Lauro Chavez Clarifies Points For His Critics

Lauro Chavez Clarifies Points For His Critics - prisonplanet.com

S spoke to me early today and asked if I could lay to rest some false claims being made against me. He asked if I bullet-ize them, if you’d post them on your site – under my article I presume. I’m not sure, but just contact him if you have any questions. Thanks a lot Kevin, and tell Alex that it was a pleasure to be on his show again. Let me know if I can be of any further help.
..
My letter was in no way intended to be my “Whistle blowing” statement.
- First let me start with telling everyone, that this letter, was a rant to the chief editor of the Cincinnati Post, Mr. Robert White. I sent it to him, after reading an article posted there called “1 in 3 believes in 911 conspiracy”. To which they proceed to debunk us good American people who know for a fact something about 911 does not add up. Mr. White never responded to my email. Again, it was a rant that included both fact from my time in the Army, facts I have learned from my extensive research on this topic, and my opinions. I’ve been asked to sign an affidavit, and I will, once I review it with my attorney.
..
How did I know Cheney was in charge of NORAD, prior to it becoming public?
- Easy, in the Army and whole of the DoD there is a thing called chain of command. Every solider is supposed to be aware of who his superiors are. When Cheney was announced to be taking over NORAD, the CoC was updated and passed out to all of us. This, I’m sure, was prior to the public release of this information. There were many military friends of mine, at the time, that questioned this action.

Please take the time to review this latest article regarding Lauro "LJ" Chavez and his statements on his experiences surrounding 9/11. Check out the link above for the full article. There will definitely be more on this subject in the coming days, including a sworn statement on his first hand experiences.

Thanks Little Pipe for the submission!

He's full of it

It does nothing to help the movement, and could hurt it. What good can this guy do?

how can you say that having

how can you say that having a sergeant on active duty the morning of 9/11 stating that there was a definite stand down order is a bad thing?

i mean seriously, i've seen the legal affidavid that was written up for him to sign, and having a signed statement by a sergeant stating that there was a stated stand down order on the morning of 9/11 would be friggin huge.

to make a counter point, what good can it do to suggest that we don't want people like this guy to come forward? that should be exactly what we want.

OK, you're right, that's a

OK, you're right, that's a good direction, and positive too. You get a signed noterized affidavit that he knew of a norad stand down and pursue it legally from there. I would have preferred to hear about it after he had gone through the legal motions before doing the radio circiut.

A 'Concern Troll', as they

A 'Concern Troll', as they call them over at KOS...

thank you james for being a true truther....

Now that Mr. Chavez has answered some softball questions put forward by his conspiracy theorist friends, how about he answer some real questions:

1. Why does his DD-214 list no foreign service, despite his claim to an 8 month tour in Afghanistan?

2. Why does his DD-214 omit many ribbons that he should have automatically (not merit based requiring his commander to submit them) based on his service, including 1 NDSM, an NCO Professional Development ribbon, the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal and a NATO medal?

3. Why does his DD-214 list a 14 week Special Forces Q course, despite the fact that the course is considerably longer, and makes no mention of SFAS or Airborne training, both prerequisites, and does not list a Special Forces MOS?

4. Why, even though he claims expertise with explosives does he claim that thermite, an incendiary, is an explosive and a component of C-4?

5. Why does he suggest that Afghan soldiers could not have flown the hijacked planes, despite the fact that nobody has ever claimed they did?

6. Why does he claim to have spoken with a "good buddy" Lieutenent General, who was a former commander of the Army Corp of Engineers at CENTCOM in 2001, when the only 3 star assigned to CENTCOM at that time was Lieutenent General Michael P. DeLong, a Marine?

6. Why does he claim he flew in an uparmored C5 into Kabul on September 25th (or September 26th his story changes) 2001, when Kabul was securely in Taliban hands until it was liberated by the Northern Alliance on November 13th, 2001?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/1114/p1s1-wosc.html

7. Why does he claim to have pulled "roving guard" on an oil pipeline in 2001-2002, despite the fact that this pipeline is still in the planning stages 5 years later?

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/apr2006/2006-04-17-05.asp

8. Why does he repeatedly claim that he received a Chapter 13 separation discharge to enter school, when a Chapter 13 is a discharge for "unsatisfactory performance"?

http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r635_200.pdf

9. What type of shoulder fired weapon causes could cause the type of damage seen at the Pentagon, as he mentioned in a radio interview this morning?

10. Why does he repeatedly claim that Dick Cheney was appointed head of NORAD in 2001, when the commander of NORAD at that time was actually Air Force General Ralph Eberhart?

Answer those questions, and I will start to take you seriously.

Is Anyone Going to Address the Questions Raised Above?

Thanks anonymous, your questions are excellent.

If these questions are not addressed by media spokepeople such as Alex Jones, then we can only conclude that this is indeed a disinformation exercise.

I notice there are no replies yet...

His paperwork is as phony as a 3 dollar bill

Why do people who call themselves "truth" seekers latch on to any liar and fraud who comes along without looking into their credentials?

The paperwork this guy provided, and which was accepted without question by tinhatters, is obviously fraudulent.

(No wonder he ran away when challenged)

Chavez

Please read this thread for interesting insights into this 'Chavez' business:

http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=6238...

Sounds legit to me. Not

Sounds legit to me. Not sure why everyone is so anxious to label him disinfo.

Let the vetting process

Let the vetting process continue...but hey, haven't we been waiting for years for someone on the inside to start talking?

This story's got legs.

yes, but why is it news?

yes, but why is it news? He's telling us what we already know and has no way to prove what he's seen. It has no purpose. It's wasted energy. Good, the guy was there, and there is no helpful record of this, so he should start a website and distribute 911 truth materials or something instead of acting like he left the army with some evidence that would help to prove that 911 was an inside job. He blows the lid off nothing. He tips the lid no more than it's already tipped. I'm glad he's gotten attention though, that probably made him feel special.

Then Why An Affadavit?

What he witnessed in Command Central could tip everything, especially if others that were there begin to talk and collaborate with him.

One thing I learned from his "ranting" was that the training exercises being "Top Secret" was considered an abnormality. Just another anomoly to many other oddiities of 9/11. I like the way he described the conversation he had with another insider, pondering on what were the chances that the real thing could be happening at the same time as the exercises.

I mean, they knew....they must of known right away.

So why has it taken so damn long for these guys to begin speaking out? You would think that with every soldier being killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, these guys have to wonder how they contribute to it by keeping their mouths shut in fear of personal reprisal.

Aside from Chavez, who is speaking out? We need 100 Chavez's to speak out, and for all their stories to corroborate.

It's news because

It's news because it's person who is on the inside of the system validating the true story. We on the outside can speculate until we're blue in the face, but that won't bring anybody to justice. This testimony however, like Mineta's, helps build the case. It makes it easier for others to talk. That's what it will take to nail these perpetraitors, people on the inside speaking up.

Say what you will about Chavez...

he's a persistent little cuss! Looks like he's in this for the long haul.

If the guy turns out to be a fake, I will personally challenge him to a duel at sunrise. In the meantime, I suggest we find some positive ways of shining light on this story, however it turns out.

Nobody can say we are gullible... not with the ton of criticism and second guessing Chavez has received thus far. If he is a fake, let US be the ones to expose him (not them). In that way, we gain publicity and maintain credibility at the same time.

Sun Tzu says, in "The Art of War": "When near, appear far. When strong, appear weak". We are very close to blowing this thing wide open! The tipping point is within reach! We are so close I can almost taste it!!! Let's stay strong and take control of the end game. Chavez is a hell of a trump card right now! I say let's play the damn thing!

Trump Card...

Looks like another bridge player in the 911/truth movement.

Or Spades

Most youngins play Spades. And it's a vulgar game.

Well said.

Well said.

Those persons unwilling to

Those persons unwilling to believe that "a small group of citizens can changes the world" probably do not understand Quantum mechanics.

And anyone who still believes anything the bush administration says is a fool.

Everyone with brains knows 911 was an inside job.

We need to move past all that.

Everyone, who actually gets it should say to themself's:

"what do I do now?"

He has to name names. Or

He has to name names. Or one of his colleagues has to confirm his story. I believe he is telling the truth, but without naming names the story won't go anywhere.

"? Comrades, vate shalle vee do about dis-informacion?..."

Hola, Officer Chavez;

Welcome to the wild-n-wolly world of skepticism! Here's to the experts who sign on as 'anoying.' Let me first give thanks to the mere fact that our country was once 'spiritually armored' by the serious 'moral capital' of our Armed Forces, who were consistently able to produce a guiding light for others around the globe.

Been there. (It's true!)

BUT Today, I wouldn't trust our Representatives to look after my neighbor's dog. I sure hear loud and clear that you are saying the chain-o-command looks rather fishy under the current ruse. I've talked to Nila, (pronounced Nee-la,?) and I've talked to Droctor Deagle too. Both will attest that it's pretty unusual to hear from someone like me, who can tell them which floor, nevermind the actual room where the JCS meet in private when things get to red-0-alert.

Don't you suppose they were passing out Premium Havana cigars at the dam-breaking of Katrina too?

{I seem to be getting a tele-patholical image of Cheney giving BoyBush a back-rub as he stoked a proverbial fatty, snickering, as everybody jouously sipped Champagine, and looked at the cool monitor screens around the room, ahh, but I transgress.}

...Otherwise, that stupid War-facility was nothing much to write home about, as I'm sure you understand. One thing's for sure, Meister 'Anoyn.' You don't enlist into the Service as a lifer, earn bars, and suddenly start whimpering like a run-away schoolgirl. So, herein I poise, (if little else,) that every real 'patriot' in this room better first --Salute this Officer!-- for his courage, before you challenge his intentions, because chances are he is Much higher in rank than either me, or you!

Furthermore, our Comrade's real friends at the DoD Do know exactly what this means that THEY will ultimately have to do...

So, rather than merely 'rack-em-all-up' down the lenght of Pennsylvania Avenue, and whack their heads off, I have a novel (3rd World) Solution to everyone's problems. {I'm sure BoyGeorgie would appreciate this plan too!}

Why not take Congress, the unelected Whitehouse Staff, and the JCS's on a little Tour of Duty? Yeah! Why can't we load them all S.O.B's into a WWII sea-plane, and teach them the art of parachuting right into the middle of a freshly evacuated Baghdad? It would make great TV ratings, and be awfully fun for the kids too!

TS- obviously in some whacky kinda-'Tex-Mex' mood... :)

Chain of Command Discrepancy

Generally, I rely on Paul Thompson's Complete 9/11 Timeline to be the gold standard for our online research. The facts there are not hearsay, not opinion and not single-sourced (with rare exceptions).

What we have is a conflict over fact between what "Lauro Chavez" claims and what the Complete 9/11 Timeline reports about the chain-of-command for NORAD responses.

Here's what is available on the Thompson website:
http://tinyurl.com/cvrs5

(COPY)
June 1, 2001: New Policy: Only Defense Secretary May Approve Fighter Jet Launch

According to the New York Observer and government documents, the procedure for dealing with hijackings within the United States changes on this date. It requires that, with the exception of “immediate responses,” requests for military assistance must be forwarded to the defense secretary (Donald Rumsfeld) for approval. Rumsfeld later claims that protection against a domestic terrorist attack is not his responsibility; it is instead “a law-enforcement issue.” [New York Observer, 6/17/2004; Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, 7/31/1997 pdf file; US Department of Defense, 6/1/2001 pdf file]

Entity Tags: Donald Rumsfeld

(END COPY)

I believe that the burden of proof lies on "Lauro Chavez" and any of his defenders to prove why publicly available information on the chain-of-command on NORAD hijacking responses ends with the Office of Vice President and not with the Office of the Secretary of Defense. So far, all that Mr. Chavez has provided is merely hearsay, uncorroborated by other verifiable and authoritative sources.

I think is very important to not let 9/11 Blogger get tarred-and-feathered in the same way that the anti-war movement did with the fraudulent video by purported Special Ops soldier "Jesse Macbeth" in May, 2006, or in the same fashion that Jason Leopold and Truthout.org got competely sandbagged by some Bush Administration insiders who did much damage to Truthout's reputation when that website breathlessly announced a hot scoop on the arrest of Karl Rove which subsequently was proven utterly incorrect. "Gotcha, lefties!" is what Karl was snickering that week.

Remember two things about government psyops and their agents.

1) "Governments lie." I.F. Stone

2) "Fool me once..... won't get fooled again." G.W. Bush

LJ Chavez....

Please do all you can to substantiate this claim.

call the guy and just ask him

[removed phone number] straighty Mr Chavez voice mail

[dz: we've been asked not to publicly post this phone number, please keep this information at least somewhat private]

praise him

i think we should all call him and THANK HIM for joining the movement, just gives more credence to our side

Chain of Command?

This is not a comment about Lauro Chavez ... but I'm wondering how long people are going to look right past what seems to me to be a very basic and obvious fact: the Vice President has no Constitutionally-determined role in the chain of command. And I don't believe that it was the intent of the Framers or the American people that the Commander-in-Chief delegate his authority. It's simply confusing, for openers, and it's unconstitutional (so what else is new lately?). And, in this case, it's beyond that.

You guys know that Lauro

You guys know that Lauro Chavez is the cousin of
Venezuela' stalinist dirtbag dictator Hugo Chavez,
don't you?

oh, okay, and not only that, but

..his uncle, Caesar Chavez, champion of migrant farm workers, got naming rights to Dodger Stadium, which is why it's often called Chavez Ravine.

As Bill Cosby would say....Right!!

offensive and untrue

Chavez was democratically elected. He is not a dictator. He is hero to the poor. His appeal to the poor masses, revolutionary in these days, lead to overwhelming victory in democratic elections. You are confused. I'd recommend that you watch 'The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.'

Are they really cousins?

"stalinist dirtbag dictator

"stalinist dirtbag dictator ". gee Anonymous, watch CNN and Fox much?

Now for some real questions

Now that Mr. Chavez has answered some softball questions put forward by his conspiracy theorist friends, how about he answer some real questions:

1. Why does his DD-214 list no foreign service, despite his claim to an 8 month tour in Afghanistan?

2. Why does his DD-214 omit many ribbons that he should have automatically (not merit based requiring his commander to submit them) based on his service, including 1 NDSM, an NCO Professional Development ribbon, the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal and a NATO medal?

3. Why does his DD-214 list a 14 week Special Forces Q course, despite the fact that the course is considerably longer, and makes no mention of SFAS or Airborne training, both prerequisites, and does not list a Special Forces MOS?

4. Why, even though he claims expertise with explosives does he claim that thermite, an incendiary, is an explosive and a component of C-4?

5. Why does he suggest that Afghan soldiers could not have flown the hijacked planes, despite the fact that nobody has ever claimed they did?

6. Why does he claim to have spoken with a "good buddy" Lieutenent General, who was a former commander of the Army Corp of Engineers at CENTCOM in 2001, when the only 3 star assigned to CENTCOM at that time was Lieutenent General Michael P. DeLong, a Marine?

6. Why does he claim he flew in an uparmored C5 into Kabul on September 25th (or September 26th his story changes) 2001, when Kabul was securely in Taliban hands until it was liberated by the Northern Alliance on November 13th, 2001?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/1114/p1s1-wosc.html

7. Why does he claim to have pulled "roving guard" on an oil pipeline in 2001-2002, despite the fact that this pipeline is still in the planning stages 5 years later?

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/apr2006/2006-04-17-05.asp

8. Why does he repeatedly claim that he received a Chapter 13 separation discharge to enter school, when a Chapter 13 is a discharge for "unsatisfactory performance"?

http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r635_200.pdf

9. What type of shoulder fired weapon causes could cause the type of damage seen at the Pentagon, as he mentioned in a radio interview this morning?

10. Why does he repeatedly claim that Dick Cheney was appointed head of NORAD in 2001, when the commander of NORAD at that time was actually Air Force General Ralph Eberhart?

Answer those questions, and I will start to take you seriously.

I submit...

James: Article 6.

Why does he claim to have spoken with a "good buddy" Lieutenent General, who was a former commander of the Army Corp of Engineers at CENTCOM in 2001, when the only 3 star assigned to CENTCOM at that time was Lieutenent General Michael P. DeLong, a Marine?

"Assigned" is indicative of a loaded question.

Please state your qualifications to cite anything that may-or-may not have been specific to said situation.

assigned

Well he says it was a "good friend" or "good buddy", so I am going out on a limb here and assuming that a SGT (E-5) is not good friends with just any 3 star general who happens to be passing through town, and therefore the general in question must actually be assigned there to allow them the opportunity to bond. The commander of CENTCOM is a 4 star, General Tommy Franks at that time, the only 3 star is the Deputy Commander, Michael P. DeLong. Do you think they just keep generals around making coffee with no job to do?

I am not sure what qualifications you desire on my part. I know enough to read a DD-214, which appears to be more than most of you, and I know how military rank structure works.

Care to address any of the other 9 points? This is actually my most speculative point. I am "just asking questions" here.

Seriously, the military does run psyops on its enemies.

James,

Thanks so much. Your comment and the questions you have posed are the most intelligent part of this entirely unsatisfactory "Lauro Chavez" distraction.

There have been any number of us who have had the gut instinct that some sort of a hoax is being perpetrated here. I think that you've really helped this discussion immensely by getting readers to think about the really radical holes in Mr. Chavez's "legend". In particular, my hat is off to you for explaining in layman's terms the serious anomalies in the photocopied DD-214 and Chapter 13 misunderstanding. I'd spent about a half an hour earlier tonight trying to ferret out exactly the sorts of questions you are much more experienced with than anyone else contributing to this conversation.

Why does any of this matter? I think it is because the 9/11 Truth movement is being set up here to be exposed as a bunch of naive fools who will fall for anything.

Last spring, there was an attempt to discredit the anti-war movement with a completely fraudulent video perpetrated by one "Jesse Macbeth" who claimed to be a U.S. Ranger who was responsible for multiple atrocities in Iraq. This story spread for about a week on the Internet before several right-wing bloggers exposed him as a fraud and declared the antiwar movement to be little more than a bunch of small-brained suckers.

Much the same occurred when Jason Leopold and Truthout.org got suckered by a couple of Bush Administration insiders into publishing a scoop on Karl Rove's pending arrest in the Plamegate Affair. This story became an immense embarrassment for Leopold and Truthout when the story moved away from Rove as the perp. Eventually, the Bushies completely exonerated themselves by foisting a cockamamie story about Richard Armitage's role... but that's another story...

***
Since last Friday when the "Lauro Chavez" story broke here at this site, I've been amazed at the 9/11 Blogger community's apparent lack of ability to engage in critical thinking and willingness to embrace comforting stories. This doesn't bode well for us, if we are indeed trying to get to the truth about 9/11.

I've previously pointed out in this comments section that there is every reason to doubt the veracity of Lauro Chavez's contention that Dick Cheney was the head of the NORAD chain-of-command. James here indicates that that post was held by Gen. Ralph Eberhard on 9/11/01. I've presented evidence that ultimate authority was vested in the Office of the Secretary of Defense as of June 1, 2001. No where in my five years of research have I seen any hint that Dick Cheney was in charge of NORAD on 9/11. The only thing that comes remotely close to that would be to review the testimony of Norman Mineta regarding what occurred in the PEOC on 9/11/01 with Cheney apparently giving orders regarding plane intercepts. This has to an extent been corroborated by Dick Clarke in his book "Against All Enemies".

However, it is clear that there were open channels of communication between FAA, NEADS, NORAD, NMCC and PEOC well before the Pentagon was struck. None of this is mentioned by Lauro Chavez in his Letter-to-the-Editor. What is also not clear is what role CENTCOM actually played on the morning of 9/11, since CENTCOM's territorial jurisdiction did not include the Northeast corner of the continental U.S.

To my mind, there's more reasons to doubt Mr. Chavez's story than there are to accept it as any sort of evidence, particularly in view of the fact that there are several red herrings that seem to be being laid across our trails.

Just one man's opinion...

Thanks, but give me a break

Thanks, but give me a break on the paranoid disinformation plant stuff. This guy isn't a Karl Rove agent, he is a member of your own community who let his ego get out of control, and a lot of you are all too happy to lap it up to support your pet theories. It is not the Bush's fault that a lot of you will believe any crackpot theory that people tell you without consulting those who would actually know what they are talking about.

Try asking an MIT educated structural engineer what he thinks about the controlled demo WTC theory, for example. Oh wait, they are all government plants too!

I have been one of the

I have been one of the people doubting this guy. Thank you anonymous god like person who posted this.

Chavez Receiving Threatening Phone Calls

Source: www.infowars.com

"Mr Chavez has since been informed that the computer company he now works for, as information security manager, has been receiving threatening phone calls demanding his dismissal. Mr Chavez is another example of someone who is bravely putting his career, reputation and life on the line to get the truth out about the 9/11 cover up."

Looks like Chavez has pissed somebody off! Can we show this guy some support now!?!?

chavez

Chavez is not important.you have all the evidence you need to get convictions in the Sept11th case.Cirumstantial evidence is overwhelming.Get Bush and Cheney etc.Round them up.They have to stand trial and sentenced.Death row awaits them.

This is technically correct.

This is technically correct. President Bush is clearly guilty of
failing to praise Allah and acknowledge Mohammad as his
prophet.

Only problem is, that isn't a death penalty offense in America.
And if Bush succeeds, it never will be.

Suck it down.

How about a class action lawsuit

This is off topic and maybe I've missed somthing, but why can't a lawsuit be launched against a specific target such as NIST? The grounds could possibly be, in this example, that they fail to adaquately explain a certain phenomena such as steel beams being ejected 300 to 500 feet horizontally outwards from the evaporating towers or some such phenomena that they would be responsible to explain under normal scientific expectations given a public and professional(structural engineering etc.) need to know basis.

Given all the anomalies present in the O.V., a target and straight forward subject would be easy to identify. If contradictions were demonstrated, in a court of law, in professional explanations given by governing body responsible for an inadequate investigation important consequences could be triggered.

I'll try to work on this idea and present a better formulation in a future posting. Maybe someone else can comment. Any lawyers out there?

thank you thank you thank you

thank you guys both, yes, I've been posting saying this is bull from the beginning. We need a 911 truther critical reasoning course here and you guys have given a good one. Thank you. I hope this pees on this silly fire. If abundant evidence is not presented after this, and I know it won't be, let this stuff die. I hope alex jones will let it die too.

Well, well, Mr. Phelps

I appreciate Jame's hardball questions, but before we sacrifice this guy Chavez on the altar of disinformation, let's give him the chance to respond.

Like I said all the

Like I said all the CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IS AVAILABLE!.Chavez and people like him are only usefull in the witness box.

It´s time now for a trial.Good honest scientists good lawyers should collaborate and get a case together and convict.Death row awaits them.

Let them away with it this time and the next attack will be worse.

Circumstantial eveidence is there.More than enough.Arrests,trial,convictions.Death row, in that order.

Someone Should Do Some Serious Investigation Here

The questions raised by anonymous are excellent, however there is another angle to this which should be followed up.

This is a job for a private investigator - to look into the background of the alleged whistle blower, especially any unusual jobs, government contacts etc...

I would suggest this ought to be done as a preliminary screening test for anyone who steps forward claiming to have vital information for the 9/11 movement.

It should be regarded as nothing more than a precaution - ie. not a sign of a lack of trust...

Such a background check will not be 100% reliable, of course, but it will possibly filter out the cruder disinfo campaigns which are clearly in use. It could also be an helpful investigative lead to get to the real 9/11 perps, since the people making the disinfo are probably close to (or at least indirectly connected to) the core of the conspiracy.

This could be of more value than you think...

(: 911oz

AJ and the Truth Orgs

AJ gets a DD214 that has glaring flaws in it, claims due diligence, deems the story credible, and derides the skeptics who are seeing the problems that an 8th grader would recognize. What the hell is that?

I see no reason what so ever to trust anyone. Cointelpro is real, and is being used against us as we speak. The 9/11 Truth Community has been infiltrated, barbarians are inside the gates, and we are easily duped, because we are not organized. It would be great if 9/11 Truth was an organization, but no, it is a clusterfuck of loosely affiliated groups, with differing agendas, methods, plans, or more likely, no plan at all. It is a grassroots movement, thrown together by a common perception, and to expect it to be an organization, would be to wish upon a star.

What we are up against is an ubiquitous, insidious monster, it is huge, but keeps a low profile, it looks good to the untrained eye, but it is cunning vicious, and thriving. Know your enemy.

Reminds me of the time 150,000 brits were slaughtered by 10,000 Roman soldiers, on an open battlefield. The suckers took the bait. They could have merely surrounded the Romans, cut off supplies, but they charged into a trap. All they needed was some thought, a good plan, and they would have freed England of Roman oppression, which then persisted for another 400 years.

My final Post on this Site

Honestly, you know what - I’m done with all of this. Every time I log onto this site, it just makes me sick. I cant believe I actually told myself this was the right thing to do. You all proceed on with your investigative studies - I'm going to continue to tell my story to people who actually care; not people who question the questioners. I'm on your side - remember?

Look - I spoke with Alfons yesterday from Veterans for 911 truth - honestly, I cannot prove anything. I cannot prove that I saw a document stating the scenarios for our exercise. I cannot remember the name of the officer that told me and about 8 other people there was an order for NORAD to stand down. I cannot prove either of those things - but I heard them with my own ears. You know excuse the fuck out of me for not remembering to bring in my recorder - oh wait - or my digital camera.

My point is that we all know something about 911 isn’t right. Lots of things are not right. I agree 190% (now you'll probably ask, "why doesnt he agree 200% - he must be a fake")

I'm absolutely convinced there are mis-info agents in this blogger and this will be the last time I log on to it. I refuse to be subjected to negative energy - I will tell you the same I told James Bennett from (Screw Loose Change), who asked me to clairify his points about my letter - I will use my energy only for the positive. Just like Mother Theresa said "Do not invite me to an anti-war protest, because it still supports war. I'll gladly attend a peace rally anytime" Thought manifests our reality, and I always keep my thoughts positive. I will not battle for my character, my friends and family know the man I am - and thats all that matters to me. I think that military people who know things will see what you have tried to do to me, and shun away from coming forward. As even now I am having second thoughts.

Those of you who have sent me 100's of emails thanking me - I want you all to know it’s much appreciated. All I know is that I bore witness to some strange things, and I no longer believe in coincidence. I just was hoping to shed some light in this dark time. A change WILL come - I just hope that many of you are there to celebrate it. Keep on with the fight to expose 911 and the evil people in this world.

I have received quite a few threats to my job, my person and to my friends. I say if they want me let them come – I will forever be willing to give my life for my countrymen. God save America, so that it may be as wonderful as it once was – not for me, but for the sake of my children and all of our children.

“Even though I have never laughed with you, cried with you, or even met you; I want you to know that I love you – I love you!”

Best Regards in this dark time

Lauro Chavez
lauro.chavez@Gmail.com (for my friends who would like to stay in touch)

Ruppert

I'm not ready to jump to any conclusions about this, though I think we should give Mr. Chavez the benefit of the doubt, at least provisionally, until we can carefully and calmly check it out.
It is interesting to point out that his story, if true, would fully confirm Mike Ruppert's explanation of 9/11 as put forth in Rubicon. But you all knew this already.

I agree...

While I don't think we should shove this to the top of the mountain of evidence in a rushed attempt at blowing the lid off 9/11, it would probably be prudent to treat Mr. Chavez in a civil manner and let his story unfold, patiently.

This is just but ONE cog in the giant wheel of 9/11 evidence.

I also agree with the point that if Mr. Chavez is treated like a convict instead of allowing the story to be REASONABLY checked out, then others in similar positions as him will be reluctant to follow suit in coming forward.

.
.
They can't explain the Mineta Testimony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y

Ruppert

I read Ruppert's Rubicon, gave the book away. Anyways, what was Ruppert's sources on the stand down, Cheney being at the helm, and so forth?

Message to 9/11 Truth Nattering Naybobs of Negativity

This is directed to the negative "Truthers" (Talk about a OXYMORON). If you are one of the ones that are actually doubting that this previous post actually came from Lauro Chavez, then include yourself in this group.

I have no doubt that this previous post expresses Mr. Chavez' sentiments down to the tee. Especially given the attacks on his character by bloggers to this site.

We are all TRUTH SEEKERS! How dare you attack the messanger based on nothing more than your "gut feeling". Many of us do not even use are real names on this site (Team Leaders included). Here Mr. Chavez lays it ALL ON THE LINE in the name of a cause we profess to challenge and we shit on him!

All of you whom crapped on Lauro Chavez on this site should be ashamed.

i totally agree with you.

i totally agree with you. the people throwing around the words hoax and fraud were way too premature. i understand the skepticism but we should really back off and let it unfold a little bit first.

It's not all truthseekers

It's not all truth seekers on this site. It's also cointelpro, who are aginast the truth. That's why they are so quick to attack, with only "gut feelings" or nitpicky points--they don't want Chavez's story getting out! In addition, you have truth seekers who are so fearful of misinformation, that that's all they see. That's the problem with being obsessed with government lies-- obsession creates personal reality that is stuck in a narrow viewpoint. I don't blame Chavez for staying away from this site (although I appreciate this forum for the latest on what's happening) It's a shame a hero like Chavez gets slammed, but I know the truth will come to light! It can't be held down, there are too many good people in the system who know the official story is wrong, and as the truth momentum builds (which it is!) it will be easier for them to talk.

OK - This is my final post - I just got fired

I thought I'd drop in to tell you all that because of the senseless bastards calling my work and trying to defile my name, I lost my job. So, thanks!

Also, I want to thank the Capt (and I will not reveal your name) that sent me the AR to corespond with my screw up. GOD its been so long since any of this military stuff, I feel like an idiot, but yes - thats it chapter 5-16 - I knew it was an ealry out for school. Tell your soliders about this, they deserve to know

Also, I'm getting alot of shit about saying "I left for afghanistan 2-2.5 weeks after 911" Jeeze you people are so fucking thick - I will from now on make sure my statement are clear -

MAKE IT KNOWN - I did not fly straight to afghanistan, I first landed in Germany, then went to Turkey, then to Kazakstan, then to Kabul. So, fucking sue me for saying I was deployed to afghanistan - that was where we were going - we just didnt go directly there. However, I figured I could skip all the stop spots....I learned my lesson.

Doesnt matter - Now I have bigger things to attend to like taking care of my family.

TO MY FRIENDS:::::Thanks for the support

Lauro Chavez

Do you know how to run a drill press?

I'll help you into a new job.

"The truth shall make you free." Why not make the truth free? We live on a priceless blue pearl, awash in a universe of fire and ice. Cut the crap.

He wasnt Lying about the chapter 13 - he just got it wrong

hello - I'm an active duy Army Officer with Ft Mead. Someone asked me to investigate if this guy was lying about his early out for school. He was not lying, but he quoted the reg wrong. Which is understandable, its huge. NOTE: that the reg states 90 days, however a O5 or above can waive this up to 6months out. Chapter 13 is a bad way to get out. I was reading Chavez's comments and he stated the education early out, but stated chapter 13. He clearly had to know what he was talking about, but quoted the reg wrong. This is not a widely known regulation -and I have never personnaly seen someone get out early using this, but it has been done. Lots of Officers and Higher Enlisted wont tell their soliders about this reg, so they can keep them longer.

AR (army regulation) 635-200 states the following

5–16. Early separation to further education
Soldiers may be discharged or released from active duty for the convenience of the Government, up to 90 days before
ETS, in order to attend a specific term at college, university, vocational school, or technical school.
a. Soldiers serving initial enlistments of less than 3 years, members of the ARNGUS or USAR serving on ADT, and
former senior ROTC cadets ordered to active duty because of breaches of contract are ineligible for separation under
this paragraph.
b. To qualify for early separation, eligible soldiers must—
(1) Not be mission essential to their assigned organizations, as determined by commanders concerned.
(2) Clearly establish that the specific school term for which they seek early separation is academically the most
opportune time for them to begin or resume their education, and that delay of school enrollment until normal ETS
would cause undue personal hardship.
(3) Provide a statement from an appropriate school official (for example, a registrar or director of admissions)
indicating acceptance for enrollment (without qualification or in a probationary status) in a full-time resident course of
instruction. The statement must also reflect that the latest acceptable registration date for the school term falls within
the 90–day period preceding the soldier’s ETS.
(4) Show that they are able to pay, or have already paid, school entry fees.
c. The college or university must offer courses of instruction leading to an associate, baccalaureate, or higher degree
and must be approved by the Department of Veterans’ Affairs. The vocational or technical school must offer a course
of instruction of no less than 3 months’ duration and must be approved by the Department of Veterans’ Affairs.
d. The effective date of early separation under this paragraph normally will not be earlier than 10 days prior to the
date classes convene, except when soldiers may be separated up to 30 days prior to the date classes convene if
evidence is submitted that the 10-day period is clearly insufficient. This is not intended as authority to permit
separation a full 30 days prior to class starting date in every case but to provide a reasonable latitude in justifiable
cases to authorize separation on a date that will give the soldier adequate time to register and enter the school on time.
Examples include soldiers returning from overseas and those who must move their families to the school location.
e. Accrued leave will be used to the maximum extent possible, as transition leave, in conjunction with early
separation under this paragraph.
f. For characterization of service, see paragraph 5–1.
g. Commanders specified in paragraph 1–19 are authorized to order separation under this paragraph. The criteria in
chapter 1, section VII, will govern whether soldiers will be released from AD with transfer to the IRR, or discharged.
h. Combining this paragraph with other early release programs to effect separation more than 90 days before ETS is
not authorized.

Capt Unknown (because I"m still on active duty) Sorry....

how do you feel about 9/11?

how do you feel about 9/11? and do you have any information to share like Mr. Chavez? i know your active duty so you can only give/say so much, but i would love a little bit more insight. how do people from within the military typically feel about 9/11? do they laugh at the american people for not seeing it as an inside job?

How Do I feel?

I know for a fact there are inconsistencies - you'd have to be a moron not to see that. However, we are under oath while we are still Active and cannot discuss these matters. However, after what people have done to former SGT Chavez's reputation, I'd have to agree I'd be reluctant to speak out as well.

Also note, for the heck of it, I contacted the main Army Personnel Office, I have a friend there, I checked on Chavez records. He was in fact in during this time. He was also deployed for 7months 22 days. I did not even need his SSN because there was no other Chavez stationed at MacDill during fiscal year 2001. The DD214 not being signed we could not verify, but this happens alot. Records in the Army are very inconsistant. He was given one, and thats all that matters. If he did not have one, there would obviously be a problem.

I will not give up any information on him, I am not allowed to do so, nor would I even if I could. So, please do not ask.

I agree with the above poster, you all should be ashamed for trying to ruin a man that has clearly put more than his reputation on the line.

Capt R.

Under Oath?

Capt R.
You are under oath To preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic.
UCMJ, and the Nuremberg protocols, so if you know something, you need to do something about it, or you are engaging in a crime. Duty bound.

Alfons v911t - http://www.v911t.org/

Under Oath

You guys unify and get all on the same page instead of just bashing and fighting among each other and maybe you'll get some active duty support.

I personally verified Sgt Chavez records - so thats a little help (give an inch......) So, I am helping - but not that you'll belive me.

Capt R

Thanks for the inch, Capt..... I'll humbly ask for the mile.

A most sincere question:

For a bunch of people rightly skeptical of institutions and chains of command (with the mindless tendency it has in producing the very results we must breathlessly combat today)... the very structures of which (the beneficial ones of organized and unified strategy with effective tactics) we may not survive without..... ?????

Please contribute, Sir.

You're the one vastly better versed than We, in organizing to combat an insidious enemy.

The only thing, as it seems to me, which handicaps the overwhelming hordes of truth and justice foot soldiers already in the military.... is who you really think you're supposed to serve; The arbitrary application of power by self-serving mammon... or the peace and general tranquility of a nation dedicated to liberty and justice?

Please... take your pick.
I have, are you going to help.... or just point out our general state of disarray? (thanks again to whom?)

e

"The truth shall make you free." Why not make the truth free? We live on a priceless blue pearl, awash in a universe of fire and ice. Cut the crap.

Army Personnel Officer:

Although I have no particular alignment with Alfons, I too request that you deeply consider the terms of our Oath.

My personal embroil in the state of government documentation (particularly DOD aircraft) became my own personal quixotic silliness more than 15 years ago. From there, I could never again give full faith and credit to Authoritarians telling me "that's the way it is". Once I took such a step of necessary cynicism, to KNOW that I was proper and correct in challenging authority and dictate, I was forever free to investigate and speak my mind on such matters of importance too few people likewise embrace with such confidence.

You, same as your many friends and ranger buddies, have a most difficult challenge before you; Remain largely silent and obedient before the strategies, tactics and Orders presented to you by other simple men (only superior by rank), vs. digging deep into yourself, and en[couraging] others to do as well... to remind yourselves of an Oath to law, The Constitution, The Bill of Rights (to be amended as a bill of human rights)... maybe even The Declaration of Independence, if need be.

I chose to fight for my country and loved ones outside "the system". When I chose to separate, my "system" understanding and quixotic reasoning was that of a 20 year old. My understanding is now that of a 36 year old, with literally a million more miles behind me.... however, my quixotic nature has only grown with more conviction, and genuine power.

Dig deep, dear Sir.... your country needs you more than ever before.

AWOL PFC Erin S. Myers (Second of the First, Ft. Hood)

"The truth shall make you free." Why not make the truth free? We live on a priceless blue pearl, awash in a universe of fire and ice. Cut the crap.

DID YOU GUYS SEE CHAVEZ GOT

DID YOU GUYS SEE CHAVEZ GOT FIRED>>>>HE PISSED SOMEONE OFF

Yeah, probably pissed off his boss

for lying about his identity and making up a fraudulent story that attracted so much attention.

Verification

CPT R, I seriously doubt you were able to contact anyone who could have verified SGT Chavez's DD214. SGT Chavez did a crude cut and paste to change his training record on his 214. Which Personnel Office did you go through for the verification? I looked at 23 DD214s from different services that I have in my office right now and none of them haven't been signed by the official.

Really, I find it kind of suspicious that a handful of posts after SGT Chavez says he'll never post here again someone else claiming to be in the Army swoops down and answers all the holes in Chavez's story. But provides no substantiating proof for their position to make such claims. There is no "main Army Personnel Office" and Ft. Meade is spelled with an "E". It strikes me as unlikely that a Captain assigned to a post would make such an obvious mistake.

LJ Chavez seems genuine to me.

I have read all that I can find by and about Sgt Chavez here and on Alex Jones site. I've listened to Lauro's broadcast on Alex's show. To me he sounds genuine. I worked in a similar position at a Navy facility near the Pentagon; as a computer help desk manager at SPAWAR. While I was a civilian contractor rather than enlisted, his description of the job duties and access available to computer techs is true. Computer techs, with appropriate security clearance, have access to every office and every function of the command. I routinely interacted with admirals, captains and commanders and had access to most secure areas of the building (all but a few areas).

I think the prudent thing to do is to take his information seriously and try to follow-up on the leads he has provided.

A healthy skepticism is one thing, but trashing the guy before we really have a chance to evaluate the totality of what he has to offer... that's not good.

Peace.
Matt
matt@9eleven.info

Hello, Matt:

I can corroborate the dynamic you just described, as I have also worked in similar DoD contracting.

Besides, General Franks inspected the shin on my boots once... does that mean I'm "in on it with him" too? Hardly.

esm

"The truth shall make you free." Why not make the truth free? We live on a priceless blue pearl, awash in a universe of fire and ice. Cut the crap.

Operation Vigilant Truth

We openly invite you to take part in our Mission "Operation Vigilant Truth." Among other things, we advocate a citizens' independent investigation into the events of 9/11. As Veterans we vow to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Our principal focus and mission is to enlist the assistance of veterans from all branches of military service, but we gladly invite all patriots who want to help out and enlist in this urgent cause.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/v911t/

Alfons v911t

He doesn't seem genuine to me

Not in the slightest.

Oh, and have you seen his alleged discharge papers? It is glaringly obvious that they've been manipulated.

Thanks LJ.

Ok first off everyone on here should ask questions but this has gotten out of hand. I am a good Friend of LJs and i must say this is really something. I mean I know he is real and where he worked and the fact he just got fired. This is all real. He was in the military has tried to prove that but continues to get picked apart.

Strange thing is I have been a follower of the movement for about two years now and this is the first time I got to see how a person I know in my private life becomes portrayed in the media and radio shows. LJ and I were talking the other day about how strange it is that people are even saying he should have picked a better fake name. I mean come on people this guy is real. He has gained nothing from going public except to loose his job. He has not been offered any main stream media and he didn't even try to become a whistleblower but rather just gave his opinion peace letter to someone at vt911t.org and next thing he knows he is facing the gauntlet if he is real or not. At this point he could have just ignored everything and let it pass over saving his job and character but he made a big choice to come out and defend himself and set the story straight. Now he has tried to do that and all he get's is more negative support and it now even appears the efforts of the few none believers are affecting Alex Jones and the others into starting to back off.

Please tell me what LJ stands to gain from doing any of this. If he is fake he just lost his job, forged military documents which lands him in jail for a felony, and brought serious threat to himself and others around him.

WHO STANDS TO GAIN. don't forget our very own founding questions when looking critically at a event or person.

This is all I am going to say for now but if anyone out there supports this brave man this might be the time to say something because in truth he is just a normal guy like you or I. Imagine if you were unexpectantly thrown into the spot light and then questioned left and right, loose your job and then in the end you get spit out with people saying your fake you made this up. blah blah..

Before this whole thing happened to my friend LJ I was one of you. Just another internet surfer freedom fighter that picked everything apart from the comfort of my computer, faceless in the truth movement. I still am just a faceless small supporter but I got to see something unique and that was a very close friend of mine get thrown into the center ring and see how that plays out within the movement. I can now see how much out of context something can be taken and how hard it truly his to prove yourself in front of strangers.

Why is it that everyone spends so much time trying to focus on negative energy. I mean we live in this blanket of fear so much so that now we have diss-info agents all among us and cannot trust things which our own eyes show us. I think it is time everyone takes a deep breath steps back and reevaluate what all this research, analyizing and energy is really going towards. We are responsible for more then "waking people up". We are responsible for our own emotions and thoughts, we must guard against the effort of the establishment from taking the smiles and joy from our faces. We can critically ask questions without falling into the trap of fear / hatred and other negative patterns which our leaders use so much. Realize that life can be whatever you think it will or should be. Yes we have serious things happening right now that all point toward negative outcomes but if we give up our positive spirits willingly in a effort to fight the good fight then my friends we have already lost the battle because it is truly an assault of the individual and your right to " Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".

Do you live with Lauro

Do you live with Lauro Chavez by any chance?

The reason I ask is that your comment has the same IP address of the last comment by Lauro (here). Usually that would mean that both this comment and the last comment by Lauro were actually the same person or at least from the same internet connection.

NO I WORK WITH HIM

WEll I work with LJ so we share the same IP. Well I used to work with him because he no longer has a job here. So if you are looking at the IP address you are seeing our work IP address which appears the same because all traffic at companies pipe through a firewall to the internet and so to outsiders it looks like the same IP. Also please know LJ is an Informaiton security professional. He would not post a comment using the same IP if he were going to be a hoaxer which he is not.

Nice try though.

Once again pure example of how if you search hard enough your "thought becomes your reality"

please note that i have not

please note that i have not passed any judgement on Lauro, just have questions which i think are at least resonable.

thanks for clarifying the IP thing, makes sense to me.