Noam Chomsky Joins 9/11 “Jersey” Widows in Calling for Release of 9/11 Documents
http://www.muckrakerreport.com/id359.html
February 14, 2007 -- Noam Chomsky has signed a petition written by the 9/11 “Jersey” widows calling for the release of classified documents relating to the 9/11 attacks. The Muckraker Report has contacted him by e-mail and verified that the individual listed on the petition is indeed Noam Chomsky. Chomsky’s name is #6432:
That said, now that Chomsky has agreed to sign the widows’ petition, the Muckraker Report would like to see the following people sign too: Alexander Cockburn and crew at Counterpunch, the editorial staff at the Nation, Michael Moore, Barbara Ehrenreich, Amy Goodman, Maureen Dowd, Frank Rich, Seymour Hersh, Nicholas Leman at the New Yorker, Christopher Hayes, anyone who writes for the Daily Kos, including Kos himself, and the absolutely divine Camille Paglia.
Like I said in my article from a few days ago, 9/11 Widows Keep on Asking the Tough Questions, the Jersey widows say that once they have 15,000 signatures on their petition, they’re going to head back to Capitol Hill. Right now they have 6,600 signatures, 1023 of them in the last 60 hours. Please e-mail the link of the petition to all your friends. Ask them to sign and forward the petition to their e-mail contacts. The Jersey widows have to get 8,400 more signatures. They need your help. Come on - give them a hand!
Continued...
http://www.muckrakerreport.com/id359.html
Thanks, parrotfish!
- Login to post comments
Wow.
This is pretty amazing.
But don't hand me the "Oh, I would've done it a long time ago were it not for you terrible, abusive Truthers" bullshit.
#6432?
How weak is that? Below the minimal Noam. He's letting his pride and hurt feelings keep him form his principles? Might as well erase his name.
on the other hand
his blind "intellectual" following just might fund candidates for truth. Course that's a couple years off. Justice deferred is justice denied, as MLK said.
these guys don't deserve thanks as much as "It's about damn time!" And "When the hell are you going to do more?"
He deserves more pressure, in my mind. But the "Please Mr. Chomsky" approach might well need the "Get your head out of your ass" approach. Good cop, bad cop?
noted jcook. i volunteer to be bad cop. VERY bad cop.
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Please note that Chomsky did
Please note that Chomsky did not say that he would have signed a petition like this sooner if people hadn't been insulting him. That was what the author of the article said about him.
Digg this ish
http://digg.com/politics/Noam_Chomsky_Joins_9_11_Jersey_Widows_in_Callin...
dunno how to get the icon
WhoHuhWha?
It wouldn't matter even if there were documents which needed to be released..... right Noam?
___________________
Ignorance is NOT Bliss
This the end....my only friend.... the end.
Perhaps Chomsky thinks this will shut us all up.
/////////////////////
911dvds@gmail.com - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info
Innappropriate...
Putting Al-Qaeda in Iraq may have taken some imagination, but Doug Feith made it a reality.
/////////////////////
911dvds@gmail.com - $1 DVDs shipped - email for info
Good sign from the
Good sign from the Gnomester-- muted applause (thumb and forefinger) from my house.
Let's email him to support his gesture. None of this too little, too late crap; that accomplishes absolutely nothing, and we should be all about results at this stage.
It doesn't matter a whit why his personal dam is breaking. (And this coming from one of his harshest critics.)
Support Chomsky
There is no question this could bring a whole group of self-proclaimed "intellectual" followers of Chomsky to the truth, who would ordinarily be resistant. Every influential leader can affect many followers opinions. And every new convert is welcome to the truth. I agree it's a positive development.
Right on LEH
Repeating your astute comment: "Let's email him to support his gesture. None of this too little, too late crap; that accomplishes absolutely nothing, and we should be all about results at this stage."
This is all about results. Swallow pride, get results.
Very big
Muckraker has pulled some big 9/11 rabbits out of their hats and this is no exception.
It also is huge validation of the Jon Gold approach of pushing the gentle but strong power of the Jersey Girls and PFT movie.
Strange that the Muckraker discredits the muckrakers though. Somebody has to challenge the big names when they get lazy.
Waiting for classified documents is a bit weak.
Yawn
.
Noam ...who?
*gnah
'Bout friggin' time. This
'Bout friggin' time. This could signal a major sea-change in the popularity of 911 truth and activism. Regardless of what you personally think about Chomsky, he has been voted the world's number 1 intellectual on two seperate occassions (which of course is what made his stance on 911 all the more absurd) and enjoys a substantial following amongst hordes of progessives.
I've followed Chomsky's career and I can't recall a single instance where he has ever admitted error; this petition is a tacit acknowledgement of his monumental mistake in dismissing 911 truth, even if its not an outright mea culpa.
The attacks on Chomsky have indeed been over-the-top and at times ridiculous, but it was a natural response by people looking for support and receiving the cold shoulder instead.
Although the natural tendency will be to say "too little, too late", I think we should use this as an opportunity to build bridges, not burn them. We should stop with the hyperbolic attacks on Chomsky and other leftists and warmly welcome them into the fold. At the same time, we have to encourage them to go much further in promoting 911 truth.
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
hedging his bets. dont fall
hedging his bets. dont fall for the "im sensitive and my feelings were hurt" crap. he is extremely smart and sees the writing on the wall. what would happen to his career if the dam finally broke on 9/11? he knows all too well what would happen. hence this tepid approach to 9/11 truth with a little bit of self pity thrown in. Chomsky is so fucking self righteous. yeah, its OUR fault it took you this long to even look at 9/11 Noam. jesus christ. the guy who wrote the muckracker piece needs to check himself too. making excuses for Chomsky like that and saying we "abused" him is a bit much. hes a grown man, if he wanted to be honest about 9/11 he could have been a long time ago. instead he chose to go out of his way to call those of us that question 9/11 "bad for the left" and other bullshit. im not gonna "bash" Chomsky but im going to continue to call it how i see it and Chomsky is still a coward to me. i see what hes doing here. i can only hope that this wakes up some of his cult like followers to some degree. seriously though, how does being called a "left gatekeeper" keep you from signing a petition? you really buy that crap?
come on guys . . . Noam just wants to play with the other kids
I lost all respect for him as a source of information. However, all are welcome in the 9/11 truth family and I will consider redemption.
In the mean-time I'll listen to Alex Jones.
Runnin Low
On anarchist ideas to write his next appologist book
___________________
Ignorance is NOT Bliss
right on chris
The tone of this article has me seething. Who the hell is anyone to tell me to lay off of a proven shill like the Chomster? The last thing this movement needs aside from Chomsky is self-proclaimed leaders. Sorry, not gonna happen. Every real truther is an army of one, accountable only to their conscience. Otherwise 9/11 will become just another cult like Chomsky's, full of blinded fools led by the nose.
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
damn
straight! Every day more deaths add to the toll of 9-11. I don't mind accepting Chomsky without a word, but I sure as hell won't thank his eminence.
he can get right in the back of the big bus. Seat #6432
Leader? How about follower.
Leader? How about follower. Do we/you want him following, or not?
I'd say yes. Welcome him on board, if he's coming.
Muckraker is talking out of his ass
Sorry, but the esteemed one from MIT was acting like an antagonistic jerk to very polite, concerned citizens who had questions about 9/11 as far back as 2002. Years before he was regularly being called a gatekeeper. Just ask Carol B.
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
My bet is that he would sign
My bet is that he would sign any petition asking for the government to release information to the public and that his opinion about 9/11 conspiracies hasn't changed a bit.
Who knows? Let's watch.
Who knows? Let's watch.
My bet is that he would sign
My bet is that he would sign any petition asking for the government to release information to the public and that his opinion about 9/11 conspiracies hasn't changed a bit.
yeah
good point. i'm sure you're right.
It can't hurt.
Chris, you say: "i can only hope that this wakes up some of his cult like followers to some degree."
It can't hurt.
exactly what Chris said
Screw this guy - I can't even remember his name.
For practical purposes I support an extreme regimen of good cop/bad cop, as mentioned above.
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
hm
as i've said before around here, i think its silly and superficial, even mean-spirited, to dismiss all of Chomsky's tireless work over the decades because of his stubborness on this issue. and i always just assumed that Chomsky had avoided an open confrontation with Griffin et al because, with unsinister motives, he'd somehow managed to prejudged the situation and simply convinced himself that alternate theories of 911 could be ruled out a priori. that was until last week, when i read the history of his correspondence with Michael Morrissey (http://www.geocities.com/mdmorrissey/chomweb.htm), where Morrissey has Chomsky hedging and squirming on the JFK assassination issue like Clinton before the Starr commission. quite disturbing stuff. even so, i'd still be willing to believe that Comsky was acting from honorable motives, if only he were able to explain clearly just why the idea of limited top level conspiracy is such a threat to his world-view (so that we could appreciate why he seems to have such a vested interest in attacking it). because to many other intelligent people it seems quite clear that such an idea can sit very comfortably, and indeed even compliment, Chomsky's many helpful analyses of systematic domination.
Joe90, have you read this?
Re his rejection of high-level conspiracies:
http://www.questionsquestions.net/documents2/conspiracyphobia.html
Chomsky
Thanks for mentioning this, Joe90. I do think I exposed him, and though I gave him the benefit of the doubt at the end, having seen his continuing irrational reaction to 9/11, I am no longer inclined to do so.
If he is joining the call for the release of documents, I am quite sure it is because he knows that nothing important will be released.
Morrissey v Chomsky
So, Michael, does that mean that you now think that Chomsky is knowingly a part of an ongoing conspiracy to cover this up? Your opinion is more significant as far as I'm concerned than that of the few alpha loudmouths puffing themselves up in this thread, because I was so impressed with how tenaciously you held up Chomsky's own professed intellectual values of calm, open and rational discussion in the course of your correspondence with him, even as the temperature of the debate began to rise. While Chomsky himself became increasingly flustered, and as you say, in some sense exposed the fact that, on his side, something more than openness and honest rational debate were involved. That correspondence really is a significant piece in the puzzle of understanding what I called this blindspot of the radical left. But don't you still think that, prima facie, its much more likely that Chomsky is exposing only his intellectual arrogance, and his cleaving desperately to a paradigm of truth that he did a great deal to forge, during a time when that paradigm is perceived to be threatened with revolutionary change? You know from the philosophy of science how interpretation of so called "facts" can be coloured during such revolutionary periods. And the felt compulsion to preserve the workings of "normal science" can make normal scientists stubbornly resistant to even considering certain facts or even complexes of facts. If that's what's going on, a far more worthwhile response than simply rejecting Chomsky as a co-conspirator would be to understand precisely why he feels so threatened by the idea of high-level conspiracy to pull off a coup, and to try to convince him that the paradigm that he helped to forge with his fellow radical-leftists is capable, with some quite major reconstruction, of taking account of such possibilities. This is something for which you began to argue quite forcefully earlier in your correspondence, but which got dropped when you became infuriated. But for my money it should still be an urgent concern of the truth movement to bridge this gap. Or perhaps you have really given up on the possibility, and can no longer make sense of the stubbornness of Chomsky's denials without believing him to be thoroughly co-opted. In which case it would be very helpful to hear from someone who's thought so much on this issue, just how you've made sense of the idea of someone like Chomsky playing for the other side. Because for me, to alter my own world-view to make room for such a fact would be a very disorienting process. In some respects it would seem to require stepping over to the X-files side, which I'm hesitant to do, to say the very least.
Chomsky endorses LIHOP limited hangout!! YAY!!
This petition could say so much more than it does. As it reads it is pure limited hangout. It seems to be trying to get released some bogus documents about a bogus briefing about a bogus terror threat.
Let's be clear--nothing they are asking for has anything to do with the demolition of the World Trade Center and murder of the thousands inside. Nothing. Why? Because no one was warning anyone about the WTC demolition. They were warning each other that al Qaeda was planning to strike. Suppose these documents are released with Gnome's help. What will people say? A HA! MORE proof that al Qaeda attacked America because they hate our freedoms! And how horrible that Bush just let them do it so he could justify his war!! I guess now the conspiracy theorists can shut up.
With respect, Mr. Muck and Dylan, you do not speak for me or countless other truthers. Your words do not carry any more weight than anyone else's. You are not "heroes". You are most presumptuous in requesting that we let Chomsky off the hook for his 9/11 Denial, and what's even more rich because he has signed a LIHOP petition. So it was written by the Jersey girls? It's still wrong and misguided.
No one I knew died on 9/11. But I and others were still violated, and had our futures robbed from us. I refuse to play along with pathetic games of victim one-upsmanship; suffice it to say that 9/11 is quite personal for me and I do not intend to outsource my outrage to anyone.
Noam Chomsky is an irrelevant old fool. He cannot erase 5 years of complicity in the cover-up of mass murder by signing a lame petition. As if.
Would-be controllers of this movement beware--you have overplayed your hand--you are not in control, and you will be held accountable.
To: U.S Congress; Press/Media
We, the undersigned, demand the immediate declassification and release of all transcripts and documents relating to the July 10, 2001 meeting that took place between former CIA Director George Tenet and then National Security Advisor, Condoleezza Rice. It has been alleged that this urgent and out-of-the-ordinary meeting was called to discuss the increasingly dire warnings of an imminent al Qaeda attack within the U.S.
Given that much of the July 10, 2001 meeting has already been made public in Bob Woodward’s newly released book, “State of Denial”, it is unacceptable to continue to keep these documents and transcripts hidden from the American public’s view.
In addition, we again call for the declassification and release of both the redacted 28 pages of the Joint Inquiry Into The Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001 (JICI) and the CIA Inspector General’s report, “CIA Accountability With Respect To The 9/11 Attacks”.
The disastrous nature of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks warrant the release of all of this information so that the American public may learn what its government did or did not do to protect them. Had this nation been properly warned of the looming and imminent terrorist threat, life saving choices could have been made that day.
Sincerely,
The Undersigned
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Even LIHOP enough to open floodgates
Even a "limited hangout" of LIHOP is enough to open the floodgates for 9/11 Truth. Once the Mass Media are forced to admit that "conspiracy theorists" are even only partially correct, there is no more stopping us. Just watch.
you're right, but...
There's the question of causality--how much does LIHOP help advance the truth, and how much is it just a sign that the truth is advancing perfectly well by itself? Meaning that just because a lot of shills are going to start hedging with LIHOP doesn't mean we need/want LIHOP... I agree though that by hedging this way the shills help dig their own grave because as everyone gets tired of saying, if the seeker of truth is sincere, LIHOP leads to MIHOP. Every time.
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Correcto
LIHOP + 911 Mysteries = MIHOP
LIHOP + David Ray Griffin = MIHOP
LIHOP + 911 Blogger = MIHOP!
Bascially, there are so many ways to get to MIHOP from LIHOP, that starting at LIHOP is always MUCH preferred then waiting for the perfect entry into 911 truth!
I think I was MIHOP from the start after watching Pentagon Strike and then In Plane Site, but I also read Crossing the Rubicon, which is LIHOP, but I also found it very credible.
Allow people to go LIHOP, to parrot Real Truther, it is an easy jump from there to MIHOP.
I have been firmly MIHOP
Ever since December 13th 2001, the day of the totally pathetic attempt to prove Bin Laden was behind 9/11 with that 5th grader produced "Fatty Bin Laden" tape that they just happened to find in an abandoned house in Afghanistan.
I was very dubious on 9/11 itself when I saw the second tower collapse so completely and quickly, I remember saying to myself, "well that would never happen in a million years" and I heard a few scattered reporters say that a bomb was in another truck in the basement or something to that effect.
So I thought OK maybe these freaks finally had enough of US imperialist bullying and finally hit us.
Then I saw WTC 7 building collapse and from that moment I knew something was not right.
So for about 2 1/2 months I was not sure exactly what to think although my bets were on the Bush administration being at least "involved" then when I saw the FAKE Bin Laden video that flipped the switch, right then & there I knew that these phucking Treasonous war criminals had pulled off a false flag attack and murdered 3000 American citizens.
With all the available evidence so easily obtainable from so many places today you really have to be dense to be on the LIHOP bandwagon for very long.
If LIHOP opens the door for those that have been refusing to accept the copious amounts of evidence that's fine, but as soon as they open that door I think we should hit them with a big bucket of ice cold 9/11 truth right in the face.
If LIHOP can be used as a 1st stage in order to open eyes/minds that's good, however we simply can not allow it to become the end of the line.
We all know perfectly well that these treasonous bastards planned and executed the events of 9/11 and the ONLY way they will EVER be held accountable is for "We the People" to do it.
The Media has obviously covered up this crime, ALL Politicians are virtually complicit because every damn one of them know perfectly well what happened, so they are never going to admit it without a boot heel on their necks.
Every one of us here need to understand that it is totally 100% UP TO US and no one else.
When I say "US" I am also adding in the "World Community" because honestly that is where Im placing most of my confidence.
If people of the USA were ever going to do anything we would have already done so, at absolute MINIMUM over 100 MILLION Americans right now are fully aware that the Bush administration brutally murdered 3000 American citizens in a false flag attack, sent Anthrax through the mail to scare people further & force Congress into submission, LIED about everything to drag the country into an unjust illegal war of aggression, has stripped the national coffers bare leaving us holding a 9 TRILLION debt, have shredded the Constitution & Bill of Rights, and destroyed what little respect we ever had in the world.
Yet where is the OUTRAGE?
Why aren't there 10s of Millions of Americans in the streets demanding justice, demanding these war criminals be put on trial in an INTERNATIONAL COURT?
Personally I think what should happen is 10-20 Million Americans need to march on Washington and drag every damn one of these criminals out to the front lawn and HANG THEM!
But sadly that isn't going to happen because we cant even get 1 Million Americans slightly upset enough to just carry a stinking sign with a smile on their face singing Kumbaya.
If Bush were to cancel NASCAR and make it illegal to waste millions of gals of gas going round & round a god damn circle every year then we would have 30 Million angry red necks fully armed marching on Washington with ropes & torches within 48 hours.
Why is it do you think these POS Democrats aren't even pretending to do anything?
Because American citizens are NOT OUTRAGED, not in the streets by the 10s of Millions.
That is the ONLY way these politicians are ever going to do anything, they must be FORCED, THREATENED.
That is sad to say but it is just the way human nature and the world works.
All these politicians really care about is MONEY & Re-election, nothing else really matters much to them.
I'd say 90% of the Republicans are actually totally fine with what the Bush administration has done.
Probably about 70% of the Democrats are also.
ALL the Media cares about is MONEY, and their parent corporations make Billions off of WAR.
So what we have here are Neofascist nut bags that have stolen 2 elections in what amounts to a coup d'état, and the Media helped with it, American citizens did nothing.
These Neofascist planned and executed a false flag attack on 9/11, a bad one, an attack that was flawed 1000 different ways and left so much incriminating evidence that a 8 year old child can follow it.
American citizens do nothing.
The Neofascist start a war of aggression based solely on bald faced lies which has been positively proven well beyond any reasonable doubt.
American citizens do nothing.
We know for an absolute fact that our Mainstream Media is complicit, they have lied and covered up these crimes since day 2.
American citizens do nothing.
We already have WAY MORE THAN ENOUGH people to stop this bullshit right now, we dont need anymore people on board, what we need are for that 100+ MILLION of us that already know what the truth is to get in the streets and take over the Media & take over Washington DC until something is done, with 100+ Million this could be done "Peacefully".
We are never going to get more than 65% of this country to know the truth, we know that about 30% of the country must be completely crazy delusional psychotics (Bush's Base) their mind is unchangeable no matter what, about 5% of the country just doesn't give a shit either way.
Right now I bet at minimum 40% and maybe as high as 50% of the Country knows the Bush administration is guilty, all we have left is about 15-20% that is even possible to accept factual reality.
So if 100-150 MILLION people are not enough to call it critical mass and actually do something, when this many people know what is going on and still we cant get just 10% of them in the streets then we are going to have to hope that the rest of the world can come in and save our lousy phucking asses.
My best hopes are on Hugo Chavez right now.
You nailed it.
Maybe those that don't get started by their conscience will only get started once they lose comfort. Or maybe it's just that numerically, we might have reached critical mass, yet perceptively, we haven't, as the MSM still own the airwaves. If you see the world through their filters, you would never realize we are actually in the majority!
Also, most people - even though they'd be willing to do something - don't know what to do, specifically. So let's keep organizing and becoming visible to the public eye.
True enough
The Mainstream Media is our biggest hurdle and have been all along, unfortunately most 9/11 truthers seemingly want to try and work with these lying bastards instead of outing them.
What we need to to do is take back our Media, if we can do that then everything else will fall into place quickly.
FAUX news simply needs to be destroyed for starters.
IF we had a real, honest, Centrist news media then none of this crap we have been put through the last 6 years would ever have happened.
King George would never have stolen the 2000 election in the first place.
Indeed, a debate about "what
Indeed, a debate about "what did the government know, and when" breaking out in the forum of public opinion, is highly generative for the truth movement, as it leads directly to other questions as well.
____________
“We will export death and violence to the four corners of the earth”
~ George W. Bush
then again, it could distract from the real questions
long enough to keep real 9/11 truth out of the presidential election process. plus, we need to know not just what the government knew when, but what the media knew when. what silverstein knew when. what foreign intelligence agencies knew when. what Harvard professors knew when. What Oprah knew when. Basically, what did you know, when did you know it, and what did you do about it are going to be questions that lots and lots of public figures should be expected to answer if they ever want to be trusted again. I know that I will be proud to answer those questions when my grandkids ask...
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Letterman yes... Big Bird no.
Big Bird already has a lot of his own baggage to deal with--a grown male bird who lives/sleeps alone in a nest in an alley in the ghetto and has a friend named Mr. Snuffleufagus can be forgiven for not using his limited fame to expose the big lie.
David Letterman on the other hand, who could say and do whatever he wanted and still have millions of dollars and a job the next day is, to put it simply, a coward and shill of the first order just like Oprah. All these celebs who don't come out strongly for the truth should be ashamed of themselves and do not deserve their fame. Harsh? Yeah, it is. But not as harsh as denying 3000 murdered victims and their families justice and peace of mind.
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Right
Chomsky's signature helps us get these questions out there. All of them. The ball keeps rolling. This is good!
Student's complacency is
Student's complacency is rank. "All about results" = deluded amorality.
A non-earthshaking event...
but it still is beneficial. If you consider the influence Noam Chomsky has and has had on many liberal left leaning journalists (I'm particularly thinking of Amy Goodman and similar journalists), this may open them up to at least discussing the 9/11 topic. And as has been said "LIHOP leads to MIHOP".
I was completely baffled and furious by Chomsky's views on 9/11 and his statement that 9/11 didn't matter. But Chomsky has definitely contrihbuted quite bit to exposing U.S. government crimes, and our media's use as a propagabdist machine of the elite.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves" – Edward R. Murrow
Valid points, but I fail to
Valid points, but I fail to see how responding to the breakdown of gatekeepers with yet more attacks will aid us in our cause. Rather this is akin to erecting new fences in the place of those we just finished tearing down. If we want to make it about factionalism and personal vendettas we won't get very far; MIHOP is still a minority opinion. If it's a question of limited hangout, the intelligent thing to do is push these people in the right direction, not repel them with charges of complicity when they start sticking their toes in the water.
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
problem is not with people believing LIHOP
The problem is that Noam Chomsky cannot possibly not have known the truth for 5 years. Sorry, but he told me to my face that he would have to "study civil engineering for two years to begin to understand why building 7 collapsed. You can't just learn these things on the Internet" That is simply not believable. I am convinced he was saying it to discourage me and make me look bad.
What do we get by welcoming someone like Chomsky into the fold? A Trojan Horse who will bamboozle a whole new crop of innocently misinformed truthers just like he did for his idolizers for five years. Sorry, I welcome any of his followers who wake up to what he is about, but not he himself. He has discredited himself forever in my eyes. Some of us who have been through hell over this issue feel we've earned the right not to have to hold our tongues when it comes to telling it like it is. Chomsky needs no help learning the truth. He KNOWS the truth. You don't get voted top intellectual in the world by being a dumbass who can't spot a controlled demolition when he sees one.
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Well, I read through the comments.
& between yourself & chris you've summed up anything I could, or would, have added. Well said guys, no doubt Noam's corrupted himself beyond any stretch of reason.
Yes
Chomsky is irrelevant.
In fact, he determined his own irrelevancy by his being a conscious and willing obstacle to the Truth about 9/11 (or "Operation Northwoods v2.0, if you prefer).
This will be proven-out by the wide-spread public recognition of the Fraud of the OCT in the forthcoming months, I believe.
He's consigned his legacy to the dustbin of history with his gatekeeping attempts toward preventing exposure of this crime.
9/11 = TREASON.
To each his own. Like I
To each his own. Like I said, the reaction of many will be "too little too late" and that's a perfectly reasonable response. My personal opinion is that anyone who begins taking steps to correct past mistakes should be encouraged in doing so. I think we can be critical without adopting an exclusionary position which may discourage others from joining the movement. This is particularly important with figures on the left who hold sway with huge numbers of people and are in the process of re-examining their disastrous position on 911 truth.
I don't think personal feelings should even enter into it, it's just a strategic matter. If we respond to these sorts of developments with unbridled negativity we're likely to achieve negative results.
As for Chomsky "bamboozling" people, I think the movement could actually use a shot of structural analysis to compliment the conspiratorial. Any anarchists on board is fine by me.
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
hmm...
Don't you think its possible Chomsky has blinded himself to the truth? It really seems simplistic and beyond belief to think that he's just straight out lying. With what motives? You really think he's in some sense "in on the conspiracy"? That seems ridiculous to me (as it still does, i believe, to Michael Morrissey, even after all the years he spent banging his head up against Chomsky's blindspots). But if not that, then why would he lie? As has been remarked elsewhere above, Chomsky isn't known for backing down and changing his opinion. Somehow he's got it into his head over the years that the idea of members of elite circles conspiring together to plot a coup is somehow an idea that threatens his own master idea of domination and injustice being built into the institutional positions that elites are groomed over many years to fill. as i said above, he's never begun to make it clear why he feels this threat so acutely. (granted there's the possibility of people thinking that the political and economic models that have institutionalized injustice are actually all perfectly adequate, if it weren't for bad eggs at the top of those institutions being corrupted by their power. but how many people who take a serious interest in this movement are naive enough to think that?) however, its very obvious that he does feel it. and i think he feels it acutely enough that he's been able to avoid a real confrontation with the mountain of evidence for MIHOP. i just don't believe he's worked through it all and convinced himself that 911 was indeed a homegrown coup and then set about to deny this in public. In order to believe that don't you also have to believe that Chomsky is a bad man, a man as corrupted as the people who pulled off this mass murder? And how can that not be a crazy thing to think? Isn't it much more likely that Chomsky's intellectual arrogance has given him a blindspot on this issue that he just can't rectify? Surely some respect is due to the man for the major contribution he's made to the very possibility of radical critique of political economy in the U.S.? In important respects he's one of the players that built the historical foundations on which the 911 truth movement is constructed. Over decades he's contributed more than almost anyone else to providing us with the tools to expose the propaganda and self-serving deceits of our own governments. You could almost say that without Chomsky there would be no 911 truth movement. I don't mean to eulogize the guy. His blindspot on this issue is a grave deficit, as is the intellectual arrogance which prevents him from correcting it. But he's emphatically not one of Cheney's men. I totally agree with the Muckraker guys that he deserves better.
You might not mean to eulogize him, but....
"Over decades he's contributed more than almost anyone else to providing us with the tools to expose the propaganda and self-serving deceits of our own governments."
And yet, on the two biggies of the past four-and-a-half decades--the JFK assassination and 9/11--the two pivotal events where public intellectuals are most needed to rise to the challenge, he has been weighed in the balance and found wanting. All progress in exposing the lies concerning both of these events has been in spite of Chomsky, not because of him.
"You could almost say that without Chomsky there would be no 911 truth movement. "
One could almost say that--and I would still see no grounds for agreeing with it.
without Chomsky? one can dream!
Does it ever occur to some Chomsky fans that the reason he is so widely regarded as being so wonderful is because he has been selected as the darling of the controlled left and as such has naturally been the "alternative historian" to receive the most publicity in anti-establishment circles? I agree with rm 100%, Chomsky has been instrumental in keeping a lid on the JFK assassination for decades now. He is repeating that role with 9/11. Does the term "master gatekeeper" resonate with anyone?
Sorry to say but as truthers we can't afford to be too forgiving lest we invite our own destruction. For God's sake, Hillary Clinton could well end up signing this petition and even putting pressure in Congress for release of these "prior warnings". Then people can spend a few weeks between Anna Nicole Smith and crazy astronaut coverage debating something very much like the Able Danger "scandal" that went absolutely nowhere.
I'm sorry, but you know, can't get fooled again. Some of us are tired of being played for chumps. The time for conciliation will come after the major perps are behind bars. Compromising our principles before then for some false sense of solidarity with unhelpful cult leaders is just not something that I see helping our cause one bit.
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Thanks!
Danse, you say: "I fail to see how responding to the breakdown of gatekeepers with yet more attacks will aid us in our cause. "
I think it sometimes boils down to what a person wants. If our goal is to vent anger, because it feels good to do that, then venting anger gets us what we want.
If our goal is to get results, your approach looks better to me.
Although, what does it really matter? It's just us talking here. Good cops, bad cops, none of it matters. We'll see where the Chomsky thing leads. Let's hope for the best. since the fellow does have quite a following.
I'd like to know when...
It became the "IN" thing not to support the efforts of the family members.
nothing they are asking for has anything to do with the demolition of the World Trade Center and murder of the thousands inside.
Did you know that the family members were asking about WTC7 BEFORE it was cool, and BEFORE the alias "Real Truther" existed?
13. On 9/11, no aircraft hit WTC 7. Why did the building fall at 5:20 PM that evening? Larry Silverstein is heard on a PBS tape saying "I remember getting a call from the, E.R., fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, "We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it." And they made that decision to pull and we watched the [WTC 7] building collapse," said Larry Silverstein, WTC Leaseholder. - PBS (9/10/02) Does "pull" mean demolished? What do you know about this?
So instead of supporting their efforts, let's instead refer to what they're doing, using labels created to be divisive such as "pure limited hangout ", and "LIHOP".
Shameful. And please, vote this down.
"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."
Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton
wow.
I think it's great they included that question. But that's not the whole story, "Jon Gold". Why did they not include it in their petition? Why is the petition focusing on pointless warnings about something that didn't happen but that the perps would like us to believe happened? Will they follow up with their #13, or will it be forgotten once they get their copies (yeah right) of some kind of incriminating documents?
You are welcome to follow anyone off a cliff, "Jon Gold", but don't whine when no one wants to follow you. But to be very clear, the families (the ones that are legit and not related to people who faked their deaths) have my full support. That doesn't mean I will not criticize their methods. Besides, this post was not about the families but about the value and meaning of Chomsky's endorsement of this particular effort of theirs.
You have this tendency I've observed to pull out the families any time people don't agree with you, posturing as though you are some kind of white knight coming to their rescue. And all this harping about divisiveness... what's more important Jon--unity, or the truth? Lionizing four family memebers or achieving justice for the millions of family members of those murdered in the name of revenge against evil muslims?
Shameful, yeah. Read my mind!
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Too fucking hysterical...
You haven't even read the 9/11 Family Steering Committee's questions, and you call yourself a "Real Truther"?
I think it's great they included that question. But that's not the whole story, "Jon Gold". Why did they not include it in their petition? Why is the petition focusing on pointless warnings about something that didn't happen but that the perps would like us to believe happened? Will they follow up with their #13, or will it be forgotten once they get their copies (yeah right) of some kind of incriminating documents?
Not the "whole story?" Someone who constantly promotes controlled demolition and Zionism has the AUDACITY to suggest that someone isn't telling the "whole story?"
Yeah, pointless warnings. Gee, I wonder what people like Dick Cheney could do/plan for with advance knowledge of the attacks. I'm glad that you know exactly what happened on 9/11 because I sure as hell don't.
You are welcome to follow anyone off a cliff, "Jon Gold", but don't whine when no one wants to follow you. But to be very clear, the families (the ones that are legit and not related to people who faked their deaths) have my full support. That doesn't mean I will not criticize their methods. Besides, this post was not about the families but about the value and meaning of Chomsky's endorsement of this particular effort of theirs.
I don't even know where to begin with this statement. "Faked their deaths?" Are you insane? Yeah, that's definitely worthy and proven information to be spreading around.
You have this tendency I've observed to pull out the families any time people don't agree with you, posturing as though you are some kind of white knight coming to their rescue. And all this harping about divisiveness... what's more important Jon--unity, or the truth? Lionizing four family memebers or achieving justice for the millions of family members of those murdered in the name of revenge against evil muslims?
No, I have a tendency to defend the family members because that's what "Real Truthers" do.
People really need to educate themselves about the history of this movement. They really need to know where we came from.
"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."
Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton
foul mouthed AND a closet LIHOPPER!
Advanced knowledge of the attacks, eh? Yep, they knew those swarthy dark muslims were itchin to hijack planes and use them as weapons eh? Who do you think you're fooling, really? You dismiss physical evidnece as unconvincing and you've never met a LIHOP scenario you didn't like.
Because you are so far out of the mainstream here, you cling to "the families" and act like their big brother or something so that people will praise you for being noble or something even though you're totally wrong about so much. I think your final comment is very telling--you desperately want to portray yourself as some kind of leader in the history of the movement, which of course is exactly why you and some of your friends here use your "real" names.
So here's how it looks "Jon". A group of you folks including Nico created a truth group basically at the scene of the crime, maybe with a little funding from Lucky Larry, who knows. You make sure to put yourselves out there with your real names so as to build credibility. Each of you has a role to play. Nico is meant to go off the deep end so that the rest of you can publically disavow him and emerge as looking like you are "so like totally against disinfo".
Then, having established some credibility with other truthers, you discourage the best (physical) evidence from being discussed--basically dishing out horrible advice to anyone dumb enough to take you seriously. Your buddy Albanese then claims to be working on a film about disinfo--more evidence of his sincerity! Except that the only disinfo he seems to be able to spot is obvious crap like holograms and space beams. Who really believes that that is the extent of a legitimate COINTELPRO?
Please, "Jon". You can fool half the people here all the time, but your act has worn thin with a lot of others.
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
And you...
Are a delusional liar. Why don't you go play Holocaust Revisionism, and pray to the almighty god of Zionist Controlled Demolition.
"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."
Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton
oh yeah, about that...
It seems that Bradley Smith, founder of www.codoh.org (committee for open debate on the holocaust) who has worked with David Cole (jewish revisionist) agrees with YOU Jon, that bin Laden probably was responsible for 9/11... and he rightly doubts the story of 4000 Jews being told to avoid work that day. Incidentally, I'll soon be uploading a fascinating portion of the Donahue episode where he talks to Smith and Cole and also invites a "debunker" from "Skeptic" magazine who sounds exactly like Jim Meigs of popular mechanics. The tactics used by the "debunkers" of "holocaust deniers" are exactly the same as those of 9/11 shills. As Kevin Barrett has keenly pointed out, both 9/11 and the Holocaust are real events that have been shrouded in mythology and deemed sacred and beyond questioning. Do please keep bringing up the issue Jon because it's always good to draw these parallels. :)
Bradley R. Smith , Editor
Number 3
11 October 2004
A MOSSAD FALSE-FLAG OPERATION?
I received a number of letters regarding my observation here on 29 September referencing Osama bin Laden as being responsible for 9/11. The most succinct reaction was from Regina Belser
"You don't seriously think that 9-11 was pulled off by Osama bin L. and a handful of Arabs, do you? If ever there were a crying need for a Revisionist "autopsy," the events of 11 September 2001 certainly deserves (and has gotten) exhaustive examination by several investigators. Their work can be found on the Internet -- don't expect to see anything but the phoniest of alternate versions of those events in the "mainstream" media. A few days of researching what's available online -- plus a good deal of common sense -- suggests that the attacks were most likely either a Mossad false-flag operation, almost certainly with the complicity of the highest levels of "our" government." -- R.
Well, I don't know. I'm aware of the many questions surrounding the attack that remain unanswered, and in mainline media unaddressed, regarding 9/11. My inclination is to think it too romantic to suspect the action to have been a Mossad false-flag operation, or that individuals at the highest level in the U.S. Government were complicit in it. It is too "daring," even for those folk. The bin Laden story, on the other hand, is very simple and straight-forward.
But, I don't know. And I am not in a position to argue the matter either way. One of the 9/11 "conspiracy" stories, however, looks to me to be false on the face of it, just on human terms. The story about how the 4,000 Israelis/Jews were warned to not go to work in the Towers that day.
My take on that one is that a good number of those 4,000 Israelis and other Jews would have the same loyalties to America that most Americans have, would feel the same sense of moral outrage over what happened, and would energetically out the fact that they had been warned, because they were Israelis or Jews, to stay away from the Towers that day, in order to help nail down the culprits.
To have any other perspective towards thousands of individuals based on a simplistic view of ethnic and/or national chauvinism at a moment of high drama, mass murder, and personal tragedy (how many of those 4,000 Israelis/Jews had dear friends who perished in the attack who were not Israelis or Jews?) is--well, simplistic. I am willing to be convinced that I am wrong about this, but I am not inclined to work the story.
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Take a look at this thread
Take a look at this thread to see how easy it is to play the Holocaust denial card against people who question the official story about 9/11. Also take note of how ewing2001(Nico Haupt) offers up the worst defense for those who would question the official story.
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/02/few-thoughts-on-scholarship...
Another lie...
How many is that in this thread alone?
agrees with YOU Jon, that bin Laden probably was responsible for 9/11
Where have I ever typed or said that?
"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."
Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton
Cas. warned me about this...
What happened here? How did a comment about Gnome Chumpsky truther-come-lately status drift into a criticism of the survivors strategy(which may be valid) to the two of you calling each other liars?
Just asking--note I AM NOT taking sides. :(
Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.
Criticism...
Of the survivors strategy (which may be valid)...
Ok. Let's take a look at that. The criticism was that the petition didn't mention anything regarding Controlled Demolition, and that the petition itself was "pure limited hangout", and "LIHOP". Jenny, as your friend Alex said in the video you posted, Controlled Demolition is only one aspect of 9/11. There are other aspects as well, though, they are RARELY covered to the extent that CD is.
The family members petition calls for the following:
1. The immediate declassification and release of all transcripts and documents relating to the July 10, 2001 meeting that took place between former CIA Director George Tenet and then National Security Advisor, Condoleezza Rice.
Why is that important? A few reasons. As reported by McClatchy News, "Former CIA Director George Tenet presented the briefing to commission member Richard Ben Veniste and executive director Philip Zelikow in secret testimony at CIA headquarters on Jan. 28, 2004, said three former senior agency officials." Timothy Roemer, former 9/11 Commissioner said, "None of this was shared with us in hours of private interviews, including interviews under oath, nor do we have any paper on this" [,,,] "I'm deeply disturbed by this." When Zelikow was asked about this he "didn't respond to e-mail and telephone queries from McClatchy Newspapers." Not long after, he resigned his position from the state department. Could it be because he said, "that no witness before the commission had drawn attention to a July 10 meeting at the White House, nor described the sort of encounter portrayed in Mr. Woodward’s book", and instead of bringing further attention to the inadequate 9/11 Commission because of his lie, he dropped out of the spotlight? Maybe. This meeting also involved Condoleezza Rice. She denied any knowledge of the meeting, even though a memo exists that says she was, in fact, briefed. Another Condi lie. As we all know, Condi is KNOWN for lying, and everytime we catch her with one, it lends further credibility to our cause. Finally, this meeting was not mentioned anywhere within the 9/11 Report. A sign of a cover-up.
2. Declassification and release of the redacted 28 pages of the Joint Inquiry Into The Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001 (JICI).
Why is that important? Well known, and respected 9/11 family member Bill Doyle recently said he was told by a source that part of those 28 redacted pages talked about the United States funneling money to Pakistan. If everything checks out in regards to the $100,000 wire transfer from Omar Saeed Sheikh to Mohammad Atta, then that little tidbit of information could be VERY incriminating. Especially since what we know about the wire transfer leads directly to the White House.
3. Declassification and release of the CIA Inspector General’s report, “CIA Accountability With Respect To The 9/11 Attacks”.
Why is that important? Well, we know the report "calls for disciplinary reviews for former CIA Director George Tenet and current and former officials who were involved in faulty intelligence efforts before the attacks." If that report is released, it could create a backlash because George Tenet himself said that he would not be the "Fall Guy" for 9/11. It is possible he would be willing to speak up at that point, and name names. I think it is worth a shot.
The family members who called for the release of this information are not stupid, nor do I think they are presenting a "pure limited hangout", and "LIHOP" related information.
I have always supported the efforts of the family members, and no, I have not always agreed with them. However, there is more to 9/11 than Controlled Demolition, and just because their petition doesn't mention it, doesn't mean we should chastise them with negative conotations for their efforts.
ESPECIALLY if this takes them back to Washington D.C.
"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."
Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton
Controlled demolition.
That is not the basis for criticizing this petition. The basis, that has recently crystallized for many of us, is that strategies around 9/11 Truth either tend to SUPPORT or to SUBVERT the Blood libel against Muslims. Blood libel leads to genocide -- in this case, a Holocaust in which Muslims will be (or already are) the victims.
Arguments about controlled demolition do not support this blood libel. Arguments about foreknowledge -- unless they are meticulously crafted indeed -- may do so.
Americans...
Have blood on their hands, and it is sticky.
"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."
Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton
well
take a look at Real Truther's post where he OPENLY accuses me of being an agent. he in fact maps out an elaborate theory on hiw Nico and i started the movement in NYC with these "roles" to play, blah blah blah.
i ask you:
what in hell didi have to do with this discussion?
how is Real Truther any different from Nico in his smear tactics of inserting accusations against other activists.
besides the fact that RT spams these boards with his long-winded opinions on things that are very WEAK - he takes this BULLY approach of accusing people who donot agree with him - including the victim's families themselves - of not being 'PURE" enough 911 activists.
The proof of this is the fact that i was not involved in this discussion - yet he dragged my name into it and YET AGAIN publicly accused me of being an agent - a disinfo agent.
How is that acceptable? How does that NOT violate the rules of this board? was Nico NOT banned for thevery same tactics?
this BULLSHIT that anyone who disagrees with his opinions if LIHOP and to be condemned is so arrogant that is amounts to DISRUPTION.
He condemns Press for the Truth - the victims families - the Paksitan research - my films - Jon Gold's work - where does it end? who is the "self imposed leader' of thsi movement he whines about? sounds like he is the only one acting like a message board nazi pointing fingers and making accusations - claiming to speak for this movement - like its the Spanish Inquisitions.
You're right that the space
You're right that the space beam/no planes crowd are merely the really obvious disinfo agents. The really insidious disinfo agents are the guys who push legitimate info (ie CD at WTC7) while accusing the victims' of 9/11 of being the perpetrators. When you add a simple minded fixation on Zionism and then mix in Holocaust denial you've got a tasty little disinfo dish.
But really this breed of disinfo agent is no more subtle than the first.
So here he accuses Gold and myself of being 'agents' again.
Does anyone take this guy seriously?
Just look at how hysterical this guy gets when you disagree with him. Not only does he stubbornly claim to have all the answers - condemning anyone who disagrees with his OPINIONS about what happened on 9/11 - condemning some of our most noble and credible research and evidence- like Press For The Truth and the Pakistan research and activists such as myself and Jon - but - he as far as to cook up bullshit about us, outright ACCUSING us of being agents.
Further - this BULLSHIT that the ONLY legitimate 911 Truth movement revolves around his definition of MIHOP is nonsense.
He cries and belly-aches like a jealous child about the self-imposed leaders of the movement while he himself posts these long-assed posts filled with his immature drivel - spamming these boards with his opinions and anti-semitism as if his voice should be heard above all others - as if his opinions are the only legitimate ones - as if everyone who disagrees with him should be ostracized from the community and publicly condemned and ACCUSE of being a spy or an agent.
WHO'S THE FUCKING SELF IMPOSED LEADER?
you are an embarrassment. i cringe to think what a member of the victim's familes might think reading your immature SHIT.
what are you - a complete MORON? you just pull my name out of your as and publicly SMEAR Me in a discussion that has nothing to do with me? Why? because i do not agree with your STUPID interpretation of the facts?
i have had just about enough of you. i have tried moderating my debates with you to reach a common round and stop these PUBLIC DISPLAYS of STUPIDITY. BUT YOU GO TOO FAR!
Accusing Jon Gold and myself of being agents is total bullshit- and if you persist in attacking other activists on these boards and disrupting these boards i would ask the moderators of these boarrds to consider banning you.
no one here owes YOU any explainations.
"False-flag 'Islamic Terror': The New Blood Libel"
Article by Kevin Barrett.
I generally agree with this article
But it has nothing to do with my post here. I am just tired of being accused of being an agent because i do not agree with Real Truthers opinions. i do not need any clarity on the Pakistan research and/or the LIHOP/MIHOP false dichotomy. Accusing Jon Gold and myself of being agents financed by Lucky Larry in league with Nico Haupt is WAY over the top - and you know it.
It appears Counterpunch is
It appears Counterpunch is now getting close to LIHOP. Check out the latest headline from their website:
Exclusive to CounterPunch Newsletter Subscribers!
WHAT DID ISRAEL KNOW IN ADVANCE OF THE SEPTEMBER 11 ATTACKS?
* Those Celebrating "Movers" and Art Student Spies
* Who were the Israelis living next to Mohammed Atta?
* What was in that Moving Van on the New Jersey shore?
* Was the Mossad Tracking the 9/11 Hijackers in the US?
* How did two hijackers end up on the Watch List weeks before 9/11
http://counterpunch.org/
Exclusive to Counterpunch
Love this line," Plus, Cockburn and St. Clair on how this story was suppressed and ultimately found its home in CounterPunch."
Could have sworn this story came out years ago...
Letters to Left Gatekeepers
I would still ask that any of us here willing to take the time for it should send letters to any and all Gatekeepers. They will start coming around, don't you all predict? Be patient.
See my Letters to Left Gatekeepers for some sample wording.
I will guarantee that it never helps to 'nail' them. Instead, help them to find a good story to write. Don't yell at them.
Swallow pride, I say, and be nice. All of these folks are quite egotistical, after all. And we want results, right? Egotists just get angry, or defensive, when we yell at them.
Asking for classified documents a high hurdle
How often are they released at the best of times?
It is true.
These folks will classify anything that incriminates them. It only makes sense that they would do that, for self-preservation. (Look at the lengths they will go to for self-aggrandizement, after all.)
I believe there are arrangements whereby judges and juries can be let in on classified testimony. But as you imply, it probably happens only rarely.
Someone (with our goals here) needs to prepare for this problem. Think it though and propose solutions. This may be nearing a court setting sooner than we think.
And the folks pulling the strings will not fail to pull any strings they have access to. Which is most of them.
Its...
About damn time!
I do applaud him for signing the petition, but in my eyes he has quite a bit more work to do on his end before I will acknowledge him as being on board with the cause. I think we can all ask Jon Gold about what he thinks, as they have had emails going back and forth for months now. Noam has been one of our biggest gatekeepers and has even gone as far as to say "9/11 doesn't matter"
Again, this is good news, but still has a lot of make-up work to get people on his end up to speed.
"Imagination is sometimes more important then knowledge..."
To clarify...
Not for months, just one long correspondence. I haven't emailed him in a while. As I posted below, it seems the Chomskyites have flocked to the petition. If his name brings 1000 more signatures, then good. That being said, why did it take him so long to sign it? Why hasn't he spoken about the significance of 9/11 Truth for the last 6 years? Why has he shunned the work that we're doing when, according to him, we could be working on so many other important issues?
However, if Noam decides to become a voice for 9/11 Truth, a consistent voice, then Noam will be my best friend.
"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."
Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton
propaganda
The great irony of why so many leftists avoid 9/11 Truth is that propaganda keeps them away. 9/11 skepticism has been smeared with every fringe idea out there, and these professional leftists like Chomsky are afraid of tarnishing their reputations. Guilt by association. The easy response is: They should have more courage. The reality is: Many of them are as addicted to power as the people they claim to oppose.
A bot to reckon with
I already destroyed the "not listed in the SSDI death index" line of argument weeks ago in another thread (i.e. not every dead person is listed for various reasons - go read the help on their website).
And yet this blather still gets blindly reposted.
*rolls eyes*
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Fascism Lite - Now with 75% less mass murder and 25% more public appeal!
It seems...
The Chomskyites are flocking to the petition. The signatures have grown from 500-1000 in the last day.
"So where is the oil going to come from?... The Middle East, with two-thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies."
Richard Cheney - Chief Executive Of Halliburton
Sounds good to me
We'll take em!
I don't think we should be complaining about HOW people got to 9/11 truth. For some it may just be Noam's name associated with it that got them in. Is that a bad thing? NO!
This latest on Chomsky is a definite positive for the truth movement!
Please don't tell me that Noam is just a guy
I need to worship another human being . . . . please provide one visible god . . . .
Eyes wide shut
John Conner battles the machines
Curious George and the man in the yellow raincoat chasing little boys.
The GOP = grand old pedophiles
Letter of welcome to Noam Chomsky
Well, welcome to the movement Chom. Congratulations. now get in line, because we have a lot of work to do. You digg? cool.
Yeah, a lot of work
As in, there's a heck of a lot more that needs to be disclosed than documents pertaining to one meeting between two officials who may not have even been central players. What about Rumsfeld's meetings? How 'bout the documents from Cheney's energy task force from the spring of '01, rumored to be all about seizing oil and gas assets in central Asia and the Persian Gulf?
I wonder, why didn't the Jersey Girls circulate a petition demanding answers and relevant documentation for ALL their unanswered questions? Did they already try that and it didn't fly?
This 911blogger story 3rd on Digg "All news" right now
Reprehensors blog is right now the 3rd top story on Digg "All News".
Brilliant work!
(edit; that was 10 minutes ago. It just dropped one place)
This Reprehensor Blog No.1 in Digg "World and
Business" at this moment.
Well done Rhep. and everybody who Digg' ed it !
Chomsky
As I said above in my reply to Joe90, I feel certain that Chomsky's signing this letter means that he knows that nothing important will be released. (See www.mdmorrissey.info/chomweb ).
Yes, a jfk debunker from the
Yes, a jfk debunker from the beginning, although at least he could mount a reasonable defense of the mainstream propaganda story, even if reduced to ad hominem and logical absurdity on the distinction between an assumption and an absolute condition. His 911 efforts have been rather incredibly hapless in comparison, vapid emotive dissemblance at best.
What's the motivation though do you think for this sort of complete denial of even the possibility of state terrorism as domestic psychological warfare? And I can imagine throwing this bone to 911 truth is simply damage control on the one hand while he can still argue against any conspiracy interpretation on the other.
Do you think it's the threat of a descent into totalitarianism? Cos I was thinking that the last defense of US fascism, which must always keep betting the house, is that if the population does finally awaken to the underlying systemic problem and revolts then the matter of an openly fascist state might finally be decided, one way or another, especially if the energy crisis becomes terminal. What failed in the 1934 business plot but was simply swept under the carpet might finally be forced to a conclusion.
Do you think Chomsky the libertarian conservative is simply afraid of destroying the status quo?
Please consider this
We know that 9/11 Truth is rapidly reaching a tipping point.
We know that the perps know this as well, AND they are DESPERATE.
What do they do?
The KIng of the Left Gatekeepers leads all the other Left Gatekeepers and their throngs into the movement. This gives the new and improved "9/11 Truth" credibility and massive msm coverage and it hits the tipping point.
The Democrats hold hearings and investigate the "intelligence failures" of Tenet and Rice, who are then made scapegoats (along with some others) for not acting on their foreknowledge.
A certain "rogue" Pakistani general is also implicated, but he has retired and is out of our reach. The Pakistanis promise to "clean up" the ISI with the help of the CIA.
Ali Mohamed is trotted out from protective custody and presented as a triple crossing spy who let the "hijackers" know about the war games and NORAD "vulnerability" on 9/11.
The role of the Mossad is very carefully skirted around and some kind of apology for not screaming louder about their "foreknowledge" comes from Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.
The Democrats are happy. The Left Gatekeepers and their followers tell the rest of the movement "you've got your blood, now shut up and go home" and most* of them stand down, leaving us to carry on the real fight.
It's called a TROJAN HORSE, brothers and sisters. (props to Real Truther, I think he nailed this first on this thread)
Note that this is not even LIHOP (which is still treason), it's a "limited foreknowledge/incompetence plus double crossing muslims" story.
(I watched the Iran/Contra hearings and I will not let this happen again)
NOW ...what do we do?
1) We keep doing EXACTLY what we've been doing. We do public outreach as often as we can. We study, we learn, we teach. We up our tempo, get more organized, sharpen our game and tighten up our message.
2) We pay very close attention to exactly what Chomsky and the other Left Gatekeepers say and do. We are polite, we let them in, we take every advantage of every resource they have. We educate them as much as they allow us to and carefully note where they will not go. We take advantage of their money and status to hold more and bigger conferences and get real 9/11 Truth films on to as many screens as possible as often as possible.
3) We watch whatever new leaders rise out of this influx of new people into the movement. We demand that they are fully committed to the complete truth and not some limited hangout version before we put any real faith in them. As always, those who are not true to the cause of 9/11 Truth will out themselves in due course.
*4) We carefully and patiently educate the newcomers, as always, to the full story and permanently convert them to the MIHOP reality, thus insuring that when the time comes we are still a massive movement demanding full, complete and independent investigations into ALL of 9/11.
I really hope that I'm wrong about this and that Chomsky will redeem himself in my eyes as I loved his writing for 20+ years until I read what he had to say about 9/11 and JFK. I think much of his writing is still quite valid, btw. That said, I've been watching the clear setup of Rice and Tenet since last August and have no doubt that the perps and the other members of the elite are getting very desperate to stop 9/11 Truth from exposing their game.
An interesting aside. I was talking to one of my daughter's teachers today, to whom I gave a copy of The New Pearl Harbor before Christmas, and he was certain of at least LIHOP and leaning toward MIHOP. This gentleman worships Noam Chomsky and was adamant that he is not a Left Gatekeeper and that he has a very good reason for not coming out about 9/11. Just a taste of what we all might be facing very soon. A cosmic coincidence, perhaps?
We are winning, brothers and sisters!
Always remember that we have the truth and physics on our side.
Justice will be done and peace will come!
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
Trojan Noam
Thanks for the brilliant analysis LW. When I was mired in the antiwar movement ( see my vid here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8847825093526770442&q=boston+ant... )
it was the Chomsky shock troops--mild mannered international student self-styled intellectuals who opposed every attempt I made to introduce 9/11 as a topic of discussion. Believe me, this was no accident, nor was the failure of the antiwar movement--their job was to control and defuse the energy that could bring down this criminal government.
They would have continued ignoring 9/11 truth if we had not been as successful as we have been. So LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE and don't forget to look any gift wooden horses in the mouth. They will be full of these same types (and I will name names if I see them anywhere near our movement) who will descend on this forum and others to lend their support to the most watered down interpretations of 9/11 Truth.
Watch for it--it WILL happen (actually it HAS been happening in the last few months on this site), and we need to mount a strong defense of our movement by continuing to ask tough questions and ignoring calls for false unity.
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
If we make him our (Trojan) horse
once were inside the "gates" all's fair....
This stuff is not necessarily predictable or controlable because the "game" is not the same.
No wonder Chomsky looks tired. This internet thing is no one way book.
good point BMAC
I suppose trojan horse may not be the best analogy since this could go both ways--we could certainly usurp Chomsky's fans by making it clear to them how wrong their hero has been on this issue. In fact, if Chomsky is indeed as I suspect the ultimate limited hangout, that just shows how useful limited hangout can be if we make people aware of the limited hangout concept, so that people know never to idolize anyone just because they are right 99% of the time (not that he is, btw) and to feel free to pick and choose what seems like good ideas among anyone's body of work. Chomsky represents a very centralized kind of alternative thinking--we need much more decentralized sources of information and analysis in order to make use of our best asset, which is our numbers. The more of us who are aware and the more free we are to pursue ideas, the more sense we will be able to make of things.
____
♠
Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero
WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force
Best analysis and advice on what's his name
top notch, LW
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
LW
LeftWright, I suggest that you submit this same post as one of your blog entries. I am hoping that most or all people coming to this site read this post of yours. I think each of your numbered points is significant to the moverment's success.
seconded
blog it - people need to read that
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
Meanwhile at DemocraticUnderground...
Top Spot on the "Greatest" page.
If you have a membership there, vote it up.
nice
You make an awesome 'good cop' Rep ;)
keep up the great work
(I'm going to log in to DU for the first time in forever to vote up your topic.)
The Eleventh Day of Every Month
Focus where the tires meet the road...
I sometimes think too much attention is paid in this movement when this or that Celebrity / VIP makes (even a cursory) gesture toward interest in 911 truth.
Especially when someone (like Chomsky, who knows the truth...c'mon) makes such a wimpy little endorsement as this one is.
Don't get me wrong, if a VIP / movie star / whoever with a huge fan base comes out strongly, well that's a good thing.
Being the 6,348th signee on a (relatively) obscure petition, when you've pooed-pooed the movement loudly in no uncertain terms previously is....well....not so admirable to me.
I'm just going to keep trying to wake up as many of us NON-VIPs as I can...and not pay too much attention to what the 'important people' have to say.
We don't need them, folks.