call 50% of the population "Fringe".

STFU Chertoff... We've heard your side of things for 6+ years now. If you're feeling nervous, it's because the truth is breathing down your neck.

Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton

is usually used in conjuncture with the Holocaust, however, its first origin was the war guilt question after world war one.

There are some major US "revisionist" who draw another pricture than some special interest sold us.

Bacically I think the "revisonism" version of this history is far more likely the basic truth, covered up by the same old powers that be.

And If you listen to "the crazy sectarian" orthodox jewish Neturei Karta, you'll find out that even they admitted, that Zionist had an interest in world war one and two. The first destroyed the Osmanian Empire, the second one brought their long time dream, an own state of refugees. That doesn't mean that Hitler is not guilty as hell, bus it implies a far more dangering truth. One so brutal to ones mind, that bacisally the State of Isreal got away with every crime thinkable.

this blog for some perspective on what you write here. There are several good posts in that thread.

In one that I sent in I mentioned that Arab lands were given away to European settlers after WWII, as everone knows. I pointed out that this give-away of a big land mass, owned by someone else, could not have happened without imperialism/colonialism ruling the day, as it did at that time.

Check out that blog and the comments if you are interesed.

Once you see it as a colonialism issue, a 'divide and rule' issue, lots of other conclusions change. Divide and Rule tacticians just love it when people name some religious group as the enemy. That is what happened back then, and continues now, in that area and also here. It doesn't make much sense for us to fall for that ruse, IMO.

The problem isn't any religious group. The enemy exists at the top of the power ladder.

I've been trying to get my mind around this problem for years, and you described the big picture very succinctly.

once you understand the principles behind the curtain, the "divide and rule", the "problem-action-solution hegelian dialectic", you are able to view history in a new light.

Religion is and way always used by the rulers for their personal interest.

The term has come to be loaded with meaning it doesn't have. Just as conspiracies are constantly happening and being theorized about (by investigators like police detectives) history is constantly being revised--otherwise why would we need historians? To read the history that is set in stone?

As more people come to realize that there is nothing wrong with revising history, it becomes more important to apply the label "holocaust denier" to those who dare to question any aspect of what is known as "the Holocaust". The problem is that "the Holocaust" does not have a life of its own--it is a term applied to a series of events that involved tragic losses by Jewish people, among others.

To suppose that there is no need to revise the historical record of those events, or that anyone with an interest in doing so has bad intentions is to ignore the fact that the events HAVE been revised by mainstream historians numerous times, and always in ways that have made it less of a tragedy. Still a tragedy to be sure, but it is simply not disputed that the first accounts of Nazi crimes presented by the victors of WW2 were exaggerated.

Neither soap nor lampshades were made out of the bodies of the dead as was once believed. The number of dead at Auschwitz was revised down by several million in the 1980s. Facilities that were once claimed to have been homicidal gas chambers (at Dachau for instance) are no longer claimed by mainstream historians to have served that purpose.

The knee-jerk "you question it because you hate Jews" reaction quite frankly smacks of fear--fear that as the historical record is corrected the power of the narrative, in particular the support it generates for the existence of an apartheid Jewish state on stolen land, is undermined. Combined with the evidence of Israeli involvement in the events of 9/11 (the "Dancing Israelis") and in the coverup (Michael Chertoff is, after all, an Israeli) the existential threat to the state of Israel as currently structured is grave indeed, and justifiably so--hence the hair-trigger way some people have a certain reaction on the rare occasions when the subject comes up for discussion.

To learn more about these historical issues I highly recommend the work of Jewish-Canadian revisionist David Cole for the atheist view and Neturei Karta for the religious Jewish perspective. Though the mainstream press like to pretend that only David Duke types are interested in this research, that is simply not true, and saying so leads to needless harmful divisiveness over an issue that is of genuine importance to Jewish and non-Jewish people alike.

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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

in the revisionist stuff at Opposing Digits?

But of course you are correct in what you imply here -- and therefore I resolve to no longer question the official 9/11 narrative. To do so is very hurtful and disrespectful of the family members.

If the Nazis meant to exterminate all of Europe's Jews then why didn't they just kill them? Why bother building prison camps, and feeding and clothing them? And believe it or not, Mr. Sensitive, my grandmother was half polish and I do have at least one relative who survived her internment in a Nazi prison camp.

Do you have a point that you're trying to make?

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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

was to work them to death as slave labor, and those who could not work were murdered.

My view is informed by The Cunning of History: Mass Death and the American Future by Richard Rubenstein.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0061320684/ref=cm_cr_d...

This is a powerful book that I highly recommend.

A reviewer says Rubenstein argues that "the mass murder of European Jewry could usefully be seen not as an aberration but rather as the culmination of several tendencies long present in western society:

Bureaucratic Domination . . . Nationalism . . . Forced Labor . . Mass Slaughter"

http://warhistorian.org/wordpress/?m=200402

This book also might help explain how a court could rule that a bureaucracy lying about air safety after 9/11 for the good of the state ("community") does not shock the conscience.

The only reason there is Christians Muslims and Jews in this world is because of a book called the Bible invented them, there are a fiction. Is it the best book ever written or the worst. The problem with me I don’t have faith in Bible that man made book I don’t believe in Muslims Christians in Jews there just words we are flesh in blood people tangible not labels

But it has nothing to do with the fact that the Nazis made Jews stateless non-persons and killed them in labor death camps, along with Slavs and others. I see nothing to revise.

Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton

What you're saying is that the 6,000,000 Jews that are alleged to have been killed (in homicidal gas chambers) were the ones who couldn't work? I find that a bit confusing.

I don't dispute that the Germans put people in prison camps and I don't find it hard to believe that those people may not have ever been released if Germany had not lost the war. It is also not hard to believe that the Germans would have agreed to release their prisoners if a truce had been declared. We don't know what would have been the fate of the camp inmates, in other words, because they were liberated. You would think though that when Germany knew it was on the verge of defeat they would have killed all their prisoners--if in fact their goal was extermination. No?

What is debated aside from numbers is the existence of homicidal gas chambers and oversized crematorium ovens (to handle the huge number of alleged victims). The gas alleged to have been used in these killings is Zyklon B. Zyklon B also happened to be the gas that was used in camp disinfestation chambers that no one denies existed and were in fact used for one reason alone--killing the lice that spread typhus. In fact even the mainstream narrative agrees that 95% of the Zyklon B used was for the documented delousing. While all the delousing chambers show telltale blue staining indicative of Zyklon B use, none of the alleged homicidal gas chambers show the residue.

I would ask you to cite what documents you refer to when talking about documented evidence of a plan to exterminate all Jews. And to link to properly sourced authentic pictures of either a homicidal gas chamber (with its location, i.e. which camp) and/or an oversized crematorium oven. Surely all of this evidence was photographed--where can we see the pictures?

And can I suggest that in general it is considered in poor form to post the exact same comment in at least three different threads in the span of several minutes? That is, by definition, spamming. And no Ningen, I don't mean you.

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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

should be taken elsewhere. It does not help the pursuit of 9/11 truth. If Israel is in fact involved - it would not surprise me if they were involved in part - I would think their secret services want this kind of debate because it is discrediting. Sorry, that's what I think.

To answer your question, I think millions of Jews were enslaved and murdered, many worked to death, many simply murdered. I realize I joined the debate, but I don't want to say anything more about the matter.

Let's say you are right - propaganda became history. I don't want it to happen again with 9/11, and think that talking about the Holocaust helps that.

this sounds a lot like the harvard democrat who told me that talking about 9/11 truth helps to discredit democrats, suggesting that I move THAT debate elsewhere. Interesting parallels...

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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

which is why I agree with you on the principle that all subjects should be open for debate, but I also see important differences.

If you have a case to make against Israel or Zionists, can't you make it without talking about the Holocaust? I'm not seeing the need, particularly when it is so controversial.

hi friends, this is my fist comment here, I am from Germany and born in a half-exnazi, half-exjewish family.
I know both sides very close and don`t feel like commenting on the history facts on holocaust and WW2 but I want to say that I just read a book about the roots of both and it is written by the 911 scholar Lloyd Demause. It s called "the emotional life of nations"
There you find a painful but very logical explanation about how it was possible what the germans did, and for this for Demause went into the generations before the war and found a lot of evidence for a very brutally way of parents to "educate" their childs.
The loose of empathy in childhood is main reason for most historical happenings and so I get interested again on 9/11.
It s very interesting to observe how the truth movement is developing, and I am sure that it connect ppl who are more sensible than others- those whose believe every word authoritys told them.
I think this movement shows a new development of childeducation and if this(9/11) would have happened some generations ago there wouldn t be so many ppl who question facts the government told them.
so keep on questionig and good luck, u (we) will win,..

"it is the theory that decides what we can observe"
Einstein on psychohistory

Using the example of the holocaust in relation to 9/11, even though there are many parallels. What I cannot allow is for CNN and others to dictate terms by inventing a problem that does not exist, prompting a reaction that is unnecesary whereby in response to CNN and ohers' bogus claim about the truth movement being anti-semitic people hijack threads in order to support their interpretation (flawed) of what the holocaust entailed.

If people insist on pretending that CNN is worthy of being responded to on this point then I will have to respond to what I see as more obfuscation and conflation. I am the third in line here--first CNN making bogus allegations, then those on this site who take CNNs bait in order to promote their view of the holocaust, then me explaining why those people are wrong.

I could of course talk about how the holocaust narrative in vogue today is one of many examples of how history is distorted by proponents of the apartheid state of Israel, how that deception supports the case that those who insist on perpetuating a racist state really have to work overtime to create justification for something as indefensible as the wholesale theft of land, etc., and how this reality makes it particularly interesting that there are so many Israeli tie-ins to the events of 9/11.

That people go to such lengths to prevent those parallels from being drawn says to me that there is probably something to it.

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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

Yeah I think those are relevant issues we'd be cowardly to overlook.

researched at length once we get our liberal democracy back, until then I'll just concentrate on what might bring that about.

Kind regards John

WE GOT TO TAKE THE POWER BACK!

That is what they tell me. There may or may not be something to what you're saying they say (at best) but it's not going to help us get evil Bush out of power so shut up until we do.

But as I said, I only bring it up when people start playing the "quote CNN saying 9/11 truth is anti-semitic to justify injecting your support of the official holocaust narrative into a 9/11 discussion" game.

I offer a simple proposition--if people stop pretending that CNN has any credibility and stope responding to their straw man arguments I will not then respond to cartoon history with real facts. That cartoon that someone has posted on three different threads, including one that was 6 months old, looks a lot like the cartoon 9/11 commission report (the graphic novel.) You know why cartoon histories are written right? For people who can't handle real books. If you think history is simple enough to capture in a cartoon, well...

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Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force