darkbeforedawn
Does anyone remember just how Mukasey ties in with 911 investigation in the past? Did he function in some capacities for insurance settlements or did he handle potential witness statements....can't quite remember....

to whom all 911 related cases were funneled until he took the Attorney General post in Sept. 2007.

I believe he was the presiding judge in Larry Silverstein's insurance settlement cases.

Mukasey wasn't afraid that torture would cause a terrorist attack when he was brown nosing for the Bush dictatorship!

Mukasey was the judge that covered up the FBI's involvement in the 1993 WTC bombing. The bomb that went off was made by the FBI!

See the article "The World Trade Center Attacks in Perspective" at www.DNotice.org for more on Mukasey.

Dean Jackson/Editor-in-Chief DNotice.org
Washington, DC

Robin, what evidence do you have that Mukasey is a dual citizen with Israel?

Are you suggesting that all Jews are uniquely corrupt?

Robin - "USofA's governance and the obediance to the Pentagon, it's Intel THUGS and of course, AIPAC"

The US and all the world's governments are manipulated according to the perceived economic, social and political interests of those in the wealthiest class- and this class includes Jews, but is not limited to Jews. What evidence do you have that Jews influence the US govt disproportionate to their wealth, controlling for the factors of Christian Fundamentalist 'Zionist' support, and the interests of the US military-industrial-oil Establishment in having a close ally in the Middle East?

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

And was shown that he has none in this thread. However, as we can see, he continues to promote the idea that all of these people have dual citizenships with Israel even though they do not (and gets voted up). As I said here, part of what is perceived as "anti-semitic" is making up stories about "dual citizenship" which have been shown to be false over and over again, just to create a narrative that involves Israel." This kind of behavior should not be tolerated, and those who participate in it should not be promoted in the 9/11 Truth Movement. This is, of course, my opinion.

darkbeforedawn
that's a very interesting question....
perhaps you could give us evidence that they DON'T have a disproportionate influence on government, economics and the media in this country....I would love to see that evidence! Please do post it, loose nuke since you claim to have that fact established....

What I said:
"The US and all the world's governments are manipulated according to the perceived economic, social and political interests of those in the wealthiest class- and this class includes Jews, but is not limited to Jews."

darkbeforedawn, since you also used the word "disproportionate", I assume you are not disputing that the wealthy class among peoples of other races wield a corrupt influence. However, your statement implies you believe that Jews do wield a corrupt influence disproportionate to their wealth (and their numbers)- is that true, you believe that?

If so, it would seem that you believe that Jews are 'special', genetically more intelligent than all other races, or they're 'God's chosen people', or they've sold their souls to the Devil, or that Jews are simply uniquely greedier and more ruthless and corrupt than any other race- could you elaborate on what you believe, and provide some evidence to back it up?

It's not self-evident to most people, though to you and Robin it may be- so go ahead, make your case.

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

darkbeforedawn
Well for example, Loose Nuke, Mormons and Quakers are known to possess considerable wealth in this society in the United States.....yet a Mormon judge or politician is a rare sight indeed as are Quaker judges politicians or law makers....
There are many quite well off minorities in this country who do not have any influence whatsoever on the actions of our government.
Can you say the same of this particular minority?
Just askin.....

Richard M Nixon -Quaker
Glenn Beck -Mormon

anyone know it's been done:

per capita income/wealth by race, in the US and worldwide, current and historical

% of high offices, public and private, by race, in the US and worldwide, current and historical

An analysis of involvement in high crimes would be difficult, as wealthy criminals often use legal means of committing crimes, or insulate themselves by having proxies do the dirty work, and while they're sometimes identified by proximity and eliminating other possibilities, they're rarely prosecuted or convicted.

However, it should be possible to analyze economic, social and political expenditures/subsidies and determine the ultimate beneficiaries, by class/race/nation, current and historical.
Various sociological studies have already documented that the wealthy benefit disproportionately- i haven't seen it broken down by race.

And whatever the results are- what is the reason they are the way they are?

darkbeforedawn, do you have an explanation?

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

darkbeforedawn
wish I could answer your question, LN, but I can't decipher exactly what it is you are asking....
In the meantime I wonder how people would be feeling if Muslims had packed The Project for the New American Century and signed their names about hoping for a "New Pearl Harbor"....
If Muslims had presided over the insurance settlement of the WTC...
and if Muslim judges had sent witnesses to the crimes out of the US before anyone would question them in depth....and if a Muslim had been appointed head of Homeland Security....
Just mulling this over a bit...
But still not sure what it is you are asking...

I'm asking how much does ethnicity, nationality, religion or race have to do with their responsibility for 9/11, or with investigating it. As well as other subversions/betrayals of the Constitution, the public interest and human rights. How much?

While a person's ethnicity, nationality, religion or race might give some clues as to their motives, which might help lead investigators to ask useful questions, is it going to make any difference in their guilt? I don't think so.

It's true the PNAC authors, and those in key positions who 'failed' to prevent 9/11, and who obstructed investigations/'failed' to investigate before and after 9/11 included Jews- AND White Americans. Those who 'failed' at the CIA, FBI, FAA, NMCC, NORAD, Secret Service were primarily/all White Americans. Anyone know about the NSA?

It's also true some of the money we know about, as well as logistical support, came from Saudi Arabia Royals/GID and Pakistan ISI- and inquiries into these things were shut down as well.

So, what role does a person's ethnicity, nationality, religion or race play in the big picture?

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

darkbeforedawn
would seem on the surface to have absolutely nothing to do with the responsibility that INDIVIDUALS bear who have participated in the crimes that we now refer to as "911".....and yes those are to a large extent, white Americans.....which I suppose would include Jews.
But Jews as far as I know are NOT an ethnicity, race or nationality....Judaism is a RELIGION--not that it really matters in the large scheme of things....
What I consider by far to be a greater significance than 911 is the ongoing crime of the cover up and the on going treason of the media ignoring every piece of evidence that has come to light including the peer reviewed findings of Niel Harrit et al about nanothermite.

Does anyone dare to examine who is controlling this cover up and whether it involve race, nationality, ethnicity or religion? This is a crime not only against Americans, but against humanity.

A little beside your point, but just to clarify, Wikipedia and my experience with Jewish friends suggest that to be Jewish is NOT simply or even overwhelmingly a matter of having the faith. I have friends in the US of various ethnicities who have converted to Judaism (they call themselves Jews), and I have ethnic Jewish friends who do not participate at all in Judaism and care nothing for Israeli politics. They call themselves Jewish as well.
The toxic element is not identified by whether people are Jews (duh), but whether they are criminals and traitors to this nation, and for that matter, to humanity. And a good indicator in my book seems to be a strong identification with the current Israeli administration and the suffocating politics of death and fear that seems to be the major by-product of US-Israeli relations, whether someone is Jewish or not, a dual citizen or not.
No reason to conflate them, just as I would not want to be seen as supporting US foreign policy under W.

"Does anyone dare to examine who is controlling this cover up and whether it involve race, nationality, ethnicity or religion? This is a crime not only against Americans, but against humanity."

Yes, it's a crime against humanity, and yes, many are examining the cover up and those controlling it.
Does the cover up include Jews? Yes.
Do some Israeli hawks and Jewish neocon Zionists believe US intervention in Iraq, Iran and the Middle East promotes Israel's security? Yes.

Does the cover up include Caucasian nominal Christian and functional Atheist Americans? Yes. Do some Caucasian American hawks, Establishment elites, neocon-Zionists, big oil investors, defense/security contractors believe that US intervention in Iraq, Iran, the Middle East and Central Asia is good for their investments? Yes (and they may also believe it's crucial due to US long term energy security, due to Peak Oil)
Are they willing to partner with Israel and scratch their backs on certain things in order to advance their own personal interests? Yes.

Who is a Jew?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew%3F

The Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים‎, yehudim), also known as the Jewish people, are an ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew

darkbeforedawn, given your statements/questions about who is controlling the media, i suppose you believe it's the Jews. Do you have an ownership chart showing the ethnic/racial breakdown of owners?

Here's one of the Big Six corporate conglomerates which control the majority of MSM outlets. Obviously, there's some Jews in here- and a lot of Caucasian 'Christian' heritage Americans. Many of the most powerful people involve also sit on the boards of other companies with vested interests in the current corrupt established social order; defense, finance, insurance, etc. Greed for money and power and a desire to protect the system that affords them their position and privilege unites them.
http://www.freepress.net/ownership/chart/main
http://www.freepress.net/ownership/chart/main

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

darkbeforedawn
This was a great reply, LN, and yes I have seen numerous charts listing the CEO's and ownership the most influential media entities...
Specifically, Hollywood entertainment which has been vastly formative in the thought processes of Americans (sadly)
You would have to be liar and a fool to state that Jews(zionists) do not control that realm almost exclusively.
However, that does not lessen the responsibility and the guilt of the numerous others who also wield influence and power as putative "objective" purveyors of information and "news"...
These organizations have acted as one monstrous monolith and failed us....failed us at every level.
They should be held accountable....in our schools, In our universities, in our government agencies and in our churches and yes, even in our Shuls...
When will that happen?

"I have seen numerous charts listing the CEO's and ownership the most influential media entities... Specifically, Hollywood entertainment which has been vastly formative in the thought processes of Americans (sadly) You would have to be liar and a fool to state that Jews(zionists) do not control that realm almost exclusively."

darkbeforedawn, you really need to back up a claim like that with at least 1 link; it doesn't help the rest of us if you say you've seen them and we can't see them for ourselves.

It seems you're making a claim primarily about Hollywood, not the entire MSM universe. It would also be instructive to see some documentation and analysis of the alleged Zionist message that's been put out, and documentation of how it's been "formative in the thought process of Americans". As Israel's problems are not a big concern of Americans, I'm skeptical that's true.

Israel's problems- and the problems of any interest that generates large contributions- are the concern of politicians. And you're right, they essentially act as a monstrous monolith- that serves the social-economic-political interests of the 'elite' class. The system is corrupt; the Democrats, Republicans, MSM and Federal Reserve serve the perceived interests of the 'elite' class, not the public interest. They are not going to change, but if they continue screwing things up, the enough people may withdraw their support, and invest in independent media and candidates, to make a difference.

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

darkbeforedawn
I have lost my link. You can google and find out for yourself who owns the entire movie industry. There is not really any controversy in that department. I don't need to prove it and I'm really not very interested in it.
But you are fooling yourself if you believe the entertainment industry has not been fundamentally formative in the mindset of American's youth for the last 50 years.

LN: "If so, it would seem that you believe that Jews are 'special', genetically more intelligent than all other races, or they're 'God's chosen people', or they've sold their souls to the Devil, or that Jews are simply uniquely greedier and more ruthless and corrupt than any other race- could you elaborate on what you believe, and provide some evidence to back it up?"

Personally I don't believe in 'race', but it seems you think the 'Jews' are one (darkbeforedawn only mentioned religions). I wonder how many other 'races' do you think there are?

When do we start censoring Robin, now?
Please stop with the distractions.
I think Robin was referring to dual-citizenship. So you jump from that, to 'all Jews being corrupt' crap?

It's evident for all to see that in the upper echelons of this government, there were (before/during 911)
many people who had extreme loyalties/devotion to the country of Israel.
I personally have a problem with that.
I would have the SAME PROBLEM had there been people there with extreme loyalties to the country of NORWAY!....(but maybe i'm just conspiracy-minded). It just doesn't seem equitable at all!
I don't really care if these people in question (Mukasey, Skelator, Wolfowitz, Feith, et al..) have a piece of paper showing dual-citizenship or not.
I don't need to see that, to know that by their actions they have shown that they are fanatics for Israel. And i think anyone with truth & justice on their minds, should have a problem with that.
The 'problem' is with 'fundamentalism' of any stripe....be it Zionist, Christian, Islamic, etc....in nature.
Nothing wrong with loving the country of your ancestors....but that's not what we're talking about.
In this case, in the U.S. gov't, as Bill & Kathleen Christison have stated....."loyalty to Israel by government officials colors and influences U.S. policymaking in ways that are extremely dangerous."(!!!!)
Obviously. And they should know, being ex-CIA.

Robin's the one who made the claim of Mukasey's dual citizenship, and of the US govt being the puppet of the Pentagon, 'Intel thugs'- "and of course, AIPAC"

"I don't really care if these people in question (Mukasey, Skelator, Wolfowitz, Feith, et al..) have a piece of paper showing dual-citizenship or not."

Right- what's important is if they're loyal to the Constitution and the US- if they're not, they shouldn't hold high office. And if they've committed crimes- and unless someone can show that 'Zionism' or 'dual-citizenship' is a valuable predictor of criminal actions, what use is it to make these claims? And 'Zionist' is just a 'PC' code word for JEW (most Zionists are Christian fundamentalists, but we all know that's not who people that talk about 'Zionists' are talking about)

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

' 'Zionist' is just a 'PC' code word for JEW'

Nonsense--'Zionist' denotes an ideology and a degree of committment to that ideology.

1) Not all Zionists are Jews--we know this! But whether Jewish, Christian, secularist or something else, Zionists have a definite view favoring the claims, interests, etc. of Jews vis a vis Muslims and Arabs within Israel and the occupied territories; and of the state of Israel vis a vis its predominantly Muslim neighbors.

2) Not all Jews are Zionists.

Yes, sometimes antisemites will try to hide behind use of the term 'Zionist' when what they really mean are Jews. But that doesn't entitle us to pretend that that is the term's only use, or its true meaning.

In the post above referring to dual citizenship, I saw a question mark at the end--not a claim.

Have you read many of Robin's other comments? The giveaway in that particular comment is the inclusion of "USofA's governance and the obediance to the Pentagon, it's Intel THUGS and of course, AIPAC." and omitting mention of all the mostly White defense contractor lobbies, as well as the influence that the Christian Right Zionists have on GOP politics, as far as beneficiaries of 9/11 and supporters of Israel go.

Our government is unduly influenced by the 1% that control the vast majority of wealth in this country, and corruption/abuse/exploitation is an obvious problem in the financial/industrial/insurance/security/defense sectors. They're not all Jews, or even mostly Jews- are they disproportionately Jewish? In any case, why single Jews out- how important is the Jewish aspect? Especially when singling out Jews gives fodder to the detractors?

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

Including mention of AIPAC with other groups and institutions who have clout in Washington is just that--inclusion with others and NOT 'singling out' one of them. And what is being included in this case--by referring to AIPAC-- is an organized lobbying group, not an entire ethnic or religious category within the U.S. population.

Antisemites, on the other hand, most certainly do single out Jews within the ruling elites to the exclusion of non-Jews; and, moreover, they make no differentiation between these small numbers of Jews within ruling circles and the rest of the Jewish population--just paint them all with one broad brush.

When you look at these ruling elites, you will see both Gentiles (if that term isn't too archaic) and Jews. And when you look at political movements trying to counter those elites and their agendas, you will also see both Gentiles and Jews. Thus, such labels aren't very helpful in political analysis.

Zionism, on the other hand, refers to a kind of political ideology and action and belongs in discussions of what's going on in U.S. politics--particularly in view of the overlap between pro-Israel groups and military-industrial interests.

However, to expand on two of your points which relate directly to another other point I was making:

"Antisemites, on the other hand, most certainly do single out Jews within the ruling elites to the exclusion of non-Jews; and, moreover, they make no differentiation between these small numbers of Jews within ruling circles and the rest of the Jewish population--just paint them all with one broad brush."

The above statement is a fact.

"Including mention of AIPAC with other groups and institutions who have clout in Washington is just that--inclusion with others and NOT 'singling out' one of them. And what is being included in this case--by referring to AIPAC-- is an organized lobbying group, not an entire ethnic or religious category within the U.S. population."

And the above statement is literally true, as a snapshot. It's also true that not everyone who criticizes AIPAC and Israeli crimes is anti-semitic. It's also true that people who are anti-semitic (or who desire that the 9/11 Truth Movement be portrayed and perceived as anti-semitic) seize on AIPAC's influence and evidence of Israeli crimes as justification of their anti-semitism, and single them out.

The continuing cover up of 9/11, the propaganda for the OCT, and the efforts to discredit and marginalize the 9/11 Truth Movement have, among other techniques, used mis and disinfo to further those goals.

No planes, holograms, video fakery and space beams are some obvious examples which most people here probably agree are disinfo created with the intention of discrediting the 9/11 Truth Movement by associating 'truthers' with these claims. And some real people may sincerely believe these things and be promoting them in good faith- even though there's no hard evidence for them, and a lot of evidence against them.

In the same vein, a meme has been circulating in the 9/11 Truth Movement that '[the] Zionists' (i.e. the Jews) did 9/11. This meme feeds into the anti-semitic prejudices of some, in the same way the official myth about Islamic radical hijackers has feed into the anti-Muslim/Arab prejudices of many Americans. This explains why the '4000 Jews didn't show up for work' false claim got so much circulation, and why some focus almost exclusively on the evidence that Jews were involved, and ignore the evidence that Caucasian Americans and Saudi/Pakistani Intel also played a role.

These prejudices have been exploited to marginalize and discredit the 9/11 Truth Movement by portraying it as anti-semitic and irrational, thus perpetuating the cover up. That's what I'm objecting to. Those who are anti-semitic should realize that by selectively interpreting and promoting evidence, the chances for a full investigation- one that would actually address the role of certain Jews in the 9/11 crimes and cover up- are being reduced. Funny- that's probably exactly what certain Jews (and certain Caucasian 'Christian' Americans) want.

Divide and Conquer
http://911review.com/disinfo/divide.html

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

When all it really is, is trying to be responsible by promoting the best information possible.