"The truly guilty are the powerful individuals within the US government (and those who pulled their strings) that enabled and/or orchestrated the attacks."

Couldn't agree more. Now note that the "individuals within the US government" prominently feature neocons with extensive Israeli ties and extensive Israeli investment in and influence over them.

Doesn't matter why it was done (global dominion), or for whom (Zionist interests, etc), what DOES matter is WHO actually DID-IT. The physical string-pullers were The Cheney-Rumsfeld administration, and its Intelligence agencies. Period.

Cheney, Rumsfeld are WAPS, as are most people in the intelligence agencies.

Just saying.

You are right, I think, so I'll leave it at that. I just get so tired of hearing about the Zionists, and think it is often, not always of course, disinformation.

So if you don't like "Zionists" maybe we should change that to Judeofascists? Would that be better?

Let's clarify something about "Zionism". It is a totalitarian ideology. Not just that it is an aggressive and immoral ideology. Zionists are not just people who think Israel has a right to exist (which may be true but not necessarily in Palestine!) They are specifically people who do not intend to ever make peace with the Palestinians from whom the land was taken and continues to be taken. The fact that Zionism is more real than myth (the opposite of "al Qaeda") and that its dangerous nature is not acknowledged generally in the American press (again the polar opposite of radical Islamic movements) makes it a much more valid subject to bring up repeatedly. Finally, the clear signs pointing to Zionists masterminding 9/11 make any claims that such discussions are disinfo or in any way racially motivated not only absurd but quite detrimental to the eventual inevitable process of disclosure where people will learn who did what. This one is not going to be kept under wraps and the sooner that people who claim to want the best for Jewish people start acting like it and demanding accountability from leaders who betrayed not just America but also the innocent citizens of Israel, not to mention who have caused the outrageously criminal massacre of hundreds of thousands of Arab Muslims, the sooner we can all start the healing process. At this point the only purpose I can see to continue to deny Zionist complicity in 9/11 is to ensure that there will be more blood shed before this issue is put to rest and humanity moves on.

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

Did you hear me say that? It is not accurate, and I agree that Al Qaeda is a myth and there is no real evidence that Arabs were involved in 9/11.

And I am not disputing that Zionism has strong fascist tendencies -- I think Lenni Brenner's argument about collaboration between Zionists and Nazis, in which both opposed assimilation, made sense. I don't know much about Israeli internal politics, but it seems more likely that Judeofascism exists, and Islamofascism is a total misnomer.

How about just calling it Jewish nationalism?

You say that Zionists never intend to make peace with Palestinians from whom they took land. Has our country made peace with the tribes from which it stole land? Yes, on our terms. Leonard Peltier is in prison for allegedly fighting back. Jabotinsky supposedly made a comparison to U.S. policy toward the Lakota. So did Hitler. Does that make us totalitarian? Free Tibet. Free the Lakota?

You explained yourself well, and I don't dispute your sincerity. I may have misread you. Maybe you are right. But I still think that focusing on Zionists lets the WASPs off the hook . I do not believe that the Israeli tail is wagging the dog, nor does it surprise me that Israel spies on the U.S..

perhaps I overreacted or misinterpreted, thanks for clarifying. I think it's wrong to make too much of what wags what. the facts is country's are not different parts of a dog, so the analogy is limited. Whether the US controls Israel or vice versa is not the question. The question is whether the general public has a good understanding of what the people who run ALL countries, i.e. the global elite, stand for. Indeed, thank you for pointing out that we as Americans are just as guilty of a similar ethnic cleansing as is happening in Palestine. Other than the fact that Israel is the latest example, and is happening at a time when people are much more (potentially) empowered than they were in the age of empires, I think the comparison is apt and fair and should be made clear at every opportunity. Real Jew-hatred misses this point. Jews are not exceptional in this regard. It must, however, be noted that Israel holds a special place in the hearts of a significant and powerful segment of the elite, and in this I include both Jewish and Christian Zionists. Criticism of Israel should not be made on the grounds that it is a JEWISH state but on the grounds that it is a racist state and a religious state. I am tehrefore equally critical of so-called Islamofascist regimes and really wish my taxes did not go to support so many of them.

The issue here though is specifically 9/11, and we cannot ignore the role that Zionist influence played in the deliberate creation of a myth, a blood libel in fact, against muslims. This was not by accident but by design, and we need only compare the humility with which most muslims accepted that it was "their own" who commited the acts to the indignant denials that come from many Jewish people when any suggestion is made that in fact it was "their people" to see that the lies of the elite do have strong racist and religious undertones that must be understood by the public at large. It is therefore that we raise the issue of the media's apparent strong bias in favor of one side, and the responsibility of those with the means to set aside their personal biases in the interests of justice and the truth.

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

Why does it have to be powerful individuals within the US government who orchestrated the attacks? Why couldn't it have been powerful individuals within a foreign government, like Israel's?

September 11 was not the first time Americans were mass-murdered. On June 8, 1967, the ship USS Liberty was attacked while sitting defenselessly in international waters. Thirty-nine American sailors were murdered in cold blood. The attack was pre-meditated; it was sustained; and it was coordinated with military precision-- just like 9/11.

The attack was carried out by Israel's defense forces. Powerful individuals within the US government had nothing to do with the attack-- although clearly powerful individuals within the US government orchestrated the coverup, with the compliance of a pro-Israel media. Those powerful individuals were more loyal to a foreign people than they were to America. One of the key individuals orchestrating that coverup was Admiral John S. McCain, Jr. A few months ago his son wrote the introduction to the Popular Mechanics book debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories. I guess treason runs in the family.

9/11 was analogous to the Liberty attack. It was carried out by a foreign power. Then, powerful individuals within America loyal to that foreign power orchestrated the coverup.

great find andrew, i didnt know that about McCains dad.

"The attack was carried out by Israel's defense forces. Powerful individuals within the US government had nothing to do with the attack"

Well, that depends on how you define "having nothing to do with the attack". President Johnson himself reportedly ordered the U.S. fighters sent from a nearby aircraft carrier to defend USS Liberty to be recalled:

"I want that goddamn ship going to the bottom. No help. Recall the wings"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5792753647750188322&q=terror+sto...

The reason appears to have been an attempt to blame Egypt for sinking the vessel, which would have given the USA a pretext for invading the country. I don't think Israel would have attacked a U.S. ship without prior agreement with the highest level of U.S. government.

Getting permission from a corrupt President who got into power as a result of a VERY suspicious assassination does nothing to exonerate Israel's military in the case of the USS Liberty. LBJ did not force them to attack. He may have betrayed our people but unless you're going to argue that it was in America's interest to have our ship attacked then we can only conclude that LBJ was a rat bastard traitor like so many others. Not a traitor to something called "America's interests", to something much more real--his fellow citizens, his oath of office, and basic humanity. The pattern here of Israel at best being such a willing co-conspirator with so many corrupt US leaders is a disturbing and much too hidden one however you look at it. Things are going to be changing and Israelis had better rein in their government as we rein in ours, because otherwise there can be no trust and no peace in the world.

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

I just pointed out that there were conspirators on both sides.

Some commentators one-sidedly blame Israel. I think it is important to understand *why* the attack occurred, and that it was also motivated by the imperialistic interests of some people in the then U.S. government.

I believe LBJ's role in the Liberty attack was similar to Cheney's role in 9/11. He played a passive role. He didn't plan it, or approve of it. He may not have even known it was going to happen. But when it did, it was understood what was expected of him. Johnson recalled the fighters that could have defended the Liberty, just as Cheney enforced the stand down that ensured the planes would reach their targets.

Real Truther points out that Johnson came to power due to a very suspicious assassination. I believe Cheney was put into the vice presidency by basically the same network that took out JFK. And of course, it is no coincidence that Bush was off reading My Pet Goat on that day, leaving Cheney the commander in chief.

your theory about Cheney's role. Add to that the Presidential directive putting Cheney in charge of NORAD and all government exercises.

Cheney is THE most visable part of the shadow government.

Unfortunately, when all this starts coming out in public key players will die or disappear and this will prevent us from knowing the full story, but we will be able to expose enough of the game and end it once and for all.

Clearly, there were foreign subcontractors for some parts of the 9/11 operation, but CDI is more than capable of doing the explosives work AND they did get a fat paycheck for cleaning it up.

We need to focus on getting new and complete investigations and just let the chips fall where they will.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

Be well.

If I had an infinite supply of money, and I wanted to pull off a complex international covert operation , I would hire the best guys for the job..the Mossad.

Mobsters do it all the time. They hire the best guys for the hit and nobody gets caught.

So when idiots say that people should be able to accumulate ungodly amounts of money, remind them that that just makes the price on their heads more affordable to unscrupulous bastards. that should make them sleep well!

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

What are you saying? It sounds like you are suggesting only the Jews have that kind of money. If so, maybe I was wrong.

I think jdjeff makes a valid point. I could see Mossad being involved in a transnational operation.

..only the Jews have that kind of money"

How so? I didn't perceive anything the like, myself.

Jews did not invent banks or even fractional reserve banking. Jews are also not the only people in the world who control the money supply and basically pick the winners and loser in the game of wealth accumulation and disproportionate distribution of power it enables. Period.

Even if the most powerful banking families have been Jewish they are first and foremost bankers, not Jews. Unless of course one is going to assert that all Jews are wealthy, which is obviously not the case. Painting the bank/money issue as an anti-Jew issue just deflects attention from the criminal bankers, whoever they happen to be.

Again, there is nothing inherently evil or bad about Jewish people. It's amazing that we even have to repeat that so that people don't assume that's what we mean when we criticize Zionists and bankers. It just so happens that those two groups are the source of a lot of current problems. Every Jew who can see clearly can see that it is not in their interest to support either Zionism or the current global capitalist banking system. If many Jews are lied to and made to believe that such criticism is aimed at them, I should feel concerned and saddened, not guilty. And I should make every effort to make all Jewish people understand that we will not tolerate injustice or hatred of ANY people based on their ethnic religious or racial heritage. What we demand is that all people of conscience cease to support all corruption and injustice, whether or not the people perpetrating it happen to share something in common with them. WE are appealing for unity with peace and justice. Our adversaries are gunning for the opposite, and many of their tactics are on display for all to see in forums like this.

Be wary of fear mongers as well as hate mongers, they tend to be the same.

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force

Read this article if you want to be informed on hate in America:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2006/011206radiohoax.htm

I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing??? But I can tell you feel strongly about something. I didn't say the JEWS did it. That is like saying BUSH did it. I'm simply saying that WHOEVER wanted it done, most likely hired the best men for the job. And in my opinion, the Mossad were the best men for a 'job' of that magnitude. If you have any better ideas on who could have pulled it off, then I'm all ears. Certainly inept keystone coplike mental midget factions within our intelligence system do NOT posess such organizational skills. They hatch brilliant response to self-inflicted terrorism like confiscating lotion and returning our weapons to us before boarding an airplane....you know laptops, belts, ties, shoes, brief cases, and any other object useful for choking or splitting someones' head open.

I have my own theories on who pulled the strings. And I believe it is much more complex than we could ever imagine. I'm in this with both feet. I took the 'red pill' and there ain't no turning back.

To suggest I'm launching a 'hate' grenade in this forum is utterly ridiculous....if indeed that is what you are saying. But I can't tell.

Geez, I could talk about Lucky Luciano and Murder Incorporated all day long. I guarantee that at no point in that discussion will I ever be accused of being an Italian hater.

sorry if that wasn't clear! I happen to think that Israeli spy ring may have been much more than spies, which may explain why Fox was allowed to run their segment in the first place--see, they were here spying on the real terrorists, not actually BEING the terrorists. But yeah, Mossad has blood on its hands. American blood. Naturally, we're pissed.

____

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

WTCdemolition.com - Harvard Task Force