise is what will decide how this 'debate' goes. I don't even know why I'm calling it a debate.
It's like the Popular Mechanics VS. Loose Change 'debate'. It wasn't a debate. It just wasn't.
Can't Stop 9/11 Fever
Filmmakers and activists?
I think some negativity is called for, from the sound of that. I've really given the LC boys the benefit of the doubt in the past, but if they agree to do this (this is pure speculation) I will assume they have put pimping their movie ahead of 9/11 Truth. Sofia, of 9/11 Mysteries, has WAAAAAAY too much affinity for Eric Hufschmid, Judy Wood, and Jim Fetzer. (Again, for people preparing to tear my head off, let me clarify: movie=good; filmmaker as spokeswoman=big problem.) As for activists... unless that activist has a doctoral-level background in physics or extensive work experience at UL or is appearing with someone like that to back him/her up, that activist is not qualified to talk on national tv about WTC 7.
Improbable Collapse?
I always thought that Michael Berger did a fine job on camera. But this shouldn't be another popularity contest- lay out the facts with calmness and confidence and many will start to get it.
Extremely excellent points
You're dead right. I love sofia for what she has created in 9/11 mysteries, and the LC boys are bad-ass, but none of them should be up there debating scientists or even the perceived "experts" of PM.
boys?!
Kids, or guys will do just fine Casseia. When you call them boys you inject sexism into the mix... "Boys will be boys" and all that. As for Sofia I admit I haven't really seen or heard her talk about anything outside of the film (what a soothing voice!) Does she really give too much attention to Uncle Fetz and Eric "Jumper earring" Hufschmid? If so, shame on her! But goddang she has a soothing voice!
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Oh, for god's sake.
I hear the shrill, mosquito-like whine of the mascunazi. When are you people going to learn that issues like human rights and respect for diversity don't HAVE ONE DAMN THING to do with 9/11 Truth? Way to dilute the agenda, buddy. Must be "that time of the day" for ya, huh?
fine, but PLEASE stop mentally undressing all the men here
your "female gaze" is really starting to intimidate us!!
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
I try TJ but it's damn hard when I see things like this
As someone who is regualrly out in the street trying to educate people I REALLY don't want to see a replay of Amy Goodman's LCvsPM debate debacle. It's hard enough being taken seriously without having to go against the perception of millions of View'ers that I am just some guy who saw Loose Change. I'm sick of that shit.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
My sentiments exactly.
It's hard enough being taken seriously without having to go against the perception of millions of View'ers that I am just some guy who saw Loose Change. I'm sick of that shit.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Stop being so negative?!?!
LOL, RT's an optimist compared to myself. I smell something fishy here, there's no way in hell ABC's going to give the truth the equal footing that they will give the Shills. Wanna bet?
if I were a team player Big_D
I'd want you on my team to balance my sometimes irrational exuberance... :)
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
I understand where you're
I understand where you're coming from, and I wouldn't be surprised either if the scales are turned against our favor. I just meant to not be negative about the movement as as whole. We've made great strides and there ain't no stoppin us!
Rosie...
All I ask is that you do not have any of the following individuals on:
Jim Fetzer
Nico Haupt
Rick Siegel
Judy Wood
My recommendations would be to have Prof. Jones and Kevin Ryan on to debate Popular Mechanics. 9/11 Family Members Bill Doyle and Bob McIlvaine would be an excellent addition as well. They recently filed a petition against NIST.
Edit: According to www.prisonplanet.com, you're going to be having different film makers and activists on. I would like to be on Rosie.
It's Not The Crime That Kills You, But The Cover-Up
Excellent Advice
The best physical evidence combined with family members is a sure fire political doorstop. I read Dr. Jones' paper last night and didn't see any mention of "volcanic pressure" being responsible for the pools of molten metal. That statement by "LIz" is the stupidest thing I've ever heard on television, and I'm old.
hahah volcanic pressure
What a conundrum.
The 'official conspiracy theorists' use language like this and yet it is counter to their own beliefs that the buildings just 'gave' because of fire'.
When I look at those 'collapses' I see something that just might be called 'volcanic pressure'. Those buildings are destroyed and pulverized before our very eyes.
I have not read much by Dr. Jones but I was impressed with his latest paper.
Can't Stop 9/11 Fever
i think volcanic pressure
is a misunderstanding of pyroclastic flow. indeed a pyroclastic flow is caused by the outward pressure of the superheated dust cloud into the cooler and less dense air. Lizzie is probably just having trouble wrapping her head around the science. Mind you this is not because she is a woman--it's because she's just not very smart. Not unlike a lot of people who we need to explain these things to so be patient! By the time we get to these bottom of the barrel types we should have a comfortable majority, though, so there is hope!
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
LOL
_________________________________
Morgantown 9/11 Truth
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
Judy Wood, and Jim Letzer...
sorry but if we're going to descend into this kind of nonsense, let's do it right! :)
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
fetzer is actually a super
fetzer is actually a super genius and a GREAT debater. He was my favorite 9/11 Truther before he switched to the dark side...I dunno what happened...
"...the dark side..."??
Is that how you describe someone who is keeping open all avenues of investigation?
and not just the ones that have been been given the stamp of approval by the 9-11 thought police?
yea well
Ok, I heard the jury is still out on science?
What ol Uncle Fetz needs to do is present evidence.
Him and Ms. Wood love the DEW theory at the exclusion of all others.
Okay, well if laser beams (mazers, lasers, and plasmoids, oh my!) were the culprits, I would imagine that they either came from
a) aliens, or
b) space-based weapons
Who do we know that is very familiar with space-based weaponry? Well, for starters, we know that Dennis Kucinich tried to pass a law banning such weapons, so perhaps on the drawing board somewhere, they might actually exist!
Hmm, who else? Oh, I heard Dr. Robert Bowman has some knowledge of similar matters. Does HE support the "work" of the Woods-Fetzer-Reynolds trifecta?
I havent heard a peep from the man.
Oh, also, Chander, one last thing. I do believe that the term 'dark side', was actually more of a reference to James Fetzers ad hominem attack style in which he has attempted to besmirch the good name of professor Steven E Jones, IN CONJUNCTION with what many in the loosely connected group of people known as the 9/11 Truth Movement consider to be junk science, which should be set on the same shelf with such gems as the NIST report.
Cheers
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Morgantown 9/11 Truth
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
Wood, Reynolds and Fetzer doing important research
You do not seem to have much familiarity with the positions of Profs. Fetzer and Wood. If you did you would know that they present directed energy weapons as a HYPOTHESIS only, due to the fact that none of the existing theories (such as thermite-thermate) cannot account for the extreme degree of dustification of the buildings.
Using terms like "aliens" and "space beams" are prejudicial terms more commonly found coming from such as Hannity and O'Reilly.
You would also know that Wood and Fetzer have uncovered evidence that the Pentagon has been experimenting with top secret beam weapons, so it is only logical to present this as a POSSIBLE explanation for what happened, but it could also have been some other kind of exotic weaponry.
BTW "ad hominem attacks" are attacks against the man for faults having nothing to do with the man's research. Fetzer has not engaged in ad hominem attacks against Stephen Jones. He HAS engaged in criticisms of Jones' science. Are you saying he is above criticism?
You raise an interesting question about Bowman's views. He is eminently qualified to know about military technology. I would be very surprised if he shared the animosity to Wood's research that is so prevalent among the many would-be thought police who inhabit this website.
ROSIE, if you're reading this...
Please go with Kevin Ryan and one of the family members who filed the petition with NIST.
Kevin Ryan would be better than Steven Jones or any other because he is a whistle blower and lost his job - he has been personally affected by this. Two or three people who have been personally affected by this is what's going to win your daytime audience. AND that they know EXACTLY what they're talking about, in other words you can feel the truth oozing from them, AND that they've made a legal petition to NIST seeking corrections to the NIST report. When a man who lost his job to expose controlled demolition and a man who lost his son in that controlled demolition are on National Television talking about that controlled demolition, everyone's jaw will drop.
Crucially, the world needs to know that 9/11 Family Members are at the heart of this movement, not "offended" by it.
Bob McIlvaine
I heard him say in an interview that he has read about 200 books about 911.
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geu9jiJkpGwBcAcL9XNyoA?p=bob+mcilv...
www.northtexansfor911truth.com
What happens...
If the Government comes out and says, "Based on new information, we were able to ascertain that "evil muslims" planted explosives in the towers, and probably in WTC7 as well. Thank you Stephen Jones, you are a hero?" Just curious. Didn't Bush recently talk about Khalid Sheikh Mohammad and explosives?
It's Not The Crime That Kills You, But The Cover-Up
By now, I don't think most
By now, I don't think most people would buy it.
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911dvds@gmail.com - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info
I'm amazed...
At what people buy sometimes. Just to hold on to their safe fantasies.
It's Not The Crime That Kills You, But The Cover-Up
I only wish they would, Jon.
'They' would effectively be saying PM, NIST, FEMA & all the 'debunker' parrots never had a fucking clue. Think that wouldn't make a lot more folks scratch their heads?
Rosie...
Go with David Ray Griffin!
He is still free of the taint from not having appeared on O'Leilly or Insanity & Colms. Plus he is the most rational, lucid and logically accurate of all the 9/11 truth EXPERTS in my humble opinion. There is nothing "kooky" about DRG whatsoever. He's your man for 9/11 truth!
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"Cogito ergo sum"
dissappointed
I'm disappointed.
Rosie should have EXPERTS to debate the physics of 9/11. Do simple physics make the official explanation impossible or not?
Film makers and activists appearing one day then another day of official conspiracy theorists calling the conspiracy theorists...conspiracy theorists...and moon bats..
Shit I'll just go listen to Alex Jones then go over to Fox News and watch Bill 0rielly to get my dose of this.
I have a first draft of a letter I am going to mail to physics professors around the country.
I just don't undrestand why, if it's a matter of simple physics, there are not physicists ready to go on the view.
sometimes I'm afraid we have the wrong mouth pieces representing the 9/11 Truth movement. Maybe 'wrong' is not the right word. Maybe "I'm afraid the mouth pieces for the 9/11 Truth movement are just not effective".
IMHO
Can't Stop 9/11 Fever
get some real experts.
"....9/11 film makers and other activists"
Lets not start calling this a debate. Film makers don't debate physics or building collapses. Physicists and mechanical engineers debate the collapse of the building.
More of the same...more of the same....
Can't Stop 9/11 Fever
hear hear jpass
I'm getting nauseated just thinking about the potential debacle here.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
i agree, it would be pretty
i agree, it would be pretty dissapointing if we had to hear Dylan and Jason try and discuss WTC7 when we could have just as easily had Steven Jones or Kevin Ryan do the same much better. though its not a debate and they wont be on at the same time as the PM shills it still wouldnt be good. Loose Change has its place and this isnt it. i hope that if they are the ones that are contacted to appear that they do the right thing and urge them to have Jones,Ryan,Griffin etc. on instead.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
good point Chris
"they should do the right thing" EXACTLY.
I suppose we DO agree sometimes...
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
haha, probably more than you
haha, probably more than you think.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
Damn, no truther should merely discuss WTC-7 on The View!
They need to play some video of that behemoth imploding & Silverstein saying he & the fire chief pulled it!!! That would wake people up!
Great News!
:)
Justin A. Martell
www.sst911.org
In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand at the mongrel dogs who teach! Fearing not that I'd become my enemy in the instant that I preach! My pathway led by confusion boats...mutiny from stern to bow!
Say whhhhhaaaaaattttttttt?
Drummerboy
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You can't hide a lie for long. Truth shall come out.
"prominent filmmakers"???
Uhhhh... is this going to be a rematch between loose change and PM? Because if so, I cry major BS. Get Griffin on there against Meigs. Filmmakers? FILMMAKERS? GRIFFIN. GRIFFIN. Or Kevin Ryan! We do NOT need ANY filmmakers going up against Meigs and PM. With this show and its viewers it will be as much about perceived credibility as it is about the facts.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
"filmmakers"
Yeah, I cringed when I saw that too. This could turn out to be very, very disappointing.
I sure hope Rosie has a copy of DRG's "Debunking 9/11 Debunking". She has to be on top the arguments used by the so-called debunkers and the mainstream media.
i'm drawing a line in the sand
Based on how the View decides to approach this--if indeed they are going to stack the "debate" against us by not putting forward our most respected voices, the gloves are going to come off big time.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
research she has done on the issues
I don’t think Rosie Wants to lose a debate with popular mechanics it all depends on the research she has done on the issues who she thinks would represent 9/11 truth the best? In my opinion is it should be Griffin and Jones that’s it !!! I trust them so far I think they are Squeaky Clean.
The loose change kids is not a good choice that would be a wet dream for popular mechanics.
I agree completely...
In my opinion, David Ray Griffin is the best spokesman for 9/11 Truth out there, bar none. Rosie needs to get him on the show. Steven Jones would be good as well from a scientific standpoint. However, Jones needs to be more assertive and forceful. In his past presentations that I have seen, he comes off as a bit "milquetoasty" and chuckles a lot.
"A patriot must be ready to defend his country against his government" - Edward Abbey
Unfair to the Loosechange guys
It is my belief that Avery and Bermas threw the debate. The demeanor of the LC guys seemed to suggest that they were having a laugh at the expense of Roberts and Wieck. How can you win a debate with obfuscators and agents?
I disagree
It was AMy Goodman having a laugh at the expense of the guys, and all of us. Watch it and look at the smirk on her face.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Like I said...
How can you win a debate with obfuscators and agents. I will say that there are many great proponents of "9/11 truth" who have intense professional skills at presenting information who may be better suited to the task. The reason why I posted to this subthread was that the comments seemed overly personal and slagging in nature and therefore a waste of the general energies of the forum.
how? easy.
Do your homework. Find their weak spots (they have many) Call them out on their obvious BS. Don't say things like Ï'm not calling anyone a liar, I'm calling YOU a liar." Do we really need to go point by point? Read Debunking 9/11 Debunking to get an idea of what someone who actually prepared for a debate with PM could have done to them. This is not about slagging for slagging's sake, it is about what is best for getting the truth out. This is not a game or a popularity contest. The loose change guys come off as very cool, there is no doubt, but that will not cut it in this case, where substance and credibility is everything.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
I agree with some of the points you make
However, a profile of the Loosechange guys would be a good move for "The View"s initiative, in this case, because LC Final Cut will most likely be an important movie and is from all indications is definitely enhancing a move to "truth" regarding 9/11 issues.
Therefore advertising for LC final cut, in the context of the well watched "The View, will have a great impact that we will all welcome. I think time is scheduled for the experts.
Also, where would the movement be without all of "The Film Makers".
Not sure of your use of the word "liar" Could you explain this usage.
we'll see I guess
there are any number of ways where this could be a GOOD THING OR BAD THING, ONLY TIME WILL TELL AND i'LL RESERVE JUDGEMENT UNTIL WE SEE HOW IT GOES. THE "LIAR" QUOTE IS jASON bERMAS (OOPS) sorry too lazy to rewrite--JB to one of the PM shlls during the Democracy Not debate. It was funny and I could sympathize but it just made 9/11 truth look silly. I know what he meant was "I'm not calling (just) anyone a liar, I'm calling you (specifically) a liar" but the way it came out just made him sound frustrated and like he couldn't actually explain why the shill was lying. I normally give people the benefit of the doubt but ever since getting into activism especially 9/11 activism I've become much more demanding--because it's not me I'm doing this for'--I and we all in fact owe a lot of people a great deal--we have a lot of shit to make better because in the end we all failed when this happened. We could have been out on the streets in 2000 standing up to the right wing plants who made it seem like their side had the energy and emotions because they were right. Where were we? I couldn't be bothered at that time to get off my ass. Now I will not be making any mistakes if I can help it, and that means being an asshole sometimes I realize.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Thanks for clarifying
To some extent you bear an interesting similarity with Dr. Keven Barrett in the way you analyse information. While I dont always agree
with you, I acknowledge that you do elevate the level of discussion around here. Hard hitting debate is also useful in stimulating various actors to "raise their game" and be as
accurate as possible regarding the facts.
I like Kevin a lot, thanks.
And I'm glad you see things that way because that's exactly what I think he's all about, and what I also try to do. We need to broaden the terms of all of our debates and KB does that in a very particular way. He's basically a msulim comedian and as such helps people get past the stereotype of the radical and/or devout muslim. I've even thought that he could be some kind of agent because what he does is actually so subversive. If he is I'm happy to play along because I think Islam could do with some lightening up--ALL religious people could. I see KB as a bridge builder extraordinaire, and only take issue when those bridges are kept open to people like Jim Fetzer. And you're also right that we have to force each other to constantly raise our games. If we can't defend our views from strong and ruthless attacks then we will not fare well in the mainstream debate. I'm not saying I ever pretend to disagree when I don't, I just like challenging people to make their best points and that can only be done when nothing is off the table... Anyway, thanks again for the kind words and let's keep this ball rolling!
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
a let down
If they keep to that format and have no debate, that'll offer full control to the controllers of the media. They will, of course, end the "series" with a DEBUNKER from Popular Mechanics and it will seem to wrap up all the accusations by the nutty conspiracy nut professors. SO tired of this "journalism."
Of course, I'll be happy to see exposure of the real issues if someone like Prof Jones actually gets a chance to speak.
But remember how boobus america thinks....they're looking for something to make them comfortable and not as scared, so when they end it with the popular mechanics guy, they'll feel that everything is tied up and perfectly refuted. They'll go home to watch the next episode of Oprah, and we'll be out here grinding our teeth.
It MUST be a debate.
Reminds me of some show on the OK city bombing. It seemed amazing because so much of what I've read on the internet regarding mysteries from that day were actually addressed....they even had a former US general who felt it was an inside job. Then at the end of the show, they made him look like an idiot and "PROVED" that it was most like the way the govt told us it happened.
bullshit... so sick of the bullshit.
I've learned to expect it
I've learned to except it by now. It's been decades since the Oklahoma Bombing and going on 10 for 9/11.
The main stream media is going to start an official debate into the attacks of 9/11NOT!.
Borat reference there.
Can't Stop 9/11 Fever
Really doesn't matter what happens on the View.
Because I'm not going to stop either way. Any one else feel the same???
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Rosie, cover the wargames!
I hate to sound like Mike Ruppert since I know CD has brought a monster amount, maybe a majority, to 9/11 Truth...but, instead of 110% focus on demolition, which turns into a pissing contest of whose expert you believe, they cannot dispute that wargames were being run that day, that a guy who allegedly gave $100gr to Mohammed Atta before the attacks (General Ahmad) met with our intel leaders that day, and that an amazing woman named Sibel Edmonds who says she knows how the attacks were financed is being gagged. Do you think that ditz Elizabeth Hasselbeck will have any response if Rosie mentions wargames left our air defenses open and paralyzed fighter response? NO! But instead, on CD, she can just reach into the trick bag of NIST.
thats a great point. Rosie
thats a great point. Rosie really should make a point of mentioning some of the other 9/11 anomalies so that the viewing audience knows that CD is far from the only problem with the official story. theres so much to choose from. we win the CD argument if its a fair fight but it doesnt hurt to point out just how much evidence we have overall.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
I think focus is in order though
Although I don't totally disagree that other anomalies should be looked at I think this is not the time.
9/11 Truth will only get a few minutes of exposure here. Focus on the topic at had, the collapse of the wtc buildings. Instead of a broad flurry of anomalies, let's have a real look at the physics behind the buildings collapses.
Prove that the 'official theory' of the collpases is impossible. Hell, we probably would be better to not even address 'alternate theories'. That debate always goes like this...
Pop Mech. : "So if you don't believe us experts, then HOW DID THEY GET BOMBS IN THE BUILDING?"
or
"Do you REALLY THINK that they put bombs in burning buildings?"
The debate turns around onto 9/11 Truth which is in no position to answer any of these questions. But we can tear the 'official version' of the collapses to threads.
9/11 Truth does not have to answer one god damn question about what they 'think' happened.
Focus on the 'official theory' of the collapses and tear it up. That should be the goal, IMHO.
Can't Stop 9/11 Fever
no, i agree that first and
no, i agree that first and foremost should be a genuine discussion of controlled demolition but it should at least be noted by whoever they have on that the collapses are only one aspect of whats wrong with the official story. you dont have to theorize to point out a few major problems. even just mentioning a few of them and telling people to do some research would be good enough or me.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
Pop Mech. : "So if you don't
Pop Mech. : "So if you don't believe us experts, then HOW DID THEY GET BOMBS IN THE BUILDING?"
Maybe we should ask Marvin Bush/Securacom?
"Do you REALLY THINK that they put bombs in burning buildings?"
No, I don't think that because I KNOW that is takes time and expertise to set up controlled demo. Maybe we should ask the people who were responsible for security, MARVIN BUSH/SECURACOM how and when the bombs got in the buildings!!!
Easy. Why does everyone think it is so challenging to swat these flies? Ok, so the MSM won't give us a fair venue? THEN WE GET OUT ON THE STREETS AND RAISE HELL UNTIL THEY DO, OR WE CREATE OUR OWN FAIR VENUE FOR DEBATE!
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
The View is NOT a forum for intricate lectures & discussions
of physics & metallurgy!!! That's for universities & scientific journals!
Just stick to the basics:
Show videos of WTC-7 imploding & Silverstein saying, "Pull-it,"
Show clear video of the towers erupting & exploding!!!
Explain that hostile airliners flew all over the eastern U.S. for hours without any response from NORAD & our military!!!
If time permits:
Explain what false-flag attacks are & PNAC stating that a New Pearl Harbor was needed to invade Iraq!
Present pics that a Boeing with a 125' wingspan can not fit through a 16' initial impact hole at the Pentagon
Etc.
Do not get bogged-down in advanced scientific discussions on The View!!!
Yes, SHOW the videos
Television is obviously a visual medium. Whoever appears for 9/11 Truth on The View must stipulate that certain images are shown. This is more important than anything that will be said, and it's usually where Jones and Tarpley and others have been denied by Fox and MSNBC.
Insist on showing WTC7 from the north side.
Insist on showing the distant shot of the towers collapsing, because it more prominently features the squibs. Then show the closeup of the North Tower, because that shot is devastating: you can see the floors exploding.
But PLEASE don't start on the Pentagon. PLEASE, ROSIE, don't talk about the Pentagon. I'm begging you. The second you mention it, the good ol' "where are the passengers?" remarks enter, and the debate is lost.
For the non-scientific material, please have Jim Hoffman or David Ray Griffin on. But don't let Griffin talk about the Pentagon. Have DRG talk about the FAILURE of the 9/11 Commission! The crime is the coverup!
Why does mention of the Pentagon panic you, simulac? Trust me,
& trust your common sense: AA-77 did NOT slam the Pentagon, despite what Jim Hoffman says!
It panics me
because I've seen many truthers (Dylan Avery, Tarpley, Fetzer, Barrett, etc.) go on Fox and other cable news outlets, and the first tactic these outlets use to derail the conversation is the no-plane at the Pentagon debate. It happens every time, and there's really no need to go there. We have dozens of talking points that are substantiated by mountains of evidence, but the Pentagon undermines everything. Not necessarily because of what we know, but because of what we don't know and the questions that can't be answered ("where are the passengers?").
Just listen to the people who don't believe us. Whatever they talk about most often represents our weakest arguments. The Pentagon is in the top 3.
BTW, I voted you up above. And dude, the "simulac" thing is old, really old.
Cheers.
Great points
Pictures speak a thousand words. Show the trade centers exploding and disintegrating in mid-air. DO NOT discuss the Pentagon strike. MANY, actually MOST people have not seen replays of the WTC buildings "collapse" other than from the continuous replies on 9/11 "shock and awe" day. The showing of these "collapses" five plus years later will have a much different impact with the populace. In the context that POSSIBLY these buildings were brought down via CD, showing these "collapses" will raise more than a few eyebrows.
"A patriot must be ready to defend his country against his government" - Edward Abbey
no need for advanced science
free fall speed is pretty simple, so is looking at something that looks like explosions and being told that in fact they were explosions. it's the OCT people that have to get into cockamamie pseudoscience and then people will see who is easier to believe.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Yes
Every time the issue of "experts" has come up on the show it is with regard to Physics. We need to have Dr. Jones, Kevin Ryan or both on there and preferrably debating someone from the NIST report.
Thanks for the heads up...
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/150507Mueller.htm
Wm Rodriguez and Stephen Jones just confirmed
by Alex Jones.
He said he won't mention who the filmmakers are.
My guess is it will be bermas/avery or bermas/rowe from LC.
I'm STOKED they are getting Rodriguez/Jones!!!
I'm not sure why they need filmmakers.
awesome news
too bad the Popular mechanics guys (or whoever they get as debunkers) won't go first.
at least finally people will get to hear Jones speak and see that the guy is a brain and a sincere individual.
and rodriguez! wow....anyone that calls that guy a liar will be seen as an unamerican pig. awesome.
seems to be stacked in our favor.
lets go rosie
Willie is good met the prez, got a medal etc... Rosie can dramatize Willie Medal and last person out WTC willie has charisma he wont shoot himself in the foot and that’s good for the sheep watching. Jones will tie it in scientifically he is nice and calm and will do a good job they should have Griffin do the closing statement that would be sweet
Won't matter if we are smart and prepared...
I addressed this earlier in the thread. We can devote a few minutes to deconstructing their likely talking points. SHOW THE JOHN GROSS VIDEO, then it's over. It's like in court. The attorney who goes first with his closing statement can still win.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
There's no reason to have
There's no reason to have the Louder than Words people and someone like Willie Rodriguez on the show since they are not credible experts in the field.
It's like me going up against Stephen Hawking in a debate about black holes.
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911dvds@gmail.com - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info
are you suggesting that Jim Meigs is the Stephen Hawking
of building demolitions? I'd say he's more like the Stephen Hawking of the National Football League...
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
haha RT no I'm not saying
haha RT no I'm not saying that, but I am saying that he can BS about the buildings much like Stephen Hawking can BS about Blackholes.
It's all about the audience's perception of the event. that will be the vital issue.
If "we" come across as irresponsible and uneducated, "we" have no chance.
It seems awfully unfair to stack the deck like that. The View said "we should get physicists on the show" and I agree.
If it turns into an ad hominem strawman attack, I hope Rosie has the courage to call them out on it, Live.
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911dvds@gmail.com - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info
alright, gotcha
you're absolutely right that it's about perception. to most people, the first impression is not going to convince them one way or the other--it's going to be about deciding whether to look into it at all or whether to dismiss it and believe what they want, which for many will be the comforting thought that we have great magazines like Popular Mechanics to do our thinking so that we don't actually have to read a physics paper by some mormon prof or do more than smile sympathetically at a puerto rican janitor with a fantastic tale of heroism. I'm being facetious of course, but unfortunately a lot of people do tend to think like that...
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Michele Malkin and her Kool-Aid Campaign
It appears that Michele Malkin is starting a campaign to have people send Rosie packets of cool aids!!!!! If your bored you should go to her site and leave her a friendly message about what you think about this.
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/006219.html
Professor Steven Jones was
Professor Steven Jones was sounded out for an appearance shortly after O'Donnell first started discussing 9/11 truth on the show and he is expected to be making an appearance very soon.
We are confirming who else is set to appear and will have that news in the next day or two.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/150507theview.htm
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
I'm getting the impression
That in typical form, they're trying to make it as even as possible. On the one hand we have the PM shills, and on the other we'll have, not David Griffin and Kevin Ryan, but Willie and Steve Jones (and god forbid, some filmmakers). Who else will they have on the PM side btw? Don't discount the possibility that they will have a surprise heavyweight of some kind. John McCain who wrote the foreword to the PM book maybe?
Now, to get myself in trouble again. With ALL DUE RESPECT to Willie and Steve Jones, I think they are in fact second stringers. This is not so much a personal attack as an analysis of their vulnerabilities mind you.
Steve Jones as we know wrote a paper, inspired no doubt by his religious views (he's a mormon) purporting to show that Mayan art from pre-Columbus America provides evidence that Jesus visited North America after his resurrection. I give the man every religious freedom to do and say what he wants, but the media will have a field day with this and will use it to ignore the content of his work. You can cry foul all you want when they do that but no one will care. They will enjoy the laugh.
Willie is a slightly more difficult case for them because he IS a hero after all. How might they cancel out the effect of that undeniable fact? Pretty easy. We've seen most of this already, and I don't doubt that our bedunkers' efforts against us are used to concoct game plans like this one. Willie heard things that he can't confirm the nature of. Willie changed his story a couple of times. Willie was traumatized by the events and is confused. Willie allied himself with the Jimmie Walter freak show. Willie is caught up with the celebrity he gained on 9/11 (he did always want to go into showbiz.)
See, the media want to make it about the personalities instead of the issues. What could you possibly bring up to distract from Kevin Ryan or David Griffin's substance? With Jones and Willie there is unfortunately a lot for them to distract the public with. It doesn't matter that this is not fair, it doesn't matter that we know they are good people with important things to say. It just doesn't matter because on a mainstream show you are playing by THEIR rules. I'm not saying this is insurmountable, just be well aware of how THEY see it and what THEY will do with this. And get ready to a) be disappointed and b) fight back.
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
DRG would make the most impact
Rosie needs to get DRG on the show. He has the most overall knowledge regarding 9/11 and he can state his case the most eloquently. His reputation is untouchable. William Rodriguez would be a nice touch with him being a hero and all, but he can only discuss one small part of the events of 9/11.
"A patriot must be ready to defend his country against his government" - Edward Abbey
yes, let me reiterate
you can't take anything away from Jones and Rodriguez. BUT the media will try anyway, and they will find it easier to trick people about them than they would about Ryan and Griffin (and perhaps some others, but really I think they're tops for credibility among the mass media audiences...)
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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
DRG's demeanor....
is like a a wise kindly grandfather. He is extremely credible and can articulate his points that people will buy into.
"A patriot must be ready to defend his country against his government" - Edward Abbey
snake in the grass Megis PM
It all depends in what the format of the show is run. … you know there is no doubt that Rosie will pump up Willie medal from president Bush last man out WTC and she will let him talk and he is a sort of good story teller he sounds truthful He shouldn’t debate if he has no experience. Willie will get smoked by snake in the grass Miegs . in a debate it should be the most qualified person with no!!! hidden agenda S Jones Ryan Griffin ( Has anyone checked if Rosie belongs to the CFR) ???? I like to cover all bases Question everything, trust no one, I dont know anyone of you. just checked she isnt http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/roundtable/CFRL-Rlist.html
I agree about WIllie
He has great charisma and he does come across as pretty honest. I actually got misty-eyed watching one of his talks when I first heard his whole story. He is a great asset in many ways, but for this particular task he is not the best choice. As far as Steve goes I really want to believe he is sincere becauuse he seems like a VERY kind soul but he brings baggage and again, it's not about what we are willing to forgive it's about what the media are going to spin. DRG and Kevin Ryan are damn well near unspinnable in my view.' Again, let's not treat this as a popularity contest. The truth movement is full of remarkable people and stories but we have to be as dispassionate as possible and not let our personal feelings (like thinking that someone deserves attention because of all they've done) get in the way of what is best for the cause. There will be plenty of time to praise the crap out of anyone and everyone ONCE WE WIN. Until then, let's keep our standards and expectations high--we deserve no less, nor do the victims.
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♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Fetzer should join Popular Mechanics
The fact there is a picture of Rosie holding Willie key to the WTC he will be on the show. I just wish griffin would be on the show because if he gets on the show he promotes his great book and debunks PM at the same time.
PM is not qualified to talk on these issues at all there reporters and writers not PhD professors
Fetzer should join Popular Mechanics ohyea he already did
Jim Megis, Popular Mechanics & the CIA
Debunking PM's credibility.
THE HIDDEN HAND OF THE C.I.A.
AND THE 9/11 PROPAGANDA
OF POPULAR MECHANICS
A brutal purge of the senior staff at Popular Mechanics preceded the
publication of last month's scandalous propaganda piece about 9/11.
Pulling the strings is the grand dame of Hearst Magazines and behind
the scene is her obscure husband a veteran propaganda expert and former
special assistant to the director of the C.I.A.
"DISINFORMATION AND DECEPTION"
"Ninety-five percent of the work of intelligence agencies around the
world is disinformation and deception," Andreas von B|low, former
parliamentary official responsible for the budget for Germany's
intelligence agencies, told American Free Press in December 2001.
Like Nazi Germany of 1933, American newsstands today carry a mainstream
magazine dedicated to pushing the government's "truth" of 9/11 while
viciously smearing independent researchers as "extremists" who "peddle
fantasies" and make "poisonous claims."
The magazine pushing the government's 9/11 propaganda, Popular
Mechanics (PM), is published by the Hearst family. Its March cover
story, "Debunking 9/11 Lies," has been exposed by credible researchers
to contain numerous distortions and flawed conclusions.
American Free Press revealed that Benjamin Chertoff, the 25-year-old
"senior researcher" who authored the 9/11 article, is related to
Michael Chertoff, the new Secretary of the Department of Homeland
Security (DHS). The PM article illustrates how a propaganda method,
used by dictatorships, is now being employed by the U.S. government:
controlling mainstream media outlets to promote its version of 9/11.
The actions of Michael Chertoff concerning the events of 9/11, the
non-investigation that followed, the USA PATRIOT Act, and the
propaganda being disseminated in PM, are strikingly similar to actions
attributed to the Nazi ministers Joseph Goebbels and Hermann Gvring.
While Chertoff is the "czar" of DHS, he is not sovereign at PM or
Hearst Magazines, its corporate parent. The president of Hearst
Magazines, one of the world's largest publishers of monthly magazines
with 18 U.S. titles and more than 100 international editions, is
Cathleen P. Black, a 60-year old native of Chicago. Black oversees the
publication of 175 titles around the world including Cosmopolitan,
Harper's Bazaar, Town & Country, Esquire, Good Housekeeping, and
Popular Mechanics.
Black is a former president and publisher of USA Today. In 1983, Black
was made president of the new newspaper published by Gannett. The
following year she was made publisher and soon became a member of
Gannett's board of directors.
"Despite her efforts," her biography reads, "USA Today did not show an
operating profit in the eight years that Black was there." The
newspaper's non-profitability notwithstanding, Gannett paid Black
$600,000 a year for her efforts. USA Today reportedly had a circulation
of 1.8 million when Black left in 1991. USA Today is often given away
free of charge.
Black left USA Today to become president and chief executive of the
nascent Newspaper Association of America (NAA), formed on June 1, 1992.
She then became the leading spokesperson and lobbyist for the nation's
newspaper industry. Black's position at the NAA carried "considerable
political heft," Paul Farhi of The Washington Post wrote, "given that
the 1,400 members of her organization control the nation's editorial
pages."
In 1995, for an annual salary reported to be "in excess of $1 million,"
Black was hired by Hearst Corp. to head its magazine division.
Named by Fortune magazine as one of the Most Powerful Women in American
Business, Black sits on the boards of Hearst Corp., the Advertising
Council, IBM, and Coca-Cola. She is also a member of the Council on
Foreign Relations.
It is often said that USA Today is controlled by the CIA, which, like
the paper, is based in McLean, Virginia. The little-known fact that
Black is married to Thomas E. Harvey, an obscure lawyer who became a
White House Fellow in 1977 and served as "special assistant' to the
Director of Central Intelligence (DCI), provides substance to these
rumors. Black's corporate biography does not mention her husband.
President Jimmy Carter made Harvey a White House Fellow in May 1977.
"In that capacity," Harvey's biography reads, he "served as special
assistant to the Director of the C.I.A. Following that he held senior
appointed positions within the Department of Defense."
The DCI at the time was Stansfield Turner, who had replaced George H.W.
Bush.
Prior to serving the CIA, Harvey worked at the New York law office of
Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy. The international law firm, co-founded
by Morris Hadley, a 1916 member of Yale University's secret society
Skull & Bones, has ties to the CIA and lists William H. Webster, DCI
from 1987-1991, as a senior partner. Webster also serves on the
Homeland Security Advisory Council.
In the 1980s, Harvey served as General Counsel and Congressional
Liaison of the U.S. Information Agency, the former external propaganda
arm of the U.S. government. Harvey also served as Deputy Assistant
Secretary for the Army and Navy. In 1992, Harvey was personnel director
for the Bush-Quayle '92 Campaign.
Calls to the offices of Black and Harvey for the purpose of this
article went unanswered.
THE COUP AT POPULAR MECHANICS
In the months leading up to the Chertoff article in PM, a brutal
take-over occurred at the magazine. In September 2004, Joe Oldham, the
magazine's former editor-in-chief was replaced by James B. Meigs, who
came to PM with a "deputy," Jerry Beilinson, from National Geographic
Adventure. In October, a new creative director replaced PM's 21-year
veteran who was given ninety minutes to clear out of his office.
A former senior editor at PM, who is forbidden from openly discussing
the coup at PM, told AFP that the former creative director was abruptly
told to leave and given severance pay of two weeks wages for every year
spent at PM. "Three or four" people have been similarly dismissed every
month since, he said. He said he was astounded that the coup at PM had
not been reported in the mainstream media.
PM has long been a supporter of the U.S. military. The magazine ran a
full page ad in support of the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan in May
2003. Since the purge last September, however, PM readers have noticed
that government propaganda has replaced scientific writing. A letter to
the editor in the current issue says, "I think you guys are just
another tool in the government's propaganda machine."
Debunking Popular Mechanics
Perhaps it is merely a coincidence that just prior to 9/11 Cathleen P. Black, who has family connections to the CIA and Pentagon and is president of Hearst Magazines, the owner of Popular Mechanics, fired the magazine’s editor-in-chief and several senior veteran staff members and installed James B. Meigs and Benjamin Chertoff, a cousin of Bush administration factotum Michael Chertoff. It was Meigs and Benjamin Chertoff who produced the Popular Mechanics report that Griffin has eviscerated.
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/03/28/9_11_...
personally? im pretty
personally? im pretty satisfied with Steven Jones being on The View. just imagine one year ago if someone told you "in about a year Steven Jones will be on The View to discuss controlled demolition of the towers and/or WTC7". i know i wouldnt have believed it. that said it seems like im far from alone in wanting to see DRG get a spot as well. it only makes sense to have the guy who wrote the "response" to PM on if your gonna have the PM shills on. we should be able to make this happen since most of us seem to be on the same page here. flood Rosie, flood ABC and flood The View with requests to have DRG on as well. i too mean no disrespect to William Rodriquez(who i still think would be good on The View with the emotional aspect, last man out of the tower, personal experience etc., just not as good as DRG on hitting all the points)or Steven Jones in pushing hard for DRG. i would love to see DRG and Jones go on together though. the 2 of them would be tough to make a mockery of. but you have to remember that Rosie had lunch with Willie and heard all about his story so i think shes been trying to get him for some time now. either way, this is gonna be exciting.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
Steven Jones' new paper is
Steven Jones' new paper is now Rosie's 1st 9/11 link.
http://www.rosie.com/blog/911/
“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson
The report continues:
The report continues: “Most of the effects of those collapses on adjacent structures and people were related to the kinetic energy of falling debris and the pressure on buildings exerted by dust- and particle-laden air mobilized by falling debris.” From 300 hundred yards away—the distance from the North Tower to WTC7—that debris cloud devastated the base of World Trade Center 7. - Davin Coburn
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911dvds@gmail.com - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info
Rosie's blog tonite:
rick writes:
Please for the love of gawd will you have a segment or a whole show talking about WTC7 and 911. These issues have divided our country and its high time for truth, healing, and peace! Please Please TY!
wouldnt that be fascinating
JR writes:
Hi Rosie,
Can you please get Prof. Steven E. Jones and Prof. David Ray Griffin to come on and expose the pack of professional liars over at popular mechanics regarding 9/11? Thanks,
JR
ok
nathalie writes:
Hi Ro,
Please see Dr. Judy Wood’s 9/11 page at http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/
Very informative, and should be on the upcoming show.
Can’t believe you got them to do it!! WooHoo! So Love you!!
Nat
judy wood rocks
uhhmmmm.,,
I don't completely agree with the last post, but I do agree that we should get D. R. Griffin on the View.
I don't care when they get him on, but it would be great to have him on AFTER the PM "experts" do their number,
. DRG can shreed them limb from limb.
This is a golden opportunity for the Truth Movement to show its Big Guns. We may never get this sort of chance again!
You hafta be kidding me.
You hafta be kidding me. Rosie O'Donnel thinks Judy Wood "rocks"? Also, what was with her sarcastic reply of "that would be facsinating" instead of just answering in a yes/no/I don't know fashion?
someone needs to educate
someone needs to educate Rosie on 9/11 disinfo NOW. this isnt the first time she has praised Judy Wood.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
Contacting William Rodriguez
Does anyone know how to contact William Rodriguez? I tried emailing him at wtcbill@gmail.com, but he hasn't gotten back to me. Is there an alternate email address?
Thanks.
I ordered one of his pictures over 3 months ago,
as a form of donation, and haven't received it yet. I've tried emailing him, but with no luck. Not sure what's going on with Mr. Rodriguez.