Jim Fetzer Interviews Steven Jones on the Dynamic Duo


27MB MP3

This is an interview of Steven Jones by Jim Fetzer on the Dynamic Duo show on gcnlive from the 17th.

Have a listen, post some comments.

Thanks to solar roller for the heads up!

Fetzer

The guy is a bullshit artist, plain and simple.

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

the e-mails in question

i've been getting a lot of these e-mails from Fetzer, Bruks and Floum. Here are some of them:

First one is December 29th from Fred Burks

Dear valued friends of the 9/11 movement,

First, I want to thank every one of you for your commitment to this movement. We've seen huge breakthroughs in the last year to the point that the 9/11 movement is now even debated in the media. Thank you for playing your important part. For an excellent compilation of major media articles which have been supportive of the movement, click here.

A common topic which arises in discussions among members of the 9/11 movement is disinformation agents -- those who are pretending to be members of the movement, but are actually on the payroll of the perpetrators of 9/11 trying to secretly disrupt the movement. I have found that the rampant accusations of various individuals being disinformation agents do little to help, and actually tend to hurt our cause.

Yes, of course there are disinformation agents. But it is very difficult to determine who is and who is not an agent. That said, it is not difficult to tell who is causing division in the movement, regardless of whether or not they are disinformation agents or not. And it is clear that while some individuals are causing a lot of divisiveness, others are working very hard to unite us in the cause. I would suggest that rather than spending time and energy blaming others in the movement and outing alleged disinformation agents, we instead focus on discerning who is consciously or unconsciously serving to divide us, and who is serving to unite us. Let us support all who are bringing us together in getting the truth of 9/11 out to the public.

I am writing all of this with some sadness. I've been through a rather bitter experience in the last month that has resulted in a serious division in one important 9/11 group. I am sad to say that though he has made invaluable contributions in the past, I have found Prof. Jim Fetzer, one of the founders of the highly influential Scholars for 9/11 Truth (S9/11T) movement, to be extremely divisive of late.

Many of you are likely aware that there has been a serious split in S9/11T, arising out of a conflict between Prof. Jim Fetzer and Prof. Steven Jones, the co-chairs of the group. In early November, Fetzer began publicly promoting theories that energy beams directed from WTC 7 brought down the towers, that they fell faster than possible according to physics, and most infamously that a grand piano would take three times as long as a billiard ball to fall from the height of the WTC towers (contradicting the findings of Galileo at the Tower of Pizza). These claims were made in links direct from the home page of the group's website.

Jones, a physics professor, was understandably disturbed by these claims and publicly criticized Fetzer's theories, asking for scientific evidence to back his claims. When Fetzer responded by then attacking the theories of Jones, some ugly exchanges occurred. Fetzer unilaterally "fired" Jones from his co-chair position, proclaiming that as sole founder and the major force of the group, he alone had the right to determine what happened with S9/11T. Jones soon thereafter resigned in protest from all membership in the group.

At this point, my personal friend Alex Floum, who was involved in the founding of the group (as was I to a small extent), knowing of my mediation skills, asked me to contact the two professors to see if something might be worked out to avoid a major split in this influential and important 9/11 group. Though Alex was concerned with Fetzer's disturbing claims, he was doing his best to be neutral in the conflict.

So about four weeks ago I talked with Jim Fetzer on the phone. He was thankful for the call and quite willing to work towards a resolution of these differences to prevent a split in the group. However, a strange twist happened within days of that phone conversation. When S9/11T was originally forming, Alex had on his own initiative procured the domain names for the group. At the time this dispute arose, he still had ownership of the two URLs of the S9/11T website. Fetzer demanded that he turn over ownership of those names immediately and threatened to sue Alex if he did not do so. He somewhere found a lawyer none of us had ever heard of, Jerry Leaphart, who then began more formal legal threats.

Alex was rightly concerned that Fetzer was not always thinking of the good of the group. He thus was very reluctant to turn the domain names over without some sort of agreement by the two co-chairs or by the steering committee or membership of the group. When threats of a lawsuit were not effective, however, Fetzer's lawyer took a new tack by threatening to file a complaint to the state bar against Alex, who is a lawyer. Though Fetzer had no grounds for a legitimate lawsuit against Alex, the state bar complaint literally could end up costing Alex his job and means of support for his wife and two young girls. As Barrie Zwicker commented to me, this constituted "unconscionable bullying" on the part of Fetzer and his lawyer.

At this point, I determined to step in. I agreed very much that turning the domain names over the Fetzer without the approval of the membership or at least the steering committee (all of whom later either resigned in protest or were unilaterally removed by Fetzer) was highly inappropriate. Alex, by the way, was a member of the steering committee until Fetzer unilaterally relieved him of that position as a result of all of this. Alex asked around to see if any key members would be willing to take over trusteeship of the domain names in order to take the heat off of him. As no one else stepped forward, I agreed and am currently owner as trustee for the group of the domain names.

Those who had been leaders of the S9/11T group before being either fired by Jim or resigning in protest are currently working towards a resolution of this problem by taking a vote of the full membership (as of the time of the split) as to what to do with the domain names. The situation is not yet resolved, and I've probably given more details than most of you want. Please feel free to contact me if you want more information or have suggestions on an amicable resolution to all of this.

The long and short of all this is that, in my opinion, I sadly have to say that Jim Fetzer clearly has become one of the most divisive people in the 9/11 movement. He has resorted to name calling and threats with a number of people. He is planning to set up a new steering committee for his group with Rick Siegel as one member. Rick is another incredibly divisive individual who has made threats particularly to Alex, telling him to "sleep with your eyes open." I encourage any of you who have a connection with Fetzer, to work to help him to realize what is happening. He has made tremendous contributions to the movement in the past, and I am very sad that he has become so divisive.

I very much welcome any thoughts on all of this. Most of all, I encourage each of us to notice where we might be doing anything that is divisive and to choose to work towards uniting our efforts in the most effective way towards educating the public to the truth of 9/11 and demanding that the government release the many secret documents and videos related to 9/11, so that we can move forward with creating a brighter future for us all. Thanks again for all that you are doing, and even as we stop disempowering behavior like that shown by Fetzer, let us remember that we are all human and honor the divine spark that I know is there in each one of us.

With gratitude and very best wishes for a fabulous new year,
Fred Burks

Deeply committed to what's best for all of us and to personal & global transformation through love & empowerment.

Explore these empowering websites managed by Fred and the PEERS team:
http://www.momentoflove.org - Every person in the world has a heart
http://www.WantToKnow.info - Reliable, verifiable information on major cover-ups
http://www.inspiringcommunity.org - Building a Global Community for All
http://www.weboflove.org - Strengthening the Web of Love that interconnects us all
Educational websites promoting transformation through information and inspiration

To subscribe to the email list of inspiration and education managed by Fred (one email every two weeks):
http://www.momentoflove.org/subscribemol
To subscribe to the WantToKnow.info list on deep cover-ups managed by Fred (one email every few days):
http://www.WantToKnow.info/subscribe

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This one's from "9/11 Scholars Trustee Fred Burks"
Sent Jan. 4th.

Dear valued member or former member of Scholars for 9/11 Truth,

As I know most of you have limited time, the most important points of this email are in the first few paragraphs. In an email sent to you several days ago, Jim Fetzer mentioned that I, Fred Burks, am the current owner/trustee of the website domain names for S9/11T, www.st911.org and www.scholarsfor911truth.org. You might appreciate knowing that as a former language interpreter for Presidents Clinton and Bush and a whistleblower, I am deeply committed to exposing all that is going on behind the scenes on 9/11 and more. More information on myself and the background for the current conflict are available below these few paragraphs.

As trustee of the above domain names on behalf of all members of the S9/11T group, I can see no easy way to resolve which of the two 9/11 scholars groups should be given rights to these domain names other than taking a vote of the full membership as of the time of the split. I am writing to advise you that unless a resolution by the two parties is reached very soon, we will be asking for your vote on proposals crafted by both parties to this conflict.

Unfortunately, neither party of this conflict trusts the other party to manage these domain names. For this reason, the only fair way I, as trustee, feel that we can resolve this is to leave it up to you, the members. I and others have worked for six weeks to try to find a resolution, yet we appear little nearer to resolution now than six weeks ago, which is why we will likely take a vote within the next week or so. For those of you who are very busy, that is all you need to know. For those who want to know more, below are excerpts from emails I sent out recently to members of both parties of this conflict which explain the upcoming vote, the background of the conflict, and how I got involved. The first was sent on December 30th:

Dear friends of S9/11T,

All of us are deeply committed to bringing the truth out about 9/11. On this we all agree. I think all of us would agree, as well, that the current conflict is taking away valuable time that we could be using to forward the cause. I would like to facilitate our moving beyond the current impasse so that we can get back to the important work about which we are all passionate.

We clearly have two factions here of the scholars group. The first faction is Jim Fetzer and his supporters. The second is all who have resigned in protest because of Jim's actions or who have been removed from membership by Jim. As owner of the domain names in trust for the membership of the group as of the time of the split, I have to consider both of these factions and do my best to represent them. I cannot make any final decision on the domain names until I know the will of all members as of the time of the split. In order to determine the will of the members, I have a plan.

As it is highly unlikely that all on this list will come to agreement about any plan, I would like a vote of the entire membership to be taken in the following fashion. Each of the two factions may write their own proposal to be submitted to the membership in a vote. The proposals should be no more than one paragraph. Each group may also write a one paragraph introduction to the reasons for this vote. As trustee, I will also write a brief introductory paragraph which I will submit to both groups for review. Once each group has written their proposal and introductory paragraph, they will have an opportunity to see what the other group wrote and then make one modification to their proposal and introduction should they choose to do so.

If either or both of the groups fail to come up with a vote proposal by January 2nd, I will personally write a proposal for them. The group or groups would then have an opportunity to write a paragraph or two in response to my proposal, which would be included when it is sent out to the entire membership, possibly on January 5th. I would definitely rather not write a proposal for either group, but if one or both groups refuse, I will do so in order to resolve this conflict in a timely manner.

I am taking this matter into my own hands as I don't see any other viable option right now. We have already wasted far too much time on this. I apologize if this comes across as authoritarian, but I deeply believe I am doing this for the good of all involved. I am open to feedback, but as trustee for the names on behalf of all of us, I believe it is time to take action on this matter. I invite each group now to come up with their proposal and introductory paragraph and submit it in a timely manner. Thanks for the contributions all of you have made to the movement, and you have a good day.

With warm wishes and hope for an expeditious resolution,
Fred

The day after the above email was sent (Dec. 31), Jim proposed having a neutral webpage linking to the two new branches of 9/11. This seemed acceptable to all involved with some minor adjustments. However, just today (Jan. 3) Jim changed his mind and retracted his proposal. For this reason, I've moved the dates in the above email back a few days, but will carry forward with the plan.

Here are a few paragraphs from an earlier email I sent to all involved on December 29th providing background to the conflict:

Many of you are likely aware that there has been a serious split in S9/11T, arising out of a conflict between Prof. Jim Fetzer and Prof. Steven Jones, the co-chairs of the group. In early November, Fetzer began publicly promoting theories that energy beams directed from WTC 7 brought down the towers, that they fell faster than possible according to physics, and most infamously that a grand piano would take three times as long as a billiard ball to fall from the height of the WTC towers (contradicting the findings of Galileo at the Tower of Pisa). These claims were made in links direct from the home page of the group's website.

Jones, a physics professor, was understandably disturbed by these claims and publicly criticized Fetzer's theories, asking for scientific evidence to back his claims. When Fetzer responded by then attacking the theories of Jones, some ugly exchanges occurred. Fetzer unilaterally "fired" Jones from his co-chair position, proclaiming that as founder and the major force of the group, he alone had the right to determine what happened with S9/11T. Jones soon thereafter resigned in protest from all membership in the group.

At this point, my personal friend Alex Floum, who was involved in the founding of the group (as was I to a small extent), knowing of my mediation skills, asked me to contact the two professors to see if something might be worked out to avoid a major split in this influential and important 9/11 group. Though Alex was concerned with Fetzer's disturbing claims, he was doing his best to be neutral in the conflict.

So about four weeks ago I talked with Jim Fetzer on the phone. He was thankful for the call and quite willing to work towards a resolution of these differences to prevent a split in the group. However, a strange twist happened within days of that phone conversation. When S9/11T was originally forming, Alex had on his own initiative procured the domain names for the group. At the time this dispute arose, he still had ownership of the two URLs of the S9/11T website. Fetzer demanded that he turn over ownership of those names immediately and threatened to sue Alex if he did not do so. He somewhere found a lawyer none of us had ever heard of, Jerry Leaphart, who then began more formal legal threats.

Alex was rightly concerned that Fetzer was not always thinking of the good of the group. He thus was very reluctant to turn the domain names over without some sort of agreement by the two co-chairs or by the steering committee or membership of the group. When threats of a lawsuit were not effective, however, Fetzer's lawyer took a new tack by threatening to file a complaint to the state bar against Alex, who is a lawyer. Though Fetzer had no grounds for a legitimate lawsuit against Alex, the state bar complaint literally could end up costing Alex his job and means of support for his wife and two young girls. As Barrie Zwicker commented to me, this constituted "unconscionable bullying" on the part of Fetzer and his lawyer.

Jim responded to this email with some questions and accusations the same day (Dec. 29, these are pertinent excerpts):

Speaking of disinformation agents, Fred, since you have been a translator for Presidents, including, I take it, George W. Bush, and serving in that capacity requires the highest security classification, what, precisely, is your history with the intelligence agencies of the United States? Tell us about how long and in what capacity you have known Alex Floum and what kind of activities or operations, at home or abroad, you may have engaged in with him or separately? You know so little about the society and yet have taken such a major role in creating havoc as the recipient of what appears to be properly classified as akin to stolen properly, what right to you have to raise questions about me? I am a former Marine Corps officer who has published 28 books and hundreds of articles and reviews, founded an international journal and an international society, and held distinguished professorships. My life is very much an open book(http://www.d.umn.edu/~jfetzer/). You, on the contrary, are a smooth talker who is doing whatever he can to subvert the search for truth within the 9/11 movement. You are perfectly willing to make false assertions and palm them off as true.....The calculation about a grand piano taking as much as 30 seconds to hit the ground was correct, given specific variables of weight and configuration in which the open lid functioned like a parachute (would you also deny that a piano with a parachute could take even longer to hit the ground?), while the values advanced by Jones were not even physically possible. You appear to me to have an assignment. Is it your mission to destroy the search for 9/11 truth? Your actions powerfully suggest to me this is true. I cannot imagine anyone who studies this exchange ever taking you seriously again. The evidence shows that you are either ignorant or corrupt or both.

Below is the email I sent out to those involved later on December 29th in response to allegations by Jim about me:

Dear Jim,

Thanks for your valuable response. Yes, it was an honor to serve as personal interpreter for Presidents Clinton, Bush, and many other top dignitaries around the world in my 18 years working with the U.S. State Department. I don't know if you are aware that I resigned from this work two years ago because of excessive secrecy demands, as reported in the Washington Post (see http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49449-2004Dec8.html).

For how I came to be a presidential interpreter, you can read the inspiring story I have posted on this at http://www.WantToKnow.info/051119fredburkspresidentialinterpreter. You may also be interested to know that I was never required to sign any secrecy oath, as mentioned in some of the media reports on me and acknowledged by the State Department. It's amazing to me that I never had secret clearance, yet was allowed in to top secret meetings. This shows how inefficient our government can be. Once I resigned, I decided for the good of the nation and our world to reveal the contents of the secret meetings in which I was involved. You can read a brief summary of all of these meetings at http://www.wanttoknow.info/050418fredburksinterpretingstories, which I've had posted on our website for almost two years now.

As a result of spilling the beans, I actually testified in an international terrorism trial against the U.S. government in January of 2005, and drew international press coverage for this (see http://www.wanttoknow.info/050129fredburkscelebrity). The Wall Street Journal even ran a front page article trying to debunk me (see http://www.WantToKnow.info/050226fredburkswsj). I started the WantToKnow.info website specifically to expose the major corruption going on behind the scenes and to call us to work together for a brighter future for us all. 9/11 has always been a major focus of WantToKnow.info, and David Ray Griffin will tell you that he originally had his eyes opened to the cover-up through this website. I invite you to spend some time on the website and see what we are doing.

I met Alex Floum almost 10 years ago in a social community in which I'm involved in the SF Bay Area. I was thrilled about two years ago to discover that he knew about the 9/11 cover-up and was also working to expose it. We became good friends after that, to the point where, when all of the websites I manage (see below) were organized into a nonprofit organization called PEERS (http://www.peerservice.org), I was thrilled when he accepted my offer to be on the board of directors. He's been a most wonderful, inspiring source of information and inspiration.

Jim, I happen to know that at the time the society was formed, you knew very little about website management and Alex acted on his own initiative in acquiring the domain names for the society. You may remember that for a very brief period I filled in as webmaster for the group after the earlier one had resigned and you didn't know how to do it. You knew very little about websites then. I believe Alex was the one that recommended I help out at that time. You two were once very supportive of each other. In fact, Jim, all of us were very supportive of you until you became increasing divisive during this recent episode.

Again, I want to emphasize that I will do my best always to support those who are working to unite the 9/11 movement and working for the good of all people in our world. When you show me that these truly are your intentions, Jim, I will most happily support your work again. However, as your actions are clearly dividing the movement right now, I will do my best to stop your disempowering behavior, while respecting you as an individual. I am very thankful for the tremendous contributions you have made in the past. I know you could be a powerful force again. I invite you to consider how you might work to bring us together so that we can all work for the good of our planet. You take care.

With very best wishes,
Fred Burks

Valued 9/11 scholars, I apologize for taking up so much of your time, but thought you might appreciate a fuller explanation of all that has been going on. Thanks for your support of the 9/11 movement and S9/11T. I am optimistic that through the upcoming vote, we can all move forward in exposing the truth on 9/11. I would suggest that we focus on providing support to those who are most working to unite all involved in this most worthy cause. May you have a wonderful and meaningful new year ahead.

With very best wishes and in service to the membership of S9/11T,
Fred Burks

Deeply committed to what's best for all of us and to personal & global transformation through love & empowerment.

Explore these empowering websites managed by Fred and the PEERS team:
http://www.momentoflove.org - Every person in the world has a heart
http://www.WantToKnow.info - Reliable, verifiable information on major cover-ups
http://www.inspiringcommunity.org - Building a Global Community for All
http://www.weboflove.org - Strengthening the Web of Love that interconnects us all
Educational websites promoting transformation through information and inspiration

To subscribe to the email list of inspiration and education managed by Fred (one email every two weeks):
http://www.momentoflove.org/subscribemol
To subscribe to the WantToKnow.info list on deep cover-ups managed by Fred (one email every few days):
http://www.WantToKnow.info/subscribe

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From Alex Floum
Sent, Dec. 28th

Dear Scholar:

Putting aside the personalities involved and Jim's untrue claims and statements about me (which I will disprove if Jim reports me to the State Bar or sues me, both of which he has threatened to do), the dispute really comes down to whether Jim is the sole owner of the Scholars' group or the members own it.

For example, who owns the domain names may depend on which of the following two forms the group is:

(1) Jim Fetzer, an individual, doing business as Scholars for 9/11 Truth (i.e. as a sole proprietorship)

or

(2) The members as participants in Scholars for 9/11 Truth.

In other words, because the group was never legally FORMED into a partnership, non-profit corporation, or other official entity originally, the above 2 choices are probably how a judge would look at it.

Jim claims the group is his, that is, that the group is really Jim Fetzer, an individual, doing business as Scholars for 9/11 Truth. True, Jim is talking about incorporating the group into a non-profit, but a non-profit is only as good as its president and board of directors, and Jim has not listened to the members' desires about forming a non-profit (most were apparently against it) or who is on the board or the steering committee. Jim has apparently appointed himself president and has appointed a new "steering committee" to run the group which includes Rick Siegel, who has defamed Steve Jones (and I) all over the internet – see, e.g., http://www.ricksiegel.com/images/wanted.jpg for an example of Rick's work.

Jim has tried to fire me, a "founding member" (according to a written statement from Jim) and a member of the steering committee for arguing that the group is a membership organization. Jim has also said that only he has the right to write to the members, even though, acting upon Jim's instructions, it was Jim's membership director who accidentally made those emails public in a prior communication. Jim has basically taken the position that, since he IS the group, only he can speak with the group.

Moreover, because Jim believes that he owns the group, he has insisted from me and more recently from Fred Burks that we cannot hold the domain names in trust for the members of the group but have to give them to him. (The domain names are now owned by Fred AS TRUSTEE FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE GROUP; neither Fred or I ever wanted the domain names for ourselves; rather, because we believe it is a membership organization, we wanted to make sure that the members' rights and wishes are complied with). Jim continues to threaten to file a State Bar complaint and potentially litigation against me even though I no longer own the domain names. Jim says he's the only authorized person to hold the domain names but, beneath the surface words, Jim is really saying that he should hold the domain names because he is the sole owner of the group.

I have always sincerely believed from day one that the group was a member-owned group. I would never have invited Bob Bowman, Andreas Von Bulow, Dan Hamburg, Webster Tarpley, Peter Phillips and the other prominent members I brought into the group to join had I, or they, thought this was Jim's group. They are high-level people who were much better known then Jim in the 9/11 truth movement and who many people greatly respect.

Because Jim thinks that he is sole owner and "Decider" in Scholars for 9/11 Truth (he has previously rejected in writing both democratic and republican models of decision-making), Jim has claimed that any vote which he does not organize is unlawful. However, if you would like to tell me whether you think that the Scholars' group is "Jim Fetzer, an individual, doing business as Scholars for 9/11 Truth" or a group in which the members have the final say, you can reply to this email. If you think it is the former, you can type "Fetzer" in the subject line. If you think it is a member-owned group, you can type "Members" in the subject line.

I am a team player and I will, and have from day one been willing to, follow the wishes of the members. While I no longer own the domain names, I will do everything in my power to make sure that the group's wishes are respected. If the majority of members write and say they think that Jim owns the group, then I will respect that, even though it is contrary to what I believed and what I thought the evidence indicated from day one (and even though a representative of the ethics division of the California State Bar has told me that I have no duty to transfer the domain names to Jim).

Alex Floum.

P.S. I am not writing on behalf of anyone else, just myself.

P.P.S. Contrary to Jim's claims, I am not, and have never been, the group's lawyer or anyone's lawyer associated with Scholars for 9/11 Truth. Law is, indeed, my day job, but my activities on behalf of Scholars for 9/11 Truth have always been solely as an 9/11 activist. Everyone who has talked with me knows that.

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Threats

I am personally disturbed by the nature of Dr. Fetzer's threats.

I hope the good doctor is aware that this movement, which is now millions strong, will stand with Alex and Fred - both legally and financially.

Rick Siegel has made statements that are legally actionable - and can be construed as implying a potential for violence.

Further - Rick Siegel is the latest in a series of promoters of no-plane theories who has attacked Jim Hoffman as a conintelpro agent. Siegel is the creator of 9/11 Eyewitness, a DVD the promotes ideas such as that helicopters were instrumental in destroying the Twin Towers.

In the following passage, Siegel suggests that Hoffman uses websites to monitor visitors and craft COINTELPRO operations.

"Hoffman has done a superhuman job, if he is not just an agency team front-man, managing large websites, 911review and 911research. This is the Honey Pot strategy. IP numbers of visitors can be monitored and cross-referenced just like covert agency boards aka Above Top Secret do. This is the most effective way to control information and monitor its effects on the public. All the breaking 9/11 research falls into their laps and allows them to quickly design some propaganda to counter it. If you know where the public awareness fires are starting, then you can quickly put them out with CoIntelPro."

And now this same character is working in concert with Space Beams Fetzer - warning people to "sleep withtheir eyes open"???

Wake up people. This movement is under attack.

Show "John Albanese...." by CB_Brooklyn

SURE

did the little green men from the cartoon planes with space beams tell you that?

disinformation simply does not work in the information age. in fact - you and your compatriots are digging a hole for yourselves that history will sadly remember you by.

Show "Albanese, as I say again...." by CB_Brooklyn

TROLL ALERT

The better the 9/11 movement is doing, the more trolls we attract.

Fetzer as Mole? or, Fetzer as Meglo-maniac? orMost likely both!

Fetzer

Fetzer as a Mole:

in this interview with Steven Steven Jones, Fetzer makes his most valid point, the possiblity that weaponery from the Pentagon's Star Wars program might have been part of the demolition method of some of the structures at ground zero, specifically the Twin Towers. But what Fetzer does more effectively is stifle, distort, and frustrate Professor Jones and his findings. Ultimately, Fetzer does nothing for advancement of his own information. While he introduces the Star Wars weaponary idea to some, it also radicalizes the 911 Truth Movement, pushing it towards the fringe as opposed to getting closer to the mass. (Thought the Star Wars program is an Official US government project, it is a Top Secret Project which makes the information more challenging to understand.) If the goal is for Truth to be widely accepted and acted upon, it needs to be at the mass. Bringing iformation to the forefront of the Truth Movement at this point should be based on what could be introduced as evidence in a criminal case. Star Wars is Top Secret, very difficult to deal with and at this point non-essential to the the next step towards Truth. So Fetzer is a mole.

Fetzer as Meglo-maniac:

Fetzer typifies somebody who controls a conversation. He clearly waits for a specific point to be mentioned and then unleashes a birage of tid bits and talking points, and mild shout-downs (sort of like a bizzare and softer Bill O'Reilly for 911 Truth). Fetzer does appear to have good information about the Star Wars weaponry program, but a larger area of his expertise is the Kennedy assasination. Some might even say "he's in the business of selling books, and his market is shock and thrill, espionage and conspiracy." In that business, you need to draw attention and know how to market yourself. Most of the time, those with a larger ego find more success (Bill O'Reilly pulls in major ratings for his ego) . So perhaps Fetzer is out trying to build a new business market for the future, one which he can own and shoot his mouth off. Fetzer is a meglomaniac.

Fetzer most likely is both!

Fetzer manges lace the interview with disinfo and debunking 911talking points. I will not assist the enablers of mass murder and cover-up by repeating any subtle disinfo. Whether Fetzer is a top tier of the pyramid man or not is not important (and not likely). Perhaps Fetzer has genuine talent for sniffing out Truth. Though I suspect he has sold out that Truth for a decent price while still managing to feed his ego and hunger for Truth. As for the top tier pyramid men, they're rumored to be very fond of showing off their dastardly deeds in broad daylite like good magicians. So it could be Fetzer is a way for top tier pyramid men to show off their powerful new weaponry to any challengers. They let him loose in the crowd.
Fetzer is most likely both!

Fetzer... Oh Fetzer

What an ugly troll thy are.

Truth and justice!

Siegel and Rynolds, are

Siegel and Rynolds, are mentally ill, and have contaminated Judy Woods, and Jim Fetzer. It's the WNPD (Webfairian No Planer Disorder). They are sick people, and it's sad to now see that Fetzer too has succumbed to it, with the energy beam stuff. People get something in their head, and then ego will not permit them to ever admit to being wrong. I noticed Rick's instability a long time ago from his participation at another forum. They're just sick people. They should be forgiven, and we should all move on and leave them behind. Eric Huffschmidt also went crazy. Something to do with the very nature of the thing under discussion an d observation I think. Some "evil" at work twisting the minds of otherwise good people, making them think they are fighting for turff. It's just sick.

When you see them misbehaving, just repeat this mantra "This is a sick person. God save me from being angry. Thy will, not mine, be done."

Do you have an actual link

Do you have an actual link to the Seigel quote?

the quote

is in the email posted here. read through it.

No its not

I looked, and searched here, it is not. Please give me that link to your quote?

It is in the email in the first post (above)

it states:

"He is planning to set up a new steering committee for his group with Rick Siegel as one member. Rick is another incredibly divisive individual who has made threats particularly to Alex, telling him to "sleep with your eyes open."

There you go. The no-planes, "Mission Accomplished" helicopters caused the collapse guy is now working with Fetzer.

what a suprise!!

"Rick Siegel" is also "Mr

"Rick Siegel" is also "Mr Mini Nukes". I hated his first film, could’nt even watch it all because the music was so awful (some kind of elevator instrumental shit) and the narrator’s voice I found abrasive. I haven’t even seen his second, and regard him as disinfo frankly.

Fetzer is a dangerous clown

and the unresolved issues of 9/11 his three ring circus.

Thanks to truth911.net posting the details of the Fetzer debacle.The less confusion over why Fetzer has to be thrown overboard the better. Good job.

Agreed, throw Fetzer

Agreed, throw Fetzer overboard.

Thanks for posting these

Thanks for posting these lengthy emails, they are very insightful.

Deception - the tool of Disinfo.

Please take a minute to see why I feel that Fetzer is being deceptive.
http://www.freewebs.com/springfield911truth/911breakingnews.htm

Chris Bollyn

He has just posted an article about thermate here

iamthewitness

It is worth a read. Fetzer is either a fruitcake or a disino pest clearly.

Note how quickly someone sought to distract from my point...

My denouncement of Fetzer.
Friday, Jan 19, 2007

Fetzer Fires
http://www.freewebs.com/springfield911truth/fetzerfires.JPG

Regular Fires
http://www.freewebs.com/springfield911truth/pics 025.jpg

Please compare these pictures with REGULAR CAR FIRES (I am assuming that these fires were NOT started by "space beams") I feel that his word selection is deceptive, and that is a tool of the enemy.

If doors "wilt" in regular fires... why is it "peculiar"
"The tires and even the pavement catch fire" is not unique to the WTC car fires.
The author seems to think it is IRREGULAR for the hood area to catch fire first, but think about path of least resistance. Where are the most easily flammable things in a car? Under the hood - not through the metal gas tank.
Why does he continue to use the word "wilt" when "become crushed" is the far more likely scenario?
There is nothing unusual about these cars. It's quite a leap to assume space beams... you might as well say it was caused by light sabres.
Conclusion:
The 9/11 truth movement needs a leader or leadership council and fast. I believe that anyone that extrapolates too fervently is missing the point. We can all agree that sulfidation points to thermate and that building 7 was demolished. What more do we need? Let's put people on trial. We should be thinking about the best way to assure that a trial goes forward and that our exit plan is strong.

In truth,
Jesse

Note: There may be posts that try to get you to focus on the more "outlandish" theories below. I encourage you to look at them and decide for yourself, but realize that the 9/11 truth movement is not about "theories" - it is about the best path to justice. I believe that to be that the official story is verifiably untrue. Look at building 7 falling in the exact manner of a controlled demolition and ask why it wasn't mentioned in the comission report. Thank you for your patriotism.

__________________________________COMMENTS BEGIN HERE___________________________________

(comments 1-3)
anonymous (unverified): The Missiles at Ground Zero
by Robert Pate

Some Events of September 11, 2001 are still shrouded in mystery. What happened that day at Ground Zero –the area which held the World Trade Center complex –has not been fully explained. An official government report headed by a number of well-known public officials has been issued, but important questions remain unanswered.

How did the Twin Towers fall? Why didn't the nation's air defense system intercept the hijacked planes? What was the chain of events that led to the collapse –late in the afternoon –of a third building, World Trade Center 7?

There seem to be two main views of what happened on that day. One view is that of the 9/11 Commission Report, whose authors say we simply were attacked by Islamic terrorists without warning. The other view –mainly held by leftist conspiracy theorists –agrees that we were so attacked, but in addition asserts that the U.S. government knew of the attacks in advance, or even facilitated them, and exploited them in such a way as to further its own foreign policy. Both views are flawed.

The 9/11 Commission Report omits important information and includes fabricated timelines. And the critics who maintain a government conspiracy are wrong in their analysis when they say the Twin Towers fell due to a controlled demolition –or the fantastic claim made by some that "no plane hit the Pentagon."

Attack on the Twin Towers

Fortunately, we have several video recordings from both professional and amateur cameramen to help us understand what really happened on that day.

Among the cameramen were two French brothers, Jules and Gedeon Naudet, who were in New York City filming a documentary about a rookie firefighter. That morning around 8:30, Jules Naudet followed a group of firefighters who responded to an "odor of gas" call at the intersection of Lispenard and Church Streets –several blocks north of the World Trade Center. The run was routine and Jules began filming the firefighters checking for the gas leak. At 8:46 the roaring noise of a low-flying plane caught the attention of the firefighters and Naudet –who proceeded to capture his nearly-unique footage of American Airlines Flight 11 crashing into the North Tower (World Trade Center 1).

These firefighters, along with Jules Naudet, were the first responders arriving at the building four minutes after the aircraft crashed into the 110-story skyscraper. They entered the lobby from the west side and found two individuals on fire. Windows were blown out and the marble slabs that covered the walls were shattered, giving the appearance that a bomb had exploded at ground level. Apparently a fiery blast of burning jet fuel had come down the freight elevator and exploded into the lobby and the sub-level floors below. Unlike the regular elevators –which were staggered in a broken series covering the lower third, middle third, and top third of the tower –the freight elevator ran continuously from top to bottom, enabling the explosion to travel the full distance.

Gedeon Naudet was at the firehouse at 100 Duane Street when Flight 11 crashed into the North Tower. He began walking south with his own camera toward the World Trade Center. It appears Gedeon used Broadway and was one block east of the complex, at the intersection of Broadway and Vesey Street, when the second plane struck, hitting the South Tower (World Trade Center 2) at 9:03.

In footage taken by Gedeon of the second attack, we see a streaking object –apparently a missile –flying across his field of view. Matt Drudge placed video frames showing the "mystery object" on his Web site, Drudge Report, on September 16, 2001. Drudge credited the image to Gamma Press –the French news agency which employed the Naudets. Fox News also reported on the "streaking object" a few days after the attacks.

Using the footage they had taken that day, the two brothers produced a DVD documentary titled 9/11 (2002, Goldfish Pictures). In the film, Gedeon Naudet gives the impression that he witnessed the second plane hitting the South Tower not on Broadway, but one block closer at the corner of Vesey and Church Streets.

The documentary shows the crash of the second plane into the South Tower –then an abrupt cut in the film –followed by footage shot while the terrified cameraman ran north on Church Street. The cut footage would, I believe, have shown the missile explosion.

The video taken at Vesey and Church that appeared in the DVD came from another source since, obviously, Gedeon could not have been in two locations at once when the second plane hit. Gedeon Naudet must have somehow encountered the cameraman who shot this scene and obtained his film. All footage available to the Naudets showing the missile explosion was edited from the final cut of their DVD.

In the documentary the narrator says Gedeon, at that time, did not approach any closer than the intersection of Barclay and Church Streets (one block north of the WTC) without the assistance of firefighters. Gedeon apparently had circled back from Broadway and Vesey onto Barclay and Church Streets where the FBI began securing an area that contained the wreckage of an engine and landing gear from the second plane. At the time authorities prevented Gedeon from approaching any closer and he decided to return to the firehouse. However, about an hour later –after the South Tower had collapsed –Gedeon would arrive at the World Trade Center with three firefighters in a pickup truck.

The Missiles

Several other cameras recorded the impact of the first missile and the smoke from the explosion. A CNN camera on the north side of Manhattan filmed the white smoke plume just seconds after United Airlines Flight 175 crashed into the South Tower. Jules Naudet was inside the lobby of the North Tower when the second plane hit and also filmed the white smoke drifting toward the South Tower. This footage can be seen in the 9/11 documentary.

Other footage showing the missile explosion was taken by Jack Taliercio, a local Fox News cameraman. Taliercio was positioned in the plaza at the base of the North Tower and focused his camera on the burning building directly above him. In his video recording we see the second plane hitting the South Tower followed a few seconds later by an immense explosion on Taliercio's right near the vicinity of World Trade Center 6. WTC 6 was a seven-story building on the north side of WTC 1. The explosion sent debris flying in all directions. This footage was shown without explanation on news programs in the early days after 9/11, but is rarely seen today.

The impact point of the first missile can be determined by examining the frames provided by Matt Drudge and utilizing the data in a government report issued by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). This missile appears to have overshot WTC 6 and hit the taller building across Vesey Street: World Trade Center 7. According to the NIST report, a large deep hole with black smoke emanating from it was seen on the south side of WTC 7 on the 14th floor.

After the crash of the second plane into the South Tower individuals began making emergency 911 calls claiming they saw a missile coming form the nearby Woolworth building. The Woolworth building was completed in 1913 and was once one of the tallest buildings in New York City. The building is located northeast of the World Trade Center at the intersection of Broadway and Barclay Street.

If a missile came from the direction of the Woolworth building then it could not have been the same missile that hit WTC 7. This second missile flew east to west –roughly parallel to Barclay Street –passing near the Woolworth building and exploding into an open parking area northwest of the Twin Towers.

A satellite photo of Ground Zero taken by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) reveals where the missile landed. In the photo we see a black crater and a row of 15 burnt vehicles on the west side of the parking lot. Both missiles were fired by a pair of F-15 fighters sent to intercept the hijacked planes.

Response from Otis Air National Guard Base

American Airlines Flight 11 was hijacked at 8:13 when Mohamad Atta took control of the plane about 50 miles west of Boston, Massachusetts. Shortly thereafter the flight's transponder was turned off. Around 8:20 the flight stopped transmitting its Identify Friend or Foe (IFF) beacon signal and started to deviate from its scheduled path. At that time authorities thought the plane may have been hijacked. At 8:24 the plane made a 100-degree turn to the south heading toward New York City. At 8:34 –some reports say "around 8:30" –Boston flight controllers attempted to contact Otis Air National Guard Base at Cape Cod and inform them of the hijacked plane.
The flight controllers contacted the air base directly without using NORAD as an intermediary. One of the pilots at Otis, Lieutenant Colonel Timothy Duffy said "It didn't happen the way it was supposed to. We were the ones who were contacted right away and knew about it before the air defense sector."

Duffy said he received a call at about 8:30 or 8:35 from one of the sergeants about the hijacking. Also, an officer told him "This looks like the real thing." Duffy said "As soon as we heard there was something about a hijacking we got moving. I called for 'Nasty' (Major Daniel Nash) and I to suit up right away."

Lieutenant Colonel Duffy continued, "Halfway to the jets, we got 'battle stations,' and I briefed Nasty on the information I had about the American Airlines flight. About 4-5 minutes later, we got the scramble order and took off." According to Aviation Week and Space Technology (6/3/2002) the fighters flew out of Otis about the same time Flight 11 crashed into the North Tower at 8:46. Other reports claim they departed at 8:52. Lieutenant Colonel Duffy said "I just wanted to get there. I was in full
Jan 20, 2007, 09:45 PM (UTC -5)

Uhg!

After listening to this I have lost any respect I had left for Mr. Fetzer. His tactics in this interview were childish. It really annoyed me when he would rudely turn down Mr. Jones volume and talk over him, acting as if it was his turn to speak. I sure hope Fetzer doesn't do any media appearances anymore. Star Wars beams??? How the heck do you look at the collapse and come up with that?

---From a decon @ my church: "I want to tell you something very serious..very serious, but I don't want you to say 'I told you so'. I want you to forgive me..You were right. I know the truth about 9/11.

Why is Fetzer fixated on this space-beam junk? He's not even a

scientist, so why does he feel so strongly about space beams, & why is he going against Dr. Jones, who is an accomplished scientist?

Fetzer, where's the scientific method at?

"In August 2006, we began looking at the bathtub which protected the WTC and it led us to look at more data. The data told us what destroyed the twin towers. The data told us that directed-energy weapons must exist. We were not aware that the US military had directed-energy weapons. AFTER WE CONCLUDED that some sort of energy weapon was used, WE LOOKED FOR EVIDENCE that such weapons exist and found it, as documented here."
http://www.911researchers.com/node/90 - This seems to be designed to support fetzer.

Does anyone see the apparent flaw, that goes directly against the scientific method?

"AFTER WE CONCLUDED...
WE LOOKED FOR EVIDENCE"

This is the scientific method...
Define the question
Gather information and resources
Form hypothesis
Perform experiment and COLLECT DATA or (Look for evidence / base data)
Analyze data
Interpret data and draw CONCLUSIONS that serve as a starting point for new hypotheses
Publish results

Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice website covers how Reynolds &

Wood attacked Steven Jones & how they promoted "no planes" at the WTC disinformation:
http://stj911.org/perception/misinformation.html

Show "Truth?" by Truth and Justice (not verified)

Fetzer or O'Reilly?

While listening to this i just waited for the "Shut up!"

Sorry, but Fetzer sucks!

Show "Steven Jones Shows His True Colors!" by CB_Brooklyn

Why the hell would Steven

Why the hell would Steven Jones be a plant when he is totally dedicated to 9/11 Truth?
Who cares HOW it happened, the fact is: We know it happened and we are trying to put the word out.
Having theories about how the towers blown up is not going to help get the word out at all.
Why must you always criticize people who are trying to expose 9/11 Truth and don't use your method?
You, if anyone, sounds like a plant!

Show "Jones was a plant in Cold Fusion research too." by CB_Brooklyn
Show "Arabesque, why do you keep citing that ridiculous article?" by CB_Brooklyn

Steven Jones has replied

The highest possible compliment on 9/11 Blogger is when CB_Brooklyn calls your post “ridiculous”.  Thanks CB! 

p.s. read here for another reply to the discussed article.  It shows just who the real frauds are!  Hint: they don't work for "Los Alamos".

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

I read your article

I don't know enough about the thermate issue to respond to the substance, but the statements of Reynolds and Wood in that paper are definitely unprofessional. Why would they act like that? It really bothers me. I'm starting to think its political kabuki and it really makes me mad. I'm sorry I went off on you.

Show "that 'article' is a joke" by Anonymous (not verified)
Show "see arabesque run away from the facts here" by Anonymous (not verified)

Intellectual Honesty in the search for 9/11 Truth

A short opinion piece: Fundamental Intellectual Honesty in the search for 9/11 Truth.

“Thermite Hypothesis” versus “Toasted Car” Hypothesis

Any legitimate criticism of any theory is acceptable. What is not acceptable is shameless distortion, name calling and illogical distortions. This is a form of lying.

Let’s say you have a theory. Your theory (Z) has 11 components

A

B

C

D

E

F

G

H

I

J

K (x, y, etc)

K is comprised of its own elements; x and possibly others yet to be identified (y, etc). This is admitted in the theory. You have also acquired physical and visual evidence that x is indeed present.

Now let’s say someone comes along and says your entire theory is x, ignoring all of the other 11 pieces of the theory. Imagine someone just called your evidence your “hypothesis”. That’s pretty crazy huh? Imagine that they totally ignore the fact that x is only one component of K and can be explained by other elements as well. Imagine that they also call you names, and distort what you say when you try to respond to them. Imagine that they criticize you for saying that it impossible to get “orange” molten aluminum when it is indeed impossiblewith the jet fuel fire temperatures as seen in the WTC.

Would you consider this behavior to be acceptable?

Judy Wood and Morgan Reynolds have published a paper that has done exactly this. [“Scientific Method” applied to the “Thermite Hypothesis”]. A crass and blatant straw-man distortion that blows their credibility hell high out of the water.

Now it is one thing to distort the position of Steven Jones. It is another when his theory is part of the search for 9/11 truth.  Distorting any theory that tries to explain the events of 9/11 is an attack against the entire 9/11 truth movement. It would be equally indefensible if someone distorted the theories of Wood or Reynolds.

Example: Judy Wood and Morgan Reynolds maintain a “Toasted Car” Hypothesis. Then I proceed to only talk about their toasted car “evidence”. I ignore every other aspect of their theory. Would you consider that acceptable? Of course not! If Steven Jones did that to Wood and Reynolds he would be crucified for this behavior.

It is about time we have some intellectual honesty. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

If you are going to engage in intellectual dishonesty I am going to call you on it. Those of you who support this nonsense are just as suspect.

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

Mr. Jones

Your post fails to use logic. Jones is not dedicated to 9/11 "truth" unless you consider the official story to be the "truth." Why is Mr. Jones afraid to look at the DATA? He threw a childish temper tantrum on the radio, breaking into tears, in an attempt to get away from having to discuss REAL data.

FETZER IS A LIABILITY

THERE IS PLENTY OF PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE THAT DEMONSTRATES THAT DAMAGE TO SURROUNDING BUILDINGS WAS CAUSED BY FALLING WTC DEBRIS. (WTC 3, 6 & BANKERS TRUST)

FETZER IS EITHER LOOSING HIS 'GRIP' ON REALITY OR IS PURPOSELY ADVANCING THE TOTALLY UNPROVEN 'SPACE WEAPONS' VIEW OUT TO DESTROY THE CREDIBILITY OF THE CAUSE.

FETZER IS AN EMBARRASSMENT AT THIS STAGE.

Steven Jones' volume-variable mic

So disrespectful of Fetzer. He (or one of his technicians on the show) actually turns down Steven Jones' mic several times so that Fetzer can blab on like an automatron about useless drivel several times during that recording. If Fetzer was somehow trying to prove that he was the more respectable scientist (which it appears judging by his touting of his years in "philosophy of science" and his criticism of Jones' very-standard application of the scientific method), he failed. He failed miserably. He proved just the opposite. Fetzer is an idol-worshiper. His idols are Wood and Morgan Reynolds and whomever else, and next week they'll probably be someone else. He is too easily swayed (aka gullible) to be a leader in the 9/11 truth movement.

He also acts like Bill O'Reilly. I forced myself to listen to him be rude to Steven Jones, interrupting and droning on on top of Steven Jones' words for 98% of the show. I threw my headset to the floor in the last few minutes. He seriously grates on me. I always felt that Fetzer was a bit of a loose cannon, from first sight. But I assumed he was just an eccentric, semi-arrogant professor and still gave him a chance. I left the 9/11 truth sites for a few months focusing on the stuff I need to do with my life and came back and he's causing all sorts of trouble. Divisiveness. Conceit. Arrogance. Everyone, please make sure Steven Jones doesn't get a radio show because we don't want it to go to his head too and have another leader in the movement become a jackass.

pretty obvious Fetzer is either a disinfo pest

This debacle just confirms it, unless he is mentally ill! Visit www.iamthewitness.com

oops

THERE IS PLENTY OF PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE THAT DEMONSTRATES THAT DAMAGE TO SURROUNDING BUILDINGS WAS CAUSED BY FALLING WTC DEBRIS. (WTC 3, 6 & BANKERS TRUST)

Steve Jones now says that damage was caused by SUPERTHERMITE placed in every WTC building. You need to revise your script.

SPACE WEAPONS? WHY NOT SPACE ALIENS?!

FETZER HAS ABOUT AS MUCH EVIDENCE FOR THE USE OF SPACE WEAPONRY AT THE WTC AS HE HAS FOR SPACE ALIENS LAUNCING THEM.

FETZER HAS REDUCED HIMSELF TO A CARICATURE ... RESEMBLING A STUBBORN, CONFUSED AND MUMBLING ADULT IN THE ADVANCED STAGES OF SENILITY.

HE NEEDS TO BE CUT LOOSE.

FOR WHAT EVER REASON, HE HAS QUITE SUCCESSFULLY DIVIDED THE MOVEMENT AND REDUCED IT TO A JERRY SPRINGER LIKE FOOD FIGHT OVER RIDICULOUS 'SPACE WEAPONS' THEORIES.

CHARLIE - do you ever get tired

of fighting for the losing team?

Dr. Fetzer forwarded the idea that a giant laser from building 7 was bounced off a satellite to knock down the towers.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

YOU MUST HAVE THE WORST JOB ONTHE PLANET- DAY AFTER DAY ATTEMPTING TO DEFEND THIS!!!

Show "as I said Albanese..." by CB_Brooklyn

HA!

Albanese - +1
Charlie - 0

"Quite successfully"? I don't think so...

"HE HAS QUITE SUCCESSFULLY DIVIDED THE MOVEMENT AND REDUCED IT TO A JERRY SPRINGER LIKE FOOD FIGHT OVER RIDICULOUS 'SPACE WEAPONS' THEORIES."

Actually, I disagree. He has UNITED the movement AGAINST his claims. He very much stands alone, or nearly so...which is why he's now resorting to childish namecalling and brute interpersonal behaviors.
Don't let anyone tell you this movement is divided. We are virtually impervious to any government-sponsored division, as hard as they are currently attempting to split us up. Even the quote above may or may not be deliberate divisive language, which is indeed the reason I even responded here, and I rarely partake in these blogger discussions.

I agree

in fact - their attempts to discredit this movement are so transparent that it is in fact backfiring on them.

Show "STJ911.org has the space alien experts" by Anonymous (not verified)

Fetzer

What a Cork-In-The-A$$hole-Of-Progress Jim Fetzer turned out to be.

Fetzer is kooked. He's an

Fetzer is kooked.

He's an ego-maniac.

The movement needs to move past Fetzer. We don't have time for this crap!!

Agreed Fetzer needs to shut up

I feel for Dr. Jones in this interview...He's being suppressed and silenced constantly by Fetzer. Jones' frustration is extremely evident and Fetzer's ego trip.
I don't care for Judy Wood's Keebler elves' oven comparison nor do I care for this ridiculous UNFOUNDED space beam bullshit that reeks to high heaven of NWO disinfo tactics.
Steven Jones Rocks!!

Anybody who has any question

Anybody who has any question about who is more divisive, Fetzer or S. Jones, only has to listen to this interview. Judge for yourself. It is so obvious.

Fetzer in need of lobotomy reversal...

What the hell is going on here?

Space beams and CGI - refutable/wild hypotheses;
Collapse speed of both towers (<10.5 seconds) - disproves official hypothesis of a gravity-induced collapse;

There really is no need to debate the first example -- even if it were true, it would also disprove the government's explanation. People should recognise, and many are aware, it is difficult to properly inform people that your government were complicit in the attacks of 9/11. If you are truly interested in spreading the truth, you would recognise the psychological barriers the misinformed face in accepting the logical alternative are difficult to overcome. You would also be aware that discussion of space beams etc. would 'cloud the waters' in that it distracts the misinformed just as they are introduced to the Unofficial Theory. Stop it.

It is harmful to the real 911 truth movement, and to the future of this planet, to even debate this. It only gives credence to the space beam disinformationist movements and, from what i can see, Mr Fetzer is knowingly propagating this disinformation (or, at least trying to).

Focus on what you already know and sort your damn country out.

Sorry if the above rant sounds pretentious - I know from regular viewing of this forum over the past few months that the majority of you have grave concerns regarding 9/11 and its consequences.

Good luck.

Niall, Northern Ireland

Show "the reason fetzer keeps" by RANDKILLER2007 (not verified)

Nice try. I'd be interested

Nice try.

I'd be interested in knowing who you guys work for. What's the salary like for a forum disinformationist these days?

Show "ITS A BEAUTIFUL" by RANDKILLER2007 (not verified)

Fair and Balanced

Fair and Balanced
Wow. It sure seemed like Steven E. Jones didn't have a lot of time to fairly convey his points. That felt just a little like a Fox news interview. I believe that we ONLY need to prove the controlled demolition of building 7.

I believe we only need to be able to prove COMPLICITY. Controlled demolition is sufficient to prove guilt. I feel that extra speculation only devalidates our cause, since we all agree that building 7 was demolished... it's time to stop theories until there is a trial. Then with subpeonas, questioning, and the due process of law can we begin to explore the "whole truth." It's time for action now.

It sounded like Jim Fetzer was advocating COMPLETE pulverization. That was not the case, as Steven Jones says. And just as he talks about in his lecture, if a scientist were writing a paper in which he asserts there are no two snowflakes that are alike, and two identical snowflakes land next to him and he destroys one, this is unethical. (Sorry if the paraphrasing was wrong here)

"More 9/11 bone fragments found"
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2006/04/more_wtc_bone_f.html

39 bones found in search for 9/11 remains
http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/39-bones-found-in-search-for-911-rem...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16594983/
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1766339/posts

That being said, I appreciate both of your efforts, but we must excercise EXTREME caution. This issue is very sensitive, and there is no need to over-argue our point. All we need is enough to prove in a court of law.

Good luck, and good night.
-----------------------------------------

Paul A LaViolette ? Mysticism?
To go to the Sphinx Stargate zodiac cryptogram, press here. - This is the guy that Jim Fetzer speaks of.
http://www.etheric.com/LaViolette/LaViolette.html

Let's catch the ball before we run with it folks. Common mistake made by wide receivers. You can't gain yards unless you catch the ball first. If we can prove thermate... do we not have a murder weapon?

Shouldn't the next question logically be "who had access to the murder weapon?" or "who aqcuired the appropriate amount of the substance to be able to achieve such a task?" We should get this trial going and then find out... who was running around with 4,000 lbs of thermate.

That is the question. The question that's rightful answer is due in the court of law.

Show "Cut it out!!" by Quest (not verified)
Show "Steve Jones is full of shit, by George!" by Anonymous (not verified)
Show "thats true---steven jones is" by RANDKILLER2007 (not verified)

Fetzer is mad

Fetzer is mad, that is all that needs to be said about him.

Anyone else notice that whenever there is any posting mentioning Steven Jones, the lurkers and trolls come out in full force? It's curious the amount of support and contributions that these lurkers make to any other topic of 9/11 truth, such as the dying rescue workers or the victims themselves: 0. It should be abundantly clear to anyone with half a brain what is going on here.

Keep up the good work, Steven.

Show "oh yeah....anyone that calls" by RANDKILLER2007 (not verified)

Call him out on what

Call him out on what exactly?

Show "I called him out for not following academic standards" by Ningen (not verified)
Show "israel is the only country" by RANDKILLER2007 (not verified)

Curious

Hi RAND,

I'm just curious as to why you oppose Steven Jones? What is wrong with his hypothesis?

Show "damn i wrote a long one then" by RANDKILLER2007 (not verified)
Show "CHECK THIS OUT---- I PASTED" by RANDKILLER2007 (not verified)
Show "also---the illnesses of wtc" by RANDKILLER2007 (not verified)

radiation...

approx. 20,000 smoke/fire detectors in the towers.
Each contained radioactive material.
When they are reduced to dust, radioactive material can easily be ingested.

Really doesn't take a quantum physicist to work that out.

Show "HA HA--YALL ARE BITCHES" by RANDKILLER2007 (not verified)

Why ?

Why do you insist on name calling as if this is some school yard game. I don't know if your trying to inform anyone or just looking for some attention.

Show "i challenge any of you" by RANDKILLER2007 (not verified)

I challenge you to stop posting

garbage on 9/11 blogger.

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

Show "you cant beat the" by RANDKILLER2007 (not verified)
Show "i;m waiting for you to" by RANDKILLER2007 (not verified)

COURAGE.COM...

...it's not all this lad has loads of...

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Show "Fetzer, Wood, Reynolds," by Anonymous (not verified)

This audio finally cemented

This audio finally cemented my view of Fetzer. Until this time I though he might have been misguided but honest. Now, he is either a complete egomaniac/asshole or an agent of influence. I don't know which and frankly I don't care. I've seen the camps; I've seen the police state; I've seen the push to start WWIII; most importantly, I've seen the grief in the families and the suffering of the first responders. Fetzer and Wood hurt all of our efforts to expose the truth and genuinely put each of us at terrible risk by increasing the barrier for others to get involved in a way similar to if a vocal faction said Bigfoot did it.

I've met about a hundred "Truthers" in grass roots work and I've never met anyone who believes the no plane, energy beam, space weapons crap. So how do we deal with the people talking about that? I say we just ignore them. If they're being honest, perhaps they will wise up; if they're agents then they completely lose their effect. When someone posts on here about that stuff, don't reply. The comment will be compressed shortly (thanks mods) and we don't have to act like monkeys throwing poop.

I like the "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice" site and concept. This issue seems to be resolving itself. The harder Fetzer and Wood push it, the more marginalized they will be. In the short term they will have a few jackasses posting on boards and in the longterm they will be a footnote in history. Fetzer is playing games, the rest of us aren't (or at least shouldn't be) so we might as well let him go play with himself.

You know how some people say

You know how some people say we're all "conspiracy nuts"? Well, Fetzer actually is one.

Show "You are making a mistake if you drive me out" by Ningen (not verified)

"The Dynamic Duo"

I grow increasingly skeptical of Kevin Barrett's continued affiliation with Fetzer. I like Barrett - I think he has a good message and his essay "Truth Revolution" is one of my favorites. However, at this point he's basically lending credibility to someone who has shown himself to not have the best interests of the movement at heart. To continue to do so - regardless of whatever good intentions might be involved - is harmful. The "come to your senses" train is leaving the station, Kevin - all aboard!

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

Crucial point YT

I really want to trust Mr B as well, however.

MSM always make a big deal about the fact he's a Muslim. Also, the truth "Jihad" association turns people off his entirely credible argument in a - no damn Muslim's gonna tell me how it is - fashion.

I hear that train a-comin.

All Aboard... Tickets Please !!!

If Kevin can listen to that supposed interview and not see a serious problem, then what else can he expect us to think.

2007 - The year to say no more BS !!!

Good Luck All

On Kevin Barrett and MUJCA.com

On Kevin Barrett and MUJCA.com . . . a Fetzer supporter

The website MUJCA calls itself the "Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth: a group of scholars, religious leaders and activists dedicated to uniting members of the Jewish, Christian and Islamic faiths in pursuit of 9/11 truth." MUJCA.com initially trumpeted its existence by associating itself with the April 2005 lecture by David Griffin delivered in Madison, "9/11 and the American Empire: How Should Religious People Respond?."

But MUJCA.com is apparently entirely the work Kevin Barrett, and it's not clear what, if any, Muslims, Jews, or Christians it represents. *****Barrett defends the Holocaust deniers like David Irving, Ernst Zundel, and Germar Rudolf, saying things like "But even if we accept [the Jews'] self-serving stories and invisible body counts, it's still outrageous that the Jews and their lackeys deliberately ignore all the non-Jewish fatalities in Hitler's "death camps". Mark Robinowitz has documented conversations with Kevin Barrett on Holocaust denial.
http://www.oilempire.us/holocaust-denial.html#mujca

Thanks.

I'm clearer now.

This "interview" of Steven

This "interview" of Steven Jones is just fascinating. Fetzer's disruptive, disrespectful, and irrational world salad is either designed to muddy the water and confuse people about what Jones is saying or is merely the product of some strange social dysfunction. The only reason I have any doubt that Fetzer is purposefully spreading disinformation is because his actions are so unsubtle that I have to wonder if a real disinfo agent would be so blatant and absurd.

"The only reason I have any

"The only reason I have any doubt that Fetzer is purposefully spreading disinformation is because his actions are so unsubtle that I have to wonder if a real disinfo agent would be so blatant and absurd."

Maybe that's his point though. If anyone NEW to the 9/11 movement took a look at him, they might be prone to say "these people are fucking lunatics". I have a feeling this guy knows what he's doing. I'm just amazed at his acting skills during last summer's conference in LA. He had me so completely fooled. He's toast. Our movement continues on.
Barrett, 2nd call...the train's about to head out.

Show "it;s called damage" by RANDKILLER2007 (not verified)

There are two essays about

There are two essays about Fetzer written almost a year ago, The Company We Keep, and also one by the guy who runs 9/11 Research site. They both critically analyzed his writings and showed how good arguments were sprinkled with awful ones. I've listened to Fetzer's appearances, and the same thing. Fetzer lost credibility with me more than 7 months ago. I am glad he has now gone so over the top that everybody can see what he does in regards to helping to gain or lose credibility of skeptics of the official version.

Fetzer is a fraud and a skunk.

As far I'm concerned. Fetzer should be considered persona non grata in the 911 truth movement.

He has been an embarrassment for a long time now. He is probably even an agent provocateur.

I don't understand why Steven Jones bother?

I was surprised S. Jones

I was surprised S. Jones accepted the invite onto Fetzer's show, but after heraing that show, I'm glad he was on because Fetzer was so over the top that anybody listening to that show can see what Fetzer is doing quite clearly. The mask is off.

Show "Jones' Orwellian doublethink: "supercoarse" powder isn't powder!" by Anonymous (not verified)

I'm tired...

Of seeing Jim Kenobi's name. He doesn't deserve whatever attention he's getting.


"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

My take on this interview and this thread

I don't believe it does the movement any good to bad mouth other researchers.
Disagree with others, sure!
Prove someone wrong, absolutely!

As to whether Fetzer is wrong, then prove him wrong!
I don't think it's worth our time to say he is purposefully promoting disinfo.
All aspects of the truth are consistent.
If Fetzer's theories have little or no merit then they should be able to be proven false.
Calling him names does little good....

Clearly though, Fezter tries to bully Steve Jones into accepting the validity of his argument - that thermate cannot account for all the destruction at the WTC site - but comes out looking like an idiot, since he constantly talks over and interrupts Jones.

Key points:

Fetzer believes that thermate cannot provide both steel cutting AND concrete pulverizing energy. Jones counters that super thermate IS explosive and could have been use in conjunction with steel cutting thermate.

Fetzer doesn't believe that the potential energy in the twin towers (with explosives) can account for the destruction seen in buildings 3,4, 5, and 6. Jones counters that thermate and/or super thermate could have been placed in those buildings too.

-----------------------------------------

All aspects of the truth are consistent

Show "Voice Of Reason" by 911TruthNC

Some main points, beyond the

Some main points, beyond the scientific arguments, to be noted on that audio clip:
1. Fetzer goes on and on for a long time before bringing Jones in to speak.
2. Fetzer constantly interrupts Jones in the middile of his responses to questions, usually before Jones can complete any coherent response.
3. Fetzer then turns down the mike right while Jones is speaking, and speaks over Jones in a volume much higher since Fetzer holds the volume controls.
4. Fetzer throws in at least one low ad hominem insult to Jones on the show.
5. Fetzer controls the interview by not allowing Jones to come up with his own topics; Fetzer just keeps throwing questions at him that fit Fetzer's agenda.
6. Jones asks for him to be allowed to answer a question before being interrupted, and Fetzer does not really respond in any normal fashion, but instead says that Fetzer has lots of questions for Jones.
7. Total air time: Fetzer probably about 75% to 80%, Jones about 20%.
8. This is not the right way to treat a "guest." This was more like a Fox News hit piece than a program hosted by a 9/11 truther.

Everyone who is still giving Fetzer a pass who has not listened to this needs to listen to this clip.

Show "Fetzer gave Jones too much respect maybe?" by Anonymous (not verified)

No

You can't invite someone on your show and not let them speak. Sure, ask them tough questions, but you have to them answer in full. The ratio should have been reversed--80% Jones, 20% Fetzer.The best criticisms are in writing anyway, where both sides can be evaluated and checked. Fetzer could do that later.

Fetzer.... The Trojan Horse's Ass....repost

I believe that the goal of this film is to expose and discredit those inside the 9/11 Truth Movement who may be infiltraitors... people who are spreading these contraversial and unprovable theories....... people who are speaking of things that only divide the supporters and scare off those seeking answers.

am I right???

a film to show them in a light which seperates their beliefs from ours

I believe that if Fetzer was a smart man these theories would be the furthest from the frontlines of this movement... he is supposed to ber moving us forward but instead he leads us in circles which have no ends..... He started the site which was there to give this movement credibility...... yet he discredits us further.

YOu know that the easiest way to destroy a movement is to let it gain credibility.... then just as it's nearing a point where momentum is gained..... someone does something to completely discredit the movement...... this will strike a deep blow... which will criple if not destroy it all together....

You think these people are not thinking one step ahead of us on this? This has all been done before. These people may not be all that smart... but they surround themselves with those who are..... like Kissenger..... He's playing them as they're playing us.

What did Fetzer teach? Mind Control / Propoganda / Etc.... I forget the exact description...... to be able to teach these subjects... you need to know them inside and out.... both sides of the coin.... I'm guessing that the people who took his course..... did not take it to learn how to epose how these techniques are being used.... they took it to learn how to use these techniques.

Where did he get his beginnings? Recieves honors and leadership awards in college then goes into the Marines? Becomes captain...Then teaches at the University of Virginia.

Wasn't he the first to get into the MSM?... Doesn't he always get the best opportunities to influence investigation and thought on the subject? Why?

Di I think Jim Fetzer is a plant? ... I do.... the man has no sense of restraint or common sense... latching onto theories which he can only speculate.....regurgitating it before she had even written a paper......leaving him on my questionable list...... not somone I trust to carry the name of Truth.

Infiltration was a task that would require more than one plant.... a theory can not truely destroy a movement without a second and a third at the very least...... every suggestion needs a "Here...Here"..... Renolds #1..... Fetzer #2..... Wood #3..... they all gain credibility then all latch onto a theory that has some evidence that some advanced technology does exist... or is made to look like it exists..... a theory that is out there just enough to make people question the validity of those theories.... then question the people.... then question the movement that those people represent.

The people sticking their noses into the blogs and propogating these theories are merely icing on the cake... trying to further divide us... as well as being here just in case someone researching decides to browse this site for information... because there are new people every day discovering the truth. We are having an effect... and it is noticable....they thought this would break us.... but it was merely a speedbump in the path of out juggernaut...and now they are trying their damndest to suppress our momentum

If this film is not exposing these people for who they are..... then there needs to be a film which does

as well as the treatment that our movement recieves when we do get MSM coverage... showing the footage they refuse to show

Show "Name calling" by solar roller

Havn't you got it yet?

Fetzer is OUT.

"Dealing with specific issues"?

Like mini-nukes and star war beams?

This is the main reason Fetzer is OUT. These exotic speculations don't belong in a serious investigation.

The 911 truth movement cannot afford it. End of discussion.

Show "Exotic Speculations" by solar roller

"As for directed energy

"As for directed energy weapons, yes Fetzer has hypothesized and he certainly hasn't convinced me, but is is a friggin hypothesis!
If it has no merit, then convice us all !"

It has no merit: http://www.journalof911studies.com/letters/Gourley5JAN07.pdf

"Fetzer is OUT."

Out of what? Says who? Why are we even having this discussion?

Says Luke Skywalker.

Uncle Fetz is Darth Vader and he has a secret evil beam weapon.

Beam me up, Scotty! (or was that the other script...)

Fetzer... Trojan Horse

That was my post.....

Fetzer is an obvious plant.... originally when he came to the front of this movement..... I thought that his qualifications would be optimal to helping people understand how they are being manipulated...... but I now know that his expertise is being used to manipulate this movement.

He came in when this movement was beginning to get real notice and he planted his roots,,,, being aided by those who wanted the disruption in the movement. He was put to the front lines.... getting MSM coverage..... starting the Scholars Group.... Being invited to the Press Club.

It's really very interesting if you step back and objectively look at the timing of his arrival.... Loose Change was really getting it's due... amongst other films..... many others like Kevin Ryan were coming forward.... It was really starting to get deep.... I remember how the Scholars Group really looked like it was going to help this movement get credibility.... and it did.

But that's what it was supposed to do..... Fetzer was put in to help this along.... gain some credibility..... then when it really got going..... people began to listen... people began frequenting the Scholars site..... KAZAAAAM!..... magically..... the whole movement gets the kybosh when the people who were put there to lead suddenly adopt a theory that the public is not only going to not believe.... but not believe it to the point of shutting this whole movement down.

When something like "Space Beams" comes from the one person that has been thrust into the forefront.... people will question the validity of all the arguments.

People will put those blinders right back on.

This is the Art of War at it's finest....

Infiltrate.... Gain Credibility..... Lead..... Divert into Oblivion

and it only helps to have two tother "credible" people backing you.

Consider how fickle the average American is..... they simply need one excuse to raise their white flag

Very Good post

...but what film are you referring to?

i share your sentiments.

i keep noticing that there is a split among those whom i consider credible and respectible activists in this movement. There are those - like us - who feel that we should pull no punches in exposing this nexus of disinformation artists. But - there are also those (who i respect) that are claiming that it does more harm than good to accuse people of being disinformation agents. some go as far as to call for "unity."

does anyone really believe that "unity" is possible with this particular group? is it even DESIRABE to have unity with people who are discrediting this movement with junk science?

does ignoring the problem work?

i am personally of the belief that we should focus as MUCH light as possible on these individuals. we can stand their propaganda on its head.

There is no sense in

There is no sense in desiring "unity" with any individual who is obviously acting to discredit our common cause. And none of us should be above being criticized for our actions.

Also, the more you are placed in a position of power and trust, the more you need to be accountable.

If you are doing lots of mainstream media appearances, including Fox TV and other TV shows, you need to be held accountable, and we have every right to comment on every aspect of the appearance. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Reply

I was refering originally to the film the John Albanese was working on.... "Disinformation in an Age of Information"

We need to expose Media bias and other tactics being used to discredit this movement

If I get time this weekend I may use it to do a more complete breakdown of Fetzer..... maybe with a Timeline of Betrayal

"Timeline of Betrayal"

That sounds like more than a weekend's worth of work, JJ!
Still, I look forward to you "magnificent octopus".(ask if you don't get reference)

BTW-how was JREF? After two tries I gave up on registration--for now--they want the IP of the computer you're using to match the geographical location of what you tell them your home is. Do these people never travel? Otherwise, they're concerned you might be in Nigeria spamming them. I kid thee not. I have NEVER encountered this on ANY other site open to the public.

Oh well; at least I didn't waste my life with the wankers...

Impeachment. Accountability. A better world.

Disinformation

I'm not going to sit on my ass and wait for the next issue of Popular Mechanics to debunk the Space Beam theory.

If we don't do it, they will do it for us.

And slander the entire 9/11 truth movement in the process.

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

Exactly

And your efforts are greatly appreciated - thank you

The Eleventh Day of Every Month

911blogger = Chertoff minions

Thanks for admitting your loyalties lie with the Chertoff/McCain Liars' Club and not 9/11 Truth.

Jim Putzer

I heard fetzer a couple of months ago before he went off on the space beams, and he sounded semi intelligent and was a good interview. WHAT HAPPENED??? Now he is worse than Loofah O'Reilly on the spinner zone.

This guy is obvious disinfo and we all need to shun him. I am embarrassed for the real truthers out here. we need to just end this guys 15 minutes of fame. what radio station puts on this kind of garbage??? he sounds like a chertoff/pop mechanics shill. time for Putzer's exit. Ba Bye fattie.

http://RatTube.com/blog1/

A DOCUMENTARY needs to be

A DOCUMENTARY needs to be FILMED where LEFT GATEKEEPERS are EXPOSED. This documentary needs to be at the forefront even to where LooseChange is.

This Documentary needs to discuss ALL features of ALL KINDS of disinformation tactics: Left Gatekeepers AND infiltrators alike.

This future Documentary is utterly necessary. It needs to cover everyone from Noam Chomsky and Amy Goodman all the way to Jim Fetzer and Mike Ruppert (although Ruppert's case remains arguable at this point, I believe).

To stress, we need a 2-hour film (or thereabouts) that ZEROS-IN-ON this phenomenon of infiltrators, provocateurs, and gatekeepers. And IF James Fetzer IS indeed a government operative, he needs to be exposed and held just as accountable as Richard Cheney, himself...as an "accessory to the crime of 9/11/01".

Once this film has gained traction, we need to extend our oppostion to the CORPORATE-MAINSTREAM media.

Lights...camera............................INFORMATION WARFARE!

"STARWARS: SpaceBeams" featuring “Fetzer the Hutt”

LMAO... with Very Special Guest... Ja Ja Judy Wood

The Dark Lord Sith Reynolds joins us in the 2nd hour...

LOL, that's better than my one;

The dark lord of disinfo;

This is crap

This is not a game.

Fetzer: "a Kinder, Gentler O'Reilly"

but not by much.

Anybody...

Remember this?

Kevin Barrett Destroys Sean Hannity, Hannity Mutes To "Win"


"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."

— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002

Message to Kevin Barrett, GCN Radio:

If Agent Fetzer's absurd performance in this interview didn't lay his cointelpro divide/conquer game bare, you're being willfully blind, and *part of the problem*.

Kevin, GCN: Cut agent Fetzer off like a bad habit already. When he came onto the scene a year or so ago, in interviews he'd drone on ad nausium about the virtues of liberalism; evoking the whole left/right/divide/conquer memetic programming paradigm; and turning off half of listeners in the process... BY DESIGN.

If he's in legal control of ST911, then all real truth seekers should abandon ST911, and let the whole ST911 cointelpro front organization dry up and blow away with due haste. As long as the Three Stooges control ST911, with their laughably divisive/transparent MO, ST911 is a turd in the punchbowl of 911 Truth.

On Kevin Barrett . . . a Fetzer supporter

On Kevin Barrett . . . a Fetzer supporter

Barrett defends the Holocaust deniers like David Irving, Ernst Zundel, and Germar Rudolf, saying things like "But even if we accept [the Jews'] self-serving stories and invisible body counts, it's still outrageous that the Jews and their lackeys deliberately ignore all the non-Jewish fatalities in Hitler's "death camps". Mark Robinowitz has documented conversations with Kevin Barrett on Holocaust denial.
http://www.oilempire.us/holocaust-denial.html#mujca

Holocaust "DENIAL"

Holocaust "DENIAL" is one of the more idiotic memes they've engineered to smear holocaust truth seekers/ revisionists who, just like 911 truth seeker/ revisionists-- are sticklers for the EVIDENCE, both physical and circumstantial.

Like calling 911 Truth Seekers, 911 deniers.

But alas the Zionists have vital interests to defend in their Holocaust Industry with its accompanying "Jews as the earth's chosen victims" memeplex; so their stooping to the use of such hollow, intelligence-insulting smears as "holocaust DENIER" towards those who dare ask questions, is understandable.

http://normanfinkelstein.com

Norman Finkelstein is

Norman Finkelstein is neither a holocaust denier nor revisionist. His parents were survivors from the camps and he in no way questions the reality that 6 million were systematically executed by the Nazis.

Nobody with half a brain who

Nobody with half a brain who has looked at the facts believes the 6 million story any more. It is simple WW2 atrocity propaganda.

To publicly state this is connected with certain risks. Many have been convicted and are in jail for holocaust denial in Europe.

PS: This site and this thread is not about the holocaust, so this will be my only post on this topic.

If what you say is true then

If what you say is true then that means that Norman Finkelstein doesn't have a half a brain because he doesn't doubt that between 5-6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust.

PS Holocaust deniers are either misinfo or disinfo.

Holocaust Industry's latest shakedown,

Sling the monkey poo all you like...

... yet I can not make a solid claim either way towards any of the highly popular speculations about Fetzer The Hut's mind blowing behavior these past many months. His bellicose hostility, his fawning championship of Judy "The Efflorescent Herbaceous Neologism" Wood, his rib separating jabs at Steven "Dang-it" Jones, nor his repulsive fracturing of Scholars (now held in trust as I understand by a patriot questioning 911, Fred Burks, formerly with The Department of State).

Yet it matters NOT, where along the spectrum your sympathies of either heart and/or intellect are drawn between the possibilities of prosaic Thermite, all the way to crazy Space Beams. These two men, combined, offer the truth movement a demonstrable example of the other spectrum, the spectrum of possible behaviors, which non-the-less continues to drive, persuade, challenge, raise the bar, and exhibit the polar opposites of personalities which DO inhabit the full truth movement.

Steven "Milk Toast" Jones... (The normally soft spoken, disciplined, punctilious scientists, with a bend over backwards politeness used in most all occasions.)

vs.

Jim "Angle Grinder" Fetzer... (A man fully demonstrating the stupefying behavior more often seen and attributed to the likes and ideologies of O'Really and Auto-Copulating-Hand-Job Hannity.)

At the last, of so many interruptions, crosstalk and talk-over on the part of Fetzer... without forgetting, that Jim still has his hand on the mic volume knob at the ready to mute Steve... we hear the vary last part of this astonishing audio drama between Gosh-darn-it Steve vs. Fetzer The Impaler:

(after almost an hour of the Cuisinart-ing of Steven Jones... we get this finale):

Steve: "... I can answer your question... IF YOU'LL LET ME ANSWER IT!"

Jim: "Please"

Steve: " All you have to do... is establish that a crime was committed. You do that with hard physical evidence. Then, you proceed to the trial. We're NOT playing a game here... of how many men, and how many trips... we're playing... a very serious scientific study to get to an investigation. It's forensics, that we're trying to do here.

We want an investigation. We want justice. It's a... We want to support those families who lost their loved ones in those towers. We do that by establishing that there is clear evidence of a crime. We do that by looking for the residues, and we're finding it.

That's the key."

Jim: "And I couldn't agree with you more, that we have been able to disprove the government's account on virtually every significant point that it has made. And anyone who wants to pursue this, is welcome to visit 911Scholars.org/. Just go to (garbled) 911 at the top, visit the 'beginners start here' section.

I just want to emphasize that what Steven and I have been talking about, is a far more difficult and challenging task, trying to figure out what actually happened on 911 when we know what did not happen. What we know DID NOT happen, is that these buildings were brought down by the combined impact of aircraft crashes, fire balls burning up most of the jet fuel, these very modest jet fuel fires, the weakening or the melting of steel in a pancake collapse.

We're completely in agreement, that the government's account is complete and utter [total, absolute] intellectual rubbish!

And Steve, for coming on today I want to thank you so very much... "

Steve: "Ok, Jim..."

Jim: "... and uh, uh... I, I, I welcome that we're listening to... "

Steve: ".. and thank you, my pleasure."

Jim: "... to a full range of alternative hypotheses in relation to the complete Explanandum. And I just uh, you know, hope that everyone will take a good look at the evidence. Go to 911Scholars.org, OR the alternative site, and take a look at for example; the video there that is a survey of the massive destruction. Including the toasted cars, that partial damage to the mass, and what seem to be the disappearance* of most of the mass of these huge gigantic buildings. The amount of time in which they came down. The fact the wrong building fell first, because the steel is thinner at the 96th floor than it it is at the 80th. The fires burned more intensely and longer in the North Tower than they did in the South [Tower]. And because the plane hit the middle of the building, it surly had to cut more core columns than would be true in the South Tower where the plane hit the corner, it might have cut as few as one. All those reasons show devastating evidence against the government's official account, we can all join in agreement..."

Announcer: "Hi, Ted Anderson here. I'm happy to... blah blah blah..."

End of Show.

*For those who just might be willing to still give Fetzer The Hut the benifit of any possible doubt... try thinking of the absudidty of "Space Beams" as a metaphor, for the undeniable destruction of, and tampering with, Evidence. If you think Space Beams are absurd, redirect your indignation of Jim and Judy's Crazy Idea, towards the absolutely absurd perpetration by government (in the course of covering up the greatest crime of two centuries) of trucking off by monitored GPS, ocean dump-able barges, land-fills, over-seas smelting... and so forth... trying to be rid of the evidence which may yet hang them high on the National Mall.

Until this hell-bound government produces the evidence needed to support their intellectually defunct narrative about Endless Hordes of Swarthy Freedom Haters wishing to Tin Dart and Lamp Oil us to death.... countering with "You Fuckers could have done it yourself with Space Beams so that you could line your pockets with War Profits earned by setting the world a-fire with your false flag ops and mind bending propganda, ya fuckers"... makes a bit of sense, in the senseless world these bastards have built for the sake of mammon.

Get indignant about Space Beams... then get indignant about a government that may-as-well-have used "Space Beams" to destroy the evidence which leads to the state sponsored terrorism of 9/11.

Conventional exothermic (dynamite-like) explosive incendiaries leaving tell-tail residues with prosaic terrestrial origins, appear to have been used in some part of the destruction seen on September the Eleventh, 2001. If the Evil Hate Machine ALSO tried out some of their fancier equipment (developed with part of that 2.3 TRILLION missing Pentagon dollars)... we may never know.

But the government has failed in presenting a case that 19 Swarthiers "did it alone", at the very same time we've got a solid counter case that the destruction seen that day required something looking a hell of a lot more like inside knowledge, to plant things that go boom, before hand, and the destruction of evidence which the Swarthiers could NEVER have pulled off.

Get mad at Fetzer all you like... then get mad as hell and focus your anger (for survival) like a beam from space... at the United States Government of War.

If Fetzer's Means do not justify his Ends... AT LEAST he is not suggesting killing people with either.

"The truth shall make you free." Why not make the truth free? We live on a priceless blue pearl, awash in a universe of fire and ice. Cut the crap.

Show "Nice Try" by dave mann

The dynamic duo, BRU HA HA HA HA HA


Fetzer: Exotic Star-wars Weapons and Conventional explosives were used to demolish the WTC towers
Jones: Conventional explosives were used to demolish the WTC towers, does not exclude unconventional weapons, but does exclude Mini-Nukes

Fetzer for fear of Jones good arguments interrupts and sabotages Jones repeatedly. However the whole exchange is revealing and a variety of ways.

Listen to it yourself (edited shorter version): http://www.coffinman.co.uk/fetzer_v_jones.mp3

This must be one of the most bizarre conversations ever. Two educated people agree that their secret government has by exploding the towers mass-murdered thousands of innocents. But instead of discussing what to do next, engage in a squabble about the type of weapon used, like two babies fighting for a toy. A really demoralising experience.

Of course, what they needed to do is to reinforce each other's proofs of the demolition of the towers, then quickly move on to discussiong WHAT CAN BE DONE. ... If they were co-operative ....

Taking the squabble seriously, many questions remain:

  • How much ultra-fine dust from how much explosive energy?
  • "Toasted cars" and "exploding cars" be explained by conventional explosives?
  • Was Jones' comment at 19m11s a giveaway? Why would he volunteer to have not been "involved with the event" (development) of high-tech star-wars weapons?
  • What are clean nukes? Are there beam weapons? What about Israel's weird weapons used in Lebanon?
  • Why is nobody debating/agreeing with Kevin Ryan? (who must be the crown-witness)
  • If the USA is the 'home of the conspiracy theorist' why is there no "conspiracy channel" on TV?

I get ever more suspicious of Jim Fetzer and his willingness to believe in fantasies. The book he mentioned: Decoding the Message of the Pulsars: Intelligent Communication from the Galaxy Paperback@amazon
by Paul A. LaViolette
is difficult to take serioiusly. Any comments on this?

Boys and Girls... it would be an easy thing to do what Hill & Knowlton did to to further the first US-Iraq massacre in 1991!.:
Do a congressional Caucus and sink the hook into the people of the USA, namely that "911 was good for business in that it rescued the US Dollar, it had to be done" (Dollars in circulation? equal a sum several times more than the total sum of physical assets and services available in the entire planet.)

Yes, I propose a REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY hearing:

  • for "common" folk it is reverse.. why sacrifice thousands of lives?
  • for sophisticated rationalists it is literally true.

This will heat the temper enough to force this atrocity out into the disinfectant sunlight.

Remember, Hitler was rational and efficient... and everything was legal. Sophie Scholl and her brother Hans made the mistake of trying to convince the germans by debate. What they, and the modern US-americans and the Fetzer/Jones babies do not realize is that that the debate is framed. There is no escape, unless we cancel-out frame with another self-contradictory anti-frame.... hence reverse psychology. If executed with skill it works great with children ;-)

Steven Jones and Jim Fetzer interview: an analysis

Steven Jones and Jim Fetzer interview: an analysis

Issues regarding the scientific method, thermite and alternative theories

Jim Fetzer asks many questions. He asks so many that he doesn’t even let Jones finish his answers. Nearing the end of the interview, Steven Jones’ voice reveals his increasing frustration with Fetzer for not letting him speak. It gives the impression that Fetzer is not interested in hearing his responses. This tactic could give the impression that Jones does not have any answers to all of his questions. Unfortunately we do not know, because he was not given the opportunity to answer them.

The scientific method is discussed along with the new letters published in the Journal of 9/11 studies.

A central issue discussed in the interview is the role of evidence and how it used to arrive at theories. Steven Jones indicates that he does not agree with the alternative theories supported by Fetzer because their data is not complete or reliable. He gives several compelling examples to support this assertion in the course of the interview (i.e. superfine dust vs. course dust, the WTC bathtub, etc). He repeatedly shows that the theories supported by Fetzer are not supported by the complete data. He indicates that the star wars beam theory does not explain the sulfidation of steel.

Thermite is discussed. Steven Jones maintains a controlled demolition hypothesis.

Q: “are you suggesting both [thermate/superthermite] were used in the Twin Towers?

A: “I’m suggesting that’s possible along with other explosives

[1]

Fetzer repeatedly ignores this statement as have others. He continuously implies that Jones is maintaining a thermite only hypothesis. This is a straw-man fallacy and was also pursued by Judy Wood and Morgan Reynolds in their “Scientific method applied to the thermite hypothesis”.

Fetzer argues that thermate could not entirely explain the destruction of the World Trade Center Buildings. Steven Jones disagrees by indicating that other explosives in combination (i.e. RDX, etc) with thermite as well as superthermite would be enough to explain the destruction of the towers. Superthermite however, is not discussed in his paper on the subject.

The end of the interview starts to upset Jones. He is clearly frustrated with the questioning of Fetzer. He makes a solid point:

It doesn’t matter if [Jones] can’t prove how many people were used to plant the thermite. It matters that there was thermite. Thermite proves that 9/11 was an inside job.

Debate over the details about how it got there are not the point of the 9/11 truth movement. Another investigation will answer this relevant question. It is not Jones’ responsibility to answer it. He has the physical proof. Nothing else is needed.

“We demand an investigation. That’s what we’re after. We don’t have to answer all of the questions: social security number, the people who went in there [referencing the “thermite hypothesis" essay by Wood and Reynolds which asks this bizarre question].”

“We don’t have to answer that.”

However, Fetzer continues this line of questioning further angering Jones

“That’s all we need. Jim this is not a game. All you have to do is establish that a crime was committed with hard physical evidence, then you proceed to the trial. We’re not playing a game here… How many men… and how many trips… this is a very serious scientific study to get to an investigation—it’s forensics that we are trying to do here.”

“We want an investigation. We want justice. We want to support those families who lost their loved ones.”

“We do that by establishing that there is clear evidence of a crime. We do that by looking for the residues, and we are finding it. That’s the key.”

Fetzer concludes the interview by returning to the issue of “what did and did not happen”. It is in stark contrast to the powerfully spoken words by Jones. He wants Justice--Not debates.


[1]

83:00 mark and forward

“We're an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."

Interview of Steven Jones by Jim Fetzer

I just have to say, Jim is off the hook, rude in this interview. Dr. Steve Jones is a good scientist.
Alfons v911t
http://www.v911t.org/

Alfons I am shocked at you.

Fetzer is all wrong because he is rude?? Wow you have that man not ever show anger mentality.
I would be pissed and emotional too if Jones gang took over my site when another scientific solution the to mess was brought out in the open. you don't have to like the personalites just the science. even you stated on your radio show that the steel was vaporized. if you look at the patents for thermite weapons no way that could have been done by thermaite excusively. go study some patents all of you. they are pretty easy to find.
i will go where the film footage and the science takes me and it is not Fred burks and Jones . the attack mode from them didn't start until that science was brought out into the open which many of us had been talking about for years.
i suggest that people go to Google patents and look at the patents. and we know one inparticular is assigned to the doe. who in fact Jones was a part of and the scientist in on a certain patent was in fact from Laos alamos liver more lab. Qui bono people!

first they ignore you , and they have for years on this. then they laugh at you and that has happned. and then they fight you and they have fought us on the exotic weapons and the TV fakery.

here is a old OSS document that some of you might find interesting. oss was before it was named the CIA.

Motion picture!!!!!!!
http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/oss/motionpicturedraft.htm ( brought you 911 via TV)
thousands of docs
http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/archivesindex.htm work in progress

Newly Declassified OSS Records

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2000/06/nara062600.html

Thermite

Thermite / Thermate can vaporize steel.... very easily

A thermite / thermate reaction can produce temperatures between 6,000 and 12,000 degrees!!!

Steel evaporates or vaporizes at just over 5,000 degrees

these patents my not state this or be designed to do this... but it is very possible.... especially from high grade thermite which would consist of atomized components which allows for an ultra efficient reaction.
___________________
Ignorance is NOT Bliss

Thermaite

Pray tell how many tons of nano thermite to rid the scene of beams and to make that cloud of dust? we know how regular thermite burns care to tell us what would be the visual on nano thermite?

Get Straight

There was a combination of Thermite and Explosives.

I believe the thermite was used to severely weaken the structure so that less explosives would be required.

the thermite was most likely primarily used in the upper floors where the reaction would appear to be fire or would be concealed by the fire.

It was probably also used on the core columns to weaken the massive structural elements... this would be very hard to detect as well becuase the angle of sight through the windows would have obstructed the inner part of the structure

once the structure began to fall the explosions would be concealed from sight and sound by the dust cloud and sounds of what was deamed that of falling debris
dust which was initially created by a series of massive explosions at the beginning of the collapse to help create that visual screen.... thus the huge mushrooming top.

Show me again where a directed energy weapon was used to destroy anything besides a missile.... which could have been detonated on command
___________________
Ignorance is NOT Bliss

Go study

forget all you have learned so far. then first go back and research Nikola Tesla. learn what he knew and when.

some of the advanced weather weapons, mind control weapons, em weapons telsa weapons, etc. then look at the NOAA photos with the holes.

Study all the photos and the type of destruction and the clouds. and compare explosive ordnance with the other weapons.
come back with your conclusions. OH and BTw it will take you months to study all of this. so posting another post in a day you will not get a response from me. take the journey. have a great day.

my edit. on second thought. it might take you years. depends on how dedicated you are to finding the truth.