that best way to convince newcomers is by sticking with the science. Outrage will propel the truly converted to delve further in their own research. As long as the scientific facts are revealed...no matter who or what groups are involved...the truth will be revealed. Having said that ,my own research has lead me to believe it is possible there are people/groups from several countries (without the knowledge or will of their people) involved in the events of 9/11/01..including the US, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Pakistan, and the UK....and they would be from a variety of religious and non religious backgrounds ….As a US citizen, if it can be proven, I would want the criminals from my own country exposed…Their religion should not make them any more or less suspect if the facts/science lead us to their door. For obvious reasons, in today's reactionary climate, it is easier for a Christian "truther" to be willing consider there are Christians (so-called) involved in the attacks than it would be for a Muslim to consider there might be Muslims (so-called) involved or for Jews to consider there could be Jews (so-called) involved the attack.

Though I believe science is the key to 911truth via www.ae911truth.org, I greatly appreciate Jon Gold's contribution to the 911 truth movement.....along with Religious Leaders for 911 Truth... http://rl911truth.org

darkbeforedawn
can't make it vote!
Well, like I said before, we must continue studying who is controlling the media and what gets out to the public and then they should be held accountable for their lies.....I'm dreaming again....

1. whether or not 5th estate will do a good show is anybody's guess. I'd say hope for the best, prepare for the worst. They had knowledgable people available in the CBC to help them prepare the show and they excluded them. Doesn't bode well. But I'm hoping for the best.
2. I've found this thread peculiar. I agree that personal attacks have no place here and are destructive. They are threatening the usefulness of this forum. However, I find it odd that some seem to feel criticizing Zionism is racist or in bad taste. Zionism is not Judaism. Zionism is a nationalist political movement, which one can criticize for all sorts of valid reasons, just as one can criticize any form of nationalism. Whether Zionism has any responsibility for 9/11 has to be determined by a study of the evidence.

1) We can hold their feet to the fire. I'm going to contact my friends in Canada and ask them to write the CBC. We need to remind them that their honor and credibility are on the line. This is a matter of life and death. 9/11 Truth has a firm foothold and will prevail. All those who have been suppressing the truth will be held accountable.

2) See "Reality" post above.

"Whether Zionism has any responsibility for 9/11 has to be determined by a study of the evidence."

1/ 2 on topic. I'm going to address this 'Zionist' issue briefly as this thread already got hijacked, and this is such a hot button issue. I'm removing the comments that replied to this as they're off-topic. However, this issue needs to be discussed, in a thread devoted to the topic (it has been before).

911SATYA, 'Zionism' and any ideology, idea, movement, government, religion or personal behavior/choice is subject to criticism- however, arguments need to be backed up with evidence. Making vague generalizations and insinuations, w/o evidence, and going off the thread's topic is not appropriate. Criticizing 'Zionism' or the actions of 'Zionists' is not necessarily racist- but people with anti-Jewish prejudices use the term 'Zionist' as a cover.

Zionist beliefs may well have been a motivating factor for some who were involved in 9/11. However, it doesn't seem that this would negate personal responsibility for actions, unless it can be proven that Zionism makes people crazy. And publicly available evidence shows that people of US Caucasian Christian-heritage, as well as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, contributed to 9/11, and that Peak Oil, desire to consolidate power, establish hegemony in geo-strategic regions rich in energy resources were also motivating factors.

So what's the truth? Have the 9/11 crimes been solved yet? A study of the publicly available evidence may be able to conclusively solve the 9/11 crimes, but so far it seems there are still too many unanswered questions, and too much suppressed evidence. And the people involved in obstructing investigations and promoting the official myth have motivations other than Zionism

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

I'm removing the comments that replied to this as they're off-topic.

Did you? (Remove comments that you feel are off-topic)

Goodbye and good luck.

The key words here are..."off topic". Which to be honest is what a moderator is supposed to do.

Creating a blog entry on what topic you want discussed is the answer. As a moderator informed me, and which makes sense.

He can not have it both ways.

It's one thing to delete the initial post (and responses) by Hordon as "off topic." That would have been fine and people would understand that the mods were just doing their job of enforcing the rules, one of which is to stay on topic. It would have also been fine to warn others that off topic posts will be deleted.

OR...

He could have chosen to remind people to stay on topic, but then while he's at it, give his personal take on the whole Zionism thing, while not deleting anything written by others.

BUT...

He did both. First, he deleted the initial posts, the main violation being that the posts had nothing to do with the blog entry. Then, after deleting the said posts, he seized upon the moment to stand on the soap box and give his own take on the subject. The end result is that his opinion on the Z topic is visible whereas those opinions he's criticizing are not.

This is a very bad tactical move because it serves to re-affirm to many people in the truth community the idea that this site is compromised and that censorship occurs.

For the record, focusing on "Zionism" is totally appropriate (though perhaps it wasn't in this particular blog entry, but oh well, here we are) in the movement because Zionism is a political ideology, rooted in military expansionism in the name of a homeland for the "chosen people", very eerily similar to Nazism and its military expansionism in the name of acquiring lebensraum ("living space") for the Master Race, the Germans.

A political ideology is completely different than an Abrahamic religion. Blaming the ills of Zionism (among other factors) for the Palestinian Holocaust and everything associated with it, which includes 9/11, is VERY different than blaming Christians, Jews, Muslims, Arabs, and Arab Muslims. EDIT: I don't mean just Zionism either. The ills of "American Exceptionalism" and its associated with it also play a large role. 9/11 was a nexus of several political ideologies and agendas coming together as a nexus. But as long as we focus on PNAC and its ideology, we should also not ignore the very heavy Zionist interest in wanting something like 9/11 to occur.

Finally, just because SOME anti-Jewish racists hide behind the Z word, doesn't mean all or even a majority do. To not "go there" with Israel/Zionism criticism out of fear of perception is a cop-out.

2nd Edit: I see my comment is already getting down voted. So remember what I always say on my Pentagon posts, boys and girls:

I make a point of reading all the down voted comments because I find many of them to be the best comments. - Atomicbomb

darkbeforedawn
to create so much rancor and discord that ALL the comments are removed and certain individuals feel less exposed?
Seems like it has been tampered with and censored, with comments deleted and then the replies to the comments look silly because what they are replying to is gone.
Has this thread rocked a boat or two or what?
I can see the logic in the chain of comments: Main stream media outlet promises to do "objective" show on 911. People are upset because these promises were always broken and the shows turned into hit pieces.
Then we start to wonder.....what is it about the media that makes it so monolithic. Who is controlling the media and what forces are at work that make it so we NEVER GET ANY REAL COVERAGE?????

That they are dependent on in order to stay in business perhaps? Advertising dollars that they might not get if they report on certain issues? Could be. I bet it has more to do with that, than anything else. Certainly more to do with that than the religion of those who sit on high positions within their companies.

darkbeforedawn
so you feel all the censorship- all the lies- all the deception- all the cowardly treasonous acts- the media has engaged in.....just comes down to money???

too sad for words.

I wouldn't say it's too sad for words. The people that invented the phrase, "money is the root of all evil" didn't come up with that phrase for nothing. However, I don't think Zionism is the reason. I think it has to do with journalists not wanting to piss too many people off for fear of losing their sources (which again falls back to money... they want to be able to keep their jobs). I think it has to do with the fact that certain media companies are owned by companies that greatly benefit from the wars (which again falls back to money). I think it has to do with fear of being labeled "anti-semitic" and having the JDL come down hard on you. I think being retaliated against by the Government is another concern. I think Zionism has the least to do with it. And again, just because someone is Jewish, does not mean they are a Zionist. If there are people in high positions in media that are Jewish, that doesn't mean they are a Zionist. As I've pointed out elsewhere, believing that the Zionists or Jews are responsible for all of the world's problems is a Nazi ideology I don't think this movement should subscribe to.

CBC better not make a hit piece. ;)

darkbeforedawn
Well, certainly looks like in the case of media complicity in the events of 911 we are talking not just about withholding information or censorship. There was deliberate well planned deception which must have involved elaborate plans and rehearsals as well as many instances of fake video footage.
We're not talking about offending advertisers with bad words or some unpopular idea. We are talking about selling a war to the goddamn public. And besides the weapons and defense industry who did benefit from the wars? There are only a few countries pushing for those wars....
It certainly wasn't the average American citizen or for that matter the average Israeli....
The media has made us into a country of stooges, a vast population who share a terrible guilt for a crime for which we really had no choice in.
The media continues with its vile course, ever deceiving the gullible and twisting and perverting facts to suit an agenda. Whose agenda?
Figure that out and bingo.....we know who controls the media.....

Adam's right, a more appropriate step would've been one of the first 2 options he listed. So, here we are. My main concern related to this:
"911blogger.com has been used as a tool to identify and amplify wedge issues that divide 9/11 skeptics and researchers, and this has occurred primarily in the comments area." - Reprehensor, July 3, 2007 http://www.911blogger.com/node/9750

Adam, I don't disagree with your comments about Zionism, etc.

Judeophobia, legitimate criticism of Zionism and the state crimes of Israel, Israel's role in 9/11 and disruption in the 9/11 Truth Movement all need to be discussed- not necessarily here. I'm not going to comment on it here anymore.
Jon, Adam and anyone else- please consider posting a(nother) blog entry on the topic.

darkbeforedawn, you've posted 2 comments in this thread posing the question, Who controls the media? A discussion of the media regarding 9/11 investigation certainly has to do with the thread's topic. You indicated in the Mukasey/KSM trial thread that it's Jews; so provide some links to document this- making insinuations w/o evidence degrades your credibility.

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

darkbeforedawn
Loose Nuke I will send you an e-mail with a link that contains this information. I do not want to discuss peoples' religious affiliations any more on this thread or any other thread.

In the above post I spoke of fascism and its agenda. I did not talk about Jews or zionism. I asked which countries were/are pushing for the 911 wars?
Which governments?
Surely that is not an antisemitic statement or question.