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David Shayler's "Sky News" Gig
Former MI5 officer David Shayler was on Rupert Murdoch's UK-based Sky News cable television channel for a solid 1/2 hour on the evening of Tuesday, December 7th, 2006. (Video links here, and here.)
I want to thank Shayler for hijacking the opinion segment that he was featured in, which was supposed to be largely about the assassination of Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko via polonium poisoning.
British and US media have been in an awful hurry to blame Putin for the assassination, but frankly, anyone with the dough can get a toxic quantity of polonium together, quite legally.
So, Shayler was definitely on-track when he insinuates that Litvinenko was more than likely taken out not by a vindictive FSB, but by agents friendly to the Western oligarchical elite, intent on silencing False Flag whistleblowers, and especially ones like Litvinenko, who know what it is, that they are talking about. (Litvinenko is known for exposing the Russian Federal Security Service as a player in acts of synthetic terror.)
Shayler then quickly moves the ball upfield, referencing Litvinenko's assassination as an ironic example of False Flag activity which he uses as a pivot point to tie in 9/11, possibly 7/7, and other terrorist acts as further examples of manufactured terror. He deftly rattles off a host of 9/11 anomalies which would surely make someone hearing them for the first time at least raise an eyebrow, and maybe even type a few keywords into a web search engine. He is bold enough to pin 9/11 on the US establishment, rapidly humming through the PNAC foreshadowing from memory.
(Continued below)
On the flagship evening primetime broadcast of Sky News, Martin Stanford has the potential to reach millions of people in the UK and Europe. I'm going to guess and say that the viewship is roughly similar to FOX News, but perhaps I'm being too generous. Still, I'm saying hundreds of thousands, if not millions of viewers. Let's say 25% of them have been living under a rock and don't know diddly about 9/11 skepticism.
Stanford brings up the airplanes which struck the Twin Towers, and the conversation veers into comments about the lack of full-on Federal aircrash investigations regarding the four allegedly hijacked airplanes of 9/11. Because of this, Shayler goes on to say that there is no evidence that the specific American or United flights hit the Towers. Fair enough, maybe "official evidence" may have been more accurate.
And then at the 9:06 mark;
STANFORD: Well, what is the video that we know and show...
SHAYLER: ...well I would say to anybody, slow that video down and make your own conclusion about what is going on there.
Say what?
Excuse me, David, but you're {{--LIVE--}} on international TV... could you possibly grasp for something just a little more esoteric? A bit more dodgy? Something perhaps just a bit more... I don't know, divisive, useless and questionable? Just checking.
Shayler pulls up from his nose-dive, turning disaster into a valiant loop-de-loop, mentioning the lack of a comprehensive forensic examination of the WTC steel, and the improbable collapse of WTC7. Bravo!
Then, at the 27:00 mark, Shayler pisses away one entire minute of primetime television. The going rate for an ad during this time is around $5,000 US. The cost of airing a highly produced infotainment news program like Stanford's show has to be significantly more;
STANFORD: ...I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself... but the shot... the iconic shot which is emblazoned in all our minds, those of us that were around that day, and were reporting that day, of planes hitting the tower... how do you explain that?
SHAYLER: Well I would say to anybody, look at that footage, slow it down, and come to your own conclusions. I very firmly believe that what you're seeing there is not consistent with a plane going into a building, but people have got to make their own minds up.
{{pause}}
STANFORD: I'm sorry, I don't understand that. What do you mean? There was a plane or there was not a plane?
SHAYLER: I would say to people, look at the footage, yeah? From all the angles, and see how that plane goes into the building.
STANFORD: Every angle shows an aeroplane, hitting the building.
SHAYLER: It shows an aeroplane-- it shows SOMETHING... melting into a building. Not hitting a building.
When you have a plane hitting a building like that you expect to see the wings start to fracture, you expect to see explosions when the engines, full of fuel, hit the buldings. You expect to see blowbacks of parts coming back off the building.
When you slow it down, you see a plane melt into the building, then you see the explosion once it's inside.
{{pause}}
(4 seconds --$333.33 in advertising dollars-- gone forever.)
{{pause}}
STANFORD: You ha-- You'll be aware of the offense some people will take...
SHAYLER: I'm trying to get the truth...
Take a stopwatch or a clock, and talk for a minute. Talk about anything.
Now imagine yourself being broadcast to millions, and you have the floor to bust out some damn juicy shizzle, Re: 9/11. You could talk about the insider trading on American and United prior to 9/11, you could mention Webster Tarpley, David Ray Griffin, Professor Steven Jones, Scholars for 9/11 Truth (such as it is), 911truth.org, wtc7.net, infowars.com, Barrie Zwicker... hell, pick a random 9/11 website and friggin' plug it... you could talk about Nafeez Ahmed's outstanding research into the milieu of the ISI/CIA/Mujahadin... there's lots of stuff to talk about...
Or, you can piss it all away trying to convince Martin Stanford that you aren't fully cracked. Go ahead, think on it for a minute. (Have a good look at the bloke sitting next to Shayler who can't f'n believe the load of bollocks pouring out of Shayler's mouth.)
Now consider what Jonathan Margolis (the bloke in question) had to say at the 12:46 mark;
MARGOLIS: There's a saying in Yorkshire where I used to work, "Them that believe nought, will believe ought." ... in other words if you take someone that is routinely skeptical about everything, you can actually sell them anything.
Now if I went out... tomorrow, and started a theory that David Shayler is actually... is one of THEM, he's not really departed from-- he's still part of MI6, SIS, and that he's been put amongst us to spread a CRAZY conspiracy theory about 9/11 and 7/7... in order to discredit the right-thinking people that are beginning to have their doubts... so if you are a farmer in Ohio, and you are beginning to think, "Well, it could be. Could all have been a plot by the government," then, I can say, "well look, at how nutty, these guys are..." and so you can discredit them.
Now, I'm not suggesting that you're running this campaign as a current intelligence officer, but I'm saying that if I put that out there, I would get believers within a week.
Indeed.
Well, I'll probably never have the opportunity to transmit 9/11 skepticism to millions of people in one shot, on television, with a relatively benign host, so it's easy for someone like myself to play Monday Morning Quarterback and criticize Shayler's performance.
However, I do hope that Shayler does what he suggests that others do; look at ALL the angles of planes hitting the towers, yeah?
Then carefully consider your position, sir, and what it is, exactly, that you are doing.
Consider your profile, and the opportunities that will continue to come your way, and then for the love of the Lamb, let Annie do the talking.
-reprehensor.
In fact front page this man!
In fact front page this man! Shayler was on Alex Jones' show today, just listening to the mp3 now;
http://nw0.info/?p=Radio/Alex%20Jones%20Radio%20Archive/2006/December/08...
I don't know if AJ questions Shayler about this, haven’t heard the whole thing yet, but the prisonplanet guys do read this blog and they need to be aware of the disinfo bullshit Shayler has been pushing for a while now.
David Shayler;
David Shayler;
"Then things really go off the rails. I ask Shayler if it's true he has become a "no planer" - that is, someone who believes that no planes at all were involved in the 9/11 atrocity. Machon looks uncomfortable. "Oh, fuck it, I'm just going to say this," he tells her. "Yes, I believe no planes were involved in 9/11." But we all saw with our own eyes the two planes crash into the WTC. "The only explanation is that they were missiles surrounded by holograms made to look like planes," he says."
If people can't see anymore this is to discredit 9/11 truth
they are fucking retarded seriously.
Reprehenser, Are you the
Reprehenser,
Are you the same Reprehenser as the one who posts on the Randi Rhodes Message Board? If so, did you hear her third hour yesterday? She spent a good while talking about 9/11, including NORAD, the collapse of the WTC, WTC7, the destroyed tapes, etc.
She has dealt with the subject before (having Paul Thompson on, recommending Press for Truth, etc.), but I haven't heard such direct talk in a while.
Re: Shayler -- I hope he soon stops imbibing whatever he's imbibing. He has provided good context in his previous incarnation. Annie should Nancy Reagan him.
Shayler is no longer useful
Shayler is no longer useful to us. He should not be included on 9/11 Truth conferences in the future. Put him out with the trash (Jim Fetzer, Judy Wood, Morgan Reynolds).
Why do you think Fetzer and Shayler get invited on these cable news programs? Because they promote lunacy (like NPT). Why do people such as David Ray Griffin or Paul Thompson not get invited? Because they are moderate voices.
I have to agree and disagree
While I think any exposure for 9-11 issues is good, especially one that reaches a wide audience with a range of different opinions, I don't think it's fair to criticize Shayler for some offhanded comments.
95% of his information was accurate and well presented. Granted, he hijacked the conversation and that was impolite in some ways. But it's an important issue, and particularly if you don't know anything about it.
I have no idea how much the other dude knows about 9-11, and he didn't offer much commentary, other than (from what I understood) he believes the govnernment fairy tale. Of course there was the obligatory moon landing/princess diana/UFOs reference. That one always is good for a laugh - sorry a "good chuckle" as they say over there.
Overall I think this is a very positive piece, even if the plane info is relatively controversial and tangential information.
I hear what you're saying,
I hear what you're saying, but I don't think at this late stage just "any" exposure is good exposure. Maybe two years ago, if Shayler were the only Truther to get on TV, I would have agreed; but there is a pattern here, and it includes burying disinfo (like NPT) inside a handful of credible skepticism.
If Shayler had appeared on TV saying nothing but, "There were no planes," he would be too easy to dismiss as a crackpot. But quality disinfo doesn't seem to operate that way. It slips out of an otherwise sensible conversation.
It's similar to the way in which cable news personalities always ask Dylan Avery about "No Plane At The Pentagon" first. The follow-up question is always, "Then where are the passengers?" It doesn't matter if Dylan is right: That moment is the end of the interview, as far as CNN's viewers are concerned. So, he doesn't get to show the less contentious claims about explosives in WTC, something Loose Change tends to get right. No video of WTC7 on CNN. They'd much rather show the Pentagon in ruins, and some twentysomething with a casual demeanor talking about "switching planes" and "Operation Northwoods". At that point, it doesn't even matter if Dylan is right.
Imagine how it would look, for example, if you were listening to an engineer explain the collapse of the towers, and then he punctuated his explanation with the statement, "And at this point, the collapse is aided by Jesus Christ and his magical pixie dust." You probably won't remember whatever preceded that.
Shayler is expendable, as far as I'm concerned.
Overall I think you're right
and I was coming at it from the point of view of someone completely outside our frame of reference.
As far as academic symposiums, citing sources and so forth, it's definitely important to be critical of Shayler. I agree 100%.
I'll still maintain my position that exposure is a good thing, because we can't take for granted that there are still a lot of people that aren't framed in the basic arguments like we are.
But you're point is important for anyone who's done research and think our two positions are not mutually exlusive. It would become an issue if this Shayler guy really starts pushing the no-planes talk, and there is a wider televised debate being framed.
Top notch
Adding in the quote that DBLS provided throws this situation into severe perspective.
Shayler on SKY, Reynolds and Fetzer on FOX...
Murdoch - News Corp.
Murdoch - News Corp.
What was wrong with what Shayler said?
Entire show on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1A783RH0SQ - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJCiW2l1XGY - Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ryFXP6v0qk - Part 3
--------------------------------------------------------
Focus on the botched crash scene at Shanksville.
Rep, you really have no room to talk about Shayler
disinfo
Shayler is disinfo because he led listeners down a path that has increased probability of being detrimental to the 9/11 truth movement. We already know what didn't happen and show the government to have lied. Why would anybody intentionally mislead. And undermine?
These are very telling behaviors on the part of Shayler.
"There are none so hoplessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free" (Goethe)..... a paraphrase from V: Cast aside the illusions. Only when you are finally hopeless can you truly be free.
What did Shayler say on that show that was wrong
NPT = Disinformation Those
NPT = Disinformation
Those that promote NPT are agents of disinformation.
"The only explanation is that they were missiles surrounded by holograms made to look like planes,"
Why are they (me) disinfo agents?
I was talking about Shayler,
I was talking about Shayler, and replying to your question.
You can believe what ever you want to believe, but for every choice there are consequences, you know cause and effect. If you don't believe NPT is disinformation, thats fine with me.
You were talking about me too
TV-FAKERY (aka No-Planes) is based on the Laws of Physics
Shayler and disinfo....
"SHAYLER: Well I would say to anybody, look at that footage, slow it down, and come to your own conclusions. I very firmly believe that what you're seeing there is not consistent with a plane going into a building, but people have got to make their own minds up."
Killtown, you may prefer an argument, like the one implied here, in which an fanciful and unprovable - and so far, poorly argued- position is inserted to set up 9/11 for ridicule. When a few of the older 9/11 activists begin to insert handholds for the government to ridicule 9/11 truth a reaonable inquiry is to wonder why.
Why do something that will increase the chances that no independent, scientific formal investigation will be initiated? Aside from possible explanations such as incredible opacity, egos... and egos... there is but one explanation. Oh, I suppose somebody like Fetzer could have a tinge of delusional disorder coupled with OCD that leads him to do very rash acts...that are on the border of rationality, but I doubt it. I think events and strategems are typically well-thought out. Don't you think?
There are good reasons why the vast majority of scholars for 9/11 truth are moving to distance themselves from poorly supported, damaging...... and, frankly, unscientific/dubiously-researched hypotheses. We want scientific analysis and research. I want the same standards that were/are present in the neuroscience in which I did research.The no-planes stuff...... and its corrolary, 'space beams' is speculation that hurts 9/11 truth. And some say possibly designed to do so.
"There are none so hoplessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free" (Goethe)..... a paraphrase from V: Cast aside the illusions. Only when you are finally hopeless can you truly be free.
Is no plane at Pentagon & Shanksville
No, because there is no
No, because there is no video evidence of the planes crashing. Whereas with the twin towers, the videos show planes crashing into buildings as well as audio of the engines roaring. But then that could be loud speakers connected to the hologram missile.
Your immature statements don't help things
Science and Fun.....
You know as well as I, that in a scientific journal, speculation, per se, is not published. Articles based upon empirical data that are peer reviewed are published. Potential hypotheses warranting further exploration are sometimes identified in the conclusion section of an article. And only if the preceding information derived from experimentation justifies them. And this is one place where 'conservative' and 'data driven' is necessary. (Anybody who ever had had to write some of these, would understand.)
Pure Speculation is not. Speculation with accompanying baggage that includes rather serious contrary evidence is not. For the 9/11 truth movement, that sort of speculation will remain in the Fetzer province. Unless he decides someday to actually DO science. Flights of fancy are at his site. Fun to read, rather like space aliens..... and gee, maybe space aliens true - I always rather hoped they were........ But, again, not the material for a scientific approach to research. And not the material for a peer reviewed article.
Sorry.
"There are none so hoplessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free" (Goethe)..... a paraphrase from V: Cast aside the illusions. Only when you are finally hopeless can you truly be free.
Can anyone explain this?
Because the plane flew into
Because the plane flew into a mesh of steel, obscuring your view of the fireball as it grew and filled up the space between the undamaged floors and then emerging out of the structure itself.









Excellent write up dude!
Excellent write up dude!