You have to realize that the natural psychological reaction that one has when they are faced with a lie of such magnificent proportions is to deny and protect your own world view.
My point is that we should all be more open to alternative view points no matter how far away they are from our own. Image is everything and I think 9/11 Truth needs to be seen as a reasonable group of concerned citizens....not reactionary..."you believe what I believe or you are a flaming idiot"
or my fav..
"you believe what I believe or you are on the list of suspected 'non-truthers"
and im waiting for the day when the unwitting shill decides to go public and confesses their ignorance along with their anger and outspokeness. Thats what scares the NWO more than anything. I would almost have to bet their is something like that brewing.
It is a much grander gesture to fight for liz right to speak. What did she say? Steel weakens at 275 degrees... UH OH! I have chicken in the oven right now - I better make sure it's not sagging and about to collapse!
Liz said it takes 240 degrees to weaken steel. She is not credible and she wants Popular Mechanics to debate. I don't mind that idea so much but she clearly is not open minded or objective about this issue.
I think rather than attacking her...let's get the ABC station some real support to do a show that has a real debate. Let the viewers decide for themselves.
Stay positive folks. It adds credibility to us all.
...Get either Kevin Ryan or Richard Gage to go on the View with Bill Doyle and/or Bob McIlvaine. Kevin Ryan would be best because he is a whistle blower and lost his job - he has been personally affected by this. As appealing as the idea of an "objective" debate might be, it's impossible. In a dream world where ABC actually lets this happen, best to go with two or three people who have been personally affected by this, that's what's going to win your daytime audience. AND that they know EXACTLY what they're talking about, in other words you can feel the truth oozing from them, AND that they've made a legal petition to NIST seeking corrections to the NIST report. When a man who lost his job to expose controlled demolition and a man who lost his son in that controlled demolition are on National Television talking about that controlled demolition, everyone's jaw will drop.
Holy shit, there's a volcano under NYC!? Why is this the first time I'm hearing about it?! Aw schucks, Beaver, now I have to move again!!! Flippity-floppity!!!
"They took it from the top to the bottom, we're gonna take them from the bottom to the top." - Dan Wallace
Then post all of these documented news reports about the Molten Steel...
(FYI if you try to repost this info, some of the links will need to be copied and pasted manually since 911blogger drops off the end of longer links posted. If you see "..." at the end of any of these links, simply right click and "copy link location" to grab the entire link)
"These reports came from two men involved in the removal of the rubble: Peter Tully of Tully Construction of Flushing, N.Y., and Mark Loizeaux of Controlled Demolition, Inc. of Phoenix, Md.
Tully told AFP that he had seen pools of “literally molten steel” in the rubble.
Loizeaux confirmed this: “Yes, hot spots of molten steel in the basements,” he said, “at the bottom of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven levels.”
The molten steel was found “three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed,” he said. He confirmed that molten steel was also found at WTC 7 [...]" http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/cutter_charges_brought_down_wt.html
The head of a team of scientists studying the potential health effects of 9/11, reported, "Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense. In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel." http://www.jhsph.edu/Publications/Special/Welch.htm
A public health advisor who arrived at Ground Zero on September 12, said that "feeling the heat" and "seeing the molten steel" there reminded him of a volcano. http://www.neha.org/9-11%20report/index-The.html
According to a worker involved with the organizing of demolition, excavation and debris removal operations at ground zero, "Underground it was still so hot that molten metal dripped down the sides of the wall from Building 6." http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/congress/9-11_commission/
An expert stated about World Trade Center building 7, "A combination of an uncontrolled fire and the structural damage might have been able to bring the building down, some engineers said. But that would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been PARTLY EVAPORATED in extraordinarily high temperatures" (pay-per-view). http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10812FF3F590C7A8EDDA809...
Note that evaporation means conversion from a liquid to a gas; so the steel beams in building 7 were subjected to temperatures high enough to melt and evaporate them. http://www.answers.com/evaporation&r=67
A reporter with rare access to the debris at ground zero "descended deep below street level to areas where underground fires still burned and steel flowed in molten streams." http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/07/77nwash.htm
An Occupational Safety and Health Administration Officer at the Trade Center reported a fire truck 10 feet below the ground that was still burning two weeks after the Tower collapsed, "its metal so hot that it looked like a vat of molten steel." http://www.thenewliberator.com/wethepeople.htm
The structural engineer responsible for the design of the WTC, described fires still burning and molten steel still running 21 days after the attacks. http://www.seau.org/SEAUNews-2001-10.pdf
According to a member of New York Air National Guard's 109th Air Wing, who was at Ground Zero from September 22 to October 6, "One fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers' remains. Firemen sprayed water to cool the debris down but the heat remained intense enough at the surface to melt their boots." http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3731/is_200112/ai_n9015802
Firemen and hazardous materials experts also stated that, six weeks after 9/11, "There are pieces of steel being pulled out [from as far as six stories underground] that are still cherry red" and "the blaze is so 'far beyond a normal fire' that it is nearly impossible to draw conclusions about it based on other fires." (pay-per-view) http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/nydailynews/87451160.html?did=87451160&FMT=A...
A NY Department of Sanitation spokeswoman said "for about two and a half months after the attacks, in addition to its regular duties, NYDS played a major role in debris removal - everything from molten steel beams to human remains...." http://wasteage.com/mag/waste_dday_ny_sanitation/
Indeed, "You couldn't even begin to imagine how much water was pumped in there," said Tom Manley of the Uniformed Firefighters Association, the largest fire department union. "It was like you were creating a giant lake." http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/12/19/archive/main321907.shtml
Also, consider posting what Dr. Frank Greening (of 911myths.com) has recently come out to say regarding the molten steel:
"There is some crucial scientific evidence for the presence of molten iron or steel in the pulverized remains of WTC 1 & 2"
"I am referring to the observation of micron-sized iron spherules that have been seen in many WTC dust samples. These spherical particles are direct physical evidence that the iron within the particle was molten at the time the particle formed."
"The formation of spherical iron particles has been well documented and researched for steel making processes... Iron spheres in the 30 micron to 1 micron range are typically seen in the dust-laden off-gases produced by molten steel and are believed to be formed by the ejection of metal droplets when the liquid metal degasses."
"...some steel appears to have melted in the WTC prior to the collapse of the buildings."
"Iron spherules and elevated levels of airborne ZINC prove there was molten iron/steel in the WTC."
"This implies that some iron or steel in the twin towers was exposed to temperatures ABOVE 1539 deg C. Such temperatures are much too high for hydrocarbon fires in the twin towers according to NIST's own studies."
"I would say that the presence of molten iron in the WTC is inconsistent with the NIST Report’s conclusion that temperatures in the towers during 9/11 were well below the melting point of iron or steel."
"NIST, in its fire simulations, tried very hard to get steel (>95 % iron) to temperatures above 1000 deg C but failed!"
"How did the fires in the rubble pile melt steel?"
"Why does the presence, I mean the FACT, of molten steel in the Twin Towers bother you so much?" (Greening's questions directed at other forum members who were denying the existence of molten steel at Ground Zero)
-Dr. Frank Greening, originally posted at Physorg.com March/April 2007 as forum member "NEU-FONZE", and as "Apollo20" at Forums.Randi.org, April 2007
"I have a personal e-mail FROM A VERY RESPECTED PROFFESOR OF ENGINEERING at an AMERICAN UNIVERSITY in which he notes that his attempts to publish his research into the collapse of WTC 1 & 2 in US and British journals has been blocked.
This means work disputing NIST's findings is nowhere to be found because it is simply being censored by over-cautious editors!" -Dr. Frank Greeing, posted at Physorg.com as forum member "NEU-FONZE", Mar 20 2007 - 9/11 Events - part 3, pg. 91
"NIST has no PROOF that fire insulation was stripped by the aircraft impacts in the critical areas ABOVE the impact zones. In fact it is highly UNLIKELY that this happened, and without the loss of thermal insulation, NIST's collapse theory falls apart.
The loss of thermal insulation idea is obviously an ad hoc hypothesis added by NIST to salvage a failed collapse theory" -Dr. Frank Greeing, posted at Physorg.com as forum member "NEU-FONZE", Mar 20 2007 - 9/11 Events - part 3, pg. 92
"The truth about 9/11 is too important to declare the matter closed just because NIST have written a book or two on it.
NIST themselves call their version of the truth an HYPOTHESIS. Does that preclude the consideration of other hypotheses?
Is it the NIST apologists' plan to keep up the nay-saying until they silence any dissenting voices and declare: "CASE CLOSED!"
Well, sorry to tell you, it won't work!" -Dr. Frank Greeing, posted at Physorg.com as forum member "NEU-FONZE", Mar 20 2007 - 9/11 Events - part 3, pg.102
_______________
"If I had just paid $20 million for the NIST report, I'd be asking for a refund!" -Dr. Frank Greening
Jones' new paper mentions "iron rich spheres". This means MOLTEN STEEL. USGS official studies confirm this and claim that they were "frequently seen". This is devastating evidence for molten STEEL.
“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."
1) Because sometimes you are looking at a photo and you can't tell if it is steel or not. Analysis proves what it is, as Jones has done
2) Because she is an active promoter of disinformation.
“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."
4Analytical Imaging and Geophysics, LLC Boulder, Colorado
This report presents results of Airborne Visible/Infrared Imaging Spectrometer (AVIRIS) remote sensing data and interpretations that map the distribution and intensity of thermal hot spots in the area in and around the World Trade Center on September 16 and 23, 2001. Data collected on the 16th were processed, interprested and release to emergency response teams on the 18th of September, 2001. The September 23 data were processed, interpreted and the results released on October 12, 2001. The images of the World Trade Center site show significant thermal hot spots on Sept. 16, 2001. By Sept. 23, 2001, most of the hot spots had cooled or the fires had been put out.
The AVIRIS instrument is a National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) remote sensing instrument that measures upwelling spectral radiance in the visible through short-wavelength infrared. The instrument has 224 spectral channels (bands) with wavelengths from 0.37 to 2.5 microns (micrometers).
In response to requests from the EPA through the USGS, NASA flew AVIRIS on a De Havilland Twin Otter over lower Manhattan at mid-day on September 16 and 23, 2001. For these deployments, the Twin Otter was flown at altitudes of 6,500 and 12,500 feet. The spectral data for the maps shown here were measured at 6,500 feet and have a spatial resolution (pixel spacing) of approximately 6 feet (2 meters).
AVIRIS records the near-infrared signature of heat remotely. The accompanying maps are false color images that show the core affected area around the World Trade Center. Initial analysis of these data revealed a number of thermal hot spots on September 16 in the region where the buildings collapsed 5 days earlier. Analysis of the data indicates temperatures greater than 800oF. Over 3 dozen hot spots appear in the core zone. By September 23, only 4, or possibly 5, hot spots are apparent, with temperatures cooler than those on September 16.
Is there a site that has all the documentation (like this) that provides links to each piece of evidence and/or anomalies from 911?
If not, then I would highly recommend it, since it clearly illustrates the huge amounts of data available on each piece of evidence.
The website could be referenced by people who appear on the MSM, so that viewers can find the topic of discussion fast and easy.
Anyone new to 911 would quickly understand why a new investigation is warranted, and it would help to quell debunkers with tons of factual information.
The website could also prove to be very useful for any indictments, Grand Jury's and/or Criminal cases in the future since everything would be cataloged and referenced for public exhibition.
This is what I'm talking about!! Coordination!! Stallion's got it people. If you encounter any bedunkers trying to poo-poo molten steel, just copy and paste that right over. Don't even continue to debate after!!! Just lay that on them then be like, "WHUT!" LOL!!! Really. Bedunk that you morons.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
"Dear Ro, I would love to see a show with experts on both sides to discuss WTC7.Silly to always talk about it but never realy pursue the truth once and for all, don’t you think? Please?"
I agree that Jim and David would make the best team to debate the subject matter.
May I suggest that the 911 truth movement form a "911 Truth Commission" to stay on topic with well documented evidence that will eliminate straw-man arguments and have well spoken representatives that appear on the MSM to present the truth of "911" to the general public.
More planning and organization, less "winging it". We should also be putting our best face (speakers/debaters) forward. I was disappointed with Tarpley's performance on H&C. I thought he should have had talking points prepared, and planned out how to control the dialogue. He was just reacting.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
"I was disappointed with Tarpley's performance on H&C."
It's not easy to debate H&C on their turf. They enjoy a psychological edge. It is more than just their attack
techniques. It has to do with volume differences, camera angles, lighting etc. It doesn't take a television producer to
see whats going on there. Also it isn't that hard (from H&C's dominant position) to challenge someone to make a definitive
statement, then ridicule it. Especially if they are controlling the images and dialog.
I think what the Truth Movement is good at is pointing out flaws in the official theory. What we suck at is explaining what actually happened.
If the tables are turned and the Hannity and Coles of this world were forced to defend the official story they could be challenged on so many points. I admire Tarpley as an incredibly intelligent and articulate writer, but IMHO he would have scored more points by simply asking if H&C didn't see any problems with the official theory, then challenging THEM on the inconsistencies.
Even Rosie, brave as she is, has trouble articulating her thoughts in such a short timeframe and in such a raucous environment. I mean think about it, how easy would it be to challenge Elizabeths statement about the "volcano effect?" It makes absolutely no sense whatever, yet she got away with it because of time constraints and confusing dialog. And what about the 270 degree heat? My oven gets over 500 degrees and hasn't melted yet.
My point is, as we have seen thus far, it is not easy to argue the Truth message. Intelligent and perceptive Germans had the same challenges in 1933 trying to debunk Hitler. Sadly they didn't get through to the populace. We still have that opportunity. Maybe the best tactic is to poke holes in the official theory. The Truth is on our side. We need to believe it and articulate it.
I commented at length about the Tarpley appearance in the two threads dedicated to the topic, so I won't rehash here. We need to strive to do better, not settle for mediocrity. Read those other threads. I offer some construtive ideas that others might be able to use or improve upon.
They enjoy a psychological edge.
If someone who is trying to prop up a flimsy and outrageously false lie enjoys a psychological edge over people who are using REAL science and REAL evidence, we have a big problem. I disagree with you though, I don't think they have a psychological edge. I think we do, and we should start behaving like it.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Mr Consciousness. I think we agree that we have the edge when it comes to the Truth. My point was that they have the home field advantage in their studio when it comes to propping up their outrageously false lie, in the same way that Joseph Goebbels had the edge in manipulating Germans thinking by using their particular propaganda techniques.
We can study it, deconstruct it, and subvert it. Tarpley should have been prepared to do debates, as he has taken such a public role. He should have expected to face this sort of thing, and even studied tapes of H&C. Proactive, not reactive. I go into this in depth in the other two Tarpley threads...
Home field advantage doesn't guarantee a win.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Take their argument and make it your own. Spin questions to suit your argument. It is something that these people have spent much time learning. They have been schooled on how to give the allusion that they are in control.
When they get an inch they take a mile. We must know how to use their own stragegy against them. We will win peoples curiosities if the argument appears to be won.
Face it. They will never give us sufficient time to explain the possibilities of how they managed to get this done.... or get into the many ties to their writings and idealogies..... or the many instances of lies and cover-ups.... or the history.... Or even scratch the surface of the many reasons why they would do something like this.
We simply have to rise above their bullying. Defeat the arguers before the argument by creating the path to the information by corrupting the line of questioning.
Bend the barrel of the gun so that those firing the weapon are shooting themselves.....BOOM!
___________________
Together in Truth!
"I knew you would ask me that question. I thought you brought me on here to talk about Building 7? Lets talk about a steel structure which for the first time in history fell due to FIRE. Not hit by a plane. Fell at near freefall speeds into its own footpriint. Demonstrating all the characteristics of a controlled demolition. Steel buildings do not just fall down. Show the footage which 50% of Americans have not seen. What are you afraid of? Show the building buckle and fall into itself. Show the small fires. Show the NIST Report on WTC 7! oooohhhhhhh! There isn't one. Why was this collapse left unexplained by the 911 Commission. What about the testimony of Norman Minetta?? William Rodriguez??
You want to ask me about John Kerry? Do we really need to continue to discuss the incompetence and ignorance of our political elite? I bet he's part of the 50% of Americans who don't even know what year 911 happened let alone the collapse of a building which was deleted from the Main Stream Media recollection of the events.
You want to bring the families of the victims into this argument then perhaps you should allow me to bring you the hundreds of family members who are asking the very same questions and voicing the very same concerns to your studio so you can stop speaking for them and allow them to tell the world how they feel.
You will not speak for those people much longer. You will not tell the American People what to think anymore."
___________________
Together in Truth!
IMHO, the key to getting 9/11 across to the general public is going to be putting a message out there that is simple, concise, 100% accurate, well-known to Truthers, and easily debated on the primary points. A simple one page outline of direct statements (talking points), a simple mock-up 9/11 position stance for political candidates, and a simple time-line based narrative of the major events will accomplish this. I've seen a few 'quick guides', 'facts of 9/11' and similar, but the three documents that I just outlined - the talking points, the position stance, and the narrative, will be invaluable. I'm not particularly interested in seeing more in-depth books, essays, web-sites, documentaries, and what-not, as I am in seeing useful, hard-hitting, MSM-palatable, 100% accurate PR materials and easily accessible quick studies for anyone to use. This sort of thing will be invaluable to the movement.
The advantage that we have is that we support the truth, and further investigations that will shine more light upon the truth. The advantage that they have is their slick PR savvy, and their control of the media. With a little PR savvy of our own, and some cool-headed representatives from our movement, we can easily turn the tide. Most of the 9/11 Truth reps discussed could do a little debate/public appearance/speech giving/PR training of some sort and become better than they have ever imagined. Our best chance is for our movement leaders to spend a little time and effort in preparing themselves for such occasions. I don't know how much of 9/11 Truth movement money raised is spent on training our leaders in the "media arts", but it would all be money well spent. Most of our leaders are either academics or professionals who have access to such services, and I would encourage them to spend some time improving their publicity and appearance skills.
9/11 Truth is happening; with a little hard work and organization we can make it happen.
I think that a show like the view will not allow for an indepth debate so we have to hope for something like a debate just on the physics of the collapses.
If it is in fact "Impossible" for these builings to collapse at the speed in which they did, then we should have physics professionals on there debating the issue. If it is a matter of physics, then Alex Jones can stay home, David Ray can stay home, and Tarpley can stay home.
Now Professor Jones I'm not sure about. I would not have him on because he is so invovled with the 9/11 Truth movement. I think a physics professional that is more detached from the movement would be much more effective.
the truth be "detached"? Less publicly known sure, but we don't want someone to go up there and act ambivalent about the hard facts. It's not a matter of "These guys have this theory, and those guys have that theory. Now the public can decide." It's a matter of informing people of the actual scientific reality of the situation. The purpose of a debate is to expose the fake science of the bedunkers, not to give all "opinions" equal consideration.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
If it's a matter of 'simple physics' then a professional physicist would do fine in the debate.
It's not about 9/11...atleast not in this debate. It shouldn't be about proving it was an inside job. That won't happen until after you prove that the 'official explanation' is impossible.
My fear with the 'truthers' being the spokesmen for this sort of debate is that they bring so much to the table. They immediately are presented as the divisive 'conspiracy believers'.
So, bring on PHYSICS professionals that talk about the PHYSICS not inside jobs and pakistani ISI agents.
The WTC collapse was in fact caused by explosive devices planted well in advance - explosives just waiting there to be triggered by the heat of the airplanes crashing into the towers to result in their collapse.
It is known that the steel structures making up buildings can perform badly in a fire without adequate fire retardents, and with hot fires can lose their strength to hold the huge stresses in a building like the World Trade Center. However, if that was the critical problem, the collapse would follow a definitely different path than was observed. Evidence for the structural degradation would likely appear before the final collapse, and the process would accelerate toward catastrophe.
G. K. Knorr, H. Mond, and C. L. Grabbe, "Relaxation States of an Ideal MHD Plasma with External Magnetic Field," Journal of Plasma Physics, 53, 373-85, 1995.
Physics and Philosophy
C. L. Grabbe, invited Critical Review of R. M. Russell, "Whitehead, Einstein and the Newtonian Legacy," [from Newton and New Direction in Science (Specola Vaticana, Italy, 1988)] Process Studies, 23, 285-8, Fall/Winter, 1994.
CD requires precisely timed, probably computer controlled explosives. "Triggered by heat of planes..." Don't think so. This is more garbage science and highly speculative. This borders on disinfo.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Could the person or persons who rated this down please comment on why this is a bad suggestion? I'm not looking to argue about it since, like I said, I don't know much about this Prof. Grabbe. Is there something you know that others should also know about him?
Thanks.
where Jim spent an hour or so trying to co-opt him to the dews/no-planes arena.
He's not that well spoken imho.
I think Kevin Ryan would be best, but thats just my opinion.
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
This information was what I was looking for. I only have a short clip of him discussing his concerns (linked in my original post) and, though he wasn't the best speaker, flags didn't go up when I heard him either.
Thanks for your opinion. I no longer think Prof. Grabbe's a very good suggestion. Sorry gang.
let me say that just because he was on fetzer's show that doesnt mean anything really, I should have also mentioned, beside him not being a great speaker, he also has stated that he has not been researching 9/11 over the past few years, just early on he put forth some opinions. During Fetzer's show, regardless of the bs fetzer was trying to jam down his neck, he tended to remain in favor of CD over all else - at least we know he's smart.
anyway, just a few reasons I think hes not the best candidate, but again just mho.
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
These explosives were not triggered by the fire. There very well may have been inscendiaries placed in the areas of impact but that would have merely been for visual impact. To make the fires appear larger than they were.
The main part of the demolition would have been set for the structure below. From what I have researched and heard in testimony...... the core was being compromised on several levels so to pull the structure in on itself. There were several explosions on multiple floors which had collapsed the core of the structure.
When it began to fall then they could blow it under cover of the falling debris. Noise of explosions were drown out. Dust laid cover for the visible explosions. One signal could have trigered the explosions. Remote detonators with delays. No wiring needed.
One signal would trigger explosion just below impact and the others would follow on built in delay. Bringing it right down into it's own footprint.
Core columns were compromised on three sides using thermite then the final side was popped with explosives. The people who do these things are experts. They would have been much better off if they were not so damn good and the buildings toppled like they should have in a collpase.
If they had allowed a more natural collapse then the whole city may have burned. If one of those towers had fallen into the surrounding city there would not have been enough firemen to contain the devistation.
We know that they wanted to take that building down. We know that they needed this type of event to occur to forward their agenda. We see how they used this event to do just that. We know that this could not of happened without their help. We have evidence that they did just that.
We know we've been lied to on a regular basis.
We caught them. We know!
___________________
Together in Truth!
Thanks JJJames. I was trying to figure out how they would have demolished the floors above the plane impact, as the destruction would have likely taken out any wiring. I hate when I miss something that obvious!! LOL!!
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Remote detonators were most likely used throughout the building. Much easier and more concealing to plant and set. You would simply have to set the proper delays. Wouldn't need near as much demo to set..... and you would eliminate all wiring needed. This would also cut the set-up time dramatically.
I believe that the upper portion of the structure was mostly affected by the thermite charges. Explosives would not be needed. The fires would only trigger the thermite. They just waited for the thermite to take affect and fall into the compromised core. When the collapse initiated and the building began to fall..... they pulled the trigger.
The demolition of these stuctures was almost perfect..... but they couldn't afford the risk to do it legit. It didn't fit their bottom line but it did suit their agenda.
I agree. Liz says that physicists say that fire could have melted the steel that brought #7 down so let the physicists debate that. Glad Rosie added that pesky little problem of the free fall speed of the collapses.....
That, by the way is one of the bigger problems with 9/11 Truth, everyone runs around yelling about "melted steel" but then the OCT'ers and Debunkers point out that no official version says anything about melted steel. Novice truthers at that point begin to look silly, unless of course they quickly make the point that "molten metal" was present and is visible pouring out of the south tower just prior to its collapse.
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
Because there WAS molten steel, and only incendiaries could cause that.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
would have to feature actual physicists or mechanical engineers
proper credibility. While DRG and Tarpley are great advocates
for 9/11 truth, they wouldn't be the best bets for this particular
format.
Professor Jones would be fine if he's accompanied by another
person who's more forceful. His manner is very reassuring and
could play well to the millions of housewives. Dr. Greg Jenkins
is a well-respected physicist. Dr. Jeff King would be a good choice, along with Kevin Ryan.
Bottom line: ONLY CD can explain the 100% pulverized concrete
at the WTC that day. (Concrete does not break into fine dust, and
here we see actual clouds of pulverized concrete in mid-air!)
ONLY CD can account for the pools of molten steel in the sub-
basement levels.
ONLY CD can account for the speed of the 3 collapses without
breaking the laws of physics. (conservation of momentum, etc.)
Since Rosie only has the rest of the month, we need to get this going! At least all the hosts were hip to the idea.
is NOT what's needed on The View. This is likely what the Popular Mechanics shills want to do! Don't fall for a trap like that!
Keep it simple. Certainly show some videos of WTC-7 imploding, Silverstein saying, "pull-it, & also show clear video of the towers erupting & exploding. Surely point out how hostile airliners flew all over the eastern U.S. without any response from NORAD & our military!!!
If time permits, show that a Boeing with a 125' wingspan can not fit through a 16' initial impact hole at the Pentagaon, explain false-flag attacks, & PNAC stating that a New Pearl Harbor was needed to invade Iraq.
They would never put Alex on the view. He would scare women too much at first. I don't think they will put alex on anywhere. Fox news is even afraid to have him on. Maybe they're afraid he could still be heard when they turn the volume down :)
That "Elisabeth" chick is ignorant, but she is also dangerous. She said right towards the end how ther should be someone from Pop. Mecanics in the show to debath with another expert. Excuse me, "expert". The only thing these people are experts at in my opinion is manipulating the facts. That debate will never happen. I am impressed with how informed Rosie seems to be and how she comes across while giving information. Either the blonde bimbo is paid for, or she is just as stupid as she sounds. Thanks for the post, really appreciate the updates!
I have a hard time believing Liz is stupid. You have to be real smart to get in Television. She knows its an inside job, She is one of them 97% Positive!!
She supports her government murdering her countrymen. 97% positive thats the case.
sleepy2k23 (not verified) on Mon, 05/14/2007 - 3:19pm.
Debunking 9/11 might bring an end to the middle east resource wars (allegedly the war on terror) that are claiming thousands of U.S. soldiers lives and allowing her to fuel what is likely a small fleet of gas guzzling luxury cars, SUV's and RV's in her possibly several mile long driveway that leads to her McMansion way atop some giant hill.
Debunking 9/11 might really jeopadize her lifestyle.
P.S.: Where can I find the You Tube address for that vid?
Perhaps she is a professional agent of the elite. I'm willing to believe that. Perhaps after the revolution, we'll find out who was really just plain stupid and who was employed by an agency of the government.... After the Russian revolution the Czar's secret police records blew everyone's minds as people learned how many people were on the take, well-placed agents in various key positions...
"perhaps after the revolution, we'll find out who was really just plain stupid and who was employed by an agency of the government...."
Yes But after the revolution, all the people who said oh Popular Mechanics, etc etc..who are really covering for the neo-cons are all going to play stupid, and act like they had no idea the entire time.
You watch.
Michelle Malkin, O reilly, Hannity, Liz, Joe Scumbag, Glenn Beck, etc etc will all say I HAD NO IDEA, I REALLY DIDNT KNOW, I REALLY THOUGHT IT WAS AL QUIDA.
They will be lying again, and fools will buy the lie again.
sleepy2k23 (not verified) on Mon, 05/14/2007 - 3:33pm.
I think Hannity is so stupid that he believes the government story. He is the ultimate useful idiot.
I can't believe Bill Maher still believes the government story. If we can convert him it would be huge
"Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th;
malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists, themselves, away from the guilty."
Bill Maher is firmly pro-Israel. He most likely knows the truth of 9/11, he is a very bright guy, but I doubt he could ever publicly admit it for fear of angering the Israelis.
.....on a prior episode and discussion of 9/11. Also, something about how we "can't allow Muslim extremists to control it....", or US entitlement BS to that effect....she's totally bought into the unspoken "we have to kill the brown people and take their oil, because 'the American way-of-life is not negotiable' (to paraphrase the Dick)" mentality, with which so many sheeple rationalize the 9/11 wars.
and she was referring to Iraqis in Iraq, and Iranians in Iran and not letting "them" have the oil, as if all of "them" are terr-ists.
My jaw dropped at it. She actually believes the stuff that comes out of her mouth.
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
DRG would be the best, but theyll attack him and say hes not a specialist, so maybe him and stephen jones. Stepehn jones has a couple of phd physics professors
greg jenkins, then theres the guy crockett grabby...................jones and drg are the best.............................................drg is like a very good lawyer, and then jones has the expertise, it would be a big mistake to let someone w/o an advanced degree on the view like alex jones or kevin ryan, the debunkers will repeatedly bring that up.
what do we need to know about Elisabeth? Well, she was on the TV show Survivor..... she married an NFL quarterback..... AND.......... oh yeah, she was an invited guest to the recent White House white tie dinner hosted by the government for the Queen herself!!! Forgive me ladies but the only reason she is on "The View" is for her looks and as another brain dead puppet for the current administration.
She is simply a mouthpiece. The more you look at who she associates herself with, the more you can pick apart her retarded comments. It's obvious that she is spouting this shit for the benefit of some very selfish causes.
Wow! Just WoW! now we all have to make sure that rosie gets JIM HOFFMAN ON THERE not STEVEN JONES! STEVEN is a great researcher but not so great interviewer/debater! GET KEVIN RYAN AND JIM HOFFMAN ON THERE!!!!
Elizabeth thinks steel 'weakens' at 270 degrees?!! LOL. She's never heard of a wood stove? What an idiot. She's a sad example of how the corporate media can rot the human brain and turn it to mush.
EXACTLY! same thing i was thinking.. I would of said: if FIRE so called can weaken still what is the point of having a GRILL? a wood stove? when the last time you put fire on your grill and watch it buckle or weaken?
You don't think this chick actually cooks her own meals do you? In all fairness, she did say she would have to check on that temperature. I guess she'll ask her illegal immigrant maid to cut the oven all the way up to 300 degrees to see if it collapses.
_______________________
"Cogito ergo sum"
Come on, she is the perfect foil. The cute blond wife of a Super Bowl quarterback with a wind tunnel through her ears, she's perfect for us. "Volcanic forces", "lets get two people from each side", asking if Gouliani was part of the cover-up, this girl is perfect. I don't care if the price of darkness himself were whispering in her ear, she hasn't been able to understand fast enough to keep up in the conversation. Rosie comes across as being magnanimous and well researched. I'll also add that I don't think Hassleback knows what she is doing. She doesn't seem evil and one would have to be to consciously do what she's doing. When all is said and done I'll thank her for her part in getting the truth out.
If we could have two people on there, I'd choose two of: Steven Jones, Kevin Ryan or David Ray Griffin. As long as its not Hufschmidt (sp?) or Fetzer I'm happy. Hoffman would be OK. Mike Berger would work too. The dream team, to me, is Steven Jones and DRG. Jones runs the offense, DRG runs the defense. This is something even Mrs. Hassleback can understand.
"The cute blonde wife of a Super Bowl quarterback"
Although it doesn't matter.... she is not the wife of a Super Bowl Quarterback. She is the wife of a now out of the league EX - Third String Washington Redskins Quarterback. (The other guys brother) I would hate to give someone like her more credit than she deserves.
See what Elizabeth Hasselhoff has to say about that!!
My vote for the debate would be DRG and Jim Hoffman. Kevin Ryan and Steven Jones would be good choices too. How about Richard Gage or one of the engineers he has on board???
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
I wonder what the Chinese and Russian intelligence agencies think of the American television programs they monitor. This one has got to have them laughing their asses off.
to Dr. Hassleback, when she said "the volcanic forces of the towers collapsing could be enough to bring down 7", makes no sense because the building (7) stood for some seven odd hours longer... Was it a very slow collapse? The same retarded argument put forth by the douche-bags at SLC, "fires and damage from an x amount of tonnage aircraft".... right but the buildings stood after all this immense damage, and the fires were subsiding, then they fall. But then theres the speed of all three collapses... which not explainable by jets, damage, fires, or anything else.
its to the point of the ridiculous already.
bring on the physicists...
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
So Fetzer can go on and on about his Darth Vader "directed energy weapons" and how Steven E. Jones thinks Jesus is alive and well and living in Brooklyn? FETZER IS A DISINFO SHILL. I don't know if he was from the beginning, or if the spooks threatened his family or something, but now he's obviously not fighting for truth.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
and dont forget, according to Fetzer, Jones is responsible for killing Cold Fusion. I guess between Jones and KSM we have the answers to nearly everything, ever...
ever.
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
Kevin Barrett and Jim Fetzer do not appear together at all on the dynamic duo show, Fetzer does tues, wed, thurs, and the boy wonder does mondays and fridays. While Barrett maintains Fetzer as a "friend" I have not heard him subscribe to any of Fetzer's disinfo whatsoever. I have great respect for Kevin Barrett, but your post is a bit misleading when you say to listen to "them" daily, which is not the case.
no harm, no foul, just pointing out the facts.
If we aree discussing who'd be the best scientist/physicist etc to be on a show/debate, I have to question why you'd mention fetzer or barret - neither of them are scientists or physicists. Fetzer's degree is in Philosophy of Science, and Barrett deals with Theology and Religion (I forget his actual degree)
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
I agree regarding the conflation of Fetz with Barrett. Barrett ain't like the Fetz.
I don't agree with respect to the philosophy of science. Just that the Fetz ain't a good representative. I attended KSU's M.A. program in phil with a focus. in phil of sci and phil of logic before going on into neuroscience and neuropsychology. It is a very appropriate discipline from which to argue scientific issues. But in this instance, you want to have an architect, structural engineer and physicist. I would add in Kevin Ryan and Jim Hoffmann because they argue very well and know their stuff. But they would lose credence with the public (who don't usually know about the 'reference to authority' fallacy in argumentation) if they went up against Ph.D. physicists etc. for the dark side.
==================================================================
"There are none so hoplessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." (Goethe)
I think Jim Hoffman is the sharpest intellect I've seen so far. He seems like he could really think on his toes and react well. Gage is a damn good suggestion too.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Therefore Gage and a Physisist who understands the reality, would be the very best choice. Let Gage himself find the physisist, would be my suggestion.
Rosie? Are you listening?
If you are, you should be aware that 9.2 seconds is free fall in a complete vacuum, and that with air resistence factored in, it's between 10 and 12 seconds for a total free fall time, and the buildings went down in 12-14 seconds in actuality, though the 9/11 Commission pegs the south tower at 10 seconds and the NIST FAQ, something like 11 and 9 seconds for the south and north towers respectively, though NIST never even ONCE in its 10,000 page report made mention of the fall time.
When Steven Jones was debating this with Leslie Robertson, at the mention of the fall time, Robertson went off on a tangent about how could they have placed the explosives.
It's one of if not THE strongest possible arguments regarding 9/11, that and how the heck flight 77 was allowed to enter Pentagon airspace.. without a single shot being fired.
____________________________
On the 11th day, of every month. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nRs8cu5Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftruthaction...
Why is he on video talking about how he did thermodynamic equations for the dust clouds??? Maybe I didn't check his actual credentials, but after hearing him argue his points about the collapses, I was confident with his understanding of the event. What is his field of expertise? I read a bit of his thermodynamics paper... He's plenty qualified to talk about the issue.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
I do remember hearing that actually.
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
He does claim that there is stronger evidence to suggest plane at Penta, rather than no plane. I think the evidence is probably inconclusive thusfar. We should focus on demanding the release of the other tapes (if they haven't been destroyed) and the impossibility of anything penetrating Pentagon airspace on any old day, let alone after what happened in New York. The fact that the Pentagon was hit at all pretty much proves a stand-down all by itself. I haven't seen enough to convince me as to what did or did not hit... Could have been mokie-troll plane, could have been missle...
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Obviously was curious as to what Rosie was saying, went to research the "debunkings" so she could feel safe and secure in her ignorance, and came across Popular Mechanics (or was told about them), and clung to them as if her sanity depended on it. Let's remember that within the last 2-3 months, Elizabeth was questioned about whether or not Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attacks, and she was still "struggling" with that. She is not the brightest bulb in the box.
Or more likely, a stroke. Did you see his row with Geraldo? The cortisol (stress hormone) was practically seeping through his poors. I don't know how a person with his anger level at his age can avoid gettiing seriously ill, but maybe it's just the luck 'o the Irish.
"They took it from the top to the bottom, we're gonna take them from the bottom to the top." - Dan Wallace
Is it will force the attack dogs to speak on the issue more. Keep it up Rosie. NOW WOULD BE A GREAT TIME FOR OTHER CELEBS TO START SPEAKING UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We want a chain reaction!
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"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
yes just like a progressive runaway collapse of a skyscraper, only this time it will be FOR REAL and it will be the "official story" that is the "skyscraper".
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
"WOULD BE A GREAT TIME FOR OTHER CELEBS TO START SPEAKING UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We want a chain reaction!"
It sure would. I hope they're not planning to leave Rosie, Charlie and the few others who have spoken up to go it alone. Where's Jack Nicholson and Warren Beatty? It's time to stand up.
Okay, I respect that you have your own theory about the planes/ no-planes blah blah and you are not alone in that theory. HOWEVER, I hate that you claim as fact that people who saw first hand the planes hit are paid! TOTAL B.S.! My best friend saw the 2nd plane hit live so shut the fuc* up when it comes to making THAT claim would you! Thanks. BTW, I don't get into in-fighting so this is it for me.
Andrew, you describe what may have happened in a comment at the above link. I think some people could have been lying, particularly in the media, but many were confused and influenced by what we were being told on television. Most people in the media likely also believed what was on their screens. Putting a plane on their screens is not at all difficult in a technical sense.
If I could ask, Tonya, where was your best friend and what did he see? Thank you.
My friend lives across the river in New Jersey. The entire back side of his house faces Manhattan---beautiful view! The whole backside is nothing but windows from floor to ceiling across the back of the house--gorgeous. Anyway, on the morning of 9/11/01 his partner went into the city to work and he stayed in bed. His mom called him and woke him up. He was at the back of the house looking out over the skyline while talking to his mom. He sees the smoke from the first building hit and sees as it occurs the second plane fly in. HE SEES it with his OWN EYES! He stays on the phone with his mom in horror with all of this and then panics trying to figure out if his partner is safe since he is in the city--realizing it was more than an accidental plane crash. Anyway, that is what happened. I called all day long on 9/11 trying to reach him to see if he was okay--knowing he lives and works there ( Il ive in Indiana), anyway finally late the next night I got a connection --phones were freakin crazy that day going in and out--his partner asked me not to ask him too much about it because he was really shaken up about the whole thing--what he saw. So, after getting the basic details from him that night, I have not brought it up since. I know he doesn't like to even think about it. Anyway, don't doubt it man, it happened, people with their own naked eyes saw them hit --by planes(or at the very least, something that looked like planes). We have enough info to bring down the bastards who did this without bringing in "no-plane" stuff to debate. I DO respect your research into that area though---that is just my opinion. You continue to do what you feel is right, I just don't want people slandering real life witnesses. Peace & respect to all people seeking the truth!
P.S. it is sad to look at the skyline from his backyard now versus before 911. I'm glad I got to see the towers before they fell--were blown up rather!
"Other people behind me on land had a wider view and said they saw the second plane approach from far away, figuring it was a rescue plane of some kind." Dave
keep in mind elizabeth fills in on FOX in the morning.she has been embraced as one of them -the new generation.as someone who came to 9/11 truth from rosie saying google WTC7 i beg you to think about this.we all know what liz said was FOX bullshit.we know the argument will be the PM talking points.what ROSIE needs is the best person to COUNTER THAT ARGUMENT.the PM debunked facts.get it?rosie did okay today because we all knew what she was talking about.imagine if you were lost on the points.WHAT?look at her response to the 1st responders health issues.she may as well be ann coulter.she backs the GOP based on abortion.period.elizabeth and FOX spew the PM crap.WHO IS THE BEST PERSON TO ARGUE AGAINST THE PM CRAP?and stick to the facts of the buildings.PERIOD.the goal is to get the points across and get people to understand in a few minutes.to debunk the PM crap .with conviction and authority.
For turning up the heat! EH shows why there are blonde jokes.
I only hope Rosie is going to go for the throat with these last few episodes.
Did you here EH say popular mechanics? Almost too funny.
Let's do the whole show on this Rosie. I suggest three for 9/11 truth....Three for 9/11 non truth.
#1 Dr. Steven Jones #2 Dr. Ray Griffin #3 Kevin Ryan.
Would love to have a suprize visit from Sibel Edmonds. I highly doubt any debate would take place.They can't do it. They know it.
So Rosie keep telling people to look and decide for themselves. Anyone with an IQ over 20 can see the official version is
a 110 story pile of bullshit.
Awesome video! Rosie is right what she said about people not wanting to talk about it. I encounter that a lot. I keep talking tho. We all have too! Only death will silence me.
I vote for DRG and Steven Jones. They are both very intelligent men, DRG is a very eloquent speaker and Steven Jones is a certified phycisist who can back up any of DRG's claims if his credibility as a professor of religion is questioned.
Dear Ro, I would love to see a show with experts on both sides to discuss WTC7.Silly to always talk about it but never realy pursue the truth once and for all, don’t you think? Please?
her intelligence is volcanic.What an asset to the truth movement!
Humm? Maybe she ment that some plastic's weaken at 270 degree's.
Damn i sure had a good laugh.
1. This is a very dangerous time for another 911 type false flag attack.
2. SHUT that blonde blankety blank know-it-all loud motor mouth pseudoscience ignorant traitor bit_h UP.
She talks like she invented e=mc**2.
Ignorant know it all lady, how could building 7 collapse symmetrically at free fall speed into its own footprint. This would require all supports of WTC 7 to break at exactly the same time (the inner supports a fraction of second before the outer ones) everywhere in the building. This is what controlled demolitions are. When was the last time anyone saw a controlled demolition company lighting a building on fire to bring it down at free fall speed into its own footprint. All the controlled demolition companies use well placed and well timed explosives.
If steel could be weakened by fire's at the temperature of building fires (which it can not) then parts of the building might collapse but not the whole building; and the building would fall asymetrically onto the adjacent buildings; and majors parts of the building would still be standing.
My reaction to the blonde hag:
Excuse me while I go throw up.
Its only the following things at stake:
a few billions lives,
our constitution,
our wealth,
the sovereignty of the US,
our jobs,
our existence as a country,
our republic way of life,
our futures,
our kids futures,
the future of all humanity,
our very lives.
I don't think this blonde lady has a clue about how damaging she is.
She is a mouthpiece of the Matrix.
Is she one of the Mockingbird crowd ?
I apologize if this is a rookie type request, but many who talk about temperatures regarding the steel at the WTC on 9/11 have no clue what they are talking about (including myself). Also, celsius, farenheit and centigrade need to be distinguished.
Can someone post a link to a chart which shows the temperatures at which steel weakens, melts, etc.,- but also list these temperatures in celsius, farenheit and centigrade.
When hasselbeck talks out of her @$$ that steel weakens at 270 degrees, is she talking about farenheit, celsius, or centigrade? (not that it would matter)
Anyhow, this is basic info that EVERYone should be on the same page with.
JR writes:
Hi Rosie,
Can you please get Prof. Steven E. Jones and Prof. David Ray Griffin to come on and expose the pack of professional liars over at popular mechanics regarding 9/11? Thanks,
JR
rick writes:
Please for the love of gawd will you have a segment or a whole show talking about WTC7 and 911. These issues have divided our country and its high time for truth, healing, and peace! Please Please TY!
wouldnt that be fascinating
nathalie writes:
Hi Ro,
Please see Dr. Judy Wood’s 9/11 page at http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/
Very informative, and should be on the upcoming show.
Can’t believe you got them to do it!! WooHoo! So Love you!!
Nat
For the love of GOD or goodness eternal....PLEASE don't bother with the Youtube comments on this video. Holy crap that thing is a friggin cluster f**k.
There's a couple of guys on there, govspysonallchats and Barbel1th that are totally rabid 'agent' labelers. Labeling EVERYONE an agent who disagrees with their ridiculous tactics. I haven't seen people more befitting of the term 'nutjob'. Saying I'm an agent for saying what their doing is just making a bad name for 9/11 truth by havng the temerity to suggest that there's SOME in 9/11 truth that are idiots..and they are being used to fill the balloons of hot air for O'reilly, Malkin, etc when they whine about 'nuts'.
Pots calling the kettle black when their horrible points are exactly the same kind they reference as 'agentlike' yet fail to see how there's nothing stopping me from calling them agents.
I can't believe I was dumb enough to continue posting. It seems to only drill their idiotic assumptions deeper.
Almost a mirror image of what they're ostensibly against.
Remember Anti-Rosie Sites?
stoproise.com
boycottrosie
Michelle Malkin and her boycott the Views Advertisers??
Lets BOYCOTT Elizabeth.
Stopliz.com
Lets do wat the neo-cons did to rosie, but wit liz.
Lets demend she be fired for picking up for the neo-cons./.
Great idea...
Anyone able to put up a web site or blog to do that?
waste of time
I could but I'm not going to.
Why not dedicate time to the positive? The amount of energy to do something like could be lent to much bigger and more positive things.
Can't Stop 9/11 Fever
Where Eliabeth Gets her Facts
Liz gets Her facts reading Mickey Mouse Comic Books!
Yeah Go Mickey!!
Sleep, suggestions..
With all do respect...
You have to realize that the natural psychological reaction that one has when they are faced with a lie of such magnificent proportions is to deny and protect your own world view.
My point is that we should all be more open to alternative view points no matter how far away they are from our own. Image is everything and I think 9/11 Truth needs to be seen as a reasonable group of concerned citizens....not reactionary..."you believe what I believe or you are a flaming idiot"
or my fav..
"you believe what I believe or you are on the list of suspected 'non-truthers"
Can't Stop 9/11 Fever
true
and im waiting for the day when the unwitting shill decides to go public and confesses their ignorance along with their anger and outspokeness. Thats what scares the NWO more than anything. I would almost have to bet their is something like that brewing.
Let Elizabeth speak!
It is a much grander gesture to fight for liz right to speak. What did she say? Steel weakens at 275 degrees... UH OH! I have chicken in the oven right now - I better make sure it's not sagging and about to collapse!
www.freewebs.com/springfield911truth
www.myspace.com/culturalrelativity
that's exactly right
it's a waste of time to "stop liz".
The stop rosie sites actually HELP our cause. they bring attention to it. Let's not bring attention to liz and her crazy neoconian theories.
Attacking Liz would be a waste of time and discredit us
Liz said it takes 240 degrees to weaken steel. She is not credible and she wants Popular Mechanics to debate. I don't mind that idea so much but she clearly is not open minded or objective about this issue.
I think rather than attacking her...let's get the ABC station some real support to do a show that has a real debate. Let the viewers decide for themselves.
Stay positive folks. It adds credibility to us all.
I disagree. Liz is good for the movement.
Rosie's articulate thoughtful questions really stand out compared to Liz's canned mind control response.
Truth Will Prevail
Rosie, if you're reading this...
...Get either Kevin Ryan or Richard Gage to go on the View with Bill Doyle and/or Bob McIlvaine. Kevin Ryan would be best because he is a whistle blower and lost his job - he has been personally affected by this. As appealing as the idea of an "objective" debate might be, it's impossible. In a dream world where ABC actually lets this happen, best to go with two or three people who have been personally affected by this, that's what's going to win your daytime audience. AND that they know EXACTLY what they're talking about, in other words you can feel the truth oozing from them, AND that they've made a legal petition to NIST seeking corrections to the NIST report. When a man who lost his job to expose controlled demolition and a man who lost his son in that controlled demolition are on National Television talking about that controlled demolition, everyone's jaw will drop.
Holy shit, there's a volcano
Holy shit, there's a volcano under NYC!? Why is this the first time I'm hearing about it?! Aw schucks, Beaver, now I have to move again!!! Flippity-floppity!!!
"They took it from the top to the bottom, we're gonna take them from the bottom to the top." - Dan Wallace
Rosie will now be attacked 4 saying there was Molten Steel @ GZ
So if you see anyone using this argument against her on message boards, at digg.com, etc.., here's what you do:
First post John Gross' denial that there were any reports about the Molten Steel at Ground Zero:
NIST engineer, John Gross, denies the existence of Molten Steel - 10/18/06
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7180303712325092501&hl=en
Then post all of these documented news reports about the Molten Steel...
(FYI if you try to repost this info, some of the links will need to be copied and pasted manually since 911blogger drops off the end of longer links posted. If you see "..." at the end of any of these links, simply right click and "copy link location" to grab the entire link)
"These reports came from two men involved in the removal of the rubble: Peter Tully of Tully Construction of Flushing, N.Y., and Mark Loizeaux of Controlled Demolition, Inc. of Phoenix, Md.
Tully told AFP that he had seen pools of “literally molten steel” in the rubble.
Loizeaux confirmed this: “Yes, hot spots of molten steel in the basements,” he said, “at the bottom of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven levels.”
The molten steel was found “three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed,” he said. He confirmed that molten steel was also found at WTC 7 [...]"
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/cutter_charges_brought_down_wt.html
An employee of New Jersey's Task Force One Urban Search and Rescue witnessed "Fires burning and molten steel flowing in the pile of ruins still settling beneath her feet."
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/sasalum/newsltr/summer2002/k911.html
The head of a team of scientists studying the potential health effects of 9/11, reported, "Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense. In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel."
http://www.jhsph.edu/Publications/Special/Welch.htm
A public health advisor who arrived at Ground Zero on September 12, said that "feeling the heat" and "seeing the molten steel" there reminded him of a volcano.
http://www.neha.org/9-11%20report/index-The.html
New York firefighters recalled in a documentary film, "heat so intense they encountered rivers of molten steel."
http://www.nypost.com/movies/19574.htm
According to a worker involved with the organizing of demolition, excavation and debris removal operations at ground zero, "Underground it was still so hot that molten metal dripped down the sides of the wall from Building 6."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/congress/9-11_commission/
An expert stated about World Trade Center building 7, "A combination of an uncontrolled fire and the structural damage might have been able to bring the building down, some engineers said. But that would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been PARTLY EVAPORATED in extraordinarily high temperatures" (pay-per-view).
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10812FF3F590C7A8EDDA809...
Note that evaporation means conversion from a liquid to a gas; so the steel beams in building 7 were subjected to temperatures high enough to melt and evaporate them.
http://www.answers.com/evaporation&r=67
A reporter with rare access to the debris at ground zero "descended deep below street level to areas where underground fires still burned and steel flowed in molten streams."
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/07/77nwash.htm
The same journalist also refers to "the streams of molten metal that leaked from the hot cores and flowed down broken walls inside the foundation hole." (pages 31-32)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002E5QKI/qid=1133995198/sr=1-5/ref=sr...
An engineer stated in the September 3, 2002 issue of The Structural Engineer, "They showed us many fascinating slides ranging from molten metal, which was still red hot weeks after the event."
http://web.archive.org/web/20030422113455/http://www.istructe.org.uk/abo...
An Occupational Safety and Health Administration Officer at the Trade Center reported a fire truck 10 feet below the ground that was still burning two weeks after the Tower collapsed, "its metal so hot that it looked like a vat of molten steel."
http://www.thenewliberator.com/wethepeople.htm
The structural engineer responsible for the design of the WTC, described fires still burning and molten steel still running 21 days after the attacks.
http://www.seau.org/SEAUNews-2001-10.pdf
According to a member of New York Air National Guard's 109th Air Wing, who was at Ground Zero from September 22 to October 6, "One fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers' remains. Firemen sprayed water to cool the debris down but the heat remained intense enough at the surface to melt their boots."
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3731/is_200112/ai_n9015802
A fireman stated that there were "oven" like conditions at the trade centers six weeks after 9/11.
http://plaguepuppy.net/public_html/video%20archive/red_hot_ground_zero_l...
Firemen and hazardous materials experts also stated that, six weeks after 9/11, "There are pieces of steel being pulled out [from as far as six stories underground] that are still cherry red" and "the blaze is so 'far beyond a normal fire' that it is nearly impossible to draw conclusions about it based on other fires." (pay-per-view)
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/nydailynews/87451160.html?did=87451160&FMT=A...
A NY Department of Sanitation spokeswoman said "for about two and a half months after the attacks, in addition to its regular duties, NYDS played a major role in debris removal - everything from molten steel beams to human remains...."
http://wasteage.com/mag/waste_dday_ny_sanitation/
As late as five months after the attacks, in February 2002, firefighter Joe O'Toole saw a steel beam being lifted from deep underground at Ground Zero, which, he says, "was dripping from the molten steel."
http://www.fallenbrothers.com/community/showthread.php?p=2948#post2948
Indeed, the trade center fire was "the longest-burning structural fire in history",
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1634
even though it rained heavily on September 14, 2001
http://www.courttv.com/assault_on_america/0914_rain_ap.html
and again on September 21, 2001,
http://www.wnbc.com/news/962722/detail.html
and the fires were sprayed with high tech fire-retardands,
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1634
and "firetrucks [sprayed] a nearly constant jet of water on" ground zero."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/12/19/archive/main321907.shtml
Indeed, "You couldn't even begin to imagine how much water was pumped in there," said Tom Manley of the Uniformed Firefighters Association, the largest fire department union. "It was like you were creating a giant lake."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/12/19/archive/main321907.shtml
Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2005
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2005/12/why-was-there-molten-metal-...
Molten Steel links originally posted at Physorg by forum member Foxx:
http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtopic=3108&st=5550&#entry65201
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, consider posting what Dr. Frank Greening (of 911myths.com) has recently come out to say regarding the molten steel:
"There is some crucial scientific evidence for the presence of molten iron or steel in the pulverized remains of WTC 1 & 2"
"I am referring to the observation of micron-sized iron spherules that have been seen in many WTC dust samples. These spherical particles are direct physical evidence that the iron within the particle was molten at the time the particle formed."
"The formation of spherical iron particles has been well documented and researched for steel making processes... Iron spheres in the 30 micron to 1 micron range are typically seen in the dust-laden off-gases produced by molten steel and are believed to be formed by the ejection of metal droplets when the liquid metal degasses."
"...some steel appears to have melted in the WTC prior to the collapse of the buildings."
"Iron spherules and elevated levels of airborne ZINC prove there was molten iron/steel in the WTC."
"This implies that some iron or steel in the twin towers was exposed to temperatures ABOVE 1539 deg C. Such temperatures are much too high for hydrocarbon fires in the twin towers according to NIST's own studies."
"I would say that the presence of molten iron in the WTC is inconsistent with the NIST Report’s conclusion that temperatures in the towers during 9/11 were well below the melting point of iron or steel."
"NIST, in its fire simulations, tried very hard to get steel (>95 % iron) to temperatures above 1000 deg C but failed!"
"How did the fires in the rubble pile melt steel?"
"Why does the presence, I mean the FACT, of molten steel in the Twin Towers bother you so much?" (Greening's questions directed at other forum members who were denying the existence of molten steel at Ground Zero)
-Dr. Frank Greening, originally posted at Physorg.com March/April 2007 as forum member "NEU-FONZE", and as "Apollo20" at Forums.Randi.org, April 2007
Frank Greening's Bio:
http://www.911myths.com/html/dr_frank_greening_bio.html
A few more recent quotes from Dr. Greening...
"I have a personal e-mail FROM A VERY RESPECTED PROFFESOR OF ENGINEERING at an AMERICAN UNIVERSITY in which he notes that his attempts to publish his research into the collapse of WTC 1 & 2 in US and British journals has been blocked.
This means work disputing NIST's findings is nowhere to be found because it is simply being censored by over-cautious editors!" -Dr. Frank Greeing, posted at Physorg.com as forum member "NEU-FONZE", Mar 20 2007 - 9/11 Events - part 3, pg. 91
"NIST has no PROOF that fire insulation was stripped by the aircraft impacts in the critical areas ABOVE the impact zones. In fact it is highly UNLIKELY that this happened, and without the loss of thermal insulation, NIST's collapse theory falls apart.
The loss of thermal insulation idea is obviously an ad hoc hypothesis added by NIST to salvage a failed collapse theory" -Dr. Frank Greeing, posted at Physorg.com as forum member "NEU-FONZE", Mar 20 2007 - 9/11 Events - part 3, pg. 92
"The truth about 9/11 is too important to declare the matter closed just because NIST have written a book or two on it.
NIST themselves call their version of the truth an HYPOTHESIS. Does that preclude the consideration of other hypotheses?
Is it the NIST apologists' plan to keep up the nay-saying until they silence any dissenting voices and declare: "CASE CLOSED!"
Well, sorry to tell you, it won't work!" -Dr. Frank Greeing, posted at Physorg.com as forum member "NEU-FONZE", Mar 20 2007 - 9/11 Events - part 3, pg.102
_______________
"If I had just paid $20 million for the NIST report, I'd be asking for a refund!" -Dr. Frank Greening
Great Post
One more thing:
Jones' new paper mentions "iron rich spheres". This means MOLTEN STEEL. USGS official studies confirm this and claim that they were "frequently seen". This is devastating evidence for molten STEEL.
“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."
Thanks.
Yes I agree that the evidence for molten steel is devastating to the official story.
NIST omitted ALL of the evidence of molten steel from their 10,000 page report.
This is undeniable proof that NIST participated in covering up crucial evidence that could have helped determine why the towers came down.
_______________
"If I had just paid $20 million for the NIST report, I'd be asking for a refund!" -Dr. Frank Greening
Answers
1) Because sometimes you are looking at a photo and you can't tell if it is steel or not. Analysis proves what it is, as Jones has done
2) Because she is an active promoter of disinformation.
“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."
USGS Spectroscopy Lab - World Trade Center USGS thermal
Images of the World Trade Center Site Show Thermal Hot Spots on September 16 and 23, 2001
U. S. Geological Survey, Open File Report OF-01-405
Roger N. Clark1, Robert O. Green2, Gregg A. Swayze1, Todd M. Hoefen1, K. Eric Livo1, Betina Pavi2, Chuck Sarcher2, Joe Boardman4, and J. Sam Vance3
1U. S. Geological Survey,
Denver, Colorado
2Jet Propulsion Lab
Pasadena, California
3U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
Denver, Colorado
4Analytical Imaging and Geophysics, LLC Boulder, Colorado
This report presents results of Airborne Visible/Infrared Imaging Spectrometer (AVIRIS) remote sensing data and interpretations that map the distribution and intensity of thermal hot spots in the area in and around the World Trade Center on September 16 and 23, 2001. Data collected on the 16th were processed, interprested and release to emergency response teams on the 18th of September, 2001. The September 23 data were processed, interpreted and the results released on October 12, 2001. The images of the World Trade Center site show significant thermal hot spots on Sept. 16, 2001. By Sept. 23, 2001, most of the hot spots had cooled or the fires had been put out.
The AVIRIS instrument is a National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) remote sensing instrument that measures upwelling spectral radiance in the visible through short-wavelength infrared. The instrument has 224 spectral channels (bands) with wavelengths from 0.37 to 2.5 microns (micrometers).
In response to requests from the EPA through the USGS, NASA flew AVIRIS on a De Havilland Twin Otter over lower Manhattan at mid-day on September 16 and 23, 2001. For these deployments, the Twin Otter was flown at altitudes of 6,500 and 12,500 feet. The spectral data for the maps shown here were measured at 6,500 feet and have a spatial resolution (pixel spacing) of approximately 6 feet (2 meters).
AVIRIS records the near-infrared signature of heat remotely. The accompanying maps are false color images that show the core affected area around the World Trade Center. Initial analysis of these data revealed a number of thermal hot spots on September 16 in the region where the buildings collapsed 5 days earlier. Analysis of the data indicates temperatures greater than 800oF. Over 3 dozen hot spots appear in the core zone. By September 23, only 4, or possibly 5, hot spots are apparent, with temperatures cooler than those on September 16.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0405/hotspots-compare.jpg
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0405/wtc-r09.091601.usgs-thermal.jpg
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0405/wtc-r14.092301.usgs-thermal.jpg
Public Exhibit 1
Very nice post indeed,
Is there a site that has all the documentation (like this) that provides links to each piece of evidence and/or anomalies from 911?
If not, then I would highly recommend it, since it clearly illustrates the huge amounts of data available on each piece of evidence.
The website could be referenced by people who appear on the MSM, so that viewers can find the topic of discussion fast and easy.
Anyone new to 911 would quickly understand why a new investigation is warranted, and it would help to quell debunkers with tons of factual information.
The website could also prove to be very useful for any indictments, Grand Jury's and/or Criminal cases in the future since everything would be cataloged and referenced for public exhibition.
Great job!
Good idea. Create a blog about it
But there are quite a few websites out there that cover what you're talking about. Jim Hoffman's website is one.
http://911research.wtc7.net/index.html
_______________
"If I had just paid $20 million for the NIST report, I'd be asking for a refund!" -Dr. Frank Greening
Excellent!!!
This is what I'm talking about!! Coordination!! Stallion's got it people. If you encounter any bedunkers trying to poo-poo molten steel, just copy and paste that right over. Don't even continue to debate after!!! Just lay that on them then be like, "WHUT!" LOL!!! Really. Bedunk that you morons.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
UPDATE: This just posted on Rosie's blog...
evie writes:
"Dear Ro, I would love to see a show with experts on both sides to discuss WTC7.Silly to always talk about it but never realy pursue the truth once and for all, don’t you think? Please?"
RO writes:
"the show has been booked "
More here:
http://www.rosie.com/blog/sections/ask-ro/
_______________
"If I had just paid $20 million for the NIST report, I'd be asking for a refund!" -Dr. Frank Greening
We call your Bluff
I hope they have a real debate so the truth can finally be shown to millions of housewives.
I hope Rosie selects David Ray Griffin, Prof. Steven Jones, Alex Jones and/or Webster Tarpley to discuss WTC7.
Except for DRG you have all
Except for DRG you have all the wrong people! Alex Screams to much, Steven: Great Researcher, Bad Debater.
we need JIM HOFFMAN and/or KEVIN RYAN!!!!!!
please someone help me get in contact with Jim or Kevin, I will pay them myself to go on Rosie.
I agree that Jim and David
I agree that Jim and David would make the best team to debate the subject matter.
May I suggest that the 911 truth movement form a "911 Truth Commission" to stay on topic with well documented evidence that will eliminate straw-man arguments and have well spoken representatives that appear on the MSM to present the truth of "911" to the general public.
Yes.
More planning and organization, less "winging it". We should also be putting our best face (speakers/debaters) forward. I was disappointed with Tarpley's performance on H&C. I thought he should have had talking points prepared, and planned out how to control the dialogue. He was just reacting.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
It ain't easy playing defense.
"I was disappointed with Tarpley's performance on H&C."
It's not easy to debate H&C on their turf. They enjoy a psychological edge. It is more than just their attack
techniques. It has to do with volume differences, camera angles, lighting etc. It doesn't take a television producer to
see whats going on there. Also it isn't that hard (from H&C's dominant position) to challenge someone to make a definitive
statement, then ridicule it. Especially if they are controlling the images and dialog.
I think what the Truth Movement is good at is pointing out flaws in the official theory. What we suck at is explaining what actually happened.
If the tables are turned and the Hannity and Coles of this world were forced to defend the official story they could be challenged on so many points. I admire Tarpley as an incredibly intelligent and articulate writer, but IMHO he would have scored more points by simply asking if H&C didn't see any problems with the official theory, then challenging THEM on the inconsistencies.
Even Rosie, brave as she is, has trouble articulating her thoughts in such a short timeframe and in such a raucous environment. I mean think about it, how easy would it be to challenge Elizabeths statement about the "volcano effect?" It makes absolutely no sense whatever, yet she got away with it because of time constraints and confusing dialog. And what about the 270 degree heat? My oven gets over 500 degrees and hasn't melted yet.
My point is, as we have seen thus far, it is not easy to argue the Truth message. Intelligent and perceptive Germans had the same challenges in 1933 trying to debunk Hitler. Sadly they didn't get through to the populace. We still have that opportunity. Maybe the best tactic is to poke holes in the official theory. The Truth is on our side. We need to believe it and articulate it.
....
I commented at length about the Tarpley appearance in the two threads dedicated to the topic, so I won't rehash here. We need to strive to do better, not settle for mediocrity. Read those other threads. I offer some construtive ideas that others might be able to use or improve upon.
They enjoy a psychological edge.
If someone who is trying to prop up a flimsy and outrageously false lie enjoys a psychological edge over people who are using REAL science and REAL evidence, we have a big problem. I disagree with you though, I don't think they have a psychological edge. I think we do, and we should start behaving like it.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
psychological edge
Mr Consciousness. I think we agree that we have the edge when it comes to the Truth. My point was that they have the home field advantage in their studio when it comes to propping up their outrageously false lie, in the same way that Joseph Goebbels had the edge in manipulating Germans thinking by using their particular propaganda techniques.
Propaganda is predictable.
We can study it, deconstruct it, and subvert it. Tarpley should have been prepared to do debates, as he has taken such a public role. He should have expected to face this sort of thing, and even studied tapes of H&C. Proactive, not reactive. I go into this in depth in the other two Tarpley threads...
Home field advantage doesn't guarantee a win.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
The Art of War
Take their argument and make it your own. Spin questions to suit your argument. It is something that these people have spent much time learning. They have been schooled on how to give the allusion that they are in control.
When they get an inch they take a mile. We must know how to use their own stragegy against them. We will win peoples curiosities if the argument appears to be won.
Face it. They will never give us sufficient time to explain the possibilities of how they managed to get this done.... or get into the many ties to their writings and idealogies..... or the many instances of lies and cover-ups.... or the history.... Or even scratch the surface of the many reasons why they would do something like this.
We simply have to rise above their bullying. Defeat the arguers before the argument by creating the path to the information by corrupting the line of questioning.
Bend the barrel of the gun so that those firing the weapon are shooting themselves.....BOOM!
___________________
Together in Truth!
Reply to any question asked by H & C
"I knew you would ask me that question. I thought you brought me on here to talk about Building 7? Lets talk about a steel structure which for the first time in history fell due to FIRE. Not hit by a plane. Fell at near freefall speeds into its own footpriint. Demonstrating all the characteristics of a controlled demolition. Steel buildings do not just fall down. Show the footage which 50% of Americans have not seen. What are you afraid of? Show the building buckle and fall into itself. Show the small fires. Show the NIST Report on WTC 7! oooohhhhhhh! There isn't one. Why was this collapse left unexplained by the 911 Commission. What about the testimony of Norman Minetta?? William Rodriguez??
You want to ask me about John Kerry? Do we really need to continue to discuss the incompetence and ignorance of our political elite? I bet he's part of the 50% of Americans who don't even know what year 911 happened let alone the collapse of a building which was deleted from the Main Stream Media recollection of the events.
You want to bring the families of the victims into this argument then perhaps you should allow me to bring you the hundreds of family members who are asking the very same questions and voicing the very same concerns to your studio so you can stop speaking for them and allow them to tell the world how they feel.
You will not speak for those people much longer. You will not tell the American People what to think anymore."
___________________
Together in Truth!
9/11 Fever is spreading like wildfire
IMHO, the key to getting 9/11 across to the general public is going to be putting a message out there that is simple, concise, 100% accurate, well-known to Truthers, and easily debated on the primary points. A simple one page outline of direct statements (talking points), a simple mock-up 9/11 position stance for political candidates, and a simple time-line based narrative of the major events will accomplish this. I've seen a few 'quick guides', 'facts of 9/11' and similar, but the three documents that I just outlined - the talking points, the position stance, and the narrative, will be invaluable. I'm not particularly interested in seeing more in-depth books, essays, web-sites, documentaries, and what-not, as I am in seeing useful, hard-hitting, MSM-palatable, 100% accurate PR materials and easily accessible quick studies for anyone to use. This sort of thing will be invaluable to the movement.
The advantage that we have is that we support the truth, and further investigations that will shine more light upon the truth. The advantage that they have is their slick PR savvy, and their control of the media. With a little PR savvy of our own, and some cool-headed representatives from our movement, we can easily turn the tide. Most of the 9/11 Truth reps discussed could do a little debate/public appearance/speech giving/PR training of some sort and become better than they have ever imagined. Our best chance is for our movement leaders to spend a little time and effort in preparing themselves for such occasions. I don't know how much of 9/11 Truth movement money raised is spent on training our leaders in the "media arts", but it would all be money well spent. Most of our leaders are either academics or professionals who have access to such services, and I would encourage them to spend some time improving their publicity and appearance skills.
9/11 Truth is happening; with a little hard work and organization we can make it happen.
Brilliant.
And worthy of a blog post with commentary as well.
9/11 Truth Reps suck...sorry
Sorry, but that is my opinion.
I think that a show like the view will not allow for an indepth debate so we have to hope for something like a debate just on the physics of the collapses.
If it is in fact "Impossible" for these builings to collapse at the speed in which they did, then we should have physics professionals on there debating the issue. If it is a matter of physics, then Alex Jones can stay home, David Ray can stay home, and Tarpley can stay home.
Now Professor Jones I'm not sure about. I would not have him on because he is so invovled with the 9/11 Truth movement. I think a physics professional that is more detached from the movement would be much more effective.
Can't Stop 9/11 Fever
How can anyone who knows and acknowledges
the truth be "detached"? Less publicly known sure, but we don't want someone to go up there and act ambivalent about the hard facts. It's not a matter of "These guys have this theory, and those guys have that theory. Now the public can decide." It's a matter of informing people of the actual scientific reality of the situation. The purpose of a debate is to expose the fake science of the bedunkers, not to give all "opinions" equal consideration.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Physics are Physics
If it's a matter of 'simple physics' then a professional physicist would do fine in the debate.
It's not about 9/11...atleast not in this debate. It shouldn't be about proving it was an inside job. That won't happen until after you prove that the 'official explanation' is impossible.
My fear with the 'truthers' being the spokesmen for this sort of debate is that they bring so much to the table. They immediately are presented as the divisive 'conspiracy believers'.
So, bring on PHYSICS professionals that talk about the PHYSICS not inside jobs and pakistani ISI agents.
Can't Stop 9/11 Fever
Crockette Grabbe, perhaps?
I have no idea if this guy is good at debating issues, but he recently came forward with is own concerns about the WTC collapses on 9/11.
INN_CrockettGrabbeDebunksCockburnWTC7_2007_04_22_01.mp3
Sorry, you'll have to cut & paste the above link to hear Prof. Grabbe. I can't seem to make the link hot.
( 1.87mb )
Crockett Grabbe
Department of Physics and Astronomy
University of Iowa
Iowa City, IA 52242
E-mail: grabbe@einstein.physics.uiowa.edu
crockett-grabbe@uiowa.edu
http://sealane.org/consulting/consultindex.html
Telephone: 319-335-1929 Office
319-335-1753 Fax
The World Trade Center Collapse: Waiting for a Fuse
http://sealane.org/writings/NYCollapse.html
The WTC collapse was in fact caused by explosive devices planted well in advance - explosives just waiting there to be triggered by the heat of the airplanes crashing into the towers to result in their collapse.
It is known that the steel structures making up buildings can perform badly in a fire without adequate fire retardents, and with hot fires can lose their strength to hold the huge stresses in a building like the World Trade Center. However, if that was the critical problem, the collapse would follow a definitely different path than was observed. Evidence for the structural degradation would likely appear before the final collapse, and the process would accelerate toward catastrophe.
http://www.physics.uiowa.edu/~cgrabbe
http://www.physics.uiowa.edu/~cgrabbe/writing/research.html
Plasma Turbulence
G. K. Knorr, H. Mond, and C. L. Grabbe, "Relaxation States of an Ideal MHD Plasma with External Magnetic Field," Journal of Plasma Physics, 53, 373-85, 1995.
Physics and Philosophy
C. L. Grabbe, invited Critical Review of R. M. Russell, "Whitehead, Einstein and the Newtonian Legacy," [from Newton and New Direction in Science (Specola Vaticana, Italy, 1988)] Process Studies, 23, 285-8, Fall/Winter, 1994.
Meh...
CD requires precisely timed, probably computer controlled explosives. "Triggered by heat of planes..." Don't think so. This is more garbage science and highly speculative. This borders on disinfo.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Thanks.
Thanks for the comment.
This has already been rated down...
Could the person or persons who rated this down please comment on why this is a bad suggestion? I'm not looking to argue about it since, like I said, I don't know much about this Prof. Grabbe. Is there something you know that others should also know about him?
Thanks.
he was recently on Fetzer's GCN radio show
where Jim spent an hour or so trying to co-opt him to the dews/no-planes arena.
He's not that well spoken imho.
I think Kevin Ryan would be best, but thats just my opinion.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
Thank you!
This information was what I was looking for. I only have a short clip of him discussing his concerns (linked in my original post) and, though he wasn't the best speaker, flags didn't go up when I heard him either.
Thanks for your opinion. I no longer think Prof. Grabbe's a very good suggestion. Sorry gang.
no problem but also
let me say that just because he was on fetzer's show that doesnt mean anything really, I should have also mentioned, beside him not being a great speaker, he also has stated that he has not been researching 9/11 over the past few years, just early on he put forth some opinions. During Fetzer's show, regardless of the bs fetzer was trying to jam down his neck, he tended to remain in favor of CD over all else - at least we know he's smart.
anyway, just a few reasons I think hes not the best candidate, but again just mho.
Here's a good one by Kevin Ryan: A NEW STANDARD FOR DECEPTION
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=718236659434732032
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
Explosives
Boom!
These explosives were not triggered by the fire. There very well may have been inscendiaries placed in the areas of impact but that would have merely been for visual impact. To make the fires appear larger than they were.
The main part of the demolition would have been set for the structure below. From what I have researched and heard in testimony...... the core was being compromised on several levels so to pull the structure in on itself. There were several explosions on multiple floors which had collapsed the core of the structure.
When it began to fall then they could blow it under cover of the falling debris. Noise of explosions were drown out. Dust laid cover for the visible explosions. One signal could have trigered the explosions. Remote detonators with delays. No wiring needed.
One signal would trigger explosion just below impact and the others would follow on built in delay. Bringing it right down into it's own footprint.
Core columns were compromised on three sides using thermite then the final side was popped with explosives. The people who do these things are experts. They would have been much better off if they were not so damn good and the buildings toppled like they should have in a collpase.
If they had allowed a more natural collapse then the whole city may have burned. If one of those towers had fallen into the surrounding city there would not have been enough firemen to contain the devistation.
We know that they wanted to take that building down. We know that they needed this type of event to occur to forward their agenda. We see how they used this event to do just that. We know that this could not of happened without their help. We have evidence that they did just that.
We know we've been lied to on a regular basis.
We caught them. We know!
___________________
Together in Truth!
Remote detonators... DUH!!
Thanks JJJames. I was trying to figure out how they would have demolished the floors above the plane impact, as the destruction would have likely taken out any wiring. I hate when I miss something that obvious!! LOL!!
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Actually
Remote detonators were most likely used throughout the building. Much easier and more concealing to plant and set. You would simply have to set the proper delays. Wouldn't need near as much demo to set..... and you would eliminate all wiring needed. This would also cut the set-up time dramatically.
I believe that the upper portion of the structure was mostly affected by the thermite charges. Explosives would not be needed. The fires would only trigger the thermite. They just waited for the thermite to take affect and fall into the compromised core. When the collapse initiated and the building began to fall..... they pulled the trigger.
The demolition of these stuctures was almost perfect..... but they couldn't afford the risk to do it legit. It didn't fit their bottom line but it did suit their agenda.
$$
___________________
Together in Truth!
Liz
I agree. Liz says that physicists say that fire could have melted the steel that brought #7 down so let the physicists debate that. Glad Rosie added that pesky little problem of the free fall speed of the collapses.....
in fairness she did
correct herself, and say "weakened".
That, by the way is one of the bigger problems with 9/11 Truth, everyone runs around yelling about "melted steel" but then the OCT'ers and Debunkers point out that no official version says anything about melted steel. Novice truthers at that point begin to look silly, unless of course they quickly make the point that "molten metal" was present and is visible pouring out of the south tower just prior to its collapse.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
We SHOULD be yelling molten steel!
Because there WAS molten steel, and only incendiaries could cause that.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Forensic Evidence
What we are talking about is forensic evidence, and in my opinion no-one has done a better job of studying the case than Steven Jones.
www.freewebs.com/springfield911truth
www.myspace.com/culturalrelativity
A "Physics Edition" of The View
would have to feature actual physicists or mechanical engineers
proper credibility. While DRG and Tarpley are great advocates
for 9/11 truth, they wouldn't be the best bets for this particular
format.
Professor Jones would be fine if he's accompanied by another
person who's more forceful. His manner is very reassuring and
could play well to the millions of housewives. Dr. Greg Jenkins
is a well-respected physicist. Dr. Jeff King would be a good choice, along with Kevin Ryan.
Bottom line: ONLY CD can explain the 100% pulverized concrete
at the WTC that day. (Concrete does not break into fine dust, and
here we see actual clouds of pulverized concrete in mid-air!)
ONLY CD can account for the pools of molten steel in the sub-
basement levels.
ONLY CD can account for the speed of the 3 collapses without
breaking the laws of physics. (conservation of momentum, etc.)
Since Rosie only has the rest of the month, we need to get this going! At least all the hosts were hip to the idea.
A profound debate of physics, metallurgy, chemistry, etc.,
is NOT what's needed on The View. This is likely what the Popular Mechanics shills want to do! Don't fall for a trap like that!
Keep it simple. Certainly show some videos of WTC-7 imploding, Silverstein saying, "pull-it, & also show clear video of the towers erupting & exploding. Surely point out how hostile airliners flew all over the eastern U.S. without any response from NORAD & our military!!!
If time permits, show that a Boeing with a 125' wingspan can not fit through a 16' initial impact hole at the Pentagaon, explain false-flag attacks, & PNAC stating that a New Pearl Harbor was needed to invade Iraq.
alex
They would never put Alex on the view. He would scare women too much at first. I don't think they will put alex on anywhere. Fox news is even afraid to have him on. Maybe they're afraid he could still be heard when they turn the volume down :)
MOLTEN METAL
ROSIE:
ASK ELIZABETH HASSLEBACK IF 270 DEGREE TEMPERATURES CREATE MOLTEN METAL DEPOSITS LIKE THIS ONE AT THE WTC.
http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=q6ti5.jpg
That blonde is fishy
That "Elisabeth" chick is ignorant, but she is also dangerous. She said right towards the end how ther should be someone from Pop. Mecanics in the show to debath with another expert. Excuse me, "expert". The only thing these people are experts at in my opinion is manipulating the facts. That debate will never happen. I am impressed with how informed Rosie seems to be and how she comes across while giving information. Either the blonde bimbo is paid for, or she is just as stupid as she sounds. Thanks for the post, really appreciate the updates!
Dave
Phuckinehring
Liz is not stupid
I have a hard time believing Liz is stupid. You have to be real smart to get in Television. She knows its an inside job, She is one of them 97% Positive!!
She supports her government murdering her countrymen. 97% positive thats the case.
Liz Wants To Continue Her Privileged Lifestyle
Debunking 9/11 might bring an end to the middle east resource wars (allegedly the war on terror) that are claiming thousands of U.S. soldiers lives and allowing her to fuel what is likely a small fleet of gas guzzling luxury cars, SUV's and RV's in her possibly several mile long driveway that leads to her McMansion way atop some giant hill.
Debunking 9/11 might really jeopadize her lifestyle.
P.S.: Where can I find the You Tube address for that vid?
Dude....
That girl is a "dog in a purse" away from being a Paris Hilton.
She desperately needs a catch phrase..... how bout "No waaaay."
___________________
Together in Truth!
Either she's incredibly stupid or you're correct
Perhaps she is a professional agent of the elite. I'm willing to believe that. Perhaps after the revolution, we'll find out who was really just plain stupid and who was employed by an agency of the government.... After the Russian revolution the Czar's secret police records blew everyone's minds as people learned how many people were on the take, well-placed agents in various key positions...
Yes...But...
"perhaps after the revolution, we'll find out who was really just plain stupid and who was employed by an agency of the government...."
Yes But after the revolution, all the people who said oh Popular Mechanics, etc etc..who are really covering for the neo-cons are all going to play stupid, and act like they had no idea the entire time.
You watch.
Michelle Malkin, O reilly, Hannity, Liz, Joe Scumbag, Glenn Beck, etc etc will all say I HAD NO IDEA, I REALLY DIDNT KNOW, I REALLY THOUGHT IT WAS AL QUIDA.
They will be lying again, and fools will buy the lie again.
i think hannity is a true believer
I think Hannity is so stupid that he believes the government story. He is the ultimate useful idiot.
I can't believe Bill Maher still believes the government story. If we can convert him it would be huge
NO WAY....
Hannity is a paid shill....plain and simple.
"Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th;
malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists, themselves, away from the guilty."
-George W. Bush November 11, 2001
...
Bill Maher is firmly pro-Israel. He most likely knows the truth of 9/11, he is a very bright guy, but I doubt he could ever publicly admit it for fear of angering the Israelis.
She's already put out the "Oil equals Power" justification....
.....on a prior episode and discussion of 9/11. Also, something about how we "can't allow Muslim extremists to control it....", or US entitlement BS to that effect....she's totally bought into the unspoken "we have to kill the brown people and take their oil, because 'the American way-of-life is not negotiable' (to paraphrase the Dick)" mentality, with which so many sheeple rationalize the 9/11 wars.
yep, and she was dead serious
and she was referring to Iraqis in Iraq, and Iranians in Iran and not letting "them" have the oil, as if all of "them" are terr-ists.
My jaw dropped at it. She actually believes the stuff that comes out of her mouth.
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
drg
DRG would be the best, but theyll attack him and say hes not a specialist, so maybe him and stephen jones. Stepehn jones has a couple of phd physics professors
greg jenkins, then theres the guy crockett grabby...................jones and drg are the best.............................................drg is like a very good lawyer, and then jones has the expertise, it would be a big mistake to let someone w/o an advanced degree on the view like alex jones or kevin ryan, the debunkers will repeatedly bring that up.
Liz is a shill
what do we need to know about Elisabeth? Well, she was on the TV show Survivor..... she married an NFL quarterback..... AND.......... oh yeah, she was an invited guest to the recent White House white tie dinner hosted by the government for the Queen herself!!! Forgive me ladies but the only reason she is on "The View" is for her looks and as another brain dead puppet for the current administration.
Good call
She is simply a mouthpiece. The more you look at who she associates herself with, the more you can pick apart her retarded comments. It's obvious that she is spouting this shit for the benefit of some very selfish causes.
Dave
Phuckinehring
Real Expert
Get a Real Expert Physist, Not some Owner of some Magizine.
I cant believe the amount of stupid people who actually take PM seriously.
Jeepers Creeprs Batman!
Wow! Just WoW! now we all have to make sure that rosie gets JIM HOFFMAN ON THERE not STEVEN JONES! STEVEN is a great researcher but not so great interviewer/debater! GET KEVIN RYAN AND JIM HOFFMAN ON THERE!!!!
47 stories + 6.6 collapse = impossible
Elizabeth the DOLT!
Elizabeth thinks steel 'weakens' at 270 degrees?!! LOL. She's never heard of a wood stove? What an idiot. She's a sad example of how the corporate media can rot the human brain and turn it to mush.
EXACTLY! same thing i was
EXACTLY! same thing i was thinking.. I would of said: if FIRE so called can weaken still what is the point of having a GRILL? a wood stove? when the last time you put fire on your grill and watch it buckle or weaken?
Oven...stove???
You don't think this chick actually cooks her own meals do you? In all fairness, she did say she would have to check on that temperature. I guess she'll ask her illegal immigrant maid to cut the oven all the way up to 300 degrees to see if it collapses.
_______________________
"Cogito ergo sum"
270 degress????
That comment made the 911 skeptics popular mechanics deniers look like morons.
That helped us more, come to think about it
"Volcanic energy"?
Rosie's smart. She just left Elizabeth hanging out there looking like the dumbell she is.
I agree.
Rosie's probably thinking the same thing I am about Elizabeth. How can someone so hot be so dumb?
Intel. over "hottness"
Intel. over "hottness"
"hot" people are no longer "hot" to me once I see their true colors are not so bright
Come on, she is the perfect
Come on, she is the perfect foil. The cute blond wife of a Super Bowl quarterback with a wind tunnel through her ears, she's perfect for us. "Volcanic forces", "lets get two people from each side", asking if Gouliani was part of the cover-up, this girl is perfect. I don't care if the price of darkness himself were whispering in her ear, she hasn't been able to understand fast enough to keep up in the conversation. Rosie comes across as being magnanimous and well researched. I'll also add that I don't think Hassleback knows what she is doing. She doesn't seem evil and one would have to be to consciously do what she's doing. When all is said and done I'll thank her for her part in getting the truth out.
If we could have two people on there, I'd choose two of: Steven Jones, Kevin Ryan or David Ray Griffin. As long as its not Hufschmidt (sp?) or Fetzer I'm happy. Hoffman would be OK. Mike Berger would work too. The dream team, to me, is Steven Jones and DRG. Jones runs the offense, DRG runs the defense. This is something even Mrs. Hassleback can understand.
"The cute blonde wife of a
"The cute blonde wife of a Super Bowl quarterback"
Although it doesn't matter.... she is not the wife of a Super Bowl Quarterback. She is the wife of a now out of the league EX - Third String Washington Redskins Quarterback. (The other guys brother) I would hate to give someone like her more credit than she deserves.
Shows how much I know. ;-)
Shows how much I know. ;-)
Rosie, Air the Johnny Wave photo!!
See what Elizabeth Hasselhoff has to say about that!!
My vote for the debate would be DRG and Jim Hoffman. Kevin Ryan and Steven Jones would be good choices too. How about Richard Gage or one of the engineers he has on board???
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Intelligence
I wonder what the Chinese and Russian intelligence agencies think of the American television programs they monitor. This one has got to have them laughing their asses off.
I'm surprised no one pointed out
to Dr. Hassleback, when she said "the volcanic forces of the towers collapsing could be enough to bring down 7", makes no sense because the building (7) stood for some seven odd hours longer... Was it a very slow collapse? The same retarded argument put forth by the douche-bags at SLC, "fires and damage from an x amount of tonnage aircraft".... right but the buildings stood after all this immense damage, and the fires were subsiding, then they fall. But then theres the speed of all three collapses... which not explainable by jets, damage, fires, or anything else.
its to the point of the ridiculous already.
bring on the physicists...
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
.
.
Pyroclastic flow
Maybe the "volcanic forces" comment was actually a slip that betrays the Nazi blonde's penchant for truth.
The collapses on 9/11 do share something with volcanoes: pyroclastic flow.
Please encourage Rosie
to get RIchard Gage on, to debate for our side. Steven Jones is too sheepish and he gets really nervous and kinda stutters.
____________________________
On the 11th day, of every month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nRs8cu5Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftruthaction...
Sure.
So Fetzer can go on and on about his Darth Vader "directed energy weapons" and how Steven E. Jones thinks Jesus is alive and well and living in Brooklyn? FETZER IS A DISINFO SHILL. I don't know if he was from the beginning, or if the spooks threatened his family or something, but now he's obviously not fighting for truth.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
lol
and dont forget, according to Fetzer, Jones is responsible for killing Cold Fusion. I guess between Jones and KSM we have the answers to nearly everything, ever...
ever.
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
by the way thats a misnomer
Kevin Barrett and Jim Fetzer do not appear together at all on the dynamic duo show, Fetzer does tues, wed, thurs, and the boy wonder does mondays and fridays. While Barrett maintains Fetzer as a "friend" I have not heard him subscribe to any of Fetzer's disinfo whatsoever. I have great respect for Kevin Barrett, but your post is a bit misleading when you say to listen to "them" daily, which is not the case.
no harm, no foul, just pointing out the facts.
If we aree discussing who'd be the best scientist/physicist etc to be on a show/debate, I have to question why you'd mention fetzer or barret - neither of them are scientists or physicists. Fetzer's degree is in Philosophy of Science, and Barrett deals with Theology and Religion (I forget his actual degree)
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
I agree regarding the
I agree regarding the conflation of Fetz with Barrett. Barrett ain't like the Fetz.
I don't agree with respect to the philosophy of science. Just that the Fetz ain't a good representative. I attended KSU's M.A. program in phil with a focus. in phil of sci and phil of logic before going on into neuroscience and neuropsychology. It is a very appropriate discipline from which to argue scientific issues. But in this instance, you want to have an architect, structural engineer and physicist. I would add in Kevin Ryan and Jim Hoffmann because they argue very well and know their stuff. But they would lose credence with the public (who don't usually know about the 'reference to authority' fallacy in argumentation) if they went up against Ph.D. physicists etc. for the dark side.
==================================================================
"There are none so hoplessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." (Goethe)
Gage/Hoffman
I think Jim Hoffman is the sharpest intellect I've seen so far. He seems like he could really think on his toes and react well. Gage is a damn good suggestion too.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Except Hoffman isn't a physisist
Therefore Gage and a Physisist who understands the reality, would be the very best choice. Let Gage himself find the physisist, would be my suggestion.
Rosie? Are you listening?
If you are, you should be aware that 9.2 seconds is free fall in a complete vacuum, and that with air resistence factored in, it's between 10 and 12 seconds for a total free fall time, and the buildings went down in 12-14 seconds in actuality, though the 9/11 Commission pegs the south tower at 10 seconds and the NIST FAQ, something like 11 and 9 seconds for the south and north towers respectively, though NIST never even ONCE in its 10,000 page report made mention of the fall time.
When Steven Jones was debating this with Leslie Robertson, at the mention of the fall time, Robertson went off on a tangent about how could they have placed the explosives.
It's one of if not THE strongest possible arguments regarding 9/11, that and how the heck flight 77 was allowed to enter Pentagon airspace.. without a single shot being fired.
____________________________
On the 11th day, of every month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nRs8cu5Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftruthaction...
Richard Gage and as yet unnamed Physicist
Should be the ones to represent our side. Gage should be given the opportunity to find that Physisist in academia, and it should NOT be Steven Jones.
That's my two cents.
____________________________
On the 11th day, of every month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nRs8cu5Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftruthaction...
Not a physicist?
Why is he on video talking about how he did thermodynamic equations for the dust clouds??? Maybe I didn't check his actual credentials, but after hearing him argue his points about the collapses, I was confident with his understanding of the event. What is his field of expertise? I read a bit of his thermodynamics paper... He's plenty qualified to talk about the issue.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
He's a computer scientist.
____________________________
On the 11th day, of every month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nRs8cu5Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftruthaction...
Oh yeah...
I do remember hearing that actually.
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Doesn't Hoffman claim that AA-77 did indeed slam into the
Pentagon??? That is total nonsense!!!
Non sure...
He does claim that there is stronger evidence to suggest plane at Penta, rather than no plane. I think the evidence is probably inconclusive thusfar. We should focus on demanding the release of the other tapes (if they haven't been destroyed) and the impossibility of anything penetrating Pentagon airspace on any old day, let alone after what happened in New York. The fact that the Pentagon was hit at all pretty much proves a stand-down all by itself. I haven't seen enough to convince me as to what did or did not hit... Could have been mokie-troll plane, could have been missle...
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
Elizabeth Hasslebeck...
Obviously was curious as to what Rosie was saying, went to research the "debunkings" so she could feel safe and secure in her ignorance, and came across Popular Mechanics (or was told about them), and clung to them as if her sanity depended on it. Let's remember that within the last 2-3 months, Elizabeth was questioned about whether or not Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attacks, and she was still "struggling" with that. She is not the brightest bulb in the box.
It's Not The Crime That Kills You, But The Cover-Up
Yep
but the 270 degree melting point remark was bizarre.
Rosie the Great
Great job Rosie. This is going to cause O'Reilly's demon head to explode.
"This is going to cause O'Reilly's demon head to explode."
:-D
____________________________
On the 11th day, of every month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nRs8cu5Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftruthaction...
Or more likely, a stroke.
Or more likely, a stroke. Did you see his row with Geraldo? The cortisol (stress hormone) was practically seeping through his poors. I don't know how a person with his anger level at his age can avoid gettiing seriously ill, but maybe it's just the luck 'o the Irish.
"They took it from the top to the bottom, we're gonna take them from the bottom to the top." - Dan Wallace
The great thing about this...
Is it will force the attack dogs to speak on the issue more. Keep it up Rosie. NOW WOULD BE A GREAT TIME FOR OTHER CELEBS TO START SPEAKING UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We want a chain reaction!
------------------
"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." - Buddha
"What you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." - Gandhi
"The Sun never shined on a cause of greater worth." - Thomas Paine
"We want a chain reaction!"
yes just like a progressive runaway collapse of a skyscraper, only this time it will be FOR REAL and it will be the "official story" that is the "skyscraper".
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Physics/Science/Mathematics do not lie, only people do.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB
You bet
"WOULD BE A GREAT TIME FOR OTHER CELEBS TO START SPEAKING UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We want a chain reaction!"
It sure would. I hope they're not planning to leave Rosie, Charlie and the few others who have spoken up to go it alone. Where's Jack Nicholson and Warren Beatty? It's time to stand up.
Don't be so quick to call witnesses paid liars!!!!!!
Okay, I respect that you have your own theory about the planes/ no-planes blah blah and you are not alone in that theory. HOWEVER, I hate that you claim as fact that people who saw first hand the planes hit are paid! TOTAL B.S.! My best friend saw the 2nd plane hit live so shut the fuc* up when it comes to making THAT claim would you! Thanks. BTW, I don't get into in-fighting so this is it for me.
My friend lives across the
My friend lives across the river in New Jersey. The entire back side of his house faces Manhattan---beautiful view! The whole backside is nothing but windows from floor to ceiling across the back of the house--gorgeous. Anyway, on the morning of 9/11/01 his partner went into the city to work and he stayed in bed. His mom called him and woke him up. He was at the back of the house looking out over the skyline while talking to his mom. He sees the smoke from the first building hit and sees as it occurs the second plane fly in. HE SEES it with his OWN EYES! He stays on the phone with his mom in horror with all of this and then panics trying to figure out if his partner is safe since he is in the city--realizing it was more than an accidental plane crash. Anyway, that is what happened. I called all day long on 9/11 trying to reach him to see if he was okay--knowing he lives and works there ( Il ive in Indiana), anyway finally late the next night I got a connection --phones were freakin crazy that day going in and out--his partner asked me not to ask him too much about it because he was really shaken up about the whole thing--what he saw. So, after getting the basic details from him that night, I have not brought it up since. I know he doesn't like to even think about it. Anyway, don't doubt it man, it happened, people with their own naked eyes saw them hit --by planes(or at the very least, something that looked like planes). We have enough info to bring down the bastards who did this without bringing in "no-plane" stuff to debate. I DO respect your research into that area though---that is just my opinion. You continue to do what you feel is right, I just don't want people slandering real life witnesses. Peace & respect to all people seeking the truth!
P.S. it is sad to look at the skyline from his backyard now versus before 911. I'm glad I got to see the towers before they fell--were blown up rather!
Went to his site and read this:
"Other people behind me on land had a wider view and said they saw the second plane approach from far away, figuring it was a rescue plane of some kind." Dave
I doubt it.
Who paid you!?!
You
are the "embarassing fake"... have a nice day!
does your brother agree
with your no-plane theory?
I'm glad alex jones doesn't.
rosie and elizabeth
keep in mind elizabeth fills in on FOX in the morning.she has been embraced as one of them -the new generation.as someone who came to 9/11 truth from rosie saying google WTC7 i beg you to think about this.we all know what liz said was FOX bullshit.we know the argument will be the PM talking points.what ROSIE needs is the best person to COUNTER THAT ARGUMENT.the PM debunked facts.get it?rosie did okay today because we all knew what she was talking about.imagine if you were lost on the points.WHAT?look at her response to the 1st responders health issues.she may as well be ann coulter.she backs the GOP based on abortion.period.elizabeth and FOX spew the PM crap.WHO IS THE BEST PERSON TO ARGUE AGAINST THE PM CRAP?and stick to the facts of the buildings.PERIOD.the goal is to get the points across and get people to understand in a few minutes.to debunk the PM crap .with conviction and authority.
Thank you Rosie!!!
For turning up the heat! EH shows why there are blonde jokes.
I only hope Rosie is going to go for the throat with these last few episodes.
Did you here EH say popular mechanics? Almost too funny.
Let's do the whole show on this Rosie. I suggest three for 9/11 truth....Three for 9/11 non truth.
#1 Dr. Steven Jones #2 Dr. Ray Griffin #3 Kevin Ryan.
Would love to have a suprize visit from Sibel Edmonds. I highly doubt any debate would take place.They can't do it. They know it.
So Rosie keep telling people to look and decide for themselves. Anyone with an IQ over 20 can see the official version is
a 110 story pile of bullshit.
WTG Ro!
Awesome video! Rosie is right what she said about people not wanting to talk about it. I encounter that a lot. I keep talking tho. We all have too! Only death will silence me.
Way to go RO!!
- nick9/11
I vote for David Ray Griffin!
I vote for DRG and Steven
I vote for DRG and Steven Jones. They are both very intelligent men, DRG is a very eloquent speaker and Steven Jones is a certified phycisist who can back up any of DRG's claims if his credibility as a professor of religion is questioned.
From Rosie's blog "the show has been booked "
This just in from Rosie's blog...
evie writes:
Dear Ro, I would love to see a show with experts on both sides to discuss WTC7.Silly to always talk about it but never realy pursue the truth once and for all, don’t you think? Please?
the show has been booked
http://westchester911truth.org
"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right." Thomas Paine
Funny...
how BabaWawa always seems to be "absent" during these 9/11 debates.
_______________________
"Cogito ergo sum"
Gotta love Elizabeth
her intelligence is volcanic.What an asset to the truth movement!
Humm? Maybe she ment that some plastic's weaken at 270 degree's.
Damn i sure had a good laugh.
Yea
I was baking a cake and my oven melted. Damn cookbook said 400 degrees for 30 mins..ha!
my gut reaction to the Rosie vid.
1. This is a very dangerous time for another 911 type false flag attack.
2. SHUT that blonde blankety blank know-it-all loud motor mouth pseudoscience ignorant traitor bit_h UP.
She talks like she invented e=mc**2.
Ignorant know it all lady, how could building 7 collapse symmetrically at free fall speed into its own footprint. This would require all supports of WTC 7 to break at exactly the same time (the inner supports a fraction of second before the outer ones) everywhere in the building. This is what controlled demolitions are. When was the last time anyone saw a controlled demolition company lighting a building on fire to bring it down at free fall speed into its own footprint. All the controlled demolition companies use well placed and well timed explosives.
If steel could be weakened by fire's at the temperature of building fires (which it can not) then parts of the building might collapse but not the whole building; and the building would fall asymetrically onto the adjacent buildings; and majors parts of the building would still be standing.
My reaction to the blonde hag:
Excuse me while I go throw up.
Its only the following things at stake:
a few billions lives,
our constitution,
our wealth,
the sovereignty of the US,
our jobs,
our existence as a country,
our republic way of life,
our futures,
our kids futures,
the future of all humanity,
our very lives.
I don't think this blonde lady has a clue about how damaging she is.
She is a mouthpiece of the Matrix.
Is she one of the Mockingbird crowd ?
Is there a chart?
I apologize if this is a rookie type request, but many who talk about temperatures regarding the steel at the WTC on 9/11 have no clue what they are talking about (including myself). Also, celsius, farenheit and centigrade need to be distinguished.
Can someone post a link to a chart which shows the temperatures at which steel weakens, melts, etc.,- but also list these temperatures in celsius, farenheit and centigrade.
When hasselbeck talks out of her @$$ that steel weakens at 270 degrees, is she talking about farenheit, celsius, or centigrade? (not that it would matter)
Anyhow, this is basic info that EVERYone should be on the same page with.
Again, I apologize for not having this info or not knowing.
.
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They can't explain the Mineta Testimony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y
Davin Coburn of Popular Mechanics takes beating from Charles Goyette:
http://media.putfile.com/Davin-Coburn-of-Popular-Mechanics-on-Charles-Go...
Rosie's blog tonite:
JR writes:
Hi Rosie,
Can you please get Prof. Steven E. Jones and Prof. David Ray Griffin to come on and expose the pack of professional liars over at popular mechanics regarding 9/11? Thanks,
JR
Ans:
ok
And
rick writes:
Please for the love of gawd will you have a segment or a whole show talking about WTC7 and 911. These issues have divided our country and its high time for truth, healing, and peace! Please Please TY!
wouldnt that be fascinating
nathalie writes:
Hi Ro,
Please see Dr. Judy Wood’s 9/11 page at http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/
Very informative, and should be on the upcoming show.
Can’t believe you got them to do it!! WooHoo! So Love you!!
Nat
judy wood rocks
This should help you...
role of fires
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/fires/index.html
fire severity
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/fires/severity.html
effects on steel
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/fires/steel.html
_______________
"If I had just paid $20 million for the NIST report, I'd be asking for a refund!" -Dr. Frank Greening
Whatever you do, don't bother with the comments on Youtube
For the love of GOD or goodness eternal....PLEASE don't bother with the Youtube comments on this video. Holy crap that thing is a friggin cluster f**k.
There's a couple of guys on there, govspysonallchats and Barbel1th that are totally rabid 'agent' labelers. Labeling EVERYONE an agent who disagrees with their ridiculous tactics. I haven't seen people more befitting of the term 'nutjob'. Saying I'm an agent for saying what their doing is just making a bad name for 9/11 truth by havng the temerity to suggest that there's SOME in 9/11 truth that are idiots..and they are being used to fill the balloons of hot air for O'reilly, Malkin, etc when they whine about 'nuts'.
Pots calling the kettle black when their horrible points are exactly the same kind they reference as 'agentlike' yet fail to see how there's nothing stopping me from calling them agents.
I can't believe I was dumb enough to continue posting. It seems to only drill their idiotic assumptions deeper.
Almost a mirror image of what they're ostensibly against.