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Howard Zinn confronted by 9/11 truth activist's in Montreal
After viewing the disappointing and disrespectful comments made by Howard Zinn on 09/10/08 in Colorado, responding to a request for help in spreading 9/11 awareness, Howard Zinn stated that he does not care about criminal accountability for the crimes of 09/11/01, because it is in the past. So we decided to attend his recent lecture at UQAM university to spread 9/11 truth, and welcome him to Montreal on behalf of the 9/11 victims, family members and the selfless 1st responders, for whom this attack will NEVER be in the past.
DFC
"He who controls the past, controls the future."
The CIA Act of 1949 was Orwell's vision made law in the US.
http://www.911blogger.com/node/18596
The National Security State is an edifice built of lies. When its occupants cease to believe them, it cannot stand.
"The road to fascism is paved with liberal bricks." - Mort Sahl
http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/11/17/head-shot/
“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson
Coward Zinn.
Coward Zinn.
So this is an otherwise great Historian who selectively doesn’t care about the past? That’s some serious Orwellian double-think.
Zinn Ignores U.S. History
Zinn knows perfectly well that after the Civil War, there were court martials for various reasons including for failure to do one's duty. After 9/11, there wasn't one court martial even for failure to protect the country - which points to U.S. complicity or worse. Zinn can't pretend he didn't know the proper military procedure that wasn't followed after 9/11 - so he's a phony.
Zinn waste a lot of words with his explanation...
it would be much simpler to say, "I'm a cowarldly fraud."
Or just change his name to
Or just change his name to "Coward Zinn", he's only got to drop the H.
I agree completely
These type of men are just hypocrites and cowards.
In the same class as Chomsky.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The CONSTITUTION is NOT going to "collapse" into pulverized dust no matter how much thermate/explosives or planes they throw at it
Good job...
I liked your statement about Zinn's standing as a historian, and his statement about 9/11 being in the past. You would think a historian would want to get an accurate account of history.
Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? Do we deserve to know how and why 9/11 happened?
Well, well, well, Dr. Zinn has made his "clarification"
Thank you so much Montreal 9/11 truth, merci beaucoup!
Hopefully the next person to question him will ask him if he is familiar with Peter Dale Scott's concept of the "deep state' and ask him how one confronts this deep state without investigating and exposing the events they manufacture to maintain the endless world war they use to control humanity.
I'm glad I never idolized Zinn the way I did Chomsky or I'd feel really ill about now.
I don't get it, do these "intellectuals" get an extra dose of fluoride or something?
Simple pathetic.
Dr. Zinn undoubtedly schmoozes with the Democratic elites and truly believes that the neocons are the real "bad guys", either that or he's a hell of a good actor.
I'm never paying full retail for any of his books, that's for sure.
When the people lead, the "leaders" will finally know where they belong (at the back of the parade with the brooms).
Edit: It occurs to me that we may be seeing the Obama era talking point on 9/11, "that was the past, the neocons are gone now, we have to look forward". (they better not try to pat me on the head or they'll get an earful!)
Thanks again Montreal, great job!
The truth shall set us free, but only if we have the courage to seek it.
Love is the only way forward, but never forget those who turned their back on their brothers and sisters when it really mattered. Forgive their weakness, but do not forget.
Yes, something is rotten with this rush to "forgive and forget"
"It occurs to me that we may be seeing the Obama era talking point on 9/11, 'that was the past, the neocons are gone now, we have to look forward'"
It is precisely because Americans were persuaded to "look forward" from JFK that 9/11 was possible.
"Once the neo-fascists became bold enough to slay the President on the street, they showed their hand. They showed how arrogant they had become. Now it's a question of symptom. That crime was a national symptom. If we can turn our back on that, we will pay a terrible price." - Mort Sahl
Don't fall for it again.
“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson
the audience
did you here their reactions??what a bunch of fucked up disgusting cunts.Only a few cheered the 911 questioners statement.
Clearly, the 9/11 truth movement's persistence is annoying
many unthinking "liberals" and that's a very good thing, imo.
It also demonstrates that we need to do a better job of educating and showing the relevance of 9/11 truth to the issues they care most about, war and the economy.
I think it was also the usual annoyance of someone using Q&A to make a very long point, which we've all experienced.
First we annoy you, then you let us educate you, then you join us, then we win.
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
I'm annoyed! I am really ANNOYED! count me in.
Yeah Yeah Yeah , Blah Blah Blah, So he doesn't think what really happened on 911 is the most important question we can ask? Well what is he saying, it's not in the top ten? It's not on the radar screen at all? Then what is the most important question we can be asking? Give me your top ten Sir: Me thinks ye is a coward. That's OK the world is full of cowards. But don't think you can get me to buy your books or your opinions and I suggest you stop touring, because we are not going away! And to many of us YES, What really happened on 911 is the most important question we can ask. Keep your post at the left gate soldier, lest you want to join the real civilians out here!
Zinn's disappointing recoil from truth
Someone should ask Zinn why he endorsed David Ray Griffin's books if he thinks the evidence 9-11 was an inside job doesn't matter. Has he changed his mind about this? If so, why? because his current position seems inconsistent with those endorsements.
Zinn accuses 9-11 Skeptics of wanting him and others to "drop everything" and make 9-11 Truth the only issue they work on. I have been active in the 9-11 Truth Movement for years, and also gone to marches against the war in Iraq, and known many others who work in the peace movement and 9-11 Truth movement. So I don't know who are these "fanatics" he is talking about, who only work on that one issue. The real fanatics are people like himself who reflexively refuse to talk about the problems with the official story, who suffer from "conspiracy phobia."
The more important question is, Why do people like Zinn NEVER talk about the huge amount of empirical evidence indicating that the official story of what happened cannot possibly be true? Why does he endorse books by stalwart researchers like Griffin and then heap contempt on those who read them, and, by implication, on Griffin himself? And it is contempt he is heaping on us, isn't it? To call us "fanatics" is tantamount to calling us "conspiracy theorists." We might expect such treatment from a corporate drone like Dan Rather or Brian Williams....but Howard Zinn?
investigating 911
Georges Santayana said: "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it." I would think an historian of Zinn's renown could not possibly disagree with Santayana on this point.
I also believe that it is the very purpose of 'history' to make sense of the past that futures may be 'better' by whatever standard.
UNLESS 911 is fully investigated and, as was the case at Nuremberg, the GUILTY ARE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE, nothing will have been learned. Failing or refusing to fully investigate 911 is not merely a guarantee that it will happen again, it is an INVITATION to would be tyrants.
Unless 911 is fully investigated, it will remain impossible to direct, co-ordinate or utilize the resources of the state in pursuit of better aims: JUSTICE and the rule of law. Unless those concepts are held inviolate, the more pragmatic aims of state --a viable economy and the maintenance of infrastructure --are simply meaningless.
I respectfully challenge Mr. Zinn to debate me on these points. In closing, I can think of no justification for delaying by a single day the complete investigation of this horrible crime against the people. It is no cliche that: 'Justice delayed IS justice denied".
well put
"it is the very purpose of 'history' to make sense of the past that futures may be 'better' by whatever standard"
Yes
“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson
Note Zinn's wording
"David Ray Griffin has done admirable and painstaking research in reviewing the mysteries surrounding the 9-11 attacks. It is the most persuasive argument I have seen for further investigation of the Bush administration's relationship to that historic and troubling event."
- Howard Zinn
"Bush administration's relationship". The wolf is gone. The "good guys" are back in power. You can relax now.
“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson
The audience
Apparently most in his audience are also satisfied with not knowing what happened on 9/11. No big issue who killed 3000 Americans and has given the basis for wars killing more than a million!
Many of those applauding
Many of those applauding people probably think the 911 commission report and popular mechanics fully answered all concerns.
Another Question.
We should ask him what he thinks of the Anthrax case and that unsolved crime. Is he satisfied with that as well. Or unconcerned about that as well.
I'm really starting to believe...
...that the bad guys are "getting to" certain people like Zinn, with either death threats, large sums of money, or whatever else. In my opinion, you don't go from endorsing a DRG book with a back-cover blurb, to this, unless you've been heavily pressured.
And indeed, the disgusting "debunkers" are claiming a victory:
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2008/11/well-well-howard-zinn-disap...
The Good Gatekeeping Seal of Approval
The simplest explanation for Zinn's backpedaling -- remember, he's old, with not much to lose -- is that he was never with us in the first place.
Like Chomsky, he's a CIA asset. But, much more than Chomsky, he works the grassroots left -- those outside the Left Branch Division of the Mockingbird Media, lacking its Good Gatekeeping Seal of Approval.
I expect it works something like this:
People who regularly write for or speak on behalf of Mockingbird's Left Division are usually kept on a fairly short leash, routinely briefed about what lines they may -- and often must -- transmit to the consumers of the Official Left Media. Chomsky is front and center of this group, and one of his central assignments at least since the JFK assassination has been to dissuade leftists from conspiracy theories that, held widely and deeply, would actually negatively impact the CIA and the power elites. (To enhance their credibility, Chomsky and his colleagues occasionally reveal a conspiracy when doing so would have no substantive political impact.)
But the CIA knows that there will always be those on the fringes of the left and right who push the boundaries beyond the dictates of the controlled media. So, as ongoing contingency resources, they have in place their Howard Zinns, Michael Parentis, and the like on hand.
Their job is to communicate in a more freewheeling manner, making friends and alliances wherever they may find them. They may even take positions seriously opposed to what the CIA etc. wants people to think -- all the better to discredit, demoralize, and otherwise undermine the real, independent threat to CIA power when push comes to shove.
It's like that expression (popularized in _The X-Files_, but long predating the show): "Hold your friends close, and your enemies closer."
I suspect Zinn had the nod -- perhaps was even encouraged -- to gently endorse the 9/11 truth movement early on, before it had many adherents. That way, it was hoped, his withdrawal of support at some strategically timed later point would help to seriously weaken the movement.
Indeed, Zinn's comments now may indicate that Zinn's secret bosses are getting very nervous, such that they're willing to sacrifice one of their last resources held in reserve.
Note too how, with the rapid rise of online-based grassroots networking in the last decade, how little difference it makes anymore that a Big Book writer like Zinn should stab his intended audience in the back.
excellent analyis as always McFrandy
Yep, these guys are bought and paid for. Not that its necessarily done willingly -- as pointed out elsewhere, the PTB have no compunctions about threatening wives, children, grand-children.
We should expect that some of our favorite heros will one day be threatened just this way. In this high-stakes game we're playing, you can''t trust anyone absolutely. You never know when they will be made an offer they couldn't refuse. David Ray Griffin, Richard Gage, Alex Jones -- these men are very brave. I hope the day never comes when we see them "retract" their support for 911 truth. If that happens, we will know somebody got to them.
Maybe, just maybe, the following comment is meant ironically:
So, Michael Parenti is a CIA asset? Who would have thought that, considering his long track record of attacking left gatekeepers, speaking against what he calls "conspiracyphobia on the left" and talking extensively about concrete conspiracies like the JFK assassination? Not to mention his many public acknowledgments of 9/11 truth and private admissions that "it could well have been an inside job."
If you ask me, the Agency should fire this guy, because he's really doing a poor job at "gatekeeping." Why is the taxpayers' money being wasted on someone who's clearly not up to his job? But you know what they say, the CIA moves in mysterious ways.
"We'll never know the truth about 9/11"
Not if we follow your lead Mr. Zinn, and don't bother to investigate!
Kudos to that second questioner who had the balls to stand there and ask despite a hostile audience. It takes courage to stand for what you know to be true despite a big crowd of people mocking you.
Remember, Jesus was mocked too.
Add Zinn to the long, sad, list of leftist gatekeepers like Naomi Wolf, Naomi Klein, Alexander Cockburn, Matt Rothschild, Robert Scheer, Arianna Huffington, Noam Chomsky, and on and on. Their passion for change is a mere speck compared to their interest in maintaining their current position and status.
Howard Zinn, you're a coward.
Even if you recoiled from the truth on account of death threats, you should have continued to risk your life. The good of the many outweighs the good of the one.
Kameelyun, you've hit upon the core of the issue
When I look at the long list of people who have been silenced with death threats, and then were killed anyway--or died anyway, as we all will--it seems that our current state of dismal affairs has come about only because each individual person valued their own individual life more than they do truth, justice, and the good of the entire planet.
I am here to say that my own individual life is NOT more important than all those things. They may eventually killl me for the stands I take, and it will have been worth it.
But hear it now: I will never, never commit suicide. No matter how persuasive any "suicide note" may be.
Zinn has two children, Myla and Jeff, and five grandchildren.
What would you do if your children and/or grandchildren were threatened?
I have two daughters and this is something I consider more often than I care to admit.
Yes, we're angry at Dr. Zinn for his duplicity and hypocrisy, but have some empathy for the position he may be in.
Life is not always as simple as it appears.
We have much to do, brothers and sisters, let's move on to more important work.
The truth shall set us free.
Love is the only way forward, and that includes loving ones adversaries.
(you don't have to like them, though)
Yup, I hear ya.
I'm speaking as someone who's single with no kids. It is indeed MUCH MUCH easier to be a political activist when you have this on your side, especially when the subject of the activism is 911 truth. Since I don't have kids I can only imagine what it must feel like to be in that position if indeed a threat did take place.
I would move them out of the country
And then speak the truth. The fate of humanity hangs in the balance.
I would make my initial speech to the largest possible audience and specifically say what and who were threatened. Then when I die, or they die, the gig is up.










Painful.
Well, I disagree, Mr. Zinn. Exposing the enablers, mechanisms and perpetrators of 9/11 is crucial. Promoting the investigations of independent research into the murder of JFK is valuable. This is real history, not the cover-up conducted by the Warren Commission and the 9/11 Commission.