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Eight-author paper (including 5 PhD's) pub'd in Journal of 9/11 Studies: Extremely High Temperatures during the WTC destruction

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A paper that will surely rattle a few cages was published today:

Extremely high temperatures during the World Trade Center destruction

Steven E. Jones1, Jeffrey Farrer2, Gregory S. Jenkins3, Frank Legge4, James Gourley, Kevin Ryan, Daniel Farnsworth, and Crockett Grabbe5.
1 S&J Scientific Co., Provo, Utah
2 Department of Physics and Astronomy, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah
3 Physics Department, University of Maryland at College Park, Maryland
4 Logical Systems Consulting, Perth, Western Australia
5 Department of Physics, University of Iowa, Iowa City, Iowa

A little background is in order. The paper was written several months ago with the decision to focus on the "temperature gap" between temperatures reached in the "official story" and temperatures required by the data. (No mention of "thermite" was given in the paper -- so that might have a better chance of publication in a mainstream journal. Showing the "official explanation" to be wrong seemed sufficient for this paper.)

The paper was then given to two independent Professors of Physics for peer-review. They made suggestions which were implemented. Both of these Professors then approved publication in a scientific journal (neither is a 9/11 activist).
Next the paper was sent to a mainstream journal for publication (and their own peer-review). However, this journal returned the paper with the comment "beyond the scope of this journal." No technical comments were given, whatsoever.

Meanwhile, two of the authors in the above list wrote a separate (and distinct) paper and submitted it to another mainstream technical journal, about seven months ago. This paper was peer-reviewed and accepted for publication about two months ago, but still has yet to appear in print. We hope it will be published within ten months of submitting the paper.
The process is glacially slow, it seems...

Given the level of activity with our 9/11 Investigation at this stage -- things are moving quickly now -- the authors decided to go ahead and submit the paper to the Journal of 9/11 Studies, where it was accepted and quickly published following final reviews.
See what you're missing -- Journal of Physics!

I should also note that three physics departments are listed in the affiliations: Brigham Young University, Univ. of Maryland at College Park, and Univ. of Iowa. (Some PhD's are sticking their necks out again... The paper, we believe, is solid.)

You will want to read this one! We hope it will generate interest and comment.
http://journalof911studies.com/articles/WTCHighTemp.pdf

MP3 Audio Clip - Richard Gage on Drive Time Radio

Wednesday October 24, 2007
Richard Gage AIA, Founder of Architects For 911 Truth, Talks Truth on Drive Time Radio About Vaporizing Steel Framed Buildings

* source = http://www.wtic.com/
-----------------------------------

More MP3 Audio Clips >

How many people would hear that?

That's great, Thanks!

Regards John

WE GOT TO TAKE THE POWER BACK!... rage against the machine!!

This is impressive ! (...and also clever in seeking publishment

This is an impressive work. Of course, I have always been impressed by the works of you guys, because ya'll put the pavement on the road to 911 Truth.

I am excited and look forward in seeing what happens with this. Great piece and a great plan.

Mucho gracias and appreciation from all of us Truthers out here for all the hard work and sacrifices you guys put into these type of endeavors.

~~~~~~~~~~
On a sidenote: Reed Elsevier Pub has been buying up so many journals that now libraries are having a difficult time being able to purchase as many journals as they used to. I wonder if Elsevier also influences publications indirectly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If one does not thoroughly LOOK, the TRUTH is not visible.

Way to go Dr.

Way to go Dr. Jones.......

This must be the paper you replied to me about some days ago.

Looks very good, thanks for your work.

Thanks for your tireless and

Thanks for your tireless and rigorous effort to find the truth.

Best regards,

Juan

--------------------------------------------
WTC 9-11-2001 was a Neocon-Zionist conspiracy,
but Jews DID NOT do 9-11 -
http://www.911blogger.com/node/8914#comment-174921
The WTC was destroyed by controlled demo-
http://www.ae911truth.org

Your work in this cause is

Your work in this cause is truly an inspiration. Thank
you for all you have done.

Thanks to all of the authors

Thanks to all of the authors for this excellent, detailed scientific work!

It is indicting evidence of the government's failure to make even an attempt at a responsible audit or inquiry into the 9/11 crime scene in New York.

Well...THEIR OCT JUST WENT UP IN FLAMES!

Thanks again, men.
God bless.

AND YOU SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH
AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

One day these men will

One day these men will recieve great aclaim for saving the world from itself!

They bring light where darkness rules for they are heros without peer and all they are laking is review and publication.

We are close to a break through and my friends "the game is a foot"!

Kind regards John

WE GOT TO TAKE THE POWE BACK!...

Checkmate, gentlemen!

Thank you for your diligent pursuit of justice.

“On the altar of God, I swear eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."--Thomas Jefferson

Which journal?

Impressive!
Look, this is what we need to convince the world.

By the way, at which "Journal of Physics" was the paper accepted?
Is it IOP's Journal of Physics D?
I do not see the paper in the list of accepted papers of this journal yet.
Hopefully they will print your paper soon.

Having used SEM and

Having used SEM and subsequently XEDS for elemental analysis in my own research...it is certainly a definitive method of identification...this is great stuff!!

Come on world....please, please, please see this work and understand what it means!!!

Rick, seeing you have used

Rick, seeing you have used SEM,
and EDS equipment, do you still have access to these?

Thanks for your support (everyone!).

A hopeful yes.....

Dr. Jones, I am no longer in academics full time, but have kept in touch with the lab, and would like to think I could use the equipment. Believe me, anything I might could do to help you...just ask! Rickysa@aol.com

Also, a personal thank you for all you've done.

Rick

Thanks Dr. Jones...

for this great news ,and your continued efforts !

Glee ...

"This paper was peer-reviewed and accepted for publication about two months ago, but still has yet to appear in print. We hope it will be published within ten months of submitting the paper."

OMG. Waiting with bated breath. I can't imagine what'll happen if and when it gets published. Thank you for all your fabulous work! =o)

USGS

That FOIA request which produced the Mo sperule data was brilliant. Perhaps the fasteners were targeted. This paper is a milestone, congratulations.

Congratulations and some feedback

Excellent work.

If I understood correctly, the above paper ("Extremely high temperatures during the World Trade Center destruction") has been accepted for publication in a scientific journal. In the meantime, it has been published in the Journal of 911 Studies (which, of course, is also a scientific journal).

In addition, another, different paper written by two of the authors will be published in a mainstream technical journal, hopefully within a few months.

Is this right?

If so, this is great! I hope there won't be any setbacks. That in mind, it may be best not to advertise the names of the journals until everything is certain.

When a paper such as this is written, I believe it should be offered to as many relevant journals as possible -- at once.

A few comments (some of them cosmetic) on the above article:

I find the argument highly persuasive and easy to follow (at least as easy as it can be for a layman).

I would add an empty line before each indented quotation. There is already an empty line after indented quotations.

"Understanding the mechanisms that led to the destruction of the World Trade Center will
enable scientists and engineers to provide a safer environment for people using similar buildings and benefit
firefighters who risk their lives trying to save others."

This well-intentioned sentence sounds superfluous, as I suspect that no building can be designed to survive a controlled demolition.

A few clarifications

Thank you for the constructive comments. The "9/11 fact-finding team" is pressing forward..

A few clarifications are in order.

The "Temperature gap" paper pub'd yesterday in J911S was submitted JPhysD, and returned as "beyond the scope of this journal" (JPhysD) with no technical objections or comments.

Vesa writes, "When a paper such as this is written, I believe it should be offered to as many relevant journals as possible -- at once."
No, this would be contrary to scientific protocol and ethics. A paper submitted to one journal cannot be submitted to another simultaneously. Thus you see, a journal can delay publication of a paper for many months if they want to. (Of course, the authors can withdraw the submission and try in another journal -- another time delay.)

The "distinct" paper I mentioned has been accepted for publication, but has been in the "process" already for roughly seven months. We don't know when they will publish. (This is NOT JPhysD, but it is perhaps wise not to disclose the journal until it actually appears...)

We are encouraging the best motives for studying 9/11 facts when we write, ""Understanding the mechanisms that led to the destruction of the World Trade Center will enable scientists and engineers to provide a safer environment for people using similar buildings and benefit
firefighters who risk their lives trying to save others."

This was written when 9/11 fact-seekers were being branded as extremists/terrorists and we wish to set that fallacious and harmful charge aside.

Great work

In my field there are online journals which are more likely to accept new or contradictory findings, but are gaining in reputation as more publish there --

http://www.plosone.org/home.action

Are you considering these venues -- if there are any applicable for this work -- upon rejection?

Terrific work!

Having distributed your UVSC DVD to the UW-Madison physics and engineering departments with no visible results, I may try again with this excellent paper. Congratulations!

Copy to USGS also

Perhaps someone should send copies of it to the US Geological Survey as well.

And to NIST?

...

Yes, to NIST. Does anyone

Yes, to NIST. Does anyone have the individual emails of the panel members?

http://wtc.nist.gov/pi/

Here may be some

We used these addresses when we sent the "Finnish researchers' questions and observations for NIST concerning WTC 7 investigation" to NIST (replace " at " by @ ):

wtc at nist.gov
michael.newman at nist.gov
NCSTAC at nist.gov
sivaraj.shyam-sunder at nist.gov

Thanks, Kevin, and yes, I

Thanks, Kevin, and yes, I will send copies to NIST and USGS requesting comment.

Need Help With The Following Points....

Mr. Jones and Company: I've been defending your work as well as 9/11 Truth on JREF for quite some time. They have brought up some points I would like you to address so I can defend the work with full guns blazing. If we can address these, I plan on having a construction engineer from Purdue as well as Physics teacher examine the work as well to get their thoughts.
I'm not a scientist by any stretch of the imagination, but I was able to counter the sample claims. The others I can't really address from a layman's perspective.

1. In section 2 (Methods), the authors fail to specify whether the detector on the SEM is a silicon lithium Si(Li) detector or a silicon drift detector (SDD). This is actually quite important since the SDD has a high instance of coincidence peaking which can cause misidentification of certain elements. Looking at the spectra, it appears to be a Si(Li) detector, but that's an educated guess at best.
2. On page 2, in the section "Results", the author states, "The spherules found in the WTC dust were predominately iron-rich" without supporting his contention with a statistical analysis of the iron content of the particles available for analysis. He might mean that the particles he analyzed were iron rich, but that indicates heavy operator bias in selecting particles.
3. The author makes no mention of the particle correction routine used to determine the composition of the particles. He further makes no indication of standards collected, or of calibrations run to determine what the relative deviation of a standardless particle quant would be. This is an extremely important point. Jones is reporting "approximate" particle compositions to one decimal place, indicating that his analysis has a deviation of +/- 0.1%. It, of course, would be helpful if Jones were to actually report the actual two standard normal deviation, but I think we've already established that such considerations are for real research papers, not Jones's dreck. Anyway, J.T. Armstrong in Electron Probe Quantitation (pp 296) reported 2 standard deviations for particle analysis using conventional ZAF corrections as +/- 55% relative. In the case of the iron composition given as a caption in Figure 3, it should read Fe = 10.7% +/- 5.9%.
4. The caption under figure 4 states "The Fe-S-Al-O signature is striking, nothing like the signature of structural steel." This is a particularly appalling statement intending to somehow imply that all of the iron rich spherules from his "dust sample" had to be from structural steel or gypsum. Similar to what Dr. Greening has already pointed out, we can't simply assume that the only source of iron in the WTC dust was from steel. Nor can we assume that the temperatures necessary to vaporize the individual constituent elements of those spheres is what caused them to form in the first place. I mentioned rice husk ash in an earlier post which has an abundance of iron rich particles despite rather low burning temperatures. Crazy Chainsaw has also provided information regarding the vaporization of molybdenum at temperatures far below those required to vaporize the pure constituent metal.
5. The caption under figure 5 states "The O/Fe ratio of 1.5 suggests that Fe2O3 is present, iron (III) oxide." Regarding my analysis in point 3, Jones can not state with any certainty that the O/Fe ratio is actually 1.5. Furthermore, Jones seems completely unaware that hydrogen atoms are not fluoresced during XEDS. This means that Jones cannot, with any certainty, determine if the particles are Fe2O3 or Fe(OH)2,3,4 or any variant thereof.
6. On page 4, Jones reports the following, "No explanation for the presence of these iron-rich and silicate spheres (which imply very high temperatures along with droplet formation) is given in the published USGS reports." This is further evidence that he simply rejects the possibility that fires caused this ash sample. The USGS report's purpose was not to comment on the source of the iron rich spheres. In fact, I can't imagine why any researcher, when presented with a sample of ash from a building fire would think twice about finding iron.
7. On page 4, Jones reports, "A WTC dust sample acquired at 130 Liberty Street shows a “mean of composition” of “Fe spheres” of 5.87% which is very high compared with “Fe spheres” found in ordinary building dust of only 0.04% [1]." Ladies and Gentlemen, I submit to you that Jones has decided to compare apples to oranges. He has chosen to compare the composition of ordinary building dust to ash from a building fire. And he thinks it's strange. Lunacy.
8. The next several pages operate on the following argument: Because the temperature required to vaporize a pure metal is really high, these spheres cannot form in normal office fires. Of course, this argument is completely useless unless you compare the results to a similar office fire or across a series of office fires. Jones is expecting the scientific community at large to believe that such elements are not found in office fires because he says so.
9. Finally, the appendix notes where Jones got his samples from. I'm sorry, but I honestly can't understand how any legitimate scientist could possibly believe the validity of Jones's source. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Jones's "WTC Dust" samples are from the actual World Trade Center. Suffice it to say that such forensic handling would certainly not be admissible in any court.

"I would imagine that if you took the top expert in that type of work and gave him the assignment of bringing these buildings down with explosives, I would bet that he could do it." -1993-John Skilling, Head Structural Engineer WTC Towers

Some of these are good questions

Of course, the ad hominems are not scientific.

However, I would like to address these when I have time -- BBC interviews all day tomorrow, followed by travel. Look for responses next Monday when I'm back, hopefully.

Also, pls give the URL for the JREF discussion, I may take a look next week...

Here is the link you

Here is the link you requested.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=104926

Just finished with BBC, a few answers

1. Si(Li) detector
2. The question leaves out the last part of the very SENTENCE quoted. to generate a straw man. Quote the rest, and then re-phrase the question fairly.
3. We have run a series of measurements on Fe2O3, to determine the accuracy of the EDAX system. +/- 55% is totally exaggerated and incorrect for this system, nor can I see any justification for using 2 standard deviations -- why does the author use 2 sigma instead of one? We have the data, a short paper to follow will provide detailed analysis.
4. What? We did not imply any such thing. (Straw man.)
5. See 3 above. The ratio of 1.5 is a reasonable indicator based on those measurements -- we used the term "suggests".
6. What?
"On page 4, Jones reports the following, "No explanation for the presence of these iron-rich and silicate spheres (which imply very high temperatures along with droplet formation) is given in the published USGS reports." This is further evidence that he simply rejects the possibility that fires caused this ash sample."
Logic is incomplete, please explain. USGS giving no explanation for these spheres does not mean that I reject the possibility that fires caused this ash sample.
7. This is not apples and oranges or "lunacy" to compare the iron-rich sphere content in WTC dust with that in ordinary dust, or explain why you state this. Ad hominem ("lunacy") and faulty logic unless explained.
More later, sorry time is limited and I have another appointment. You may wish also to query a co-author, as there are EIGHT authors, not just one.

Further replies

8. "The next several pages operate on the following argument: Because the temperature required to vaporize a pure metal is really high, these spheres cannot form in normal office fires. "
Show me where in the paper we say anything about VAPORIZATION of metals to form spheres. It's not there! This guy has not read the paper carefully evidently -- or just likes to invent straw-man arguments.

9. "There is absolutely no reason to believe that Jones's "WTC Dust" samples are from the actual World Trade Center."

Why does the author say this? Pls explain why you don't think the dust samples are from the WTC. And how about the WTC dust samples discussed by USGS and RJ Lee? Why do these various samples show iron-rich spheres, if there is something wrong with our samples? Why the agreement as to findings in the various samples?

(Pls provide the URL for the JREF discussion, would you?)