You are referring to a small subset of of Israeli Zionists as if Israel is not a Zionist state and as if there is not a substantial Zionist presence in this country, including individuals with dual Israeli-US citizenship who are or have been in high-level policy making positions OR have been influential in other ways, such as prominence in business and owners/ leaseholders of property directly involved in 9/11. Do you feel as though disingenuous arguments of this sort are effective persuasion?

I would like to address ‘Student’ here, as well as the other good folks at this site, and just say that when I use the term ‘Zionist’ in my posts here or in other writings I am using it in its historical, academic sense, not as some KKK white supremacist might use it, which brings up the important issues of terms and terminology. If I say ‘Indian’ and you think that I am referring to a member of the Cherokee Nation, then the communication lines between us in our conversation about ‘Indians’ and classical ragas is going to be very confused and unproductive. There is an extreme difference between a Zionist in the proper historical usage of the term and a Jew, being defined as one who bases his conduct and life around the moral codes of the Torah and the large body of classical Rabbinical writings. Zionism, whose two principal founding fathers, Theodore Herzl and Chaim Weissman, were both confirmed atheists, began as a socio-political ideology in the 1890s as a response to the Russian Czarist pogroms of the 1870s and the Dreyfuss trials. The Rabbis of the time saw Zionism as a black heresy and you may see the Torah-based arguments for this put forward again by their theological descendents like the Naturei Karta Rabbis who burn Israeli flags in front of the U.N. in New York and in other cities like Montreal and London. In fact, I will give you here three websites, run by orthodox Jews, not Nazi KKK people, and you can let the Jewish Rabbis, themselves, explain to you in their articles the radical differences between Zionism and Judaism.

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org

http://www.nkusa.org

http://www.israelversusjudaism.org

Also regarding the problems with terms and shadings of terminology, the conflation of Zionism with Judaism is a very useful propaganda device on several levels. On one level, anytime anyone brings up the long history of war crimes committed by the government of Israel, they will immediately trot out the old “you’re anti-Semitic” dog and pony show in order to shut down any conversation about historical reality. Another highly misused term is ‘Semitic’, which refers to many ancient Near Eastern peoples and their languages. The Amorites, Akkadians, Aramaeans, Arabs and Hebrews are all Semitic peoples and all their languages are classified as Semitic languages, so if you hate Arabs, you are an anti-Semite. This is why I previously said that there are no greater anti-Semites than those who adhere to the socio-political philosophy of Zionism. I mentioned in a previous post that Zionism has a very nasty racist ingredient in it that is akin to Nazism. So as not to confuse anybody, I am not equating Jews with Nazis. Are we clear on this? I am not insane. I am only informing you of this so that these very real historical elements in the political ideology of Zionism can be seen without the usual sugar coating of false history and deception. Over the period of a century now, various pieces of Zionist literature have openly written of Arabs as an inferior race of dogs. Some of these horrifically ugly quotes, unfortunately, have shown up in the autobiographies of several Israeli prime ministers. I will not post these horrible and embarrassing quotes here, and I will simply refer you to the sampling found in the ‘Jews for Justice in the Middle East’ publication out of Berkeley, CA -- “The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict.” The racial philosophy of Zionism discussed in their writings developed into this weird mixture of Hitlerian, bogus 1930s German biology ‘master race’ stuff and the “God’s chosen people” concept taken to insane extremes. The people who accept this socio-political/racial ideology of Zionism are Not Jews, as has been explained, in great detail, not by myself, but by orthodox Rabbis going back to Maimonides. Just because your last name is Weinberg does not make you Jewish. To be Jewish means to accept a moral covenant with God. To see this difference between being Jewish and being a Zionist is also clearly illustrated below in the history of how LEHI, the Zionist military wing of Irgun, in 1941 offered its military services to The NAZIS! I am serious, I did not make this up.

My comments here and in my previous posts, with regards to Zionism and the question of Israel, are based upon a history that most people are wholly unaware of (and for good reason), a history nonetheless that is real and one that real historians, including Jewish ones such as Dr. Norman Finkelstein, are quite aware of. I do not make my comments lightly or frivolously, and I do not make them inspired by some kind of neo-Nazi nutcase hate agenda either. Also, at the outset, I would like to repeat that all of my many Jewish friends have always been Jewish, and none of them are Zionists. I would never hang out with someone like Paul Wolfowitz or heroin/weapons dealers like Richard Pearle, and neither would any of my friends.

Just as when you began researching and finding out about the hidden, yet real history surrounding 9/11, and you thought to yourself that you now know way too much, and that where the evidence is leading is somewhere you really might not want to go, so it is also quite like that with the study of what has gone on in the land of Palestine for about 100 years now. I did not want to find these things out, but when you study history, you often come across many horrible things that you wish you had not uncovered. For a frank, honest, and academically well-researched look at the history of Palestine for the last century, I highly recommend the following books:

1) “Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict”
by Dr. Norman G. Finkelstein

2) “Beyond Chutzpah: On the Misuse of Anti-Semitism and the Abuse of History”
by Dr. Norman G. Finkelstein

3) “Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict: A History with Documents”
by Dr. Charles D. Smith -- This text is used at the university level in California and Arizona for courses in the history of the modern Middle East, including graduate level history courses at Stanford.

4) “The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict”
published by ‘Jews for Justice in the Middle East’ (Berkeley, CA) – This text is also used at the university level in California and Arizona for courses in the history of the modern Middle East.

5) “51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration With the Nazis”
by Lenni Brenner -- This volume is sold by Naturei Karta and gives the actual documentary history concerning the strange working relationships that various Zionist groups in Europe had with the Nazis. http://www.nkusa.org (Naturei Karta, USA)

Before we let Mahatma Gandhi, Albert Einstein, and Martin Buber weigh in on the situation, I want to be very clear, Zionism is a socio-political-militarist, racist philosophy, officially founded in 1897 in Basle, Switzerland by secular atheists. This ideology merely uses the religious cover of Judaism to both advance its secular real estate and resource control agendas, and at the same time to cover up the military and human rights crimes committed in the advancement of that agenda. It is the same religious con-game that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al. play, the “we’re all tight with Jesus” game. Thus, in reality, there were no Christians, Jews, or Muslims involved with the 9/11 operations, there were, however, many who dressed up in the garb of those faiths, and this is why we must be precise in the usage of terms and definitions. We must learn to separate the sheep from the wolf in the sheep’s clothing. Calling the wolf a wolf does not mean I am anti-sheep, no matter what the wolf told you my motive was.

One of the main criticisms that orthodox Rabbis have with the Zionist state is that the Jewish return from exile to the Holy Land was to be brought about through peace by the Messiah or Meshiah, but the secular Zionists decided to bring it about forcefully, using violence, terror, and deceit. Because of this, ‘Israel’ is cursed, and thus the Rabbis have said that there will never be peace there until there is real human justice. Along these lines, I found this quote by Mahatma Gandhi on the Palestinian situation:

“Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French...What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct...If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb.” – Mahatma Gandhi (quoted in “A Land of Two Peoples” edited by Mendes-Flohr)

Jewish Criticism of Zionism (these are only two of many, many quotes like this):

Albert Einstein – “I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish State. Apart from practical considerations, my awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish State, with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain.”

Martin Buber (renowned, modern Jewish philosopher and writer) – “Only an internal revolution can have the power to heal our people of their murderous sickness of causeless hatred...It is bound to bring complete ruin upon us. Only then will the old and young in our land realize how great was our responsibility to those miserable Arab refugees in whose towns we have settled Jews who were brought here from afar; whose homes we have inherited, whose fields we now sow and harvest; the fruits of whose gardens, orchards and vineyards we gather; and in whose cities that we robbed, we put up houses of education, charity, and prayer, while we babble and rave about being the “People of the Book” and the “light of the nations.””

Both of these statements are quoted in Sami Hadawi’s “Bitter Harvest” and “The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict” published by ‘Jews for Justice in the Middle East’, (Berkeley, CA)

When I mentioned in my post that the ideology of Zionism also has a genocidal element in it, I wasn’t trying to spread hate speech or something. This is something you will clearly and unfortunately see if you study the history of this, and I was in fact actually referring to a comment made by Dr. Norman Finkelstein where he compared the century- long persecution of the Palestinian people to a long, slow genocide. I will not, in good taste, narrate for you here the absolute horrors of General Ariel Sharon’s Shaba and Shatila Refugee Camp Massacres in Lebanon in 1982, but to illustrate for you that I am not making all of this up, I will give you a single sample of another part of this history from the pen of an Israeli author describing what has become known as the ‘Deir Yassin Massacre of 1948’, and don’t turn your eyes away. I want you to read this.

“For the entire day of April 9, 1948 Irgun and LEHI soldiers (two Israeli guerilla groups) carried out the slaughter in a cold and premeditated fashion...The attackers lined men, women and children up against the walls and shot them...The ruthlessness of the attack on Deir Yassin shocked Jewish and world opinion alike, drove fear and panic into the Arab population, and led to the flight of unarmed civilians from their homes all over the country.” -- Israeli author, Simha Flapan, “The Birth of Israel”

If the Zionists were actually Jews, why would they offer their military help to the Nazis to fight against the British? Read on -- When it appeared that Britain, the power behind the Zionist movement since the early 1900s, appeared to be losing to Germany at the beginning of WWII, Future Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Shamir actually proposed an alliance with the Nazis! As Allan Brownfield wrote in “The Washington Report on Middle Eastern Affairs” (July/August 1998), “As late as 1941, the Zionist guerilla group LEHI, one of whose leaders, Yitzhak Shamir, was later to become a prime minister of Israel, approached the Nazis, using the name of its parent organization, the Irgun (NMO). Their proposal stated – ‘The establishment of the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis and bound by a treaty with the German Reich would be in the interests of strengthening the future German position of power in the Near East...The NMO in Palestine offers to take an active part in the war on Germany’s side.’ ...The Nazis rejected this proposal for an alliance because, it is reported, they considered LEHI’s military power negligible.”

Again, if you want to see the documents on this, refer to, among several other sources, “51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration With the Nazis” by Lenni Brenner -- This volume is sold by the orthodox Naturei Karta group as well as Amazon.com and gives the actual documentary history concerning the strange working relationships and alliances that various Zionist groups in Europe had with the Nazis.

Along with Yitzhak Shamir, this same Zionist, terrorist organization – LEHI -- also counted as one of its members another future prime minister of Israel, Menachem Begin. Aside from all the village-to-village massacres of Palestinians like at Deir Yassin, this guerilla group was also responsible for the demolition of the section of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem where the entire commanding staff of the British military was headquartered. The LEHI operatives who planted the explosives actually dressed up as Arabs for that extra ‘false-flag’ effect so that the British would go after the Palestinians for the bombing, but the British didn’t take the bait, and that is how Yitzhak Shamir, Menachem Begin, and their friends became wanted terrorists by the British High Command in Palestine. This is all in the history books, people.

In conclusion, and in light of the above historical background and clarification of terminology, I want to simply explain the basic motive behind my previous post. I wasn’t trying to scare or disturb anyone here, although the information we deal with at this site is heavily disturbing enough. In the pursuit of honest research into the hidden elements of historical events such as 9/11, we are encountering and have encountered in the research process many people who are involved with sensitive operational details related to the events of 9/11. Many of these people have Jewish last names and have connections to the right-wing Likud Party in Israel and to the Israeli military and intelligence services. Other intelligence services are also certainly involved. This should not be new to any of you here. Anyone who says that 9/11 was “done by the Jews” is just completely ignorant about what is going on here, but nonetheless, because of this heavy Zionist/Neo-Con involvement, I was merely trying to point out that because there are many people out in America who think Zionist = Jew, I thought that before any more ‘inside’ 9/11 info comes out, we might want to educate ourselves and other people about the differences between Zionist and Jew so that innocent people do not unnecessarily suffer. As an analogy, because the whole war on terror is basically framed as a war against ‘crazy’ Muslims, there have been hundreds of thousands of Muslims now who have been recently and unnecessarily slaughtered because of a lie perpetrated based upon a misunderstanding of terms and terminology. My fear expressed in my post was thus not for the purpose of being a fear-monger, but is related to the very same reason why ‘Student’ brought up the subject of terms and terminology in the first place. Because the terms “Zionism,” “Semitism,” and “Judaism” are not properly understood and have been completely and commonly misused, often by people with sinister agendas (like FOX and CNN), we are unable in the Western world to have a civil, realistic political or historical discussion related to any of these things. Because of this improper usage and misunderstanding of terms, the secular, Zionist criminals who in fact did participate in 9/11 and its cover-up afterwards can use our discoveries of their crimes to label the 9/11 Truth Movement as ‘anti-Semitic’ (i.e. anti-Jewish), but if proper understanding of all three of these terms, through education, is conveyed, then people will no longer fall for these cheap tricks anymore. Are you going to call the Naturei Karta Rabbis anti-Semitic when you see them burning Israeli flags in front of the UN? They are not anti-Semitic, or anti-Jewish. Hey folks, they are Torah-reading Rabbis. You cannot get more Jewish than that. Maybe there is something going on here that you don’t understand. You have been lied to about everything else, right? Go look at their website with their protest march photos. They are protesting the crimes of the Israeli government, a government which is run by true anti-Semites, moral-free atheists, and true anti-Jews. Go look at their photos of troops from the Israeli Defense Forces beating the shit out of orthodox Rabbis in the Occupied Territories. The Zionists are the racist fanatics here. We are just historians calling a spade a spade, messengers with an uncomfortable, yet necessary message. If you still don’t believe me, check out the websites and books above. Peace to all of you. Sometimes the truth can hurt a lot.

I absolutely agree with both of you on all your points, and was not aware of Neo-Nazis and such hooking up with the 9/11 Truth Movement. Wow! Yes, that is a serious, serious PR problem. I couldn’t join the KKK scene anyways. They don’t take people of African descent. This whole discussion about the history of Zionism and Israel is so difficult to properly have because of the incredible historical disinformation or lack of historical understanding of the situation, as well as the complete misuse and misunderstanding of terms and terminology. When I was writing yesterday, I did think about the indigenous peoples of this continent and how the Europeans took this country by lying to, and slaughtering, the original Americans. We humans always seem to do things the wrong way, the violent way. Things could have gone much different in Palestine in the beginning as well. I also thought about the black slavers on the coast of West Africa who prospered by selling their fellow Africans to the white plantation owners. If you read the histories of the various Crusades beginning in the 12th century, you will see the Crusaders move across Europe, slaughtering whole villages of Jewish folks before they continued on into the Middle East to begin the slaughtering of the Muslims. Just after that time, the Muslims in Jerusalem would give protection to the Jews from the persecutions of the Christians! Yes, all of our histories are covered with blood and ignorance, but we must still not be afraid to speak out about the truths of history, and these are usually truths never pleasant and fun to talk about. Human history is embarrassing for nearly everyone, well, maybe not the Buddhists, though I may be wrong about that. The history behind 9/11 is not fun. Thinking about these things is not fun, and that is why people sometimes get very angry with us. My intention was not to scare. My intention was to try to protect my Jewish friends, to protect innocent people by saying don’t look at people like Paul Wolfowitz and the rest and then persecute Jewish people because of a small minority of ambitious psychopaths who subscribe to the non-religious ideology of Zionism, but use Judaism as a moral cover. For example, in Texas, right after 9/11 an Indian man of the Sikh religion was gunned down because someone thought he was an Arab, even though Arabs don’t wear turbans. The climate was – “The Arabs did 9/11.” So, through education about the proper definitions of ‘Zionism’, ‘Judaism’, and ‘Semitism’, I thought we should try to AVOID a climate of – “The Jews did 9/11.” I also wanted to point out that I have no problem with people who are atheists or ‘secular’, after all, Buddha was an atheist -- a spiritual atheist. If you believe in the Divine, but do not conceive that the Divine is a ‘personality’, then you are technically “a-theos,” or an atheist. All of my Jewish friends are very secular, yet also wise, spiritual, and highly moral. I know for an absolute fact that none of them were involved in 9/11. They would never blow up a building to defraud an insurance company and start a war. I was only pointing out the secular nature of the historical European Zionist movement to illustrate that it is not a religious movement, yet it still manages to skillfully use the religion of Judaism to promote its agenda and also cover over or prevent any criticism of its actions. For 5,000 years religion has been used for non-religious purposes by the power elite. It is the oldest control tool in the box. If you thought that some of my comments bordered on the extreme, you should read what some of those Jewish Rabbis have to say about Zionism. By the way, last month in New York, the folks from the Zionist club burned the Naturei Karta synagogue and rabbinical school to the ground. The Zionist club people are very hard-core. Later...

and using the system against itself.

We all might not agree with this approach, but we should respect their choice to do it their way. I happen to think that they had no other intelligent alternative strategy to force the government to form the 9/11 Commission. Clearly, they are not happy with its performance.

If they had started making wild, speculative claims, they would've been marginalized immediately. If they were to now start stating that "9/11 was an inside job" they would lose all access to the msm that they worked so hard to get. I think it is very important to remember that these women have lives outside of 9/11 Truth that they put on hold for 14 months JUST to get the first investigation. The family members carry a lot of credibility with mainstream America, hence the ongoing effort by the msm to frame the "9/11 Truth insults the victims' families" debate as consistently as they do. When was the last time the msm actually asked a family member on camera how they felt about the call for new investigations?

Many of us believe that the system is so corrupt that it won't respond to its own internal processes and correct itself. I happen to be one of these people, but I fully support everyone's right to approach this issue in the manner of their own choosing.

Some family members, like Mr. McIlvaine, have realized how corrupt the system is and have concluded that elements of the US government played a part in 9/11 ("inside job") and openly state it as such.

The bottom line is that we have to respect their choice to do it their way as it is their life.

I hope that you and yours are well.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.